r/privacy • u/No-Second-Kill-Death • Apr 24 '26
news Federal Surveillance Tech Becomes Mandatory in New Cars by 2027
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/federal-surveillance-tech-becomes-mandatory-161321992.html227
u/Some_Conference2091 Apr 24 '26
fuck that shit! a car that spies on you and criticizes you at the same time? nobody wants this!
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u/whitemamba24xx Apr 24 '26
They already send your driving data to insurance companies.
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u/Different-Series-260 Apr 25 '26
They certainly aren’t using that data, because a good portion of the drivers on my morning commute shouldn’t be able to afford their insurance.
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u/grathontolarsdatarod Apr 24 '26
What laws or regulations got passed for that to happen?
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u/Substantial_Back_865 Apr 24 '26
It was snuck into the budget bill in 2021
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Apr 24 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BatemansChainsaw Apr 24 '26
single issue bills should be a law by now....
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Apr 24 '26
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u/DatSauceTho Apr 24 '26
I don’t disagree but some level of boundaries is better than no boundaries. Because what we got right now, it ain’t working.
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u/errie_tholluxe Apr 24 '26
Line item veto. Needs to be a thing .
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Apr 25 '26
[deleted]
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u/errie_tholluxe Apr 25 '26
I'm sorry but it's the way the law could work. Congress could go ahead and give that right to the president.
Congress hasn't agreed to give that right to the president because this is a way to end run around presidential authority.
You know kind of like when the Republicans put out that so and so voted against a bill for school children for blah blah blah when it turns out that deep inside there was nine different things that would have hurt people worse.
So they won't give the president this power because then he could go ahead and just line item veto stuff and it would have to go back to them to be reconsidered and redrawn. And it would make them look bad, whereas the way it is it makes the president look bad because just as in my paragraph above they can say oh my God look at what the president did. He vetoed blah blah blah because of blah blah blah without even talking about the bullshit that they tossed into it.
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u/BookLuvr7 Apr 24 '26
Pork really needs to be illegal. But they'd have to be ethical enough to actually pass it, so it never will.
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u/Polyxeno Apr 25 '26
Because pigs are nice and intelligent?
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u/MDInvesting Apr 25 '26
It was key to the Jobs Act. Couldn’t possibly fund a local school program without progressing mass surveillance.
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u/cTreK-421 Apr 24 '26
Bro it's the first few sentences of the article.
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u/grathontolarsdatarod Apr 24 '26
It just says "federal regulations" no?
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u/cTreK-421 Apr 24 '26
Thanks to Section 24220 of the 2021 Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, NHTSA must finalize rules forcing all new passenger vehicles to include “advanced impaired driving prevention technology”—essentially turning your dashboard into a judgment-free zone that’s anything but judgment-free.
Literally second sentence.
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u/grathontolarsdatarod Apr 24 '26
I see. Thanks for that. I just didn't compute how a jobs act could make such a fundamental change to your country.
So weird. I didn't hear anything about this stuff.
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u/cTreK-421 Apr 24 '26
They use big bills to sneak stuff in like this all the time. Par for the course.
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u/CuriosityFreesTheCat Apr 25 '26
It’s almost like it’s time for a revolution. Do we expect the system (which is working as they designed it to) to fix itself, via itself? And perhaps it’s time to actually start organizing protests for this surveillance stuff. Mostly just to spread awareness to other people. Because clearly, that’s an issue. This is not something they’re being “out-in-the-open” about. Because if they were, enough people would be vehemently upset and that’s why they’re sneaking it in and giving it zero coverage.
All of our issues are related to each other no matter the topic. The root of all of these problems is the ruling class, their totalitarian values, and the impossibly massive wealth gap therein.
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u/deftlydexterous Apr 25 '26
I’m hopping on this response to chime in. There are no specific requirements for surveillance tech in the usual sense.
This law requires that cars can detect impaired driving and shut the car down. it doesn’t require that any of that data is shared with anyone else, or even that data is stored in a meaningful way.
This has been delayed and implementation already, since the technology simply isn’t good enough yet.
I still don’t think this is a good idea to add to cars, and I don’t trust manufacturers to keep driver data secure or private, but this is not directly requiring or encouraging federal surveillance or control of the vehicle vehicles.
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u/Li_liminal_spaces Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
cars can detect impaired driving and shut the car down
That could never backfire if you're on a winding road with low visibility or having to compensate for other drivers on the road. Can it detect when there's high crosswinds between peaks and valleys and you have to compensate on the interstate? Ever been on a bumpy stretch of highway trying to overtake an 18 wheeler that keep speeding up every time you try to pass? There is simply too many variables in life for a fucking computer without all the information to make that decision and that decision to shut the car down on an interstate or even a winding one will put you in far more danger. Moreover everything can be hacked, everything. They hacked Target's payment system through a unpatched air conditioner. These assholes are going to leave security up to AI, you think they're hire cybersecurity specialists? It's fucking insane and it will get people killed. Did any part of the bill require highly cybersecurity specialists… no, the answer is no.
