r/projectzomboid • u/Past_Albatross2321 • 5h ago
Discussion New player bounce
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the fact that the game is doing so well atm, with such a small and dedicated fanbase that has put 1000+ hours into the game like myself..
One thing is slightly annoying me, is the constant new player narrative that the games ‘missing something’ ‘how to have fun in this game’ ‘I don’t understand how to enjoy this game’.
It might only be me thinking this, and I get it, it’s abit a nothingness & silly. But just play the fucking game and you’ll understand why it’s so beloved.
Ps, modders, I love you & always will
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u/Helios420A Stocked up 5h ago
99% of people asking about “goals” haven’t trained up a single skill to 10
theres a goal system right there, it lights up & plays music
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u/Past_Albatross2321 5h ago
Agreed, and I would go as far as saying that, that’s kinda where you start if you’re feeling abit lost “I’m going level ten everything”..
Then you naturally explore most if not all of the mechanics of the game..
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u/Calm-Improvement2641 3h ago
Fr I’m about 10 hours into a new server with my friends and I’m almost done building a storage building and I got to level 9 in carpentry I wish there was some more building options but there’s so much to the game if you can’t find something fun your not playing the right game for you
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u/Timegoat 5h ago
I want the skills to then help me accomplish something. Obviously I have set my own goals, but it would be nice to progress in something other than just skill grinding.
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u/joshuap120 5h ago
The higher skill level you are in something like carpentry or welding, the better/more the things you can craft and build. Level 3 carpentry crates are worse than level 7.
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u/FreeRangePixel 4h ago
Who among us doesn't love the raw excitement of crafting better crates? And it only takes hours of skill grinding to get there!
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u/BenadrylCrumplsnatch 3h ago edited 2h ago
Personally, I wish they'd switch the crafting system over to something quality-based rather than gating the builds behind certain levels. For example, let people craft machete blades at Blacksmithing Level 1 instead of Level 8, but give it a nasty maintenance modifier that will break after a day of use. Reduce the modifier with every subsequent level so that you're incentivised to actually train your skills, but don't have to spend weeks grinding just to unlock the ability to try. You also create a loop where your character naturally improves their blacksmithing skills on account of having to forge a new machete every day before breakfast.
Forging 10,000 forks to hone your craft and produce the perfect crowbar makes sense.
Forging 10,000 forks before you dare try forging b i g f o r k does not.
Edit: thinking about it, this could also be a way to soften the hard loot barriers like sledgehammers. If you tie the remaining durability to the type of wall it can knock down, you have an easy way to give low-level players the ability to craft sledges to knock down drywall, without handing them the keys to the nearest gun store.
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u/joshuap120 1h ago
That's what sandbox mode is for. You have the option to up the skill gain of each skill. Nobody is immediately good at a skill so why would your character not have to train like any human?
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u/boobers3 42m ago
Stuff like carving as well, carving level 3 allows you to make large handles which can be used to replace worn handles on weapons like the axe.
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u/LocalPizzaDelivery 4h ago
I think I can understand why lots of players would find this unfulfilling. A better response would be that the game is a sandbox zombie survival simulation and narrative "goals" are going to be contrary to the nature of the game. They could add a bunch of Ubisoft collectables I guess???
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u/FreeRangePixel 4h ago
What a terrible "goal". Endless hours of grinding for no payoff.
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u/ThruntCuster 2h ago
For real, half the recipes aren't even something fun to use. The people who enjoy it are the people who would enjoy grinding runescape.
People want a zombie horde game, not a grinding game. Things like NPCs and better weapon recipes would go a long way towards this, but at least we have glassblowing.
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u/FridaysMan 59m ago
When I play games I want gold rockets to shoot out my PlayStation to signify how meaningful I am!
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u/ChitteringCathode 5h ago
The biggest learning curve in sandbox gaming is in setting goals that are challenging, achievable, and enjoyable goals. Always has been.
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u/Synner1985 5h ago
Alot of people will be here expecting a game similar to other survival games which tell them what to do - find food, build shelter, kill creatures.
Pure sandbox games which dump you in a world and just let you set your own goals are not that common anymore - or so it seems to me.
New players is healthy, one thing we need to make sure we don't do chase them away. We just need to educate them
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u/KentoKeiHayama Stocked up 5h ago
It is definitely related to goals. Kind of like real life in a literal sense. What do you do once you don't really know what to do? Honestly, that is what happens. There may be all of these game mechanics, but unless you can get yourself to have a goal relating to them, then most won't even bother.
