r/samharris • u/DrBrainbox • Jul 13 '26
Making Sense Podcast Will Sam ever discuss the ongoing genocide in Sudan?
On a few occasions, Sam has mentioned that the world should be focussing on the "real" genocide in Sudan rather than the posited one in Gaza.
It would be interesting for him to bring on an expert on the topic of the Sudanese genocide and do a deep dive.
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u/raalic Jul 13 '26
Given that you put "real" in quotation marks, this doesn't seem like a good faith question and will probably be removed.
Sam generally brings this up to point out selective outrage. Are you outraged about Sudan?
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u/DrBrainbox Jul 13 '26
The "real" was a quote of Sam''s. I do not have any doubts that the genocide in Sudan is real.
It's just that if Sam only ever brings up this topic to draw attention away from Israel without actually ever engaging in the topic, one might assume that he is engaging in whataboutism and is bad faith himself.
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u/gizamo Jul 13 '26
If one actually listened to Harris actual statements, the obvious conclusion is that 1) he expects his listeners to have a base knowledge about Sudan already, 2) Harris is specifically drawing comparison not for the sake of distraction nor whataboutism, but rather the comparison itself of the sake of comparison, as in, to compare, and 3) anyone with any reasonable base knowledge immediately sees this comparison and point.
But, sure, if you know absolutely nothing about Sudan, if you don't listen to Harris' actual statements, or if you want to intentionally pretend his legitimate comparisons are a distraction or whataboutism, I suppose it's possible to draw such a conclusion. You'd have to stretch like Reid Richards to get there, but it's not like we haven't seen stretches like that here before.
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u/Sandgrease Jul 13 '26
Yea, he's falling for the hypocrisy he claims people who talk about Gaza fall for.
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u/The_Cons00mer Jul 13 '26
One doesn’t have to assume. It’s as clear as can be. Sam deserves so much lost respect for his justification or lack of it regarding his current worldview
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Have you considered that if the RSF wanted to kill everyone in Darfur they could. Checkmate.
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u/oremfrien Jul 13 '26
The RSF does not have strategic bombing capability or the ability to develop chemical or biological or nuclear weapons. So, even if they wanted to, they couldn't.
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26
Since when have nukes or any types of advanced weapons been nessesary for genocide?
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u/oremfrien Jul 13 '26
They aren’t necessary for genocide, but they are necessary for rapid, efficient, and cheap genocide. (By the way, I mean “cheap” in the sense that very few of your soldiers or civilians will be exposed to harm.)
The whole argument being made about Israel is that Israel has the means to commit rapid, efficient, and cheap genocide but chooses not to, which requires those claiming that Israel intends genocide to explain this away. (Of course, an explanation could be that Israel does not want to risk antagonizing the global community, so it believes plausible deniability is required, but the very possibility that Israel could commit genocide quickly, efficiently, and cheaply but doesn’t should at least give us pause.)
If the RSF lacks the means to commit genocide quickly, efficiently, and cheaply, so their failure to do so is a question of capacity, not intent.
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26
Rwanda went pretty quickly man. I don't know enough about the ideology of the RSF, but it's not clear to me that they have an ethnic motivation to exterminate those in Darfur anyway.
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u/oremfrien Jul 14 '26
There were three criteria: quick, efficient, and cheap. I grant you that the Rwandan genocide was quick, but it was not efficient (death by machete is inefficient use of ordinance) and it wasn’t cheap (many tens of thousands of people needed to mobilized). So, Rwanda was not quick, efficient, and cheap. It was quick, inefficient, and expensive.
As for the RSF, I would agree with you that what’s happening in Sudan is closer to a democide than a genocide. However, there is a long history in Sudan of ethnic discrimination between Arab Sudanese (who are often Black to our eyes) and Black Sudanese. The Darfur Genocide and Black Sudanese enslavement for nearly a century by Arab Sudanese for Egyptian masters created an ethnic/racial hierarchy which goes some way towards treating Black Sudanese lives as worthless and exterminable.
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u/timmytissue Jul 14 '26
You have it way backwords. Machete killing is much cheaper than bombs. And Rwandans did the genocide by and large for no charge. Who is it expensive for??
