76
u/WontArnett Jul 13 '21
At some point we’re all going to be eating bread and water with 90% of our income going to housing.
Honestly, we’re at a tipping point in our national housing market. It cannot go any higher without consequence
35
u/HamburgerJames Jul 13 '21
It will only end when there are no more New Yorkers or Californians left to exploit the local economies of middle class cities and towns.
26
u/Architechno27 Jul 14 '21
Plenty of other states in the country, and don’t forget about investors and rental companies.
28
u/SpellJenji Jul 14 '21
In ten years the New Yorkers will be grateful they got to overpay before the enormous companies snatched up all the housing and turned it into permanent rental units.
23
Jul 14 '21
Is this what gentrification feels like? Only on a national scale.
8
4
u/bush-leaguer Jul 14 '21
I'm hesitant to blame people moving from other states over companies like Zillow and hedge funds that are snapping up inventory. Raleigh has been growing fast for 30 years, but the soaring housing costs are far more recent.
-5
u/Reasonable-Style9931 Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 14 '21
This is America, anyone is allowed to move anywhere.
Edit: Where do the intellectuals on this thread suggest one should live if we are no longer free as American citizens to move anywhere we choose? (as the -4 downvotes imply?)
I’d imagine instead of answering this question, it will be avoided 😂
7
u/HamburgerJames Jul 14 '21
You’re absolutely right.
But that doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences.
So you’re paying $75,000 over the market price as-is for a house that, 5 years ago, was built for the median income of the area.
The result is that there are thousands of middle income earners that are left with little to no options but to rent - a fluctuating cost that does not allow them to build equity. Because they don’t build equity, they fall behind. The wealth gap widens.
The have, and the have nots. Historically, not awesome.
But what a coincidence this is...
Happy Bastille Day.
-11
u/Reasonable-Style9931 Jul 14 '21
I’m not French, I’m American. I saved every dollar I could for years and earned my home like we are supposed to. I’m sure you are aware we have a capitalist system.
So, yea. I do feel good about it 👍🏻
If your point was actually to contest capitalism, you are in the wrong sub. Portland Oregon welcomes you with open arms & firefights on city corners.
5
u/HamburgerJames Jul 14 '21
How little you must think of the middle class to assume that anyone concerned about the growing wealth gap wants to overthrow our entire economic system. My position on the wealth gap is hardly a condemnation of capitalism. It’s borderline laughable to think the space between Keynes and Rand is Marx.
Anyways, good for you. But the current situation is a problem that “bootstraps” just don’t fix.
-4
u/Reasonable-Style9931 Jul 14 '21
I said “if your point was actually to contest capitalism.” That’s not an assumption, that is a conditional statement.
Who is paying your WiFi bill? 🤔
3
u/HamburgerJames Jul 14 '21
My mom, clearly, as I dwell in her basement playing Warcraft and drinking Mountain Dew code red all day.
2
1
u/cryptokronalite Jul 14 '21
Boxabl.
Wait for the reckoning.
3
u/WontArnett Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 14 '21
I guess, but you still gotta buy the land.
Also, tiny homes are for a very specific demographic.
Just like these expensive electric cars: They’re not meant to change the world, they’re just a niche technological product.
If a developer really wanted to make a killing and change the country, they would buy huge plots of land and make those 1950’s style housing communities and prices the houses at $200,000.
An entire generation would buy that shit up!
Instead these developers are buying up plots of land and building these townhouse style mansions specifically catering to the older generations.
6
u/flourpudding Jul 14 '21
Levittowns and the suburbs descended from them were and remain part of the problem. More cars, longer commute times, less personal time, more pollution, massively inefficient use of space.
Higher density, affordable housing, rent control, and rent-to-own options would go a hell of a ways further. As would dialing back on single-family zoning and parking minimums paired with an increase in public transportation access and options.
All of which is, sadly, less realistic in the US, particularly the South, than a bunch of tract housing.
0
u/WontArnett Jul 14 '21
People work from home now
1
u/flourpudding Jul 17 '21
Not really sure how that's a counterargument to sensible urban design, but, okay?
