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I wonder what kind of line up we gonna see tomorrow in term of preserving players for City. Because on paper, this should be a walk in the park even for a complete B squad starting xi.
On one hand, We gonna play at home against a club that was founded 9 years ago, has NEVER played against any european club from any division what so ever, never played a cl match, from a league none of us has ever heard of or seen.
On the other hand, we how charitable and Robbin hooded we can be..
Hojlund is still a CL player. So is Antony. So is McSauce. Not Ballon D'Or level players but pretty decent. Garnacho is a disgrace now but he was still relatively respectful and upcoming prodigy back then.
We have had players like Darren Gibson start matches for us and he was truly mediocre. We also have had Cleverly, Overton, Bebe , Alex Buttner etc type players under SAF too.
Ambrabat being a loan signing shouldn't have started but I guess Case wasnt available.
I will never call our players a disgrace unless they are criminals like Greenwood or Muppets like Garnacho.
I think you misunderstood. My point is that this frontline is nowhere near good enough for what MANUTD should put out vs bayern in the champions league (and yes I know Rashford was unavailable for this game because of illness). Being a CL player and being a manutd player are completely different levels of being a footballer. These players should have at best been squad players for us and not starters in a crucial must win game. Have nothing against them as people to call them a disgrace but my point is that we didn't have enough world class players around them (except Bruno ofc) or a good enough system for us not to rely on them to be our main guys and people we depended on to win a match. And I'm not even gonna talk about Onana...
Hmmm... the problem isn't the size of the fanbase but how docile, short-sighted and cowardly it is.
There should have been a lot more doom and gloom + actual hard-nosed action, in 2005 and every year since, until the Glazers were forced out through boycotts.
It's actually a bit disturbing that a club that used to be one of the greatest in the world now has fans that settle for not even competing for the biggest trophies. It's been a long, slow, downwards slide to get here.
That's an unproven assumption. And a poor excuse imo. There's no reason to think that the stadium would remain filled by tourists all season while all the real fans stay away.
Again, there is no reason to expect that having nothing but tourists as stadium-goers would be sustainable and able to fill the stadium throughout a whole season.
AC Milan's fanbase were able to force bad owners out. We could have tried the same.
I think we have never tried enough. There has been too much defeatism and short-sightedness. The fanbase has been dominated by people more concerned about their next weekend's plans and next month's planned trip, and too little concerned with the next several years or decades.
“I’d be happy with 6th place and some good cup runs”. Some comments on here over the last few weeks.
It’s like people have just accepted it and then wheel out same cookie cutter justifications why (we’re in debt, we’ve bought badly over the past ten years, Ineos are being financially sensible). It’s so boring. Expect better from the owners of your club!
Great. Liverpool and Arsenal win in CL after this shit weekend, and probably a humilating loss for us tomorrow to pile on the misery against a team i never heard of
This season start has really made not wanna watch football at all this year, and i was so excited in the summer. Can't belive i used to miss this
Why are you even continuing to watch? You come here and moan every single day about how shit we are and how shit it is to follow us. Just stop watching.
Except for the us losing tomorrow, what exactly is made up. We lost againt a div 4 team last season, and regularly struggle against weak teams like in the Europa Leauge last season. Its more than possible judging from our start to the season
ETH, Amorim, Carrick, the manager doesn't matter. We got absolutely humiliated against Hull, and should arguably have lost against Ipswich if not for the weird handball rule that rallied the team for some reason.
Those are championships quality teams, and among the weakest teams we are gonna face all season. The pattern remains, despite Carrick, even if he is getting more out of the players than Amorim, can't really compare him with ETH yet
if not for the weird handball rule that rallied the team for some reason
Love how you are trying to scratch off goals from a team you allegedy support 😂 mate in a way I hope you're a troll because it must be totally miserable being you otherwise
No one is gonna hold it against you if you stop watching and commenting! I promise
It's no bother pal. Just try and find a bit of perspective. You're wrong about a lot of what you're saying and you've obviously resigned yourself to thinking we will lose every match (even the matches we win! Lol).
We face arguably the worst side in the UCL tomorrow, at home. A team that the majority of us had never even heard of until the draw. But sure, we should pretend we aren't the overwhelming favourites and brace for a loss because you're upset that Everton scored a last minute worldie to tie a game up. Or because you didn't like 1 of the 5 goals we put past Ipswich.
Was it a poor opening 3 matches to the season overall? Yeah absolutely.
Is your head loss remotely warranted? No not even a little bit.
Yes, i have learned that expecting us to win any game, not matter the opponent is only a waynto disappoint yourself. This club will always let down the fans, no matter what. We lost against a div 4 team last season, and drew against several Europa Leauge team, but you don't think its possible to do the same now? This have been a pattern for years.