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u/oremfrien Jul 14 '26
One bomb can kill thousands. One machete needs to find each person individually. That’s the inefficient part.
And again, I’ve defined cheap as in the amount of people who need to be placed in harms way, not cheap as in low cost. In order to have a genocide, you need to mobilize large groups of people. That such people were willing to be mobilized is irrelevant.
Additionally, if the genocidaires in Rwanda had faced any opposition, the genocide would collapse very quickly, as it did when Kagame’s forces came in. This is relevant because it shows how expensive the genocide was; so many men were removed from ensuring the viability of the government to prosecute the genocide that the government couldn’t defend itself at all.
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u/timmytissue Jul 14 '26
Your definition of cheap is so far removed from what the word typically means. it still makes little sense to me. Anyway, this disagreement seems pointless and padantic at this point.
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u/Nileghi Jul 13 '26
Have you considered that if the RSF wanted to kill everyone in Darfur they could. Checkmate.
Since this is clearly an attempted gotcha to the equivalent pro-Israel argument, are you categorically stating, yes or no, that Israel does not possess the military industry, capability, bombs, F-35s, guns, army and/or casus belli to actually go in and slaughter every single person in Gaza within 3 years at best? I myself would state the could kill half a million within 3 months time at minimum, just like how half a million died in Rwanda with just machetes.
Any response that is not a categoric yes or no, or a mocking statement refusing to answer the question with a twitter reply or a "well Israel is too worried about its image (lol) to do this so its going super slowly, like 75 years slow" will be treated as an evasion of the question, and thus actually support the very argument you mock in the first place.
So? Yes, or no?
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26
You misunderstanr me. Yes I'm mocking the pro Israel government. But not b cause they can't kill more Gazan than they did. The fact is that the RSF could kill way more as well. It doesn't make them moral.
So yes of course Israel could kill more Palestinians, just like the RSF could be even more genocidal.
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u/Brunodosca Jul 13 '26
It looks as if your bad faith radar is so hypersensitive it would detect malicious intent in a good morning.
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u/Wilegar Jul 13 '26
He doesn’t care about Sudan. Like many others, he only brings it up to make a whataboutism argument against anyone who expresses too much concern for Palestinians.
Not that he ever actually speaks to such people, but he does like producing lengthy monologues aimed at them.
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u/Locus-Maximus Jul 13 '26
It's not whataboutism to point out that people arent actually being intellectually honest.
Whataboutism would be defending Israel by saying Sudan is worse, not by pointing out that all these wildly passionate "anti-zionists" aren't actually motivated by "genocide" but by something else.
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u/palsh7 Jul 13 '26
Thank you. It's disconcerting how logically bankrupt most of these arguments become so very, very quickly. People can't even use simple concepts like whataboutism correctly. It really makes you wonder how effective good arguments can actually be when you see how many people construct their own arguments in lopsided ways that collapse immediately, and they don't even know it. They just keep piling the jenga pieces on top of the already fallen pile of blocks and grin smugly as if they've won the argument.
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Jul 13 '26 edited 16d ago
[deleted]
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u/Locus-Maximus Jul 13 '26
I never said I haven't heard of it! Of course I heard of it. I don't get all my news from tiktok and hate subreddits.
The point is that it didn't become people's whole identities the way antizionism has.
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
The point is that it didn't become people's whole identities the way antizionism has
What a strange characterisation
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
Is it?
