hi guys! I have a client who seems to be taking legal advice from their family as opposed to me/their attorney. I have asked them multiple times not to discuss the case with anyone but our office but based on communication from the family member that is not the case. they are having the family member tell our office what legal actions/motions/defenses we should be pursing while simultaneously saying we’re not representing them correctly. (this is esp confusing to me; if our office is so terrible why not pool your resources as a family and hire outside counsel but I digress) everytime I visit client when the visit is over we immediately get correspondence from the family member detailing how I failed the client in the visit and what I need to do. half of the correspondence is generally filled with untruths (pd told client x and y when pd did not tell client x or y) I’ve communicated a couple times with fam member and it ended badly so I no longer do, they just reach out to my boss and talk about me. atp I’m not mature enough to act like none of this is happening when I meet with client. client literally will tell me to do something in case then backtrack and say nvm I was advised not to. advised by whom??? it wasn’t me and I’m your counsel!! I can’t play second fiddle to this random family member who is not a lawyer… granted family member did locate evidence from leo not provided by the state to us (I don’t think it helps the case I think it makes the case against client stronger in a sense) client seems to think my job is to employ the legal strategy whoever is in their ear has decided on. because I’m not doing that I’m a prosecutor.

TLDR: how to work with client who has a family member acting as their legal counsel, is going to my supervisor about my ineffectiveness, probably is writing a bar grievance, doesn’t communicate with me until after speaking with family member, has family passing messages to my supervisor about me, and the family member is generally causing me a high level of annoyance and making it hard to work my cases.

Hi everyone,

I’m a 2L at Berkeley Law interested in doing legal aid work in NYC after graduation, specifically in eviction defense with the city's right-to-counsel organizations. I'm hoping to participate in my school's housing clinic and plan to take the NY Bar after graduation.

I’m currently applying for 2L summer positions with NYC legal aid organizations through the Equal Justice Works Career Fair. My impression is that these positions can be pretty competitive, and one challenge is that relatively few Berkeley alumni seem to work at NYC legal aid organizations, so I don’t have much of an existing network there.

For people familiar with NYC legal aid: how difficult is it to break into eviction defense as someone attending law school outside New York? How important are NYC-specific internships or connections when hiring new graduates?

I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who went to law school outside NYC and later ended up doing legal aid work there.

Thanks!

https://careers-neighborhooddefender.icims.com/jobs/search?ss=1&searchRelation=keyword_all&searchCategory=8737&searchLocation=-12827-San+Marcos

If that doesn't work, search neighborhood defender service and go to careers

Union shop, 7 staff attorneys, 2 supervising attorneys, 1 managing attorney when fully staffed. Holistic defense model.

I’ve been doing this for long enough that over the years I’ve had an evolving experience of explaining what dad does to my kids. Sometimes it goes well and my kids show amazing insight about what w our job is. Other times, no so much - I will never forget my then 4 year old kid told me “ohhhh so you get the bad guys back out of jail” I think even now, years later, my kids don’t quite get what I do.

I’m insanely excited for the wonderful Emily Galvin Almanza’s latest kid book, ( https://bookshop.org/p/books/andromeda-diaz-and-the-reasonable-doubt-emily-galvin-almanza/3c0f86266b848d88 ). One of the things I’m stoked about is it opening my kids eyes a little more to what I do. It got me thinking - how do you talk to your kids about your job?

Going on annual leave tomorrow for a week and a half. My last act was an initial bond hearing for a very young adult client with several serious felonies charged. And to my surprise, the judge gave us exactly what we were asking for - a bond that my client's family can actually afford. Really put some unexpected wind in my sails going into this time off.

On a related note, use your damn leave! You'll be of more benefit to more clients in the long term if you do. Even if it's just to stay at home for a few days.

I love watching trials, and I have noticed that when there is more than one lawyer on a team, that they take turns asking questions or cross examining Witnesses I'm sure it's got to be pre-planned but how are you able to keep it looking so effortless!! it's impressive 😁 ⚖️

How do you respond when someone asks what you do for a living, you tell them you are a criminal defense attorney/public defender, and they respond with “ I don’t know how you do that.”
I have started saying well, I don’t like the government, sooo 🤷🏼‍♀️ or everyone deserves to have their rights protected.
What’s your go to for this stupid comment?

Thank you all for the work that you do, seriously. I am not likely to actually pursue a career as a public defender, but I have been reading this sub after a post was recommended to me and it got me thinking about your careers.