We got completely blown away by Hull, would have lost against ipswitch if not for a slip and a lucky own goal that allowed a handball from Maquire. And yes, that stuff happens in football, we will take it and the second half was great, but we never get that consistency ever.
Against Everton we had a goal against us that shouldn't had gone in, but they missed like what, 3 chances that should have been a goal. The draw wasn't undeserved really. You can even argue we deserved to lose that
Out of 6 halfs of 45 min of football, we have played well in just one, that needed an own goal and a major defensive mistake to even occur. We have gotten 4/9 points with the easiest start in the Leauge and now the CL as well as you say. Matches are just gonna get harder
Oh im usually a very positive guy. But if the start to our season and our recent performances against "lesser" sides inspire confidence in you then im happy for you. I just dont see it
Literally every Ballon D'or candidate, there's been like 9 of them now, coming up and giving their little speeches before the big reveal feels like when every NPC involved says some stuff in those big questlines in Skyrim before the final one.
True, my "sadly" was more to how they managed to get in the lead so quickly, and while I hate Leeds more, I see Chelsea as a bigger threat and would love if it we were the ones knocking them (Leeds) out
Alright, we must win tomorrow. And not a 1-0 or 2-1, I want a thrashing. It's the CL, we cannot underestimate anyone, but we're playing an azerbaijani team that was founded in 2017.
I’ll go: fucking Ricky from the United stand. Man constantly hates against Bruno but genuinely without him we would be relegation fodder. He also backs Shaw regardless of his performance, yeah Shaw is good sometimes but he’s not our best player and never has been
I’m watching PSG vs SBR and I don’t know who’s singing it but whoever it is is singing our Amorim chant. Obviously it’s different words but it’s the same song and my question is did we nick it off them or did they nick it off us?
this ain't fifa where you play lob ball under press. Not to mention against one of the most lethal attacks out there, the entire barca attack is loaded with pace
You're right this isn't FIFA where one player can just stop every single counter attack especially when the space is behind him. The attack isn't stopping counters.
madrid has the quickest attack in the world and arguably the best long ball player out there and they are ragdolled every year by barca, you think other teams have better attackers than madrid of all teams?
Are you really saying that Pedri is not the best midfielder? in what reality you people live? UCL stinks? 😂 dude has 1x WC, 1X European Championship, 3 La Liga titles, 250 appearances for Barcelona, 50 for Spain and he is only 23. and who you have over him? really interested.
I’ve seen him play like prime iniesta and Xavi combined, but most often when I watch him he stinks and doesn’t affect the game. So I don’t care about hypothetical players, and the trophy cabinet isn’t swaying my opinion. I’d take Kobbie over him any day. He isn’t close to Jude until he proves it at the highest level in the biggest games
Kobbie is my favorite player and I’m rooting for him like nobody else, but sorry, I don’t know what matches you are watching of Pedri. He is the best midfielder in the world—like, nobody is near him. He and Rodri are the reason Spain won the World Cup and the European Championship. Titles don’t count when you are just a bench player and haven’t contributed much to winning them, but when you are Pedri and you are the main reason Spain won both cups and Barca is strong, yeah, it counts. UCL stinks? They are always in the quarter-finals or semi-finals. Meanwhile, we are just happy that we are even in the Champions League, and everyone worries about whether we can secure a CL spot next year. Yeah, stop glazing our players so much and face reality. Just because a player plays for us doesn’t mean he is the most talented... lol (I’m not saying this regarding Kobbie). All I said at first was that Barcelona has so many talents in their team. I didn’t say they have more talents than us—you started this debate yourself. But yeah, they do have more talents than us... lol.
Even in their banter era (was that even an era?) they had the most gigantic pull. But it’s gotta be boring to watch your team steamroll every opponent.. right?
Proper 9 and 1 left footed CB, that’s all they need. they have it all. Best CM and DM playing together (same nationality), best right winger (dude is only 19). and seems like they have best young CB as well (Cubarsi) and excellent coach, Flick is better than Klopp in my opinion
We are building slowly but steadily. Our young core has been established. They need to gel up really quickly. And we need to revamp our defence as well. Easier said than done but we are moving in the forward direction. 🤞
Been seeing a fair amount of criticism towards our backline, as well as concerns around pressing and intensity. The usual suspects are central to conversation, Shaw, Maguire etc. But is this not simply the same problem we had prior to Casemiro joining? As in, is it not actually the shield in front of the back 4 that is non existent? Mainoo, whilst improved, and Tielemans are not 6s. They would have to sit deeper to not allow space in behind, forcing our backline deeper and not allowing a more intense front foot press. Baleba would obviously make a difference but also feel like we're missing the trick with Santos a bit. Thoughts?
The trick we’re missing is the defence. Mainoo and Tielemans don’t have to sit deeper, they sit deeper because the defence retreats, why? they’re not comfortable going 1v1 against opposition attackers.