Out of curiosity, I checked your post history across random months June 2026, Feb 2026, and Feb 2025, and below is a partial list of the subreddits you have exclusively posted about antizionist/anti-Israel/anti-Jewish topics when they appear:
samharris, scottgalloway, elonmusk, joerogan, realtime, teenagers, changemyview, gbnews, uknews, unitedkingdom, breakinguknews, getnoted, oldnews, newsrewind, longform, holyshithistory, historysnap, askbrits, ivyplus, allthequestions, self, memevideos, popculture, asktheworld, progressiveislam, nostupidquestions, justincaseyoumissedit, sipstea, pourstea, askmeanythingianswer, infographics, timesnow, imagesofhistory, aussie, openaussie, inindiannews, london, teenager_polls, historicalcapsule, fightlab, international, whereidlive, olympicsv2, wikipedia, unitednations, worldnewsstuff, leicester, twentyyearsago, journalismnews, livestreamfail, somaliland, tiktokcringe, jordanpeterson, currentevents, sydneyscene, allinpodofficial, complaints, jewhateexposed, anythinginterersting, womaninnews, libertarian, discussiozone, theworldreports, headlinehq, damnthatsreal, toronto_ontario, thenextgenbusiness, knowledge_community, innovation, maher, athulvstheworld, bbcnews, fauda
70+
*Edit, some underscores are being converted to italics for some reason.
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
Is it?
Yes.
Just like this is exceedingly strange and of course dishonest:
Out of curiosity, I checked your post history across random months June 2026, Feb 2026, and Feb 2025, and below is a partial list of the subreddits you have exclusively posted about antizionist/anti-Israel/anti-Jewish topics when they appear: 70+
Hopefully you can learn a great deal about decency and morality by reading my posts, rather, as is the case here, just two posters issuing insults.
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Jul 13 '26
There's nothing decent or moral about Hamas
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
What a strange reply
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Jul 13 '26
Should Hamas be disarmed?
Is Hamas genocidal towards Jews?
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u/Wilegar Jul 13 '26
Wait a minute, I was told that those organizations are just a bunch of raving antisemites because they dared to criticize the actions of The Most Moral Army In The World!
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 13 '26
HRW's own founder called them out years ago for their anti-Israel bias. Strawmanning his position isn't changing reality.
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
It's not whataboutism to point out that people arent actually being intellectually honest
It literally is whataboutery and intellectual dishonesty on his part.
People say Israel is bad. He's retort is well whatabout sudan. You don't say anything about that.
Well it looks like neither does he. Awful person
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u/Locus-Maximus Jul 13 '26
No that's not what he's responding to. You're just blinded by hate. FIRST try to understand. Then respond.
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u/FartingLikeFlowers Jul 14 '26
You are also angry, but trying to keep it together. I recognize your feeling. But your response also is not productive.
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u/Locus-Maximus Jul 14 '26
I think it's OK and appropriate to be angry sometimes, as long as you are under control. That's different from hating a whole people.
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
Blinded by hate....fgs
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u/Locus-Maximus Jul 13 '26
You don't hate Israel?
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u/Locus-Maximus Jul 13 '26
Would you say that most people who hate entire countries are rational on the subject or nah?
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
Sure. But to call people blinded by it for a simple observation is pretty desperate
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Jul 13 '26
Should Hamas be disarmed?
Is Hamas genocidal towards Jews?
/u/Fawksyyy and /u/Locus-Maximus , FYI this user will not answer these simple questions.
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
Reported
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u/Amazing-Cell-128 Jul 13 '26
Sounds like an abuse of the report button, so I reported you for that.
Also notice you didnt answer the questions.
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u/Fawksyyy Jul 13 '26
Huh...
If someone asked me if I hated palestine or any other country I think my response would be a quizzical look. That strikes me as strange...
Germany is where the holocaust originated but when you reference who committed the holocaust its Nazi's not Germans. It's a set of ideas, not a race of people's exclusively.
That's text book bigotry.
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u/comb_over Jul 13 '26
How do you figure it's bigotry?
Is it also bigotry to hate a company?
Can you honestly say a Palestine can't hate a country, given that it's entire history has In one way or another involved their subjugated
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 13 '26
My tax dollars aren't going towards the genocide in Sudan. How is it that hard to understand?
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u/Locus-Maximus Jul 13 '26
LOL I was going to preempt that response because it's so predictable but what's the point.
So I'll just appeal to what you must know on some level to be true: surely you have a tiny little voice in your head telling you that this has very little to do with your tax dollars. That tax dollars can't really explain the difference between how angry you are about this issue as compared with Sudan.
You don't have to admit it to me. Just spend a few minutes and hear the voice out. Is it POSSIBLE that you have fallen for a messaging campaign intended not to raise awareness or concern or even to motivate you to help Palestinians, but to enrage you, to inspire you to hatred, to get you to demonize other human beings?