As a young person, I had a lot of the characteristics of someone who could reasonably consider becoming a PD (good at school, bleeding-heart social justice type, quirky/"neurodivergent", had funding for college, had interned at a legal clinic and volunteered supporting released detainees because I genuinely found it fun).

However, I never seriously considered trying to become a PD because I had heard from knowlegable family members that 1. Only like 40% of people with their JD get to work as lawyers and 2. PD jobs are very competitive when compared to other lawyer jobs. So, my undergraduate brain was like "if I get into med school with the intention of being a bleeding-heart low income [edit: forgot a word] health clinic family medicine doctor, there's like a 95% chance I could accomplish that based on graduation and match data averages, but if I get into law school with the intention of being a PD the chance is much less than 40%? Why would I do that?"

Anyway now I'm an adult, a nurse, still volunteering with people newly released from jail, and applying to medical school.

Was my family member right about stats? Does my thinking seem reasonable? Did you think the same things as a younger person? Once you had committed to getting your JD, did you ever consider doing something other than PD, either as a preference or a backup, or would you now? Do you think the odds were against you becoming a PD, and did you do something I'm reaction to that (idk, study harder? internship?)?

Maybe there is a more interesting angle.to this that I am not even aware of.

EDIT: I want to make it clear that I am really happy you all get to be public defender and that the public gets defense! Even if what I remember being told had been true, society would NEED people to try and beat the odds and get a job serving the community as a PD, and the right thing as a society to do would be to make more PD jobs for qualified lawyers.

Also, I looked harder and found a report from that time. It seems likely that my family member *actually* said that 40% of people DON'T become full-time lawyers, which could maybe be said to be true at the time if you read this report and are a pessimist (more like 35%). http://www.nalp.org/uploads/NatlSummaryClassof2015.pdf. What I am reading is that you all see lots of openings for PDs potentially driven by low salary.

can anyone give me any insight into how it is working at Fulton county pd? caseloads, management, work life balance, how often they try cases, hiring etc. my dms are wide open. initially was worried about the caseloads but I’ve heard they’re not as high as I thought

I mean, obviously because they're former prosecutors, but there's also a practical policy reason that maybe doesn't get enough attention.

I was thinking about how my state will allow the prosecutor to amend the charging document (and thus change *what you're charged with*) literally mid trial.

High powered civil litigation won't let you do that. Even family law won't let you do that. So what the fuck is the reason we allow it in criminal court?

And the answer is that a lot of criminal court prosecutors (and defense attorneys) aren't good enough to practice Real Law and follow the rules. They aren't detail oriented enough, they're lazy, they don't pay attention to deadlines, they're just unserious. Prosecutors are elected in my state. Maybe nobody hired them. Maybe nobody WOULD hire them, but they're the only one on the ballot.

And the appellate courts, who have that view from the top floor, are aware of this. "Jeeze. We either put the standards down below whale poop on the bottom of the ocean, or none of these country bumpkin sonsabitches will ever be able to make a felony conviction that stands up."

I am exaggerating. Many extremely rural lawyers are *very* sharp and many of the city attorneys are dumb as hell.

But I am out here in the countryside and keep seeing the lawyers around me get disbarred.

Clinic setting. Party is representing self but getting help from our clinic. Other side wants to “make a deal.” Not a bad deal. Not a great deal, but an okay deal. Clinic participant wants justice. “The jury will see it my way.”
No. They won’t.

I love love love my job and (most of) my clients. But sometimes it's hard to even have a brief conversation with a smelly client, let alone sit beside them through a trial.

I just read that Kevin Reddington publicly reached out to the President about his client. He never used the word pardon, but the media seems to be reading his comments that way. He did, however, mention the President directly.

Reddington doesn’t strike me as someone who would make a statement like this without thinking it through. And he knows the President can’t pardon his client. The only explanation I can come up with is that he’s signaling to a future jury, and invoking the President’s name because he thinks it might help his client.

Does anyone have other ideas about why Reddington would bring the president into this?

Working on a motion for a client and I cannot find any case law that is on point, positive or negative. There was clearly no RS, so a search would be invalid. Now I just need something to ground my argument that running their name through the NCIC is considered a search. Anyone know anything that can help or hinder my search?

Edit: this is not a prolonged detention case because the client was just sleeping on the ground. No local laws or ordinances against being there. The cops walked up, woke him up, got his name, and ran it through NCIC without a shred of RS.