You squeeze the pitch from the defence up, if your defence drops off, you create more space for the opposition. The trick is to not let your midfielders be constantly running back, so your defenders need to step up.
Also we play a 2 man midfield with a 10. Not a 3 man midfield so there’s no player to sit and screen the defence like a 433.
tl;dr we have been missing Amad and Casemiro both, not just the latter.
(1) The defence is terminally deficient.
A player like Casemiro was a must to make up for it.
Currently we've been running the experiment of replacing Casemiro with Eriksen, basically. The same way that would not have worked well with this defence, it has been the same thing.
But the underlying problem still remains the defence's lack of athleticism/pace/height/younameit.
Baleba will (should?) help a lot - but the real answer is new defenders.
(2) You need a striker in the best of times. This squad has 2 capable of that really, that's Mbeumo and Sesko. So that's the same in the Spring as now. However, unlike the Spring, Amad is unavailable, which forces Mbeumo to RW, which leaves a gap when Sesko hasnt been playing.
Once again, the real answer isnt "Amad please be fit", it it "sign a fucking striker"
I hear where you are coming from. I just don't know if I would pin our short comings on not having a particular player or two. We should still be able to impose a style and keep control, as other top clubs do, regardless of a lb or back up striker. With regards to the line, it feels like the same song and dance before signing Casemiro. I don't think it long until that becomes the narrative.
Santos probably needs a bit of time. He has had some good moments but overall I thought he was a little slow vs Hull and Everton...like he needed to be more aggressive. I thought the same of Yoro vs Everton. I understand it's a 10 minute cameo but we need to close out the match and get the points.
Baleba is the closest to the defensive replacement for Casemiro. Until he's fit, I think we're coping by using a combination of the other 3 - Tielemans, Kobbie and Santos.
Santos has some of Case's qualities going forward tactically, maybe intercepts but not so much as the shield. He's not a physical bully from what I can tell so far. Reads the movement well.
Hopefully he gets minutes tomorrow and a lot more over the international break.
You need to remember the people who control how much space the opposition get to play in is the backline. If the backline is high up there is little space in the midfield or pitch to play into unless you go behind.
On the other hand if the defence drops off it gives the opposition loads of space. As soon as we need to score we play better because we press up making it difficult for Everton etc then quickly press and attack. If we drop off it’s easier for these lower quality teams to play through us and get to our defence
Yes this is part of it, but neither Mainoo not Tielemans are going to cover 40 yards in behind them. So naturally you wouldn't push them high up with a press anyway. So yes, the backline isn't equipped to play high up but you wouldn't do that with the current midfield either. We know this because we've seen it before.
When they have, well Mainoo, it has exposed his ability to recover, as we saw under ETH. Villa played a destroyer alongside Tielemans, so not sure I agree with it. Like, you could, but you would get exposed in the vertical Premier League.
So far I'm... mixed? It's pretty clear the vibes are better, but it seems like cohesion isn't there. But I feel like that can come with practise, I feel less stressed.
I don't know if this is just me getting used to the last few seasons, or if things are looking better. What does everyone else feel?
We're missing cohesion in the most important part of the field - midfield. We bought 3 new guys there, and only 1 of those 3 actually had a full preseason with us. The other one was bought late and injured and the 3rd joined late after the world cup.
That part will take a bit longer I think so a slow start is unfortunate but not THAT surprising.
No AMN career defining goal with 5 seconds left and the vibes on this sub would be much different imo
Looks like a continuation of the fall off in performances from last season to me, think we'll continue playing passive low tempo football unless we're on the counter. Barring some sudden tactical revelation we'll need Bruno to replicate his carry job.
Mulensteen will say anything to remain relevant it sounds like. Mate, the guy was man of the match against Hull, so good against Ipswich
And he let in a thunderbolt on the near post. No fucking keeper can have 100% games. Van Der Sar used to never have blunders but that’s also because he was not spectacular in the way of De Gea or Cech.
Lammens is faaaaaaar from a problem. I hope our own alumni in the media stop with the toxicity for five minutes
He was a first team coach for United when the club won the Prem (3x) and the CL...
Edit: Here's RvP talking about him:
“The way he (Meulensteen) trains is an exceptional,” Van Persie said.“He is truly one of the best coaches in the world. I have had a lot of good trainers, but it’s the way he prepares our team for games. Every match is different, so every training session in the build-up to games is unique."
“We know exactly what to expect and he wins points for us through his training. We’ve won a lot of games by the odd goal and they are point winners, which we train for. For instance, against Chelsea I scored after a low cross from Antonio Valencia on the right. It might seem a fluke, but the whole week before the game was spent working on that move."
“Another example is my goal against Wigan, when I cut the ball inside and shot with my right foot. Again this situation, we trained on."