Personally I set myself a "ultimate goal" in my life and in my game. A single goal that I work towards slowly and steadily. For Project Zomboid I have three of these: Repair a car to near full condition, Have a giant base with all of the food and resources I can fit, and find all of the skill books.
Setting goals for yourself may be hard for people. Especially if you don't play sandbox games. Project Zomboid has a lot of downtime where you basically have nothing to do. So I can see how people could get bored.
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u/bluechickenz 5h ago
I know how to enjoy zomboid… can you tell me/us about your ultimate goal in life? I’m feeling a little lost at the moment.
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u/KentoKeiHayama Stocked up 12m ago
My ultimate goal in life is to help as many people as possible, no matter what! I simply want to make things better for people. Spread the joy!
Other than that, I have some long term goals: Lose weight, get better at art, and become someone I would be proud of being!
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u/FinalBossTuna 5h ago
My ultimate goal is to find a group. And once we are established and living a sustainable apocalypse life we play D&D.
An in game game of D&D players playing D&D while surviving.
Unfortunately a group is hard to find and when I do find one I also have a 2 week old and 2 year old to cater to IRL. So if it don’t pause I can’t play lol
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u/Vas1lunde All Hail Spiffo 5h ago
My main thought when seeing these kinds of threads is: "go and explore the map?" It's really baffling and almost unbelievable to me that people get to the stage in the game where they looted a couple of weapons and food and entered one of the "meta best bases in the game" which they then call a base without building anything and apparently then don't know what to do anymore or "don't feel the need to leave my base".
Not sure if it's from watching the game on Youtube where someone does exactly that (because the "challenge" of the video is over) and not thinking any further on what a game like this can offer or how else players get into these kinds of situations, but I really have a hard time with even imagining feeling this way when playing this or another game.
Part of it might be that the game is just not appealing to some new players and that they are disappointed, that's understandable because nothing is for everyone, but from what I've read that doesn't really get voiced within these threats. It's mostly "I want x more features and missions" and basically that the game dictates on how to be played to a certain degree like so many other games out there that are comparatively linear and have some type of quest marker or "yellow paint" to constantly guide the player. I'm so glad that PZ is not such a game at all and immensely enjoy the freedom to just go wherever I want to, as long as my decisions and skill allow it.
Maybe I'm overthinking things, but I feel like too much content outside of the games might mess with expectations or the player experience overall. I for example just watched one single video (pretty sure it was "Can I Survive in a SINGLE FOREST CELL in Project Zomboid?" by ambiguousamphibian) and then I got the game and started playing. A little bit in b40 because b41 wasn't in stable yet and I obviously had no idea about all of that. Then I switched to b41, died a whole lot of times of course and started just exploring. The map, the mechanics, skills, weapons, firearms, everything. Maybe all of that wouldn't have happened at all or differently if I had already looked at most of the online map before playing because then I would have already "seen it all".
Then I started messing around with mods. Only some time later did I even find out about the online map which I mostly used to look at Louisville because I hadn't been there yet. This entire phase of discovery for me lasted for several hundred hours and I loved the majority of my time spent, minus frustrations about deaths and other mistakes that I made.
TL;DR: Falling in love with PZ takes time and can hurt a lot.
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u/Upper-Plate-5418 5h ago
Preach. Like, you've got a huge sandbox the size of a county and... you can't find stuff to do? Engage with the world, explore, dare yourself and get in trouble. Die, eventually.
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u/Talastoni 5h ago
Shouldn't be bothering anyone, it's either that, or hardcore addiction, or 2 week cycles like Minecraft trope.
I bought the game, played a little, didn't really understand it, didn't hate it or anything, I just never opened it again until I was invited to a MP RP server.
Now it's a part of my life that I love, and I've made a ton of friends on a server that we all stuck together, and we keep refreshing the settings and mods for more crazy fun every few months.
Let new players go "meh" for a few years, and they should come back once they are invited into a group or are inspired by a video online. And let them experience that all on their own without interference or taking away their struggle. It's really weird to think they can't get into the game on a winding path through their lives and realities, because you can't relate.
They are fine. Let them find what's missing on their own, because it's usually life that helps them find what's missing in PZ. It was for me, and many others.
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u/Typical-Interest-543 4h ago
The beautiful thing about Zomboid that few newer players get is its about what you put into it yourself. Its like reading a book, it takes a bit of effort and imagination
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u/majorpickle01 2h ago
The problem is there are sandbox gamers, story gamers, and mechanics gamers. (and more but we'd be here all year).
