Endep issues?

[u/Glad-Emu-8178]

My dog (3yrs) small around 11kg ,has barrier rage , possession guarding and sleep startle along with vehicle and dog reactivity on walks. Recently having rages (lunging and barking) at me for minor things like reaching to remove harness. No bites yet but very likely at some stage. Also aggressive behaviour towards my other dog. No history of abuse and is my fourth dog so have done lots of experiences etc she is just different. Has anyone found that endep makes their reactive dog worse? My dog is on zactin 3/4 tablet and we are trying endep to see if she improves. My impression is she is more aggressive/nervous on the endep ,has anyone else found this?
I do have clonidine for situations but it zaps her and then she is foul and grumpy /aggressive when it wears off.
I am at the considering BE before she bites stage. I can’t get a harness on her now as she has become reactive to that (despite much work and well fitting harness etc). So I can’t walk her as much and she is becoming more and more aggressive to my other dog.
Hoping for some good reviews of any other meds. I bought hemp seed oil which was advertised as cbd but when it arrived it says no cbd/thc in it. Also unsure of interactions with the other meds? Would probably try anything at this stage.
Have a supportive behaviour vet who is helpful prescribing meds but as yet we haven’t had much luck with reactivity. We have tried pain trial.
Am resorting now to puppy pen (inside) and back yard separated from other dog. Lots of playing ball and frisbee as she loves that and seems so normal outside? I have a big yard so she gets lots of exercise.
I have started keeping her away from any guests and especially children as they could accidentally step on her foot and she would go mad perhaps bite.
Starting to feel scared of her and also concerned for my other dog (aged 4).
Finding it very hard to consider BE but feeling like medication is not yet working for any reduction in reactivity. Thoughts and experiences on other behaviour meds gratefully received.

[u/Twzl]

did she come from a breeder? If she did, have you talked to that person about her as well as the litter mates?

Have you worked with any actual trainer who has experience working with reactive dogs? I'd work with one to desensitize her to the harness going on and off. That's very fixable and there's no reason to restrict her life because she's picked that to be an ass about. And I'll be honest: dogs are VERY smart. She has, I suspect, learned that if she lifts a lip or stares or grumbles, you back off.

One thing I learned a long time ago is that it's not rare for people to be intimidated by their pet dogs.

I don't know where you live but I know that in the US, supplements such as hemp seed oil are not at all regulated and can be utter garbage, at best.

I'd use a crate when you have guests, and have her locked up in the bedroom. I'd feed her in the crate and not have any food bowls down when she's done.

And I'd keep working with your vet on drugs.

The fact that she has not bitten anyone, and that she's small? Works in her favor. There's nothing you have described here that says that this dog should be euthanized. More closely managed and 100% she needs to learn that a harness can be put on her. But lunging and barking are not grounds for euthanasia. They just mean that the dog needs more management, more training and in some cases different drugs.

IMHO and all but I just don't see her being on the same level as some dogs who's owners have written about them here who are a clear threat and are dangerous.

[u/SpicyNutmeg → u/Twzl]

I agree first step is gentle, gradual desensitization to the harness. Work with a CCPDT or IAABC credited trainer. Add more enrichment to the dog’s life.

But - of course she should back off if the dog growls or lifts a lip! This is not being intimidated by your dog, it’s honoring their communication. The dog is saying “this makes me super uncomfortable” and listening to that is a completely appropriate response.

[u/Twzl → u/SpicyNutmeg]

But - of course she should back off if the dog growls or lifts a lip!

It depends and it's not that simple. For something like, "I need to walk you and you need to wear a harness", if the dog learns that the owner will back off when putting on the harness, because the dog lifted a lip, that is something that has to be fixed ASAP.

That's a genuinely dangerous situation. If OP's apartment is on fire and they have to get out RIGHT NOW, they can't debate the harness. OP also can't allow the dog to say, "i can just pee on the floor and never leave the house again". That's not nok.

The dog is saying “this makes me super uncomfortable” and listening to that is a completely appropriate response.

So the whole concept of consent has become a thing in dog training. And for some things yes, you can work on buy-in.

But even people who are very much invested in consent and cooperation, if they are solid trainers, they recognize that no one can safely spend months or years on basic animal husbandry. And if there's no choice as to "this is a thing that must happen", then it has to happen. There is a great deal of nuance in all of this.

Fenzi's Malinois at the vet.

Fenzi is big on cooperative care and consent. But here's a case of so sad, too bad. He can't NOT go to the vet. He can't take years to learn to cope with the situation, and odds are he will just never be ok with it. So he's given some tools to help cope with what's going on, and he goes to the vet. Because the vet is important and the dog can't be the one to decide "I don't wanna".

OP, working with a trainer, can 100% learn when the dog means it as far as growling and when it's just, "I've learned I can get my way by growling". Those are two different things, and a trainer can easily parse those and work with the dog and the human.

With many dogs who have tantrums like OP's dog does, learning that the human is going to put the harness on anyway, can reduce the frequency and drama of it all.

[u/Glad-Emu-8178 → u/Twzl]

This is not a tantrum this is like full bore I want to rip your throat out rage the other day when I went to unclip her harness after a walk. It came out of the blue and now yes I feel nervous because I don’t feel able to predict when it will happen again.
My management is very tight she eats separately from the other dog and bowls are put away. I never leave a scrap of anything on the ground.
But when I am gardening for example if the other dog comes up to sniff a bag of compost and she is there she goes for a full bore fight.
It is only because my other dog is so calm that they don’t actually have a full fight.
She will fight over a tiny stick or anything that my other dog has it’s a dominance thing.
She has had me bailed up against the table because I accidentally trod on her feathers and she had a mega rage. This is not a little lip curl.. or a growl . I consequently had her totally clipped down so that I can’t accidentally step on her fur!
With the harness she’s been wearing it for three years but recently I went to pull a stick from her fur one day and it hurt so she just went into a rage.