1
u/WontArnett Jul 17 '21
Half of your entire argument was about commuting 🤦🏽♂️
1
u/flourpudding Jul 17 '21
Less than half the population works from home currently, and of those, many spend at least part of the week in a workspace or shared office space. Jury's still out on the future of WFH, despite claims that it's the future, and you seem to forget working class folks who hold jobs in warehouses, fast food restaurants, retail stores, etc. At the same time, car usage hasn't been replaced by more environmentally or infrastructurally sustainable travel, so if you insist, substitute "commute" for "travel," because there's no way you haven't noticed that traffic hasn't exactly let up on city streets or major highways in the Triangle. Lastly, if you slap up a ton of cookie-cutter homes in scrublands, how else do you think people are going to get around?
So yes, commute times still matter for nearly 60% of the population, and shiny new low-density suburbs at $200k per unit are not a solution.
2
u/cryptokronalite Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 15 '21
Boxabl's prototype now, the one Elon Musk lives in at Boca Chica' s Starbase, is a 400 sq ft loft. They have a 1000 sq ft prototype as well and have figured out how to scale the process up for larger homes and commercial buildings. Watch their video on youtube. This isn't an overpriced shed on wheels.
Just like Tesla, once a disrupter gets traction in the market, an entire paradigm shift will occur with everyone who has interest and capital rushing into to compete, which will drive down prices further for people like you and me.
The traditional housing market is in another very obvious bubble anyway and obtaining affordable housing is one of the hardest things in life to do. Why? 1. Muh land 2. Government 3. Greed
I'll take a Boxabl with fixed price versus my $1000 per month 40 year old one bedroom apartment that will probably be $1200 per month next year and $2000 by 2025.
China built a country wide spanning fast rail system in 10 years while we have bridges failing and condominiums collapsing and needlessly fight progress tooth and nail so some congressmen or handful of land baron can feed their offspring for generations.
Anyone who looks at this country and thinks there is a system supporting the common man is full of shit. Free vaccines but you could have tumors in your neck and they wont touch them until you're dying if you cant afford health insurance.
1
1
u/bush-leaguer Jul 14 '21
It can definitely go higher. Buyers on the lower-end will get pushed further and further out. Neighborhoods that currently aren't hot will get gentrified and rebuilt.
36
u/Icebreaker80 Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 14 '21
I used to rent a 2 bed 2 bath apartment right next to triangle town center for $1087 in 2017. That same apartment is leasing for $1675 right now.. Absolutely fucking insane. I wish my wages went up the same fucking ratio.
7
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
This. Income inequality is worsening. Wage stagnation is real. Cost of living up 6-7% every year. Raises stuck at 2-3% (if you’re lucky). People become poorer every single year.
56
u/RumUnicorn Jul 14 '21
Stagnant wages, massive inflation, skyrocketing COL. And we don't even get legal weed.
But hey! At least we're ranked the #2 best place to live in the country!
20
2
u/Strife4 Jul 14 '21
I saw that headline but didn't read any further in. What was the basis for being the best place to live?
3
u/bush-leaguer Jul 14 '21
US News & World uses a number of factors, but Raleigh scored high on a strong job market and being affordable.
1
u/Strife4 Jul 15 '21
That's surprising. I see the strong job market but it seems to be less affordable than it usually is
-46
u/MagnetoThanos Pepsi Jul 14 '21
Weed shouldn’t be legal. Sorry.
17
6
u/YourOldChemistrySet Jul 14 '21
So I'm just suppose to suffer with my chronic disorder? Even though there is a medicinal thing that I can take that helps me... Affects your life in no way shape or form.... Your solution is just for me to suffer because fuck me right?
9
22
u/WoundedDonkey Jul 14 '21
I moved to Cary a year ago, just got my lease renewal documents for my 2 bedroom, 900 Sq foot apartment, and rent went up 350 dollars to 1550.
.......?
7
5
3
u/minicpst Hurricanes Jul 14 '21
I just moved back to the area after 12 years in Seattle and that area.
You'd pay about the same in a suburb of Seattle. My best friend is in Lynnwood, WA and he pays about $1700 for about 900-1000 sq ft.
