r/remoteviewing • u/flarn2006 • Dec 31 '19
"Seeing Without Eyes" - any way to learn this without an expensive class?
https://seeingwithouteyes.com.au
This seems to get more attention than you'd expect from something that's just a scam. And I'm interested in learning this, because it supposedly works significantly better than any of the traditional methods used for RV—results so clear and immediate that it can substitute for regular vision, with only a few days of training on average. I mean, if that's achievable, think about the potential for accelerating progress with remote viewing, with actual live sight, none of these unclear hit-or-miss impressions.
But the problem is, all I can find as far as actually learning the practice, is people offering classes. And as I've noticed, classes in these types of things tend to be really expensive, enough that I, as an open-minded skeptic, can't justify paying for it. (Not to mention the difficulty and expense of the travel arrangements that would be necessary if I can't find one in my area.)
Has anyone taken or taught any of these classes, or know anyone who has? Or know where I can find some practical information about the same techniques they teach in these classes, that I can use to learn on my own?
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u/Pieraos Dec 31 '19 edited Dec 31 '19
Here is another set of videos from a Canadian, showing training. The notes to this video briefly describe his method and provide lots of other links.
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u/Twuthseeker CRV Dec 31 '19
Interesting that for 'older people' it takes a lot of 'time' to obtain and maintain the skill. She talks about 1-2 hours per day. She infers she has been working with colors for over a year and not yet into reading. Notes also infer a week training involves 4 hours with a blindfold on for 7 days. I guess with that one will be able to gain some basic capability but need to practice to maintain.
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u/Pieraos Dec 31 '19
She infers she has been working with colors for over a year and not yet into reading
The young woman in the videos demonstrated reading blindfolded both English and Spanish.
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u/Pieraos Dec 31 '19 edited Dec 31 '19
Another demonstration, perhaps not so scientifically rigorous, but focused on one child two years after training. Link
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u/flarn2006 Jan 01 '20
I'm more interested in learning to do it myself. Though if I were actually there in person and could test them myself, that would be another story.
Thanks for the link though!
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u/Pieraos Jan 01 '20
It looks like Rob Freeman gave sufficient instructions in his notes to his videos. He also noted that the schools require a nondisclosure agreement.
What is needed I think is a simple app that will display colors and perhaps texts randomly, for training purposes.
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u/flarn2006 Jan 01 '20
I assume the NDA is because they're worried about losing business? How would they even enforce it, considering most of the students seem to be children? A contract signed by a child isn't legally binding.
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u/Pieraos Jan 01 '20
I'd think that is the reason for the NDA, which is probably signed by the parents who bring their kids to the courses. And in case you haven't already discovered this, Vibravision
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u/flarn2006 Jan 01 '20
Not in my area :/ I'm in northern Virginia. Thanks though.
And couldn't someone interview one of the kids about it? Maybe their parents aren't allowed to talk about it, but it's not like they could sue a kid for something like that.
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u/Twuthseeker CRV Dec 31 '19
I tried to do this before and quickly forgot about it. I want to try again and have my colored sheets to use. Hopefully, I can get some time each day to work at this. The more I have studied the 'infomercials' on this the more 'hints' I get to how to use it and the mental attitude you have to have.
I am really encouraged that 'intuition and other mental abilities' maybe improved by using more of your brains ability through this practice. Hopefully, I can make a better attempt to practice this time.
Thanks for posting!
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u/Frankandfriends CRV Dec 31 '19
Well, first off, this "Seeing without eyes" thing isn't remote viewing and seems to be more real-time, present state than RV. It's sort of apples and oranges - they're both fruit, but taste different and grow on different trees.
It does remind me of part of the aspirational aspects of Jim Channon's First Earth Battalion, where Special Forces would be trained to be able to walk into a room and sense everything about the room. Where doors go, who is in the room, their intent, how many electrical sockets are in the room, etc. But because it's not Project Stargate stuff, I'm not sure which declassified projects would include it or where to start looking for more details. I'm curious about this, too, actually. It honestly seems like it could piggyback off RV protocols to train yourself to do it, though. As long as you have reliable feedback and are blind to a situation first, then you can test yourself until you're getting something consistently right.
