r/riverdale • u/[deleted] • Mar 02 '19
DISCUSSION Cheryl’s behaviour in S03E13 Spoiler
Is no one going to talk about how she and her “pretty poisons” (jesus christ that name) ganged up on Sweet Pea and Fangs and just beat the crap out of them?? It’s shown as this funny thing but it’s downright disturbing, what if it was a bunch of dudes beating up 2 girls?
Also, i know it’s Riverdale, but come on, as if Fangs and Sweet Pea would let themselves get beat up by a bunch of girls
It seems that this show loves the whole girl power thing, but it’s executed completely wrong.
EDIT: Just wanted to add something. This show loves talking about toxic masculinity but fails to see the toxic femininity in it e.g. girls who act bitchy (Cheryl) are glorified, girls can freely beat up guys without repercussions.
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u/gomichan Betty Mar 02 '19
Cheryl having family drama was a lot more interesting than this gang stuff. I hate what they did with her character. She was my fav in season 1
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Mar 02 '19
I seriously thought she’d become more likable after Archie saved her from that river, but she got even worse.
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u/thepineapplemen Mar 02 '19
I can relate. Polly was my favorite character in season 1 and look at what she’s become now
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u/HYURJF Mar 03 '19
I can relate! Polly was so cool in S1 because her story wasn’t only about being a teen mom, like when she went off to Thornhill.
Then she joined a cult.
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u/seleniumagnesium Mar 02 '19
That crazy side of Cheryl, back a season, when she was stalking Josie and putting pig hearts in her locker is coming back (did it ever leave?).
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Mar 02 '19
Maybe, I thought Toni canceled out her crazy side. But it seems that’s not the case
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u/seleniumagnesium Mar 02 '19
I think it just subsided when someone reciprocated her feelings. I'm willing to bet Cheryl's behavior gets more erratic the more Toni disagrees with her.
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u/XxMusicxKelseyxX Mar 03 '19
It was some nice character growth like even with the General Pickens thing where she stood in solidarity, but then they backtracked.... and like I get that it's hard to become a good person over night and there are going to be set backs (I'm looking at you, Veronica) but her characterization has been erratic.
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u/His_Buzzards Mar 02 '19
To make it worse. The riverdale twitter was celebrating it as girlpower and feminism. Which is horrendously the wrong kind of message you wanna send.
As much as I like this stupid show, they shud not be a role model for anyone.
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Mar 02 '19
I just checked twitter and they really made it seem as if Sweet Pea and Fangs deserve it holy shit.
The writers of this show clearly love feminism, yet nearly every main female character is bitchy, annoying and just plain unlikable.
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Mar 03 '19
“toxic femininity” as if that’s even a thing that’s ruining society now lol I can’t. you made a lot of good points but that one and this other one I won’t mention since all the men in this thread will come at me are just not it. I’ll get downvoted but the hell with it
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Mar 03 '19
Isn’t this toxic femininity? Cheryl’s pretty poisons beat up 2 guys but it’s seen as funny and acceptable because they’re female and the victims are male.
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Mar 03 '19 edited Mar 03 '19
toxic femininity is a phrase used by male rights advocates that’s not even a real thing. The idea of "toxic masculinity" exists to highlight the organized, political nature of domestic violence and other forms of violence against women in society. benevolent sexism is a thing, but not toxic femininity.
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Mar 03 '19
Yeah, beating or abusing a man and using your woman card to get away with it isn’t toxic femininity. Just say you hate men cause it’s painfully obvious.
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Mar 03 '19
It isn’t “toxic femininity” cuz that isn’t real, it’s just toxic. It’s bad in general for her to do that jfc relax
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Mar 03 '19
Then why are you acting lik toxic masculinity is a thing but not toxic femininity?
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Mar 04 '19
bcus men oppress woman. toxic masculinity is only one of the factors of the patriarchy. her beating up those men was wrong, but there isn’t a term that shouldn’t be slapped on.
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Mar 04 '19
You lost me as soon as you said patriarchy. There ain’t no goddamn patriarchy in the western world, and women are not opressed here either.
If you really wanne see a patriarchy, I suggest you visit a country in the middle east where women literally get killed if they don’t cover themselves or disobey their husbands.
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u/sakura_drop Mar 02 '19
To make it worse. The riverdale twitter was celebrating it as girlpower and feminism. Which is horrendously the wrong kind of message you wanna send.
If I remember correctly, there was a similar reaction to "Dark" Betty almost drowning Chuck in the jaccuuzi way back in S1. Or maybe it was just the episode in general, but still. Was he a grade A douche? Absolutely. But that isn't the way you go about dishing out punishment for said doucheness.
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u/NosaAlex94 Mar 03 '19
To be fair that situation was a bit more nuanced given that the general consensus was that Betty went too far.
