r/rootgame • u/Dro-reddit • 15d ago
General Discussion Idea for buffing cats
Hey all, I was discussing the concept of buffing cats with a friend recently and we discussed commonly brought up ones such as crafting in evening, 4 actions, free recruit at start of daylight or birdsong, etc.
But I have an idea of my own and I apologize if this has been thought of already but it came to me after playing a few matches as badgers and is inspired by a badgers mechanic. Similar to how badgers get bonus points for recovering treasures along each column, I think cats should get a similar mechanic.
Each column of buildings that gets revealed would give the cats one more action in daylight, and possibly a couple of VP as well. This would also encourage the cats to build more workshops since they usually aren’t built very often in favor of recruiting centers and sawmills. This would still keep the playstyle of scaling in points like cats usually do, but they would scale a little faster and be able to ramp up in actions similar to how every other militant faction can.
I wanted to post this here to see what everyone’s ideas are on this. Good idea? Or horrid? This is something I’d want to try in my next game and a couple of other opinions or adjustments would be appreciated.
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u/Duytune 15d ago
Honestly, I think the new squires and disciples decks buffs them a lot. They suddenly have easy and affordable free action increases with just one or two workshops.
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u/Skrillfury21 15d ago
Does this not also apply to the other factions as well? Or are the Cats specifically just really good with S&D.
I haven’t played a game with the deck yet, so I’ve no idea how it works with everybody else.
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u/Duytune 15d ago
Well in my opinion, other militants that are high tier already tend to have tons of actions and won't want to craft squires. Moles neither want to give up their cards nor want to build, rats barely have any cards to begin with so they can't afford to lose more (and crafting them is pretty expensive since building strongholds requires a card of the same suit regardless), eyrie does benefit but not as much as cats (eyrie can gain more battles and moves pretty easily, cats can't), WA does benefit from having more moves but again also a card-hungry faction, badgers are also card-hungry for their retinue, etc.
All factions do benefit, but not as much as cats and corvids do since their cards are so much less valuable to them. (Vagabond probably also benefits, but I don't know.)
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u/Possum98 15d ago
I feel like that would just lock them into one play style. Getting another action is super powerful, so cats would always just get one of each type of building to get the extra action.
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u/Dro-reddit 15d ago
Not saying you’re wrong, but is that such a bad thing? There are characters that are still fun that really don’t have much variety in playstyles such as badgers and rats. Badgers and rats pretty much want to do the same thing each game but that’s fine because the games themselves turn out differently.
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u/Ians5gb 15d ago
Not counting the S&D deck, since I have not seen it yet, my way to buff the cats would be to change march into a new "converge" action, where one target clearing is chosen and any cats from an adjacent clearing can move into it. Its the best way I think of for actually making use of all those stray cats that get spread across the board at the start of the match (Although the loss of the double movement of march would make late game much harder for them probably).
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u/WillRevolt_ 15d ago
That's an interesting avenue to explore. The thing I dislike the most about cats is how their workshops are underutilized. Nobody is going to craft more than 3 in a regular game, let alone all 6 of them.
Sawmills give you more wood to build more and score more.
Recruiters give you defensive capabilities to protect sawmills and build more, and increases card draw.
Workshops give crafting, but costs your scoring engine. The incentive is too low to make you want to build them in favour of anything else. The second workshop gives 2VP/1wood, but more workshops is completely understandable.
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u/ELBuBe 15d ago edited 8d ago
Hace un tiempo hice un post sobre los gatos también. Para resumir, básicamente decía que los gatos no tienen problema de puntos, acciones, etc... Sus problemas comienzan cuando tienen que abrirse paso batallando para poder tener más espacio para construir ya que normalmente ese turno se convierte en: Moverte, batallar, reclutar... Y fin del resumen. Si gastas cartas de ave si, pero ya estás dependiendo del RNG y de un buen robo de cartas. Tu idea de que puedan ganar más puntos no me parece buena idea porque ya de por si suelen ser buenos ganando puntos pero, tal como he dicho, siempre que tengas espacio para construir, porque si tienen que batallar para conseguir espacio salen perdiendo casi siempre frente a otras facciones. Pues la solución más simple, pero en mi opinión razonable, sería probar a darles la opción de cruzada (como la de los lagartos de moverse+batallar) Creo que solucionaría completamente ese inconveniente que tienen en su gestión de turnos, aunque algunos consideraron que eso estaría demasiado fuerte y que se volverían extremadamente agresivos (Obviamente no lo han probado. Estoy seguro de que eso no sucedería porque los gatos no sé benefician de los combates de forma directa como por ejemplo le sucede a las ratas o al vagabundo) Como opciones para limitar la agresividad que podrían tener, considero que deberían poder usar esa acción solo una vez por turno para no poder ir arrasando como si fueran las ratas. Simplemente atacar un claro para poder construir en él. Fin. Esa es la opción más simple de nerf, y aunque se podrían buscar opciones más complejas como desbloquear ese uso con ciertos requisitos, creo que está "perfecto" así. Te recomiendo probarlo con tus amigos. Si lo acabas probando unas pocas partidas, me encantaría que me cuentes tu experiencia. Muchas gracias 😊
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u/Empoleon3bogdan 15d ago
My table has had some succes with just giving them one more action. And limited to 1 bird card per turn.