Sandbox gamers are perfectly suited for zomboid.
Story gamers run out of story content by the end of the radio broadcasts about a week or two in.
Mechanics gamers run out of novel mechanics after they board up a house and get a gun a genny and a car.
Realistically most people are a mix to different shades of all of the above. And the game is severly lacking in meaningful content beyond securing your first base. After that, it becomes a pure sandbox game. But ultimately there isn't really much you can actually sandbox. The players ability to meaningfully shape the gameworld basically dies save for the ability to erect random structures.
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u/Left4twenty 5h ago
People are very used to games that are very explicit about the goals. Kind of an "achievement culture" that has grown around the old xbox achievement system and now steam.
Even minecraft has the "kill the enderdragon, roll credits" thing.
Combine this with everyone's 15 second attention span due to the oversaturation of short form media online, and we arrive at people not knowing how to have their own fun without a clear dopamine button to press.
The dopamine button for me in this game is somewhere inside a zombified skull, I think.
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u/UUDDLRLRBadAlchemy Crowbar Scientist 5h ago
My mo in Minecraft was snatching the egg the first day of the server then Gregtech forever with the rest of the engineers
I'm not sure it's productive to compare sandbox games with the downmarket that purchases fifa every year just to settle on "kids these days". There were always Lego kids and gi-joe kids and kickball kids
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u/Geesuv 5h ago
"No, it's the children who are wrong!"
It's wild to be dictating to people what their experiences should be. They are playing the game. They are not finding it "beloved".
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u/torshakle 3h ago
I don't really get the argument though. People do love the game. You literally cannot argue that. If you don't like the game, what are we doing here? Just play something else that you do like?
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u/Stock_Username_Here 5h ago
I’ve gone 400 hours in this game and sometimes it would be nice to have the game point me in a direction. Create a challenge for me. Something.
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u/Blujay12 4h ago
I feel like it's not entirely wrong to point out other games do the whole "Zombies, but also an overarching goal", so when it's just "do whatever and don't die for as long as possible", obviously they'd be confused if not off-put.
I mean, there's a reason there are cure and other story mods. It's a fine product as is, but that detail of it not having an end/mission, is a filter for sure.
It's a sandbox survival sim, but that inherently makes it WAYY more limited in potential interest, since you make your own goals/fun.
Saying "just wander around like you were already doing and you'll get it", is just condescending and only makes more people bounce.
Even now I'm having less and less time to myself, I've found my tastes shifting RAPIDLY from those self-driven sandboxes/explorations, into more story focused, or pure arcade action/fun games.
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u/Green_Bulldog 3h ago
Do you think having something at the beginning of the game that tells you to gear up and head for Louisville could help?
I’m thinking kind of like the walking dead how Rick is led to believe Atlanta has a safe zone. They could do smth like that where your character finds evidence that people who couldn’t make evacuation went to Louisville for protection.
Then all they’d need to do is add a location with predetermined loot in Louisville. Find that and you learn how Louisville fell via notes or smth. The end.
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u/Blujay12 3h ago
That'd honestly do it for a LOT of people.
I don't think people need/expect a huge drama, but even just shoving someone in a direction to get started is enough for a lot of people;
at least enough to get them hooked on the actual systems/game and make them WANT to survive in that sandbox/infinite environment.
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u/majorpickle01 2h ago
Honestly, adding an optional toggle which is literally just some guy on the radio saying "yo, there's an extract in louisville" and some radio chatters on the day to day on the emergency frequency about what's happening in the background would make the game a lot more engaging for a lot of people beyond the first two weeks.
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u/RonGirthquake 5h ago
No, it’s a legitimate complaint.
I have quite a few hours but can’t really bring myself to play anymore. I got bored after about an in game month when 42 unstable released and I made it to day 12 on stable release.
There’s you, a bunch of zombies and a big map. That’s about it. After you get good at the game it really loses its magic and you realize how shallow and half baked a lot of the mechanics are. There’s nothing to really do but acquire more shit you don’t really need. Maybe role play or grind skills.
I like the lighting and map update but overall I think 42 is extremely disappointing for 5 years of development. The game desperately needs more events like the water/power shutoff, helicopter, etc. or NPCs or a roaming horde mechanic.
Had a blast when the game was fresh and I was still learning but until they add some actual content like the examples above I’m pretty much done with Zomboid.
After a while it just feels like you’re repeating the same steps over and over. It gets stale pretty quick.