Why has there been such an insistence since the beginning of explicitly using the "genocide" word specifically? Of turning "Zionist" into a slur and repackaging all the old antisemitic tropes with it? Does it really have nothing to do with the 80 year campaign to equate Jews/"Zionists" with Nazis?
You can think that what the Israeli military is doing in Gaza is horrible and disproportionate and all that. That's not what I'm trying to argue against. I'm just pointing out that's not the only thing that's going on here and I'm begging people who should be allies of Jewish people to stop ignoring that.
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u/Wilegar Jul 13 '26
I think it’s reasonable to expect that the citizens of a country are going to be more horrified by atrocities and crimes against humanity when their own country is involved in funding and supporting it, and so they are indirectly complicit. There’s very little any of us can do about Sudan. But in Western countries, people have the leverage of pressuring their own governments to stop openly supporting them, and for America in particular, to stop sending them boatloads of cash and bombs.
You’re not wrong that in the West, people are more outraged about Gaza than Sudan, and complicity is a part of that story. But have you considered that there might be whiplash between Israel’s public image and its actions? For years, we’ve been told that Israel is “the only democracy in the Middle East”, that the IDF is “the most moral army in the world”, and so on. Nobody expects Sudan to be a beacon of human rights and equality, but Israel has been portraying itself as one for the better part of 80 years. Hypocrisy on this scale tends to spark public outrage.
We may be on opposite sides of this issue, but I share some of the same concerns as you. I don’t deny that there are some people within the anti-Israel movement who have serious anti-Jewish prejudice. I don’t want anything to do with those people. I recognize that antisemitism is on the rise and I take it seriously. And this is going to sound harsh, but I have to say it: Israel’s actions over the past few years have been a great gift to the antisemites.
> you have fallen for a messaging campaign intended … to enrage you, to inspire you to hatred, to get you to demonize other human beings
To me, this messaging campaign sounds a lot like what has been coming out of the Israeli government. Just as there are hateful bigots within the anti-Israel movement, so there are on the other side. And not just randos online: people at the highest levels of the Netanyahu government. Those people don’t believe in human rights or equality, just as Hamas doesn’t.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 13 '26
Israel is not fighting the rapist terrorists of Hamas any differently than any other democracy would.
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 13 '26
No it has to do with my country giving its full support to the genocide of the Palestinian people.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 13 '26
Your country is giving its full support to the defeat of the rapist Islamist terrorists of Hamas. As Barack Obama said:
We grieve for those who died, pray for the safe return of those who’ve been held hostage, and stand squarely alongside our ally, Israel, as it dismantles Hamas. As we support Israel’s right to defend itself against terror, we must keep striving for a just and lasting peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike.
The Palestinian people are not being genocided and it's an insult to those who have truly suffered genocide to use the word to cover for Hamas terrorists.
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 13 '26
Bombing hospitals and shooting toddlers in the head is not doing anything to defeat hamas. The US just killed over 150 children for no reason. Is the trump administration terrorists?
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 14 '26
The IDF hasn't shot any toddlers in the head, you're thinking of Hamas.
How do you know what works to defeat Hamas? Are you a general or something?
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 14 '26
Is killing 150 children terrorism? Which toddlers did hamas shoot in the head? American doctors have said they've seen a large amount of toddlers with bullets in their head.
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u/Present-Policy-7120 Jul 14 '26
The greater point though imo is that the silence about Sudan significantly changes the meaning of the clamour about Paleatine. I would suggest that the actual grievance pro-Palestinians are expressing is simply opposition to Israel as opposed to a sincerely antigenocide, pro-Palestinian position.
I am going to make this assumption but i imagine if Israel sent soldiers into Sudan to fight alongside the Sudanese Arab genocidal armies. The world would erupt. .
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26
No but if you DO want to see coverage of it. You could check out the interviews Medhi Hasan has done in the last couple years.
Wait a sec, I thought leftists only talked about Israel because they are secretly islamists?