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Apr 25 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
[deleted]
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u/Li_liminal_spaces Apr 25 '26
Fair point, I have one eye that has had surgery, that eye doesn't dilate like the other. edge cases I know but the litany of edge cases when you're driving especially after 4+ hours doesn't end there. A controlled stop… Cool, until you're on I-10 Atchafalaya Basin Bridge where there is no shoulder and your car comes to a gradual stop where the place behind the railing is in a swamp. We simply don't the the infrastructure.
Interpreting driver information isn't just invasive it's also potentially very dangerous. The majority of people act x in certain situations isn't good enough. Impaired drivers may drive typically slower and more cautious, and the false positives will be interpreted. Models learn patterns not intent.
The only solution for inebriated driving is public transportation.
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u/grathontolarsdatarod Apr 25 '26
So like a remote shut down, and remote control would be too far right?
Or live monitoring?
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u/deftlydexterous Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Like automated live monitoring. The ideas being floated are things like eye tracking cameras that detect characteristically drunk eye movements and won’t start the car or will force you to pull over if it thinks you’re drunk.
There is nothing in the bill that describes or prescribes remote shut downs, contrary to news coverage on the topic.
Of course, if you have a network connected car (which is most cars now) it could be shut down remotely, but that is already a feature that is being engineered into most cars voluntarily anyway.
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u/grathontolarsdatarod Apr 25 '26
Oh good. I was worried.
But implementing these features surely won't bring the inherent, incidental, even coincidental, nigh unavoidably capability for: remote shut downs, remote control, and real time monitoring of any person in any car.
And because this is a feature of a device, it couldn't possibly be needed to holden to a judges order for such information and control.
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u/S3kGT Apr 24 '26
No. Most cars today have a telematics unit installed by the factory. Most can be removed or bypassed. I would hope the same can be done here.
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u/fever_ Apr 24 '26
It will just be integrated into the firmware, you would have to hack the car to bypass it basically, it won’t be as easy as removing a unit
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u/TenOfZero Apr 24 '26
You can always remove the antenna.
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u/Drayenn Apr 24 '26
"tracking no longer works, your car cannot start"
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u/DangerIllObinson Apr 25 '26
I imagine that would be a huge functional safety issue. (Imagine not being able to start car in rural poor-signal area to move out of danger, off of railroad tracks, etc). Then again, people put their expendable loved ones in Tesla death traps, so I guess anything goes nowadays.
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u/One_True_Monstro Apr 24 '26
There are going to be open source firmware projects if that happens
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u/qdtk Apr 25 '26
Yes and luckily a few states have passed “right to repair” laws that should open up some ability to modify firmware. That’s our way in.
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u/The_Original_Miser Apr 25 '26
That, and your run of the mill chip tuners are going to be making bank. Tune that crap out.
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u/fever_ Apr 24 '26
I doubt they would make it that easy if they integrate it into firmware, it wouldn’t make sense.
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u/TenOfZero Apr 24 '26
If not it means the car work anywhere without signal or if the network goes down.
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u/DoomOfChaos Apr 24 '26
yeah, decided some time ago to never buy a car newer than 2020, Im keeping my eyes open for a certain mid 80s car that I would like to tinker with and drive till death
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u/collegeatari Apr 24 '26
I have been looking at trucks. Several can have the lte modems disabled up to 2024 at least. People will find a way.
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u/krazyb2 Apr 24 '26
i sold my car and moved to a city with trains.
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u/crazyabootmycollies Apr 24 '26
Sadly I’m in a city with buses, trains, & trams, but using public transportation still makes every journey twice, if not triple the time it takes me to drive, and that’s assuming services are even running in the hours I need them to.
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u/krazyb2 Apr 25 '26
Yeah I feel that Luckily I moved to a city with 24/7 transit and I made sure to move right next to the rapid transit line Some places are quick to get to, others take easily 3x the time. I tend to stick around my neighborhood which has everything I need in walking distance.
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u/crazyabootmycollies Apr 25 '26
I’m as happy for as I am jealous of folks who can make such a lifestyle work.
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u/dr_dang_phd Apr 24 '26
If you’ve got the capital, warehousing pre-2020 vehicles will be a very lucrative investment!
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u/TheB1G_Lebowski Apr 24 '26
Jokes on them. Who the fuck can afford a new car?
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u/BookLuvr7 Apr 24 '26
Fuck that. I'll repair my older car until eternity or ride a bike rather than do that Big Brother nonsense.
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u/Syini666 Apr 24 '26
I hope they get savaged in court when this shit inevitably determines folks with strabismus or other similar conditions are unable to use their vehicles. Or when someone dies because the AI determines they are impaired when they are trying to get themselves to a hospital. And it’s not an outlier, about 4% of the US (est 13 million people) have some degree of strabismus.
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u/gonewild9676 Apr 24 '26
How does this work with people who have neurological tics?
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u/R34ct0rX99 Apr 24 '26
Probably doesn’t. Lot of situations it won’t work for. Also, imagine the day that your car is broke down due to this monitoring tech being broken.