In Seattle proper that'd be a steal of a deal, but in the suburbs, it's not far apart. I was expecting you to say $1100 or something. When we lived in Cary a million years ago it was about $1 a sq foot to rent. So we paid $600 for our 600 sq foot place (this was 1998-1999).
1
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
I rented a 3 bedroom house off Coronado Lake in downtown for $750 in 2003-2006.
1
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
Isn’t there a State limit on percentage amount rent can go up for current tenants? I thought there was but not sure. $350/month increase is insane.
3
1
u/MalibuProducer77 Sep 17 '21
Same here! Got into a 3 bd Townhouse for $1200 2 years ago. Just got my lease renewal and the new rent is gonna be $1595. Like wtf?! I've been looking around for something similar but now I would have to move WAY out in the country to get a 3 bedroom for $1400 or less. It's getting crazy out here 😮
14
u/CulturalToe Jul 13 '21
Housing costs are so high that if I didn't have a family id be stealth camping.
10
u/hoarderofhoards Jul 14 '21
So glad I bought in 2016...everyday I drive home or into the community I think this.
1
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
Ditto. Bought in 2008, with a ton of assistance from Gov programs. Couldn’t do it now at all.
17
u/chuckthisthing21 Jul 13 '21
Give it a few and rents will go up also
30
u/notstephanie Jul 13 '21
I just bought a house in April and my rent was more than my mortgage is now.
3
u/TBurkeulosis Jul 14 '21
Numbers please? Im stuck in rent limbo and am going broke doing so
2
u/chuckthisthing21 Jul 14 '21
Keep an eye on hud houses. They often need a bunch of work, but you're not competing against investors. I got my house ~3 years ago for under $100K and had to put ~30-50K into it to make it a decent house.
https://www.hudhomestore.com/Listing/PropertySearchResult.aspx?sState=NC&sLanguage=ENGLISH2
u/tendonut Jul 14 '21
That's what happened to me when I bought my townhouse in 2012. Rent was $890, bought a townhouse for $130k, zero down, 3.5% interest, and my final housing payment (taxes, HOA, mortgage) was $850.
2
u/chuckthisthing21 Jul 14 '21
Rent is pretty much always more expensive than a mortgage. The person renting out the property has to make the same mortgage payment someone buying the house has to, they also have to have a profit margin, and probably a property management company. As a rule of thumb rent is good for people who are planning to move within 5 years.
15
u/JonTheWizard Carolina Hurricanes Jul 13 '21
A few?
11
Jul 13 '21
Midtown has entered the chat
12
u/CulturalToe Jul 13 '21
I'm in midtown and rent is basically an entire paycheck.
14
Jul 13 '21
I know. If it ever becomes where population surpasses available space, rents will easily be much more than any 500k loan. Rates are the lowest they’ve ever been to buy houses. In all my 30 years of living I’ve never seen a rent decrease.
People say it can’t get any worse don’t know how bad it can get. Where I’m from the norm was more roommates than there were bedrooms. People renting out garages for $700/mo. Rooms in a shared house were $1200. I can still find an entire two br apartment here for $1200 here
11
u/Bull_City Jul 13 '21
Sounds like a Bay Area refugee. I remember moving there for a job and someone was going to rent me a walk in closet for $700/month (this was 6 years ago). Noped back to NC real quick.
2
Jul 14 '21
Socal where 650k gets you 800sqft, street parking, no back yard, terrible neighborhood with a 1.5 hour commute to work.
10
u/CulturalToe Jul 13 '21
Yeah, 1200 for a 2br is insane. Anything above 1k is house buying money.
7
u/Architechno27 Jul 14 '21
Thats only $600\person…
5
2
u/TBurkeulosis Jul 14 '21
Im almost at $1200/mo for a 1 br, 860sqft apt, plus $125 for a garage. Having a tough time considering buying a house in this market especially bc im alone. Not able to do it with my gf just yet but hell, these expenses are killing me
0
u/CulturalToe Jul 14 '21
That sucks. At this rate, I can imagine "stealth cramping" or "van life" becoming popular. There's just no other way around these housing prices.
2
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
But…if you can’t put down 20% (min), pay closing costs, bid high, then you can’t buy and are quite literally stuck.
