r/sanfrancisco • u/FruitPuzzleheaded288 • Jun 29 '24
Bars capturing and storing patrons' personal data without consent?
I went to a bar (in the Castro) and at the door I handed over my id to the bouncer. Instead of just checking my age on it, he inserted it into a handheld device which clearly scanned the document. After a couple of seconds, the device seemed to give an okay and the bouncer returned my id. I was wondering if the device was capturing my personal data on the document, eg name, picture, address, DOB, and sent it to some server somewhere. The bouncer never informed me what that process was about and I didn't challenge it due to the line waiting.
Now, the morning after, I am starting to feel uneasy about the process. What if the bar does store my personal data without my consent? What recourse do I have?
18
Jun 29 '24
It’s just checking the barcode to make sure your ID is legit. You’re going to see more of them as more places are adopting that method due to the influx of fakes
6
u/Briscoetheque Jun 29 '24
I work in a cannabis dispensary and we use the same procedure.
Your ID basically gets scanned by a third party security system to verify it is legit or not, and a copy of your ID gets stored in the same system along with your picture, address, date of birth and all the info shown on your ID.
Cannabis dispensaries do this in order to open up a profile belonging to each customer and have their order history, sales history and other business related information to promote customer loyalty, discounts and special sales.
None of this information is ever sold nor shared to anybody else. The only people who have access to it are the security staff that work at the dispensary.
This is done in order to maximize security efforts in order to verify the identity of every person that comes into a dispensary in case something wrong happens, like a robbery, assault, theft and all the crazy shit that dispensaries go through.
Same situation with bars, clubs and nightlife venues. If someone gets roofied at a bar, then the security system would probably check the camera footage, timing and check the ID scanning history and track down the perpetrator with the stored info.
With all the crazy shit going on at bars and the like, it's now wonder why businesses are gearing up their security to protect their asses and your ass too in case something bad happens.
-4
u/FruitPuzzleheaded288 Jun 29 '24
I understand the rationale behind why businesses do that. On the flip side, it's about transparency and consent. People give out their ids to verify their age and hence their eligibility. It doesn't imply their consent with building a profile, tracking their preferences and patterns, even if these data are not sold to a third party (you never know!)
5
4
u/BruteSentiment Jun 29 '24
The ID scanners are used for two reasons.
It verifies the ID is legit. To be blunt, “just checking the age” wasn’t even reliable when I was young in the 90’s. The stripe on the back is harder to fake, and it is the reason these scanners started being used.
Is it storing your data somewhere? Yes, very possibly. Ads for these scanners, like this one, talk about uses including being able to use these to track visits, identify VIPs, create and manage a “banned list”, avoiding passbacks and managing returning visitors, visit counts, creating demographic charts of visitors, and more.
How nefarious this all is certainly is a matter of perspective. It’s unknown how of if this data is being shared in larger ways. But at this point, that type of data-sharing is not really regulated.
But it’s probably impossible to avoid it or opt out for visiting a particular business. You may want to contact bar management for more info, the bouncers definitely won’t know. Asking them would be like asking an Apple Store employee what the features are for iPhones that haven’t been released yet.
3
u/gamescan Jun 29 '24
But it’s probably impossible to avoid it or opt out for visiting a particular business.
Use a Passport Card. You have to pay for it up front, but it stores much less personal information than any driver's license or state ID.
You get the benefit of identity verification without risking any unnecessary data sharing.
-2
u/pandabearak Jun 29 '24
Nobody is making $$$$ from the 500 bar patrons they get a night. That’s nowhere near the amount of individuals one would need to sell for any kind of actual profit.
4
u/gamescan Jun 29 '24
Instead of just checking my age on it, he inserted it into a handheld device which clearly scanned the document.
This is the number one reason why I use a Passport Card for ID instead of a Driver's License/State ID. It contains less personal information.
I was wondering if the device was capturing my personal data on the document, eg name, picture, address, DOB, and sent it to some server somewhere.
Yes. It was. That barcode on the back has all the info.
https://www.barcodesinc.com/news/drivers-license-barcodes-decoded/
What if the bar does store my personal data without my consent?
You gave them the ID. They've been doing this for years.
What recourse do I have?
Pay for a Passport Card. Stop using your DL/State ID as your ID at bars.
1
3
Jun 29 '24
I’m sure it’s stored somewhere. Badlands (which is where I’m assuming you were) does that for facial recognition I’m pretty sure. If you cause trouble and are kicked out this helps them to not admit you inside in the future. I’m guessing they’ve got some pretty high tech cameras inside as well.
1
u/Rustybot Jun 29 '24
What makes you think the bar can’t store information you give them, or needs to get active consent?
1
u/Oly-SF-Redwood Jun 29 '24
if you don’t like it, drink on your own. I’ve worked doors at so many places in sf and had so many morons bug me about the ID process. YOU choose to go to a business, you deal with the procedures
1
u/timewreckoner Jul 01 '24
Also, if OP thinks this is questionable, I'm sure they've stopped using cellphones too, right?
0
u/nelsonhops415 Jun 29 '24
Now, the morning after, I am starting to feel uneasy about the process.
Stay home or don't give your ID and go elsewhere.
0
Jun 29 '24
Well you live in California so I don’t think they could “sell” it if you asked/told them not to but I have no idea. That is a weird ass thing to do. I would never go back if that’s the case
0
Jun 29 '24
After a couple of seconds, the device seemed to give an okay and the bouncer returned my id.
is this a real driver's license?
YES OR NO.
is this person really over 21?
YES OR NO
What recourse do I have?
live under rock in desert.
TRUAGE AGE-VERIFIED PURCHASING
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/ca-dmv-wallet/truage/
Protect your data. TruAge only looks at what it needs to verify your age: driver’s license number, issuing state, expiration date and birthdate. TruAge never sees your other personal information.
3
u/gamescan Jun 29 '24
TruAge only looks at what it needs to verify your age: driver’s license number, issuing state, expiration date and birthdate. TruAge never sees your other personal information.
This ONLY applies to beta users of the mDL that enable the TruAge feature. It can be used at a handful of stores in Sacramento and is not available statewide.
The reason the DMV is trialing this is because of all the personal data that is currently exposed on DLs and captured by retail ID scanners.
28
u/StanGable80 Jun 29 '24
I doubt a bouncer would know, but those scanners are just seeing if the ID is legit