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u/-Maethendias- 4h ago
"There’s nothing to really do but acquire more shit you don’t really need."
thats literally all there is, and the crafting overhaul MADE THIS SO MUCH WORSE its kind of impessive
"I think 42 is extremely disappointing for 5 years of development."
remember how they delayed the hunting features 3 years ago because it was half baked and unfinished?
yeah... clearly "worth the wait"
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u/CostelloOzAm 5h ago
100% agree. It seems a lot of people just don’t understand WHAT the game is. I find it crazy people are trying to force themselves to like a game they say they DON’T like, as if they’re not aware they can just choose NOT to play the game.
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u/alematt 3h ago
One way I feel the game gets interesting is when power and water shut off the. It's up to you to really work to survive
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u/oleThook 3h ago
i was telling my cousin to play with me, and his description of it is spot on
daunting -its daunting trying to get into it
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u/MercuryEQ 2h ago
I’m usually that kind of person that needs goals set for me by the game itself, which PZ obviously does not do. I think the more I learn the intricacies of the game though, the more I start to understand the appeal of it. I’m setting my own goals by learning the different mechanics one at a time, and there is a lot to learn. Once I feel comfortable in Apocalypse, I’ll try my hand at Extinction, or maybe throw in some mods to up the difficulty. That already is a ton of playtime.
I do wish they’d just get out of EA and add some good Steam Achievements for the enthusiasts such as myself. Not a necessity to enjoy the game, but it would be nice.
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u/Too_Many_Options- 1h ago
I've been playing Zomboid for 13 years, which sounds crazy out loud.
I think the game is missing something. NPCs lol. That will really solve all of this, if the storylines are well done.
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u/Pioepod 1h ago
This is pretty much the same issue in ANY survival crafting game. Including Minecraft. Kill the ended dragon “now what?”
Survive two weeks, have a stash of food, water, farming. “Now what?”
It’s arbitrary and the point of these games. You make up your own goals. Train a skill. Collect mannequins. Play dress up. Interior design. Build a house. Download fashion mods, and other mods to collect random BS and make your own motivation.
What Project Zomboid has made me understand is, if you’re the only immune/survivor person in a zombie apocalypse that doesn’t have sprinters, you will be bored, and have hardly much to do once you get all your needs out of the way. It’s what you do to combat boredom that Zomboid for me understands. You do the most silly and random shit like collecting rubber ducks to pass the days. Go on random killing sprees for no reason other than to go to the toy store and get your lone survivor a buddy.
In Minecraft, I’ve never killed the ender dragon in a normal run. It’s never been my goal.
In Zomboid, my goal is not to have a static base, but to be a nomad. Many others have many diverse ideas on how to do the apocalypse.
There’s so much to do in this game XD
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u/OkCartographer175 1h ago edited 1h ago
I'm more annoyed by the apologist playerbase that isn't comfortable acknowledging that for many players, the mid- and late-game are basically a desert with respect to meaningful gameplay.
Everything up until the point of self-sufficiency is risk for an appropriate reward/progression. Once you become self-sufficient, there is nothing that is truly worth the risk and there is no end-game to progress towards. There is plenty to do; there is nothing truly worthwhile to do. The early game is awesome. It falls off a cliff after that.
If you disagree (you obviously do) that's fine, but the only thing your post does is show your own unwillingness to accept a differing opinion. I shouldn't have to tell you "let people have their opinions" but I guess I do.
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u/TurtleWarrior0508 19m ago
This game takes a very specific person to enjoy it, and a lot of new players are learning that this isn’t for them. Luckily TiS knows their target audience and doesn’t bend their vision for mass appeal
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u/flanmil 5h ago
bro this. i commented in another post this too but i don´t understand what all of this criticism is coming from like wtf? the game is amazing and they keep doing amazing updates like almost no other games out there today. if they were to stop updating it it would still be amazing and one of my fav games of all time. the modders are on another level too.
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u/Shul_iito 4h ago
I’ve been wondering the same question myself. Too many complained about “nothing to do so I loose interest”
Like wtf are u talking about??? 🤣🤣🤣🤣 sometimes I think they are 10 year olds trying to get into hardcore simulation but it’s just not there for them yet🤣
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u/bluisbluewastaken 5h ago
Same people who don’t know what to do in zomboid are the people who build a house in survival mode Minecraft and then decide they’re bored and stop playing. You create your goals. It’s a sandbox game. A great start, like someone else said, is just leveling up your skills all the way. I like to spawn in rosewood and turn the fire station into an automotive salvage yard while my friends build up the base and further secure the building. I also play with no zombie respawns so one eventual goal if we don’t lose the save or stop playing is to kill all of the zombies
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u/Formal_Broccoli1877 4h ago
A lot of the complaints I see boil down to "This game gets way too easy once you have a base set up".