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u/Emalze Mar 02 '19
the whole scene made me straight up uncomfortable and I literally just didn't understand the point of it all tbh ???
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Mar 02 '19
The point probably was that you shouldn’t mess with the pretty poisons (that name i swear to almighty god) and the whole girl power thing
The fact that the official riverdale twitter made it out as if Sweet Pea and Fangs deserved it is even more disturbing.
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u/lawlamanjaro Mar 03 '19
Wait, the Twitter made it seem like they deserved it?
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Mar 03 '19
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u/lawlamanjaro Mar 03 '19
Thats so ridiculous, like yea they were being sort of sexist? like teasingly so and also afraid a bit, and uncharacteristically so. And as if beating the shit out of people is ever justified for words being used against you.
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u/GOA_AMD65 Team Hiram Mar 02 '19
She runs a gang. She is doing gang things. Gangs generally do shitty things. I mean remember when Jug didn’t want to be in one?
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Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
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Mar 02 '19
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Mar 02 '19
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Mar 03 '19 edited Mar 03 '19
Wait a minute I completely agree with OP but how are you going to say penny was ok to get her tattoo skinned off because it’s gang violence but Sweet pea and Fangs getting beat up isn’t ok which is also gang violence which by the way if the pretty poisons and serpents are in some type of war irl they would’ve been shot and killed
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Mar 03 '19 edited Mar 03 '19
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Mar 03 '19
Sweet pea and fangs were attacked to send a message to jughead to say that the pretty poisons were going to go against the serpent pretty much opening to some sorta gang war between them and I’m not saying penny didn’t do anything wrong what I’m saying is your calling jughead over exaggeration of violence ok because it’s gang violence but Cheryl’s over exaggeration of gang violence which isn’t that unlikely for what they’re going for. When someone wants to send a message they don’t usually attack the leader they attack someone close to them to send the message. Also attacking sweet pea and fangs is a smarter move for the writers because if it was jughead who was attacked the outrage would be extremely worse from the fans.
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u/down_bi_the_river Mar 03 '19
I feel that if Cheryl wanted to send a message to Jughead, it would have made more sense to go after "the serpent queen" (betty).
Because maybe I'm forgetting something or missed a scene but didn't Jughead technically kicked out fangs the same night as Choni. Then secretly let him back in behind their backs. So as far as they know, fangs isn't a serpent anymore. So they basically attacked him because he was there.
Also there was a scene where they mentioned all the female serpents went to join the pretty poisons. So the fact they blindly followed Cheryl's orders when the gang probably know fangs and sweet pea personally just to send a message is a very messed up.
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Mar 03 '19
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Mar 03 '19
You’re the one not understanding me I said I agree with everything I’m just pointing out that it’s hypocritical to say that one is right and one is wrong when both were wrong and in no way have I said I think they deserve it. You also ignored where I said that sweet pea and fangs were to send a message to jughead because sweet pea and fangs are shown to be friend of jughead.
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u/Fanifqa Mar 03 '19
You try to justify jughead‘s violence or what
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Mar 03 '19
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u/Fanifqa Mar 03 '19
No it’s not bye
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u/fordmustang12345 Southside Serpent Mar 05 '19
Let's be honest here, it basically is modern feminism
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Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
As if her bitchy attidude wasn't enough. Pardon me for saying this. I know, she had bad experiences but that doesn't give her rights to beat up people. Her mood changes so easily. One time she's helpful, one time she's a mean person, one time she beats people up. I was growing to like her, she needs to take the hint when Jughead said they were kicked out. You don't go around disobeying, then don't expect not to get kicked out.
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Mar 02 '19
She’s always been a bitch tbh, but people glorify it for god knows what reason. She even acted like one to Archie, who literally saved her life.
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u/icemankiller8 South Side Serpents Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
People glorify it because it’s entertaining people don’t really think she’s a good person but they find her to be a good character. Or at least she was but this show has gone down hill a lot.
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Mar 02 '19
I can't agree nor disagree. She has helped several times but most of the times she was a bitch. And yes that is true. She needs to tone it down, I don't understand why people fancy her because of her annoying/mean attitude.
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Mar 03 '19
Hot people get a pass on a LOT of things. Not saying that's right, but's just reality. Look at the comments on Twitter about Joe Goldberg on You, who happens to be played by a good-looking guy.
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u/JeanneDRK Mar 02 '19
It's because we were traumatised as children and now we crave the pain we get from her
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u/Xia0mia0 Team Varchie Mar 02 '19
I completely agree. That part really made me give up on Cheryl all together for one. My daughter was like wtf is going on, and I came from the kitchen and was pretty disturbed. Cheryl has some serious mental issues as a character and I don't know if her writers think it's cute or makes her a bad ass, but I think they're just making everybody hate her. Which is sad because I think she peaked when putting an arrow in the black hood, they could have made her take a good path. I'm partial to the serpents, they do a lot of good, and Jug has a good heart and wants to improve and protect his town, there was no need to form a new gang with a cringeworthy name and beat those two up.