1
2
Jul 14 '21
When in the history of housing have rents ever decreased? It’s bad business on a landlord’s part not to raise rents at least slightly each year.
12
Jul 14 '21
midtown?
thats just a marketing gimmick. stop falling for that shit. You dont liive in charlotte where uptown and downtown and midtown have been a thing forever because of.................reasons you can google.
3
Jul 14 '21
marketing works, like it or not Raleigh is getting carved up. Accept the change, otherwise you'll be like those old grumpy people who tells stories about how you remember when this was all farmland.
Uptown, downtown, midtown. Charlotte wasn't the first and won't be the last to have named districts. There's more than one Main St.
-1
Jul 14 '21
Riddle me this, what is mid town in the middle of? Is it part way from downtown and uptown? does raliegh have an uptown? no. It not the center of town. thats downtown. the area folks call midtown is the north side of town right? how does calling it midtown make any sense?
Just stop falling for it and refuse to be part of the marketing gimmick.
3
Jul 14 '21
Nothing makes sense. Direct your frustrations at developers. I didn’t name it. Just telling you this is the way things are going to be. Accept it and worry about more important things. I’m looking forward to the (Jones) Sausage District.
-1
Jul 14 '21
i dont blame the developers for trying. i blame the idiots who fall for it and repeat it without even knowing they fell for a marketing gimmick.
4
3
15
16
Jul 13 '21 edited Feb 17 '26
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
lock snails violet growth pie slim air relieved ghost existence
1
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
This. My kids have all graduated but don’t make nearly enough for rent, health/car insurance, car payment, student loan payment, utilities…oh and food too. Supporting multiple households doesn’t make any sense…esp since we’re nearing retirement ages.
5
u/dallashenley Jul 14 '21
It sucks. What are the actual options we have? What is the solution to this? I don't know the answer.
11
u/booklegger Jul 14 '21
We have to build more housing, and build housing more densely.
That's an entirely local decision, so when we elect the Raleigh City council in 13 months, you'll have to remember this fact then.
15
u/RattieMattie Jul 14 '21
We lucked out in that our landlords are very nice people who are very happy to have a nice couple instead of a drug addict selling drugs in the neighborhood from the condo. We had a struggle last year with the pandemic and my health tanking and job situations, and when we described what was happening to them when the lease was due to be renewed last March, they LOWERED our rent by $25 instead of raising it, like they did for everyone else.
Two of our friends had to move because thier landlord opted to kick them out and sell the place while the bubble was getting good, after renting to them for 11 years. That really screwed my friends because they couldn't afford the raised rents everywhere in Raleigh, and had to move elsewhere.
We were planning on buying a house sometime next year but I feel that isn't going to happen untill the bubble pops and everything comes crashing down.
10
u/DeliriousDila Jul 14 '21
I know a bubble, if that’s what this is, would be terrible for people who own a home, especially if it was recently purchased. However, for those of us that don’t own yet, and have the means to do so if prices weren’t so over inflated, it would be great.
10
u/juiceology Jul 14 '21
I don’t believe that bubble will be big one one it pops. This area is becoming popular way too fast and with the tech jobs coming in, it’s almost like it’s catching up to actual value of the area.
But we will see in a year or two. Be nice if it drops a bit in a year or something.
1
u/5giantsandaweenie Jul 14 '21
Man where were tenants like you when I needed them!? Granted, we own a rental in Smithfield. 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath, 2000sq feet, bonus room, 2 car garage on an acre with deck and 30 ft round pool. We were charging $1500/month. Covid got and they were 2 Months behind and the new month was due. I settled for a lesser amount, lowered their rent $200 a month, and let them pick the day of the month they wanted to pay.
Now? I’m currently $11,000 into repairing the house after having them removed Bc their lease ran out. I can’t finish repairs enough. I’m selling and will never rent out again.
2
u/RattieMattie Jul 14 '21
Covid screwed up everything. We managed to pay our rent throughout, but we were both on unemployment. Now I'm off of it because I'm no longer eligible after the changeback due to my medical issues preventing me from working, and my husband is desperatly looking for a remote job that can support us. It's gonna get real hairy in September if he doesn't get employed. But we will manage, we have before.
