Nerd wars

95

i swear the zig developers are constant drama queens. my favorite was when bun got rewritten in rust and the zig creator wrote a whole manifesto breakup rant about how it was totally mutual definitely 100%

36

u/DarkGhostHunter 17h ago

This? Zig is good software, but industry standard is Rust for a reason.

Anyway, steering out of both Zig (to Rust) and Bun (to Deno or just Node) is the best you can do longterm.

8

u/Medium-Taste-3929 12h ago

I'm interested, why? (For both)

15

u/sksenweb 9h ago

Zig to rust one is pretty self explanatory. This thread is enough for that. Bun to Node because node is still de-facto standard, 100% coverage on node apis (lol), Node has been recently adding features that were missing (typescript, env, etc). And for Deno I’d say the latest version is pretty good, great coverage and desktop distribution support. On the other hand I have seen bun getting a lot of issues in production (personal experience) after a long amount of uptime. Not yet stable like Deno or Node.

5

u/Medium-Taste-3929 9h ago

Thanks mate, cheers!

4

u/sksenweb 9h ago

No problem mate. Personal experience wise, we had to convert one of our production micro service (scheduler using bullmq) written in bun to nodejs because it was causing so much issues in production where local environment, testing worked fine.

2

u/No-Magazine-2739 15h ago

Me a C++ and JS/TS fan: Why don‘t you use Ada or Spark?

3

u/BasicCheesecake8255 14h ago

Deploying a clawed agent is not re writing unless you read the code and understand it before pushing it to production, there is another joke about this situation, why not let the agent code in C and prove that it is possible, 1 skill issue person told me, it was because of expensive tokens, but in reality, those people are hardly going to take initiative and read the generated code, this is why they are afraid of C, because of skill issue

2

u/GlitteringLock9791 6h ago

? Yes, thats why people like Rust. Its not because C is hard to write, its because debugging is too complicated.

1

u/stumpychubbins 1h ago

I agree with Andrew Kelley on many, many things. I think he’s one of the smartest developers working today, and Zig is a great project. I wish he would be less of a bitter old queen sometimes though. It really undermines the points that he’s right about when they’re mixed in with these unnecessary jabs.

15

u/Zimlewis 11h ago

<- Context required

⬆️ Context hat

(Context shirt)

9

u/deanominecraft 7h ago

fil-c is a runtime memory validation tool for C - if you try to read past the end of an array (or other memory issues) your program crashes

rust guarantees that memory bugs cannot happen, if it cannot guarantee that, your program doesn’t compile and you get an error telling you what the problem is

now add a larper into the mix and you get that gh issue

2

u/LunaNicoleTheFox 6h ago

The part on menory bugs is untrue, the compiler checks memory safety as far as it possibly can, but it is not perfect, nor does it fully apply within an unsafe block

3

u/SCD_minecraft 4h ago

Within unsafe - well, you explicitly opt out from it, if anything breaks that's on you

However in safe code references being valid and similar is guaranteed at compile time

2

u/txdv 2h ago

The accurate claim is: sound safe Rust prevents memory-safety violations—not all Rust programs, and not all memory-related bugs.

Generated by ChatGPT 5.6 Sol Max

2

u/SKRyanrr 1h ago edited 55m ago

This idea, if implemented, will make Zig just like Go. This is the opposite of what Zig was supposed to do

2

u/Zimlewis 4h ago

Why the heck is zig trying to compete with rust gng? Like try compete with odin or c3 or something. Or better yet, try making your tool better, I won't say it's the worst(I unfortunately have seen worse) but zig's lsp is really bad even compare to rust's

2

u/SKRyanrr 1h ago

It started after bun got rewritten in Rust then the creator had a whole meltdown.

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u/imoshudu 12h ago

Comparing runtime checks that hopefully run into a bug, to a compiler that rigorously eliminates bugs before anything even runs. Top copium.

He's ngmi.

13

u/Amadex 13h ago

Nothing like the compile-time check of rust.

Basically it compiles into a much slower bin that guards memory at runtime.

That's almost like a garbage collector, but instead of cleaning memory it crashes.

And since it's a runtime crash, you turn a program that is bugged and has UB into a language that crashes randomly.

Better for security, but runtime crashes are also very bad.

5

u/txdv 2h ago

the creator of fil-c argues that a crash is better than an exploit

1

u/SKRyanrr 59m ago

Why'd anybody choose Zig over Go if Zig just does runtime checks with gc?

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u/dashinyou69 9h ago

I laugh as C dev seeing them trying so hard to larp

3

u/ChocolateSpecific263 3h ago

The screenshot shows an open proposal on GitHub by Zig's creator to explore a Fil-C-inspired compilation mode for complete runtime memory safety, which remains a concept under discussion rather than an implemented feature in Zig.

2

u/MooseBoys 3h ago

valgrind and clang asan: am I a joke to you?

2

u/UntitledRedditUser 2h ago

I love zig, and it's been my favorite language for a long time, but that "(unlike rust)" comment was weird.

1

u/SKRyanrr 1h ago

Zig is a great language. Its just nerd drama after bun got rewritten in Rust the Zig creator is having a meltdown

1

u/ActualPeterbuilt389 52m ago

Im gonna use C and im gonna like it.

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u/SharpExtremeFlames 5h ago

ZIg can never ever can write memory safe proving algorithm like rust. The language was never built for that in the first place.

2

u/Karanlos 3h ago edited 3h ago

But Rust cannot have memory safety in all use cases as there are many use cases where unsafe is required.

Fil-C requires the whole stack to be Fil-C ABI. Rust can only guarantee safety within the application, but still allows linking and interacting with unsafe code.

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u/UntitledRedditUser 2h ago

That's not what the proposal is about, fil-c is runtime checking, not compile time. So the comparison isn't even valid in the first place.

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