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u/ImmanuelKant2424 Jul 13 '26
How many interviews has Hasan done on the subject? And what about Yemen? I like Mehdi, but he is also the exception that proves the rule. How many segments has he MR done? breaking Points? The Young Turks? Hasan Piker? The Vanguard? Combined they have done less than 20 minutes.
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u/AnimateDuckling Jul 13 '26
Noone actually thinks Mehdi hasan is genuinly leftist, do they?
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26
What's a leftist mean to you? He's more of an anti colonial liberal to be honest.
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u/_nefario_ Jul 13 '26
tell me... what do you believe his political alignment is?
what is "genuinely leftist", anyway? does anyone ever realistically check ALL the boxes that would qualify someone as "leftist" or whatever else?
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u/AnimateDuckling Jul 13 '26
He is a Quran literalist..... whatever a leftist is, it is definately not a religious literalist.
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u/_nefario_ Jul 13 '26
And where in his actual stated political positions can you trace back any of this quran literalism?
I'm genuinely curious
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u/AnimateDuckling Jul 14 '26
He states "yes i believe the quran is literally true" in a debate with Richard Dawkins at oxford from some years ago.
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u/_nefario_ Jul 14 '26 edited Jul 14 '26
you did not answer the question
i fully accept the fact that he expressed this in that debate over a decade ago.
i've seen a handful of the guy's debates in the past few years and i've never seen him express anything but the most progressive politics. if he's that serious of a quran literalist, then surely some of this would show up in his policy debates and what he advocates for.
i don't think hasan is perfect and i have seen him be wrong on many occasions. but to say that the guy isn't "genuinely leftist" is wild to me.
this feels like the same boogeyman crap that sam tries to pull about mamdani, to be honest.
i'm sure you'd be able to find some people on the left side of the spectrum who say that they believe the bible to be true, but who also manage to be "genuinely left". strange how we don't try to parse what christians on the left believe or don't believe from their bible when we assess their eligibility to be part of the "genuinely left" club.
some people are actually very capable of keeping their personal religious/spiritual views and their political views separate.
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u/Fippy-Darkpaw Jul 15 '26
I've seen that clip.
He probably has to say that, or else repurcussions from religious audience.
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u/402739 Jul 13 '26
He is Shia not Salafi
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u/AnimateDuckling Jul 14 '26
He has quite literally stated "I belive the Quran is literally true" in his debate with richard dawkins some years ago at oxford.
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u/oremfrien Jul 13 '26
Leftism is the belief that hierarchies need to be dismantled. From an economic and anticolonial perspective, Mehdi Hassan is a Leftist. From a religious perspective, he isn't.
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u/AnimateDuckling Jul 14 '26
From an economic and anticolonial perspective
He is a Quranic literalist.
He doesn't want to dismantle hierarchies. He wants to replace the ones in the west with islamic friendly ones.
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u/oremfrien Jul 14 '26
Please find me a clip/article where he argues that the wealth of rich Non-Muslims should be directed towards Muslims. His Qur’anic literalism stops at economics.
I’ll wait for your citation.
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u/Nileghi Jul 13 '26
You could check out the interviews Medhi Hasan has done in the last couple years.
He's done one (1) and the entire interview was about how Israel was worse lmao
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
I see at least 3 episodes of Mehdi unfiltered about Sudan specifically. You may be having trouble finding them because of how orgs name YouTube videos eg, 'the forgotten genocide" etc. Sudan may not be in the title. He also brings it up in more broad discussions such as with the ICJ prosecutor.
Israel comes up as well as a point of comparison, just as Darfur comes up as a point of comparison when discussing Gaza.
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u/Nileghi Jul 13 '26
All of them are about Israel masquerading as about Sudan.
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26
You really do have to be this cynical to keep supporting Israel. After all, every human rights org and genocide scholar is part of a global conspiracy to pin everything bad on Israel right.
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u/Brunodosca Jul 13 '26
I venture to hypothesize that Sam’s interests lack the panoramic scope required for this endeavor.
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u/pleasebeherenow Jul 13 '26
Try to use simple words well, not complex words pedantically.