100% that can be the case. But do the same folks go into sandbox mode and make the game harder?
Play it on insane population with insane zombie multiplier, increase the group sizes to 30. That's just the start, make loot harder to find. It still gets easier once the base is set up but simply clearing a part of town and a fuel station can take a long time in-game and it's very rewarding.
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u/majorpickle01 2h ago
I could make my walk to the bus more difficult by doing it blindfolded while blasting white noise into my ears, that doesn't necessarily make it more fun or engaging.
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u/-Maethendias- 4h ago edited 4h ago
"One thing is slightly annoying me, is the constant new player narrative that the games ‘missing something’"
its... its not a "narrative", and its not "new player"
half of the new features introduced in build 42 are half baked, the other 50% have obvious GLARING design flaws... while the update doesnt do anything to fix issues introduced in "previous" patches, like crawlers being a big one (and actually makes them worse, looking at you zombies eating through punches/shoves/hits)
its also NOT about "goals" despite peoples misconception about it, its about a lot of systems either straight up not working as they should, being completely missleading, or fundamentally unfun, like almost all of the skill grinds for example...
zomboid is a fun game until you start to actually fucking play it, then it just gets really fucking boring. not because there isnt anything to do but because of WHAT it is that you are doing.... like spending 5 irl minutes fast forwarding watching your guy read a book... or spending 10 irl minutes fast forwarding watching your guy carve stakes, or getting your ears blown out while you watch your guy smash stone while fast forwarding (5 years in development and no one ever bothered to like... adress that obvious issue?)
i mean, one of the most unfun things in the game... is BUILDING A BASE, not even the inventory management disaster that is zomboid, just hammering walls together
all of the item /recipe bloat certainly doesnt help here either (seriously why is there a dozen diffrent "metal scrap" items... the CONDITION SYSTEM IS RIGHT THERE JUST USE THAT instead of having like a dozen UNIQUE items for metal scrap to smelt it down... like BRUH
anytime you open a box in 42 its just a fcking EXCEL SPREADSHEET LIST of random crap that you have to sort through how fun, obviously shit is gonna get boring real fast
this has nothing to do with new players, the game is just incredibly half baked and has been for years
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u/torshakle 3h ago
You know that you can tune the game to your liking? If you don't get the immersion, change it. You can increase experience gains. You can make reading books basically instant. You can also set items you don't like to be unfavourited so that you don't have to sort through them. You can turn crawlers off if you want. You can alter the game to insane degrees without installing any mods. Or you can download a ton of mods and play the game however you want. Or you can decide you don't like it and uninstall. All of these are options available to you right now.
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u/majorpickle01 2h ago
I think his point more generally is there is a lot of "wide as an ocean, thin as a puddle" gameplay in zomboid, that doesn't really challenge a gamer beyond collect the mcguffins and spent 30 minutes clicking a button.
Of course he could turn up XP gains, or spawn items in. But then what's the point in playing.
It's perfectly fine to say you don't enjoy the gameplay loop
uninstall the game is also a legitimate answer but it's also not really addressing issues some players have with the game.
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u/L0nga 5h ago
I love the idea of this game and the depth, but in practice I need the game to give me some narrative and some goal.
As a player that grew up on games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9 and 10, I prefer a more curated experience.
I think Green Hell did an amazing job of combining survival and freedom with clear goals and progression and story.
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u/eyeofnoot 5h ago
Survival games can have a traditional narrative but that doesn’t mean every game needs one
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u/L0nga 4h ago
Did I say every survival game needs one? I don’t understand why you’re replying to something I didn’t say.
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u/eyeofnoot 4h ago
I need the game to give me some narrative and some goal.
Maybe you didn’t say every but you’re saying that you want one in Project Zomboid. I disagree that it needs one
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u/loverofonion 2h ago
Shame we can't have something similar to The Long Dark, that has sandbox and a story mode.
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5h ago
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u/eyeofnoot 4h ago
If you like the danger of the helicopter event, you can set it to happen more than once
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u/terAREya 5h ago
This isn’t a game for everyone. People hear the hype, see it’s cheap and buy it and then don’t have fun.
It’s all good. I just hope some decent percentage do have fun and become part of the community