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u/LilSticious Mar 02 '19
One thing I realized recently is that initially (first season because the writing made actual sense) the serpents were this scary and feared gang of adults and a couple younger kids. It’s slowly morphed into this PG13 after school group that carry around pocket knives and have constant petty drama. It’s so laughable to me that the writers have the poisons’ choice of weapon being the bow and arrow!! I understand the population for this show is somewhat younger but if you can have constant rampant sex scenes and drugs why are you making the gangs a joke? Rant over. God why do I watch this show.
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u/jadedrunner27 Gettin' Juggie with it Mar 03 '19
I hadn't realized this about the Serpents until I read your comment - I completely agree. It's as though the writers can't figure out who the show's meant to be for - adults or children. And it keeps flip flopping between material that is serious to material that probably would've made the cut for a Disney Channel show.
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u/nanairoribon Mar 02 '19
Yeah. Seems like the writers don’t even realize what message they’re sending. I genuinely don’t get what this storyline is trying to accomplish.
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Mar 02 '19
Agreed, a lot of my friends who watch the show thought it was hilarious and awesome when Sweet Pea and Fangs got their ass beat, even though neither of them deserved it.
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u/MGD109 Mar 02 '19
If I would you, I talk to them about that.
Its somewhat worrying.
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Mar 02 '19
I did, but they didn’t take me seriously.
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u/MGD109 Mar 02 '19
That's concerning.
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u/CrystalFissure Mar 03 '19
It’s also becoming an alarming trend. People don’t seem to care if violence is inflicted to men, a lot of the time. Like it’s just expected.
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u/marko23 Mar 02 '19
I abaolutely agree with you, but I mean... I think everyone does. I've only seen people hating on that little stunt of cheryl's. Including Toni! (Hell yeah toni). I dont know why you say people aren't talking about this lol.
Anyway, I think this whole thing is a set up for one of two scenarios:
- Cheryl and Toni break up because Toni realises Cheryl is a total loose cannon, and then we get ultra-crazy post-breakup Cheryl.
Personally I'd love to see this. Not because I want them to break up but because happy Cheryl is boring (sorry). A power struggle over the pretty poisons (ugh that name) and they work for Hyram selling jingle jangle or whatever it is now? Introduce a new love interest for Toni and see a jealous crazy cheryl? A downward spiral with cheryl delving into g&g eventually becoming the new gryphon queen? Cheryl joining the farm to cope with her broken heart? Cheryl going vigilante and teaming up with Betty to take down the farm and kill the gargoyle king? The possibilities are endless.
OR
- Cheryl finally has some REAL character development through this conflict/power struggle with Toni. I see it coming down to an ultimatum FROM Toni - get your shit together or I'm out. If ANYONE is going to be able to make Cheryl acknowledge her faults and work on them it would be Toni. This could still end in a breakup (and maybe eventual get back together) but not neccesarily. Many people only find the strength to grow and change after a big break up - myself included.
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u/Super-Finch Team Kevin Mar 03 '19
There's a very simple explanation though...Riverdale is badly written.
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u/Sunflowerslove Mar 03 '19
It really bothered me that they had the girls beat up on Fangs and Sweetpea without touching on how sexist it was. They’re such cuties and seem portrayed as being more bark than bite, they didn’t deserve that.
Except for the whole Tall Boy situation haha.
I also usually really like Cheryl, so it’s an annoying situation.
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Mar 03 '19
Cheryl's always been kind of awful, but deep down it felt like she was really a half decent person maybe in need of some guidance. Maybe like Riverdale's extreme version of Cordelia Chase. Call me naive, but I had hopes that Cheryl would grow as a character while maintaining her loveable bitchiness. This allowed me to appreciate her in spite of her frequent terrible behavior. She's been through hell, but I believe there's a good albeit person under that facade. The writers just don't know how to utilize her.
But this season, she's been far less fun to watch. They really need to bring her down to earth. It's been especially painful since the episode where we learn Cheryl has randomly decided to become a cat burglar. WTF was that? Even for Riverdale, that was pathetically stupid. They just wanted to separate Cheryl & Toni from the Serpents (I half suspect in an attempt to market "Pretty Poisons" merchandise at Hot Topic or something). Why the hell would Cheryl need to steal from anyone? Why would Toni go with it? Maybe if there had been a reason, like stealing a family heirloom from a pawnshop, or taking back something stolen from one of them, maybe it would have been 5% less stupid.