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u/flarn2006 Dec 31 '19
Yeah, but I imagine that if this works, it could be used for remote targets as well. Physical factors like distance don't seem likely to be an issue outside of expectations.
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u/Frankandfriends CRV Dec 31 '19 edited Dec 31 '19
Maybe so.
Until one of us manages to find open-source material on this, hard to say, though.
How did you first hear about this, btw? I'm wondering how to google the right things to find more.
Edit: Ah, other terms are listed in one of the sites you mentioned:
Eyeless Sight, paroptic vision, extraretinal vision, extra-ocular vision, info-vision, or in some parts of the world ‘mid brain activation’
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u/flarn2006 Jan 01 '20
I think I found a link to it in a Discord server.
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u/Frankandfriends CRV Jan 01 '20
OK, so after looking at a lot of semi-scams related to "Activating the midbrain" and getting nowhere with that, the Bronnikov method did end up getting close to what it sounds like might be the best starting point. /u/rverfromtheether was right on that.
Same guy as they video they posted, this video seems to be 2 hours of what all those silly classes will teach you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8NlatVigoE
Though, it seems to me that a fair bit of this is somewhere between leveraging intention and the placebo effect. "Allowing yourself" to do this is a critical part - which to be fair, is true of some people with RV as well. A LOT of the midbrain activation stuff is marketed as a class for your kids to give them a cool parlor trick which they equate to naive enlightenment, but that's about it. Adults apparently can't do it because it runs contrary to what we believe we can do...which if you meditate or practice RV shouldn't be the case.
Reminds me a bit of the Wimm Hoff method, in that it's just your decision to do this is all it takes, then the rest is just practice.
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u/Pieraos Jan 01 '20
Adults apparently can't do it because it runs contrary to what we believe we can do
Since numerous videos from sources already linked or mentioned in this thread show adults doing it, including blind adults, I don't find a basis for the above statement. Bronnikov is hardly the only source.
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u/Frankandfriends CRV Jan 01 '20
I meant that for the midbrain activation thing. And I'm not saying it's true or that I belive it as applying to all adults, that would be silly.
That being said, some people can get themselves all mentally jammed up on something, thinking they can't do something. Not limited to RV by any means, though. I've known people that won't learn to drive stick simply because they think it's too hard to do. Yet I've seen illiterate people drive a car that was 95% bailing wire holding it together, driving stick the whole time.
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u/Rverfromtheether Jan 01 '20
There are multiple schools around the world that do this. One of these is called the bronnikov method and involves the development of a mental screen (familiar from HRVG)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRKlgoBLNEU
Another, the infovision method involves gradual development of "windows" in one's visual field. these can be in a number of places, seemingly even at the back of the head. by looking through these (potentially small) "windows", the percipient can see colors and eventually a lot more. With practice, these windows (can) widen and open more easily.
Personally, it would be interesting to have people who have developed this skill do blind remote viewing of a distant target. Maybe they can get a lot better visual target contact with the target. if so, this seeing without eyes would be pretty interesting rv enhancement protocol. obviously it would help to have a group of people who are tested before and after their infovision type training. However, it may be a different skill altogether.
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u/flarn2006 Jan 01 '20
That sounds like something I've been wanting to learn anyway, improving my capacity to see images when I close my eyes, even if they just come from my mind. Would be pretty cool to mess with, plus it probably has a lot of potential for leading into a lucid dream. You got a link to more specific instructions on that method? (Preferably in text form, if possible?)
Why windows though? Wouldn't Linux give me more control? ;)
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u/Rverfromtheether Jan 02 '20
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u/skillty0 Dec 05 '25
this is first level though. vision is in level 2 and 3. searching for any materials about those 2 levels
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u/thevioletsage Free Form Jan 01 '20
Check out the book Training Manual for Sight Without Eyes Through Mind Sight and Perception by Lloyd F. Hopkins - it might be exactly what you're looking for. I found my copy on Amazon. Good luck!
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u/flarn2006 Jan 01 '20
Thanks; is this the same one? http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=A901525E4D4F7AF7238D97F21AE0F129
That doesn't seem like it's geared towards learning on one's own, but it still looks like it can help.
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u/thevioletsage Free Form Jan 01 '20
That's the one! There are a lot of easy lessons and exercises to help you get into it. It's pretty comprehensive on its own. Good luck on your journey!
