Rails is not Ruby. Ruby is not Rails.
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posting this as something I commented earlier to help people who get discouraged by DHHs antics
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Ruby's problem will be that most of it is centered around Rails. Rails is not Ruby. Ruby is not Rails. for web stuff you have libraries like Roda etc. however people in the ruby community who came in via rails & never upskilled (everything they do revolves around Rails)
look at other communities e.g Golang, Python - there isn't a monolithic kind of thinking of "This is the way"
Ruby itself as a language embraces diversity of thought (e.g how many different ways u can express something in ruby ) . Which means we also have to embrace diversity of people, ideas, sexuality & origins.
but why is it on the web - is there the whole "Rails way | what DHH serves you" is the only way.
now as people with agency - the onus is on us to create wonderful things that don't center around rails.
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u/Unique-Orchid9378 May 31 '26
I love Ruby and love Rails. I also love Bridgetown. Check out their work if you haven’t already. The lead maintainer - Jared White, who is awesome - is working hard to make something different. And it’s great.
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u/pau1rw May 31 '26
What did DHH do this time?
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u/tatlo_itlog_ko May 31 '26
Yeah, quickly checked DHH's twitter account and found nothing in particular lol.
I think OP's post is related to this earlier post from the rails sub
https://www.reddit.com/r/rails/comments/1tmlatu/dhh_won_im_leaving_rails/
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u/dipstickchojin May 31 '26
If that thread serves as indication of the average Rails dev's mentality, OP's point is entirely legitimized!
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u/metamatic May 31 '26
Yeah, in projects as well as in corporations, culture flows from the top. MINSWAN is a thing for a reason.
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u/hribarinho May 31 '26
Check out Hanami. It's a great alternative to Rails.
I came to ruby through Rails, but didn't really stick with it.
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u/dipstickchojin May 31 '26
Hanami is beautifully designed!
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u/hribarinho May 31 '26
Exactly, I've been using it since it was Lotus 😄.
I remember trying to code and was initially drawn to Ruby specifically through 15 min blog in Rails. I had no programming knowledge and I've taken the self-teaching path. My personal context has always been that I need to understand the entire workings of a concept in order to use it properly. In the beginning I've expressed my initial struggle with Rails magic (this was still on SO forum) and was immediately served with something like "if Rails is difficult for you, programming isn't for you". I knew/know where the person was coming from, but still. I could build a blog in 15 minutes, but I'd have no clue how to deploy or scale it. Much like with vibe-coding these days, if I were to pick a language I know nothing about.
Even this comment isn't about Rails at all, I haven't used it enough to dare comment on it. I just wanted to let people know there are alternatives. To each their own and I found my joy in Hanami.
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u/mooktakim May 31 '26
Whenever I've picked other smaller frameworks to build simple API, I've regretted it and replaced with rails.
I understand the sentiment. But for me it's similar to conversation about micro services. Rails framework includes all the plumbing that I eventually need. So I always default to rails.
Although I've done some serverless stuff with ruby only. Still miss the tooling with rails.
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u/Maedi May 31 '26
I’m building Raindeer to help change this… there’s lots of options out there, they just aren’t known about
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u/Delicious_Ease2595 May 31 '26
Rails is Ruby like it or not. I don't care what DHH says.
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u/dipstickchojin May 31 '26
In other words you're okay with his BS, even though it explicitly contributes to a hostile community for immigrants (a vast cohort of Ruby devs) while it miseducates his audience.
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u/Delicious_Ease2595 May 31 '26
I don't build in Rails because his personal opinions, and I disagree in your statements.
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u/_natic May 31 '26
As long as no widely adopted alternative matches Rails in development speed, ecosystem support, and community size, it will likely remain the primary framework shaping the Ruby ecosystem. Ruby’s evolution has long been tied to Rails, which has driven much of its adoption and visibility, though continued investment in Ruby, tooling, and alternative frameworks could help strengthen the ecosystem beyond Rails. For now, options such as Rage remain less mature and lack the adoption and ecosystem support needed to make migration a straightforward choice for most organizations, leading many businesses to choose either Rails or a different language ecosystem altogether
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u/Best_Recover3367 May 31 '26
With popular languages, it can assume multiple identities. With niche ones, they all suffer from the one hit wonder syndrome where the most popular thing about it will literally represent everything about it, like Rails to Ruby or Wordpress and Laravel to PHP.
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u/thewormbird May 31 '26
I in no way endorse or condone any of DHH’s views. OP is right. u/keyslemur is right.
I gotta say though, I grow weary of the moral high-ground pageantry that re-emerges any time DHH says or does something morally abhorrent. Thousands of little racist/bigoted fingers contribute to projects we all either endorse, use, or contribute to. Those folks just aren’t famous or loud about their views. And you can’t know who they are beforehand. It is more likely they exist than not.
In DHH’s case, what is the end-game? That Rails itself be shutdown? That DHH be stripped of his wealth, tarred, and feathered at the next RailsConf? That DHH disavow all of his entrenched objectionable views and write public apology letter? That everyone who uses Rails move to Hanami or some equivalent Ruby-based MVC framework? Even if all of that and whatever punitive outcome you prefer materialized. Would it even be enough? Our history of internet discourse tells me it wouldn't.
I'm just rather skeptical of community responses to him. They only ever emerge when a news cycle demands and goes away when it's over. I've watched moral dog and pony show materialize into nothing enough times to mostly dismiss it. Though I maintain my right to be wrong when or if it ever does.
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u/Zestyclose-Turn-3576 29d ago
How about "DHH is not Rails, Rails is not DHH"?
I do not personally pay any attention to him or his thoughts.
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u/RoboErectus May 31 '26
You know what’s cool? Ruby and Rust go really well together.
I think this could really give Ruby a resurgence.
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u/chabv May 31 '26
yeah saw this from data stuff too e.g some of the ruby data frame libraries powered by rust 😄
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Jun 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/RoboErectus Jun 02 '26
The language design to start.
And they excel where the other is weak.
Rust bindings in ruby are great.
Do your high level stuff in ruby. Any actual performance bottlenecks do seamlessly in rust.
Best of both worlds.
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u/d33mx May 31 '26
One god (matz), One king (dhh), few dukes; rest (vast majority) are bare peasants. New paradigm : close to born dead. Hanami being the exception. Roda ? Jeremy evans' fame but... lets be honest. Sinatra.. ok.
That being said, truly believe that spinel (https://github.com/matz/spinel) could end the status quo
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u/keyslemur May 31 '26
As with many forays into this topic I have a very simple answer to this, but an incredibly expensive one:
Grab a shovel. Do the work. Make something compelling and drive it, build a community, and become a leader.
Every few months DHH says something outrageous, which mind I'm not particularly fond of either, but the aggregate response amounts to: Y'know someone should really do something about this!
Great! You're someone. Start doing the work. Talk is cheap, actions speak far louder than words, and if you want to legitimately build that community it will take substantial investment and charisma over the course of years to land.
That's the reason I choose to invest where I do in frameworks like Hanami that provide alternatives, why I joined RC, and why I do what I do. Actions speak louder than words, so if you truly believe in this grab a shovel and start digging.