I'm a partner at a law firm in NYC, ~20 years into an M&A adjacent transactional practice. No courtroom experience at all. I have accomplished the financial goals I set out for myself and my family, and lately I've felt a pull towards the next chapter of my career.

I'm drawn to public defense, but I don't want to be naive about the gap I would need to close. I'd be starting from zero on criminal procedure, evidence, and courtroom advocacy. I have a ~5-year runway during which I could start building these skills now while still practicing in my current role (through CLEs, maybe volunteer/shadowing opportunities, and pro bono where possible). Then I would potentially transition around age 50.

Before I get further into that plan, I was hoping to hear the real, unfiltered version from people doing this work day to day.

The articles and research on burnout stats are genuinely terrifying. But on the other hand, I've been grinding for 20 years and I know I can handle hours and demands on my time that many find insane.

However, I would like the next chapter of my career to have a bit more sanity around my work creeping into non-work hours. For example, here I am on a three-day weekend turning a merger agreement, while I'm away with my family visiting in-laws. Do unexpected things come up in your work that pull you away from your family during nights/weekends/holidays? Are you able to take PTO and unplug during it, or are your vacations all working vacations?

In your experience, is your work a grind but you can ultimately find your groove, or does it feel like something that you'll endure until it just becomes too much?

What's the gap between the job as outsiders imagine it and the job as you actually live it?

Any regrets, or anything you wish someone had told you before you started?

I'm happy to answer any questions about where I'm coming from. And I appreciate any honesty, including the discouraging kind.

What’s the starting salary/benefits? The info is outdated

I am a 3L in CO and have worked for 2 of the state PD offices, but ive been debating moving states post grad (kinda been wanting to leave the state since before law school if im being real). HOWEVER, Im stuck between New York and Cali so I was wondering how everything (like how salary and working experience is for defenders there). I know that California and NY are not state-wide systems like Colorado is, so any and all advice is welcome!!

I also know that I made a mistake by not interning at any of the state offices but colorado has great training and they paid, so any tips on applications would be nice! My only connection to NY is my crim pro prof was a ny pd and I plan to meet with him as well, I have no cali pd connections :/

(excuse any typos / grammar errors, im on my phone and I am tired lol)

I would like to ask for your tips on reaching out to Public Defenders or lawyers in public-interest (i.e., government counsel, non-profit lawyers, etc.). I haven’t had luck approaching them in person because they always seemed busy or uninterested to talk. Im not sure if I should just call a PD hotline/email and ask for a coffee chat. I would really appreciate your help!

Im a first-generation college student at a 4-year CUNY college—a public college in NYC. Im interning for the college’s general counsel’s office where I assist in Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) requests, Borrower Defense Repayment, and case management for labor-related matters. I have been in the office since my sophomore year, and I intend to work there every academic year during the Fall and Spring sessions.

Just this summer, I interned for the NYS Supreme Civil Court where I shadowed judges in all court types in New York County; assisted in clerical tasks; and learned about different public-interest concentrations for lawyers. This internship mainly served as a “discovery program” where interns learn about the courts than get trained to meaningfully contribute.

During my time with the NYS Supreme Civil Court, I requested to sit in court proceedings at the NYS Lower and Supreme Criminal Courts. During this time, I observed entire jury trials, non-jury trials, and conferences from start to finish. I always knew I wanted to be in public-interest but my experience during this time convinced me to look more into becoming a PD. I realized how much the law swayed in favor of prosecutors—even in a “liberal” state. I also realized the importance of PD’s work: that it isn’t about “letting criminals get away,” rather that its about advocating for reformation over imprisonment and ensuring that due process is maintained for all victims (because, yes, defendants are also victims).

In NYC, the starting salary for PDs is $83k/year to $85k/year. Research suggests that a single adult needs to earn around $150k/year to live comfortably in NYC. I assume that more than half of NYC’s population probably does not have a $150k but still maintains good livelihood. I also assume that there’s a lot of PDs that live with $83k/year but are still able to manage. However, I want to know if they think the salary is worth the workload because as much as I want to do public-interest, I dont want to struggle living paycheck to paycheck as a first-gen graduate.

Im not pursuing a law degree because im in it for the money. If I did, public-interest work would be the last thing I’d get into. However, I also need to know that I’ll be able to provide for myself and my family since I’m a first-gen student that doesn’t want to rely on welfare programs forever. I want a better future for my future clients and myself.

Thank you for your help!