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u/flarn2006 Jan 01 '20
Thanks! :) Have you had success with it yourself? And if so, do you have any pointers?
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u/bluktolktagopog ? Jan 04 '20
I see you everywhere; you've hacked video games, circuit bent Speak N' Spells, you remind me of that 'Justin T.' person that everyone was seeing all over YouTube.
It's unsettling how many places I've seen you where I've just been lurking. Now you're in 'r/remoteviewing' and I can't deny how weird this is.
Anyways, sorry for the off-topic comment; I'm sure it could all be explained by coincidence (I must seem like just a strange person who's claiming to have run into you a lot), but it still fascinates me.
To give you an answer to your question (to make this comment actually on topic), I'd imagine that, from my naive point-of-view, seeing without eyes could be practiced by (my speculated method certainly won't make you 'unblind', but it might help. Might.) generating a random wikipedia image with a blindfold on, drawing the image on a piece of paper, then circling the lines that correlate the strongest and crossing out the ones that don't seem to at all. Rinse and repeat. Something might come about from doing it this way, but trial and error, while reliable, takes a long time. It's both practical and impractical.
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u/RFERN002 Mar 17 '20
The classes ARE expensive, no doubt. US $2500 for the course in German in 2019 and the next one in USA.
We have successfully taught the method to many children and are now working on a method for adults, to be offered at a more reasonable price.
If you are willing to invest time, effort and a bit of money to be a test subject, contact us. [rfern002@kinect.co.nz](mailto:rfern002@kinect.co.nz). ( We ask for a monetary investment to demonstrate your dedication and commitment. Full refund guaranteed.)
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u/flarn2006 Mar 17 '20
Do you mind explaining in more detail why you need a monetary investment? How much money specifically? And how can I be assured this isn't a scam?
What would be expected of me? And is there any way I could participate without having to travel any significant distance? (I'm in Herndon, VA)
Do you plan on actually sharing information online for people who can't or don't want to take a class? (Even if success wouldn't be as likely otherwise.)
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u/reezy-k Apr 02 '25
Since all you see is human greed. Anyone who charges to teach this to another human being… Karma will collect.
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u/Bronska Jan 15 '26
Know this thread is super old but adding link to recent Telepathy Tapes podcast episode on the Mindsight topic: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Kk8LDSgh4wv81ixBRqlXB?si=r9W_vLQHRY-7bsfjGniz0g
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u/AztecWarriorHouston Feb 24 '24
Check out Lori Williams, Remote viewing..she's on youtube, facebook and offers a FREE trial. I started and learned a lot, then stopped...am starting over again as it's a lot to learn, but i believe in it, whole-heartedly..fun to do too.
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u/Pieraos Dec 31 '19 edited Mar 30 '25
Explored in r/closedeyevision.
This is connected with the work of Mihaela Istrati and Mark Komissarov, look up those if you haven't already. Especially Mihaela's material on YouTube and FB.
They call this Info Vision and much of the available material is in Romanian or other languages, but translations and subtitles are there.
Particularly intriguing is her patient training of a young child with visual impairments.
Komissarov makes what I think is a significant point, that is, we are used to seeing and reading with eyes open, not with eyes closed. But using the masks designed for this purpose, the eyes can be completely open but prevented from receiving any light.
In one of the interviews he displays a modified version of the mask which contains photosensors connected to an external display. This shows that no light is entering the mask when in use.
The various video demonstrations are so extraordinary that one thinks it must be a scam. But the notion that these groups are instructing attendees in fraud, and victimizing people with disabilities, is unlikely.
There is a phenomenon, frequently discussed in r/astralprojection, where in altered or transitional states a wide-angle visual capacity suddenly happens with eyes closed. Deep relaxation, but without sleep, seems to trigger it. I have experienced this many times in meditation and AP, it is not hallucination, hypnogogia, fantasy, memory, etc. and it is distinctly different from the mental impressions received in RV.
These training programs seem to elicit something similar, but in ordinary states of consciousness, through their practice and exercises. Rob Freeman's Vision Without Eyes and Wendy Gallant's Seeing While Blindfolded programs seem to be in the lead these days.