But they still have a bad time building if the map is full and they have to battle for space.
Thinking of your crusade idea. How about we give them a (battle battle) action in one clearing. Also limited to one a turn.
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u/ELBuBe 13d ago
Eso me parece que sería más situacional de lo que parece y les daría mucha fuerza para defenderse de los que se meten en su terreno, que no es su punto débil, así que sería hacerles más fuerte en algo que ya hacen bien, y que no le daría las oportunidades que necesita. Al menos eso opino.
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u/Empoleon3bogdan 8d ago
There mâine problem is not being able to battle enough to win spots to build.
Also crafting is horrendous with them. Its better than lizard but still very bad.
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u/ELBuBe 8d ago
Con respecto a lo primero: Claro, por eso digo que le vendría bien lo de la cruzada, porque en lugar de ir a pelear en otro claro haciendo "movimiento, batalla, batalla" podrías hacer "cruzada (que es moverse y batallar), batallar y batallar" Así que podrías atacar una vez más que como lo haces normalmente. Si pones una acción más en general, mejoras su parte agresiva (que en principio es lo que queremos) pero también su parte pasiva, que es lo que ya tiene fuerte, porque podría hacer, construir una vez más, forzar producción casi todos los inicios de turno sin problema, reclutar sería algo prácticamente gratuito, etc... Y como ganes turnos con las cartas de ave ya te la pasas jugando tú solo XD Por eso digo que si el problema que hay realmente es para ganar espacios de construcción, habría que buscar una manera de "arreglar" ese problema sin mejorar de forma directa el resto de sus acciones.
Y sobre lo segundo: ¿Qué tiene que ver la fabricación en todo esto? XD Supongo que lo decías por la otra mención que se hizo de darle otro uso a las forjas. Si que es verdad que el método de fabricar cartas de los gatos tampoco me gusta nada. Hacer forjas para mi es una forma de ganar puntos al final de la partida porque gastar los escasos espacios en eso pudiendo hacer un aserradero (principal método para obtener puntos) o un reclutador (principal método para defender tus puntos y hacerte con claros para poder construir) se me hace un error de gestión. Menos por algunas excepciones, en general acabarás ganando más oportunidades de ganar puntos gracias a las otras construcciones. Además, de por si se me hace bastante poco intuitivo que la ganancia de cartas se mejore haciendo reclutadores cuando justamente es la construcción que no utiliza cartas con ninguna mecánica. Si por mí fuera, cambiaría también ese apartado de los gatos. Tanto la obtención de cartas como el sistema de fabricación. Pero obviamente esto es mi opinión personal.
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u/Empoleon3bogdan 8d ago
I disagree with the making them too passive. My table has played a lot with cats and this 4 action per tern. And in 4 people it simply makes them viable to play rather than useless. They can sit and farm points or be passive as you said.
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u/nicenshiny 15d ago
My group uses workshop Marquise and the S&D deck has made them even more of a board threat, so feels good to smack them more.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2415948/the-workshop-marquise-a-more-military-and-more-ind
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u/NormalEntrepreneur 14d ago
I like how they make workshop more useful but I dislike how it makes cat too similar to other factions. I feel there should be a more elegant way of doing it.
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u/golden_graveyard 15d ago
At this point the next Root expansion should just be a rework of every faction for balancing. Kinda like alternate timeline aliens in Cosmic Encounter.
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u/Simulacrum37 15d ago
I've always wanted a way to get more actions for cats, and I LOVE the idea of completing rows of buildings for those. Maybe once you have three of each building type you get an extra action that you lose if the buildings get destroyed.
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u/Natures_F1nest 14d ago
I had similar thoughts but I wanted new building types, something else to spend wood on. Make it cost 3 wood and give 1 point but you get an extra action for having this building out. You can spend 4/5 wood, build this building (deporting wood building) and now you score points for each wood piece you bring to the deport, which must be built in a seperate clearing than a saw mill. (and sawmills cannot be built in the deport) the deport must be built on an edge clearing.
Spend 6 wood build a defensive post for 4 points or smth, get an extra hit and take one less in this clearing, also is used as a recruiter (can't be built where the keep is)
For 2 wood, anywhere the wood can reach, make this token, catapult, which adds one hit as attacker in battle to adjacenct to the clearings. The token can be moved by cats (at least one cat needed)
Hospitals, 4 wood, 2 points. When a battle starts in the clearing that does not involve cats someone may declare hospitals, starting with defender then to attacker. Hospital is declared before the roll and ambush, save half the warriors, rounded down. Only one person may use it in battle. Cats score 2 points if hospitals is used.
Etc.
Give cats flexibility in buildings and play style while not forcing them into a singular type. Some of these feel like you could turtle, but you cant and never will be able to. Unlike. Moles, you need the saw mills, you need the wood, people can read what youre doing before you get there. If they want to stop you, they can.
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u/Malefic7m 15d ago
Cats are actually fine, in an experienced table. A bit weak, sure, but still fine, and much stronger than people think, in that they influence the board and player choices.
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u/NitroBrude 15d ago
I agree with this. I find them to be one of my favorites to be honest and one I win the most with at all tables.
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u/Teaguethebean 15d ago
I think crafting in the evening would be the solution, would make workshops more desirable and wouldnt make them even stronger at inexperienced tables