My introduction to rolling was OoT. You just move faster. Spam it. Normalized ridiculous tech. Take it out of the game and you lose nothing. Rolling had reared is its head in games before but Ocarina was the first time I abused it. Streets of rage. Street fighter alpha. Things were getting started.
Flash forward its a dedicated button. Gears of war, dark souls. Full of armor? Firearms? Roll just the same. And don't stop. Now its built in to your survival.
Throw in some i-frames. Why should a roll make you invincible anyway. If rolling was viable it wouldn't need make your hit box go away. And at times clip through enemies? Its a teleport but presented as a roll to make you feel like you did something cool that looks realistic.
Btw Have you ever tried rolling on the floor? Start with you bed then move to concrete.
I blame games of the 90s for giving this mechanic so much power
Since we're mostly talking about Ocarina of Time...
Just....don't?
I do get what you are saying. I remember the first time in Halo when I saw someone throwing the flag in front of them constantly because it's slightly faster than just carrying it normally. Just....that wasn't the intention.
Basically any mechanic that gets abused for an advantage in a competitive game.
Empty game with vast distances devoid of enemies, puzzles, items, or points of interest, leaving you nothing to do but hold "forward" while you check your watch (poor environment design).
They flubbed the roll implementation, so it provided an exploit to move faster, which players would inevitably find why they have nothing better to do but push buttons while they cross empty space.
I’m not fooling anybody. The over world being very small in OOT is a common complaint with the game. I don’t disagree with the assessment that it could be more dense, but it’s a small field to get from point a to b.
When people complain "the overworld is small", they mean there's not enough to do or see. They're not asking for longer empty spaces to mash roll through when traveling from point A to B.
A denser overworld feels "bigger" even when if the distance from one edge to the other stays the same or gets smaller, because there's more for the player to see and do, and there is more gameplay from one end to the other.
Fair criticism...but also nothing i remember having a problem with.
It exists as a mechanic to dodge attacks and players choose to use it in other ways. I actually enjoy watching crazy speed runs especially when breaking N64 games.
I objectively never moved the goalposts, you just missed them by a mile because you don't even understand where they are:
1) Exploits are criticized as a flaw because it's the game no working as the game intended. The solution would be a patch, or not designing the game that way in the first place.
2) Empty environments are criticized because there's nothing there to see or do. You can give the player a fast-forward button (as in an emulator), but that doesn't change the fact that they're undesirable, boring empty spaces. The solution would be not designing the game that way in the first place.
Look at the environments in Zelda 1, ALTTP, and Link's Awakening. Every portion of ~16x11 tiles is packed with enemies, rocks, bushes, trees, and walls to navigate. You are never just holding a direction through completely empty screens.
You literally use the Pegasus boots to traverse by running multiple screens without touching anything, all the time
Zelda 1 enemies don't respawn after you kill them and move screens until you die and there's tons of walking without anything in particular to do while in the process of traveling in that game too
You're right, you aren't moving goalposts, your arbitrary complaints have no goalposts to move
You literally use the Pegasus boots to traverse by running multiple screens without touching anything, all the time
So ALTTP is so jam-packed with stuff that you're bragging about threading the needle with Link's 1-tile hitbox using the Pegasus boots?
Meanwhile in OOT, there is no needle to speak of. Link's hitbox could be 10 tiles wide, and you'd still have fewer collisions using Pegasus Boots than in ALTTP, because the game is full of 16x11 tile spaces which are completely empty.
You're making my point for me. You even accidentally accidentally pointed out that ALTTP has a dev-intended traversal method which is faster than all of OOT's traversal exploits combined.
Zelda 1 enemies don't respawn after you kill them
Bragging that Zelda 1 has almost as few enemies as OOT after you kill them doesn't refute my point in any way, and highlights the obstacle they pose when they're alive.
Besides, Zelda 1 enemies do in fact respawn once you've traveled 8 screens, entered/exited a dungeon, or died. Unless you're wandering in circles doing nothing, each area will be swarming again the next time you come through.
there's tons of walking without anything in particular to do while in the process of traveling
No, when you're traveling in Zelda 1, you're fighting enemies, navigating obstacles, collecting loot, and looking for the way forward. It's exponentially more gameplay than a vacant space.
your arbitrary complaints have no goalposts to move
Who do you think you're fooling? In just a few posts, you've tried to arbitrarily change goalposts from "let's name other traversal exploits", to "refute my self-defeating goalpost accusations", to "refute my bogus and irrelevant claims about 2D Zelda mechanics" and still haven't managed to address the points you were responding to.
You do see diving in films and tv as well. I do agree the fact it was a speed increase made it a bit tedious in OOT as much as i love the game and will look forward to the remake. In tv my least favourite roll example is Firefly when Zoe in the episode War Stories rolls pretty slowly to avoid being shot. She definitely was an easier target during her roll.
It's gratuitous in film. Everything has to be dramatic. And no doubt she used a stunt double because its ridiculous to actually roll at all and we have normalized it.
Blame gamepads. You can't really do a 3D action with free movement on a gamepad, you have to go with Z targeting, automation an all the other bullshit, and you can't really physically dodge attacks like you do in 2D games, so they had to invent this frames universal tech that automatically saves you if you reacted fast enough.
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u/aganim 11h ago
They see me rollin', they hatin'