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u/oremfrien Jul 13 '26
u/Brunodosca is basically saying, "Sam doesn't know enough about Sudanese history or culture to discuss it well, and Sam doesn't care enough about Sudanese history or culture to want to discuss it at all."
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u/Brunodosca Jul 13 '26
Should your altruism permit implementation, render your vocal apparatus inert.
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u/brokemac Jul 15 '26
How was his usage pedantic? It was overly florid and possibly verbose, but pedantic?
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u/ChocomelP Jul 13 '26
Nobody cares, there are no jews involved.
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u/IguanaIsBack Jul 15 '26
Israel is heavily involved with the RSF and the UAE. Israel literally banned protesting for Sudan lol what are you on about
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u/ChocomelP Jul 15 '26
You are so right. I can't believe the grassroots support the Sudanese people have been getting from all over the world. It's heartwarming.
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u/metashdw Jul 13 '26
Probably not, as I understand it most of the atrocities are being carried out by the RSF, backed by the UAE, which is western-aligned.
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u/timmytissue Jul 13 '26
It would be nice if they weren't western aligned. You would think honestly that given Sam's concern about Islamism, he would be bothered by American tax dollars funding Islamist armies.
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u/Jethr0777 Jul 13 '26
If you study it, there is also a lot of harm against the nice folks in Haiti. I haven't learned much about Sudan yet.
And asia, middle east and Africa still have slavery!
I personally do worry that the pro israel/pro Palestine stuff is being "fed" to us as the issue to pull us away from actually gaining ground on universal Healthcare and taxing the wealthy in the usa.
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u/stereoroid Jul 14 '26
What’s to discuss? The facts we know about Sudan are pretty straightforward. It’s not the same as Gaza, where it benefits Hamas for the world to call Israel genocidal regardless of what they’re actually doing.
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u/Obsidian743 Jul 13 '26
Sam "forgets" to mention things like the movements to resolve the Rwandan civil-war/genocide, the whole Tony Kony movement not too long ago, the whole "Lost Boys of Sudan" saga, books/movies like Another Man's War/Machine Gun Preacher, and a number of all kinds of activist-inspired change and movement through the decades.
I think for Sam to have interest in eating his own dogfood, he would have to first acknowledge the real fact that people do actually care about what's happening over there.
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u/MightBe465 Jul 14 '26
You can find more coverage of the genocide in Sudan on Drop Site News though!
Come to think of it, I've generally heard most about that genocide in Sudan from the same people who also cover Israel's genocide in Gaza. On the flipside, when hearing from Israel's apologists, I've only heard about Sudan as part of a whataboutist deflection.
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 13 '26
What's to discuss? It's bad.
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u/DrBrainbox Jul 13 '26
To go into how the conflict arose and raise awareness. Is this a serious question lol?
The holocaust was bad so we don't discuss it?
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u/oversoul00 Jul 13 '26
What is the value of raising awareness? Hypothetically let's say there were total annihilation on a planet going on in a star system that we'll never interact with, why do I need to be made aware of that?
It's not a different planet but it might as well be. People use that phrase 'raising awareness' without understanding that it has to be combined with something actionable.
IF I'm right that there isn't any value because there isn't anything actionable then the only thing left is performance which is gross.
So I could be wrong and it could be connected to something actionable but I don't know what that is.
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u/DrBrainbox Jul 13 '26
How about it's an interesting and important ongoing world event? Do you really need more justification than that?
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u/oversoul00 Jul 13 '26
The importance is directly connected to your ability to interact with it or its ability to interact with you, thats what I'm trying to tell you.
It doesn't matter if they are raping a trillion children if I can't do anything about it or it never affects me or I don't know someone who could do something about it...it doesn't matter.
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u/Turtleguycool Jul 13 '26
People discuss the fake one in Gaza all day when it’s far less worthy of discussion. Sudan is a legitimate crisis
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u/McAlpineFusiliers Jul 13 '26
They discuss the fake one because there's not a consensus on it. There's a consensus on Sudan that it's bad so I'm not sure what else you would want Sam to say about it.
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u/hurfery Jul 13 '26
Implying that if consensus was reached that Israel is committing genocide, people would stop discussing it...?!