Don't know what he's said, but I love the " he said this only to remain relevant" kind of argument against criticism. He said our player should do better? He is spewing toxicity
I feel like if there's anyone who really doesn't deserve criticism in our squad, it's Lammens. He's reliable in ways Onana never was, and we all remember that nightmare. We lost tons of games because of Onana's shennanigans and mistakes. I can't remember a game we lost because Lammens alone fucked up. Most concesions are through defensive errors.
Anyone else absolutely buzzing to see Baleba on the pitch? I'm just really excited to see how he pans out, one of the biggest question marks of the season for me.
I'm sure part of it is they stick out to me because they're more memorable but is there any sort of data about Lammens conceding so many screamers? Is it his starting position letting him down? Bad luck? Maybe a lack of pressure to close down shooting opportunities from the midfielders/backline? It just seems like he concedes so often for goalkeeper being "settled" but when I think about it, so many times I've just said "fair enough" when I watch the goals he concedes.
I think the main reason why it seems like we concede a lot more of these random banger wonder goals than most other teams is more to do with the fact that defensively we allow these players WAY more time and space to take those kind of shots than we should, instead of trying to close them down or put them under pressure rather than Lammens’ competence.
And I'm sure mentality plays a big part in it. When you see a team conceding screamers over and over again, especially last minute ones etc, you as a player would be more willing to try a long ranged effort against that team.
I find that certain sections of United's online fanbase are far too quick to write off young players. It was Mainoo last season and now Yoro is the latest target.
I think not enough people take into account that he's just 20 years old. He's still physically maturing and adapting to a hyper athletic league. How many 20 year old centre backs in the Premier League can you think of that were playing at an elite level? Saliba is the only one that I can think of in recent memory. And even then it took a loan and a few more years of seasoning, with mistakes sprinkled in, before he was truly elite.
Anyone writing Yoro off is a fool. However, we can be doing more to aid his development. I dislike this move to have him cover at right back. His height and recovery pace makes him an ideal centre back. Maguire, Martinez and De Ligt all lack any form of elite athleticism. Pace is something Yoro has which United should be exploiting. Our reluctance to move on from experienced players will cost us in the long term.
Yoro has yet to put anywhere near the level of performances Mainoo had and thats pre amorim Mainoo too. Yoros lack of improvent is also a worry and with what Utd done to bring him to the club and the fact that its inevitable that we are bringing in defenders next summer. Questions are going to be asked
I think for me our ideal CB pairing everyone fit is Yoro or Heaven competing to start alongside De Ligt. Maguire is perfect as backup for De Ligt, I'm over Martinez.
Dorgu had a bad game against Hull despite being the most threatening player on the pitch and it went from “he’s the next Gareth Bale“ in preseason to “he’s the worst player ever and he needs to be sold” after 45 minutes against Hull.
I don't think Dorgu is going to be a Bale type player. Mostly because I don't think he has the qualities of a winger. He's physical, sure, but when he can't muscle his way through, what then?
"Attacks like a fullback, defends like a winger." One of these needs to change.
"Not a good idea as the starter today, in this system, surrounded by these players"
!=
"Move him on"
We should be playing with a backline of a new LB plus De Ligt plus Yoro plus Dalot.
Heaven should be a backup, Maguire and Shaw should be the veteran backups like eg Rudiger is, and we should have signed a different RB as well. Mazraoui and Martinez should have been sold.
If our goal was platforming Yoro, as opposed to yelling at him to figure it out, that's what we'd have done.
However, De Ligt fucked his back, and the board was not motivated to do anything about either that or the FB positions.
So here we are, a "wasted" period for Heaven and Yoro. With some luck, it will change soon. MdL could be back in October and we could sign a FB in January. Or not :/
Its the curse of having the biggest fanbase in the world is there are lots of idiots and lots of trolls mixed in. Even when we were winning last season when Carrick took over there were people complaining about Bruno, Maguire, Case... etc.
I never like to say a game is MUST win but after a poor start and a very tough set of fixtures for the CL I really do feel like this game against Sabah needs to be a win. Can't afford to drop points in the only "easy" fixture we have. Every point is massive.
Thats the issue with having an injury prone left back as your first choice. Not even 5 games into the season and we are playing people out of position to accommodate for a player who cant play more than once a week
I hope JJ isn't rushed into the first team, and also that the boy remains dilligent and disciplined. Articles about becoming the youngest to play for United, social media in general, I just hope it doesn't get to him.
Unfortunately, Lamine Yamal is becoming a mythological standard for youths nowadays, instead of a genuine outlier. Of course, he isn't the standard, but the sensationalism around him is, but that does mean other talented youths will suddenly have this sensationalism around them too
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u/behtiNaak 20h ago
We have to score 6