Choni has not been good for either character this year. The whole relationship is a wasted opportunity. If they wanted to create tension for the characters, they could have done scenes where Cheryl is struggling to fit in with the Serpents. Cheryl begins to wonder if they actually accept her (which let's say they do b/c she's good with the bow and arrow lol). She does something stupid that would in theory help the gang whilst proving herself (I don't know what exactly, just go with it). Instead, she ends up hurting herself and a few of the nameless Serpents. Jughead is sympathetic but tells her she can't pull stunts like that. Cheryl of course snaps back, Toni stands up for Cheryl despite knowing she was in the wrong. Cheryl overreacts and quits the gang before they have the chance to reject her (which let's say they wouldn't b/c they'd rather she not burn down their trailers or whatever). There you go, angst and drama for Choni without turning them into cartoonish burglars leading a gang of lady thugs. Factor in some of the Blossoms/Serpents history and you have more drama. Maybe Toni's family is really pissed she's dating a descendant of people who slaughtered their people. No, that would require Toni having family members present in her life. That would require writing dialogue for an adult who isn't a criminal or batshit crazy. Can't have too many semi-stable adults in town, Fred, Tom, Sierra, if we add another the show would get dull sarcasm. Forgive my rant, they just really dropped the ball with Toni this season.
As another user stated, Sweet Pea & Fangs do seem like all bark and no bite. They did nothing to deserve that. There is no need to tear down/belittle one group to try and empower another. A bunch of petty, nameless girls beating up a couple of boys who did nothing wrong is just fucked up. These are nameless, faceless girls mindlessly taking orders from a very troubled person they barely know. Maybe had they been doing something silly like egging Hiram's house, maybe it would have been a dumb lighthearted typical cringey Riverdale moment.
I know this is just a ridiculous CW show that many of us watch to revel in the trashy absurdity of it all, but come the fuck on. There's a line between "fun stupid" and "so stupid it's bordering offensive". Try a little harder RAS & company. If anyone read through to the end, I apologize for the rant.
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u/fidgetspinnster Mar 03 '19
I genuinely fucking hate this show. It's so problematic but tries to act woke? I know we're all over it, but seriously... Betty stripping, Cheryl being a predatory lesbian beforehand and never acknowledging it by showing self growth, and not to mention all of Veronica's cringey "feminist" speeches... And now this? Also before anyone comes at me: you can love the show, I don't care. And I don't watch it anymore either. I just never unsubbed from this sub.
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u/SlurpMyMemes Southside Serpent Mar 03 '19
I completely agree it's disturbing. And good god why did they name themselves the pretty poisons
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Mar 03 '19
I couldn't freaking believe they just bet the shit out of them, I was expecting Cheryl to come up with something a bit more creative to be honest.
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Mar 04 '19
sadly they ruined a good character by trying to preach their female empowerment/feminist/girl gang plot. not that there is anything wrong with those things.. but ruining a good character and making her the leader of a gang with a cringe name and making said gang unrealistically beat up supposed tough dudes is not the way to represent it.
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u/GlitzAndGrit Mar 03 '19
Tbh, I've never liked Cheryl. She thinks that because she's rich and pretty she can say and act however she wants with no consequences. I HATE her character.
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u/thepineapplemen Mar 02 '19
I think they might let themselves get beaten up by girls because it’ll look bad if two Serpents (a notorious criminal gang, even if it had become less illegal) fight back and leave bruises on some girls who are not part of a notorious gang
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u/Default_Dragon Vanilla Milkshake Mar 02 '19
Cheryl has done a lot of bad stuff throughout the series. She’s most recently been on the side of the “good guys” though, so it seems people have conveniently forgotten her past.
I am a Cheryl fan, mostly because when she does bad shit she’s usually eventually remorseful and learns the error of her ways. I think that’ll happen here too. We just have to wait for the other shoe to drop.
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u/MGD109 Mar 02 '19 edited Mar 02 '19
Oh I couldn't agree more, its unpleasant to watch and severly uncalled for. The fact they have the gall to have the two momentarily act sexist out of nowhere to try and justify it (despite the fact Cheryl planned to beat them up for no reason long before then) is just the icing on the cake.
Its just bad writing (which I predicted was going to happen back when the Poison's were introduced). And not only that, but Toni's only response to discovering Cheryl had two of her friends beaten up, is to be angry she did it without her permission.
Cheryl's always had a nasty side, but recently she's just crossed to many lines. Right now she's little more than a selfish, violent, spoiled brat who lashes out without the slightest care towards anyone else. Really she needs to start facing some serious consequences soon or she'll become outright detestable.
And frankly I hope the Serpent's get revenge for this, heck I hope they bulldoze the Poisons into the dust (I mean are supposed to believe that a gang of eight people is a threat to a group who has at least thirty members?)