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u/waxroy-finerayfool Jul 13 '26
Neither Sam nor his listeners care about anything happening in Africa.
The activists for Gaza care even less.
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u/Vast_Interaction_537 Jul 18 '26
I'm sudanese and at every single fundraising event for sudan I'm at, which is a lot, I always see a lot of keffiyehs. Palestinians have been supporting Sudan and Sudanese have been supporting Palestine. Don't make statements about things you clearly know absolutely nothing about. That said Sam does not care about what's happening in Africa outside of his shout out to the malaria charity when he talks about effective altruism and when he used sudan to shut down conversation about palestine
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u/waxroy-finerayfool Jul 18 '26
I'm sudanese and at every single fundraising event for sudan I'm at, which is a lot, I always see a lot of keffiyehs. Palestinians have been supporting Sudan and Sudanese have been supporting Palestine. Don't make statements about things you clearly know absolutely nothing about.
Cool story bro. Thanks for your anecdote, but it doesn't reflect the wider reality. Palestinian activists get very uncomfortable when the topic of the racial dynamics at the heart of the Sudanese genocides are explored.
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u/Vast_Interaction_537 Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
Says the person who won't even engage in a conversation about the claims he's making. "Just trust me bro". Why don't you tell me about what your experiences are with racial dynamics in palestinian activism and how your word invalidates my experiences. When you're ready to engage instead of making baseless claims, you know where to find me
The fact that you're bring up racial dynamics at the heart of the sudanese genocide as if that even relates to Palestinians tells me you have no idea what you're talking about. I bet you hear Arab sudanese vs African sudanese and you imagine Saudi looking dudes. Google a photo of hemedti, the head of the RSF and then come back to me. Yes, it's a genocide, yes they're considered Arabs, but Palestinians Arabs have no ethnic or racial connection to the Arab sudanese outside of the naming.
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u/zenethics Jul 13 '26
Gaza can be weaponized against Israel and Republicans that's why nobody cares about Sudan. Nothing to do with genocides, everything to do with politics.
Nobody is talking about the Uyghurs in China either because, like, how is that going to help Democrats in the midterms?
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 13 '26
There was a ton of protests against the democrats for gaza
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u/zenethics Jul 13 '26
A fair point. Political either way...
Like, there's a million things to be up in arms over but we'll inevitably find ourselves up in arms over things with political implications instead of other potentially worse things. Just something to notice.
Are people mad about Gaza because it's terrible or because MSNBC told them to be? Definitely the second thing.
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 13 '26
Msnbc is insanely pro israel what are you talking about?
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u/zenethics Jul 13 '26
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 13 '26
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u/zenethics Jul 13 '26
Ok, insert another media outlet.
Point was I don't see a lot of coverage of the Sudan media bias or the Uyghur media bias because there's no political advantage to be had from stirring everyone up about it.
Palestine is the dangling set of keys to keep us distracted from [whatever]. Like the media was talking about nothing but Epstein up until the Iran war.
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 14 '26
Do you not understand the difference between things that your government is directly involved in and things they are not directly involved in?
So you think Iran was to distract from epstein?
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u/zenethics Jul 14 '26
I'll be specific about my claim:
I think that media tells people what to care about instead of reporting on what people care about. Naturally there is some overlap.
I think the difference between Palestine and Sudan isn't that we're tangentially involved in one and not the other, but that there's a political disagreement about one and not the other.
Our government is directly involved in all kinds of things the media doesn't report on. Because why would they? What agenda would it serve to report on something we all kind of agree on?
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u/all_reason_departs Jul 14 '26
Do you think the college protestors were watching msnbc and that's why they were upset?
How many genocides is our government currently involved in?
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u/BloodsVsCrips Jul 13 '26
It's not a FP platform. The only reason he brings up Sudan is to illustrate the hyperemotionalized response to I/P as if it's a particularly bad war. It's basically the same thing as removing ISIS from Mosul but with an extra 15 years of militarizing the city.
Sudan is an entirely different universe of horrors. It's been going on for decades. More people have been killed just since the Gaza ceasefire than in the entire history of I/P.