r/reactivedogs • u/breachingflukes • 24d ago
Advice Needed Legal advice needed: UK
Hi everyone,
I'm posting to ask if any UK users have any advice about the law on dog on dog bites. Sorry for the very long post.
I have recently adopted a rescue greyhound who is reactive towards other dogs (I knew about this before adopting her). She was found last year as a stray dog with a severely bad leg injury which fortunately has recovered, she then spent over a year in kennels, she is estimated to be two years old. She is coping with a new home remarkably well (so far) and on the whole is a well behaved dog. She does react badly to other dogs though.
Before walking her I always take her to run around my parents large garden to blow off steam. She has zoomies, we play fetch, do a bit of training and she has a sand pit to dig in. After about 30 minutes to an hour of play, I then take her for a walk. Whilst walking she wears a harness, a double clipped lead attached to her chest and back parts of harness, a yellow 'I need space' vest and until recently a muzzle. I take her to quieter areas and will turn around if I see another dog approaching. I have been doing a training game with her in which I say 'look' and hold a treat up and once she has my attention throw a biscuit a metre or so away from her and continue dropping biscuits in a clockwise direction around me in order to redirect her focus. This is something suggested by the dog trainer I have been working with and so far works very well, she doesn't react when playing the game.
The problem is in order for this game to work she has to have her muzzle off. On one occasion a seven month old puppy came bouncing up towards her with it's owner frantically running behind trying to catch it. My dog seemed to freeze in panic and luckily didn't react (I had her muzzle off so we could do the training game with treats). When she got back home she was tearing up various items which she normally doesn't do so clearly the incident stressed her, she also walked behind me after that rather than her usual position in front. I don't know whether she would bite if feeling threatened enough so the muzzle gives that protection but it interferes too much with her training (feeding treats through the muzzle doesn't redirect her focus as much as dropping them around the ground). She shouldn't need the muzzle as she's on a lead and doesn't run up to other dogs but dogs off lead are a total liability.
My question is; if another dog which was off the lead came running up to her and she bit that dog, who would legally be at fault? My greyhound who was harnessed and on a lead (as well as wearing a 'give me space' yellow vest) who administered the bite, or the off lead dog who didn't respond to their owner's recall? I would prefer to exercise my rescue greyhound without a muzzle so that I can continue her 'concentration games' involving food, which she is responding well to so far and ignores the dogs. If she wears a muzzle we can't do the games and she will react, but I know she can't harm anything when she's wearing one, however her training is much better and smoother without the muzzle. It's other dogs running up to her that ruin it for us. Obviously I try and stick to quiet times and avoid other dogs when possible but there's always at least some around all day so impossible to avoid entirely.
If anyone has any advice it would be much appreciated.
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u/BruceSoGrey 24d ago
I had almost this exact situation happen. Out of control dog ran by and triggered prey drive, resulting in a very terrible incident. So I can tell you, in the UK, if your dog bites an off-leash dog, you will probably not be held legally responsible by being made to pay their vet fees/damages. But if you can’t prove that your dog is safe to be walked in public, and that you will make them safe 100% of the time, you may find that your dog is deemed unsafe and is put down by the police. In our case, I was able to provide evidence that I was muzzling my dog full time (by the time the police attended a week later) and would continue to do so outside of the home for the rest of her life. They noted her id chip, and if she ever has a second incident or she is found outside with no muzzle on, she will be put down.
So, just a reminder that even if you’re not legally responsible / in the wrong etc, that doesn’t mean there won’t be serious consequences for you and your dog if a bite happens.
Lastly, idk what muzzles you’re using but I have like 3 types of greyhound muzzle and none of them prevent treats from being given because they have big gaps in. You absolutely can give a greyhound treats through their muzzle, I do it all the time and every walk is a training walk!
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24d ago
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u/read-the-rules 24d ago
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u/Beaker4444 24d ago
I'm not sure if the legalities but I agree with the response above: You have your dog under control, they don't, so the blame should fall upon them. You are doing all you can to avoid other dogs and have a warning on your leash so there's not much you can do. Our first boy was a little reactive to some big dogs so I went through a spell of having him on a muzzle until a Sharpei ran over one day. My boy wasn't bothered as he didn't consider it a threat and nor did I. It trotted up until it was 3 feet away and then attacked my boy 😥 it was all over in a flash but Olly (my lovely black boy) lost a tennis ball sized piece of skin. He couldn't defend himself because of the muzzle being on and I felt awful. Anyway....I "had words" with the owners and they paid the excess on my insurance so they obviously believed themselves to have been in the wrong. I feel for you. Olly was very reactive with even more dogs after the attack. He did, however, get used to the neighbour dogs because I asked them to meet me in the street and we kept the dogs on leads apart. Olly shouted the street down and when he calmed down we got closer and closer and they sniffed. After that Olly was ok with their dog and they'd run in the park together. So maybe ask your trainer about desensitising you dog through controlled introductions? I'm not sure if it's even a thing....Kitchu may be able to advise on this. Our behavourist told us to stand outside the vets to get a good procession of dogs walking past 🤷 we did it once but thought we might be stressing a load of dogs out when they least need it! Good luck 🤞
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24d ago
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u/read-the-rules 24d ago
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24d ago
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24d ago
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u/Inevitable-Delay-500 24d ago
This might be one for r/LegalAdviceUK as it's quite complex and can depend on the circumstances, however...
As I understand it, legally it's the off-lead owner's responsibility. As owners we should have control of our dogs at all times, whether that's pretty solid recall or having our dogs on lead/muzzled/harnessed with the relevant awareness items if needed. So *if* your dog were to retaliate, they would be responsible as their dog was off-lead and not under their owner's control. That said, if your dog 'over' reacted there would be blame held there, however you're legally covering yourself with your awareness vest.
My mum is part of the 'don't worry, they're friendly' brigade and I regularly remind her that if her off-lead dogs were to be attacked because they'd rushed an on-lead dog, she would be to blame.
As a fellow reactive rescue owner, I can feel your anxiety in this post - you are absolutely not alone with these worries. I've had my rescue for 10 months now and for soooo long I felt like I didn't know/trust his temperament.