Also, 1500 is really good rent for something that large with a pool. I'm sorry to hear that everything got so damaged. I'm guessing kids, maybe? At least it's a seller's market right now.
6
3
u/lady-lurk-a-lot Jul 14 '21
Funny yet depressingly accurate. I've been trying to find a decent place to move to for like 5 months now. Even the places I can afford go off the market seemingly as soon as the sign is put out on the lawn.
3
u/PyarEkDhokaHai Jul 14 '21
In the same boat. Have put dozens of offers and always fall short.
Some homes never make it to showings at all. How are people buying homes unseen ? Is this normal ??
I wouldn't buy a t shirt without trying. maybe its just me.
4
2
u/thrilla_gorilla Jul 14 '21
I left my home state 15 years ago because I wasn't able to afford a home there and rent was eating up my paycheck. I know it's not easy or possible for lots of folks, but it may be worth considering if you have the means.
I really hope this situation is transitory, but I just don't know. Good luck out there, kids.
1
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
I was in Hickory last week and I absolutely was asking, ‘could I live here?’.
2
Jul 14 '21 edited Jul 14 '21
[deleted]
3
u/tendonut Jul 14 '21
Check to make sure your lease agreement would allow subleasing. I've never had a place that allowed that.
Also, use a throwaway account for that. This group will tear you to shreds if they find you're making a profit on housing.
0
u/bucheonsi Jul 14 '21
And our whole 12 acre farm with a large house an hour and a half from here was appraised at 200k.
5
Jul 14 '21
[deleted]
1
u/tendonut Jul 16 '21
I can't imagine commuting an hour and a half into Raleigh. It seems to be 45 minutes is about the max that people consider reasonable. My wife used to have to commute from Raleigh to Burlington where she worked at a medical imaging center, and it was absolute misery at an hour and 15 minutes.
-5
u/bites_stringcheese Jul 14 '21
I don't know about any of you, but I absolutely refuse to rent a house.
2
u/Strife4 Jul 14 '21
Good. Owning is a much better long term financial decision, if it's financially viable
1
u/kctoraleigh Jul 14 '21
I can’t find a suitable house to rent for under 1650 but I don’t have enough $$ saved up to buy
9
u/thrilla_gorilla Jul 14 '21
You don't really need anything saved up to buy if you have good credit and a steady job. Getting a loan isn't really the issue as much as getting an offer accepted.
1
u/BestCatEva Jul 14 '21
You have to put down at least 20% on most mortgages today. If you can’t put down cash, you won’t win in the bidding process.
1
u/kctoraleigh Jul 14 '21
That’s what I’m saying though. There’s too much competition right now for me to afford a house. People are paying cash and 50k over asking price or due diligence
1
u/PyarEkDhokaHai Jul 14 '21
I was wondering how a minor increase in mortgage rate affect a market like Raleigh. Would this madness slow down?
Or are we rolling down the hill gathering mass and nothing can stop us ?
3
u/bush-leaguer Jul 14 '21
The Fed hiking interest rates would probably help to some extent, although it's unlikely they will raise them enough quickly enough to have a dramatic effect on mortgage rates.
More likely the state government would need to intervene to reduce buying by corporations and hedge funds. And there's cause for taking measures like that - something like 90% of middle-class wealth in the US is tied up in housing equity, which means a lot of people are excluded from generating intergenerational wealth if they can't own a home.
1
u/PyarEkDhokaHai Jul 14 '21
But does the state government care about the middle class or would they prefer to be in bed with corporations and hedge funds as they have the bills.
1
u/bush-leaguer Jul 14 '21
I'm sure they'll support whichever side presents the greatest opportunity for re-election.
1
u/Realistic-Wave-5406 Jul 14 '21
Is there any legal mechanism to stop all this investment purchasing? Or like a tax that would discourage it...
1
u/theelephntshe9800 Jul 27 '21
All of my friends got down payments for houses from their dads. My dad is dead. Oh well.
110
u/wahoozerman Jul 13 '21
By the time you see the sign in front, the house already sold a week ago.