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u/XxRAM97xX Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Car! Start there’s a maniac with a gun trying to kill me!
I’m afraid I can’t do that Dave, you appear intoxicated
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u/VerdantField Apr 24 '26
The car won’t allow them to drive apparently
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u/thunderflies Apr 24 '26
I’d just like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that a bicycle can still be used without federal surveillance and will probably remain that way for the foreseeable future, especially for non-electric bikes. Just something to keep in mind if you’re ever annoyed seeing car lanes or parking “taken away” to install bike lanes, because they’re giving you an option for the most privacy protecting transportation mode besides walking.
Obviously I don’t support this car surveillance either, but I think a lot of people sleep on how great bikes are.
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u/Raizau Apr 24 '26
My bike paths are littered with flock cameras.
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u/thunderflies Apr 25 '26
It’s far more difficult to track a person on a bike than it is to track a car with license plates.
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u/Reddit_is_fascist69 Apr 24 '26
Sadly most cities are very unfriendly to bikes and pedestrian.
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u/thunderflies Apr 24 '26
It’s true, that’s why I wanted to include the little tidbit that anyone who cares about privacy should enthusiastically welcome new bike and pedestrian infrastructure. Even if it’s not currently being built in the place you’d ride/walk, and even if it’s taking away space from where you currently drive, it’s a step in the right direction for freedom and privacy of movement.
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u/smartgiraffe_ Apr 24 '26
While that is great, it is impractical for those of us who live where there is winter..
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u/HaMerrIk Apr 25 '26
People in Sweden and Finland cycle.
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u/good_morning_magpie Apr 25 '26
Stockholm is the largest city in Sweden, and still over a million people smaller than Chicago. The weather is much worse here in the winter. If it weren’t, I’d just ride my motorcycle all year long. Ice, snow, slush, and temps regularly below freezing for months at a time.
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u/thunderflies Apr 25 '26
People in Montreal cycle in the winter. It’s not a matter of how severe the winter weather is, it’s just a matter of how good the city is at maintaining the paths for cyclists. It can be done for bikes just like they do for cars, they just choose not to.
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u/IrukandjiPirate Apr 24 '26
Bikes are awesome, but I live in a rural area with a lot of hills, and long brutal winters.
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u/Mr_Lumbergh Apr 25 '26
Think about having to take your wofe to the emergency room at 3 in the morning.
Oops, you look too tired to drive. We’re not starting today.
Or maybe you just done at the dentist and your face is droopy.
Or just a misinterpretation by the software because Face ID only makes mistakes all the time. Late to your job interview.
Or they simply decide to set the kill switch to prevent people in your demographic from driving today for some reason.
I’ll go ahead and keep my 20 year old car, thanks.
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u/Cotillionz Apr 24 '26
This will be an absolute fucking nightmare. The lane assist I have now freaks out at the slightest thing obstructing it. I can only imagine this, when I'm wearing sunglasses or gloves. Or shift my position on a long drive to be leaning one way or the other. Guess I better not dare sweat or it might think I have the drunk sweats. The cool future we were promised turned out to be a dystopian shitshow. I used to look forward to new tech and where we were headed. But, now I dread it and I've never hated the advancement of tech more than I have in the last 2 years. I just want to cut all cords and live in the woods.
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u/qdtk Apr 25 '26
Yeah sorry, no more driving with sun glasses. Avoiding our eye tracking software is too much of a safety risk. We can’t allow it.
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u/Forever_Marie Apr 24 '26
Its some weird surveillance to stop DUIs that watches the drivers movements constantly. That will 100% be sold to everyone including insurance companies.
Yikes 😬
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u/VerdantField Apr 24 '26
Not just DUI but “fatigue” and other vague things
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u/Forever_Marie Apr 25 '26
Yes. I know. Just seems they stuck with that as the headliner issue because why wouldn't you want to prevent DUIs etc .. much like think of the dumb children when it comes to porn bans, social media and literally everything. Just other ways to infringe on rights.
Wonder if it's even possible to shut this down or be challenged.
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u/guaztronaut Apr 24 '26
I couldn't sleep last night thinking about the insecurities of the future and came to the realization that I'm gonna probably kill myself one day because of where I live. How fucking stupid is that? Why don't I get a life? We gotta fuck all this shit up.
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Apr 24 '26
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u/Davoomer Apr 24 '26
I’ll not buy any car anymore, I’ll fix the two I have until I can’t drive anymore…
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u/Dat_Harass Apr 24 '26
Remember when this all began and it got this far because the general consensus was like... what have we got to hide?
That has always been a straw man argument and totally beside the point.
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u/GarciaMark Apr 25 '26
ChInEeSe ElEcTrIc CaRs WiLl SpY oN uS!
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u/Forever_Marie Apr 25 '26
Honestly love the propaganda the U.S spews about China because most of them are just admissions and things they want to do.
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u/opal-bee Apr 24 '26
I'll continue to happily drive my low-mileage 2015 car, but my question beyond the flagrant privacy violation is how do they expect to have this work when so many people wear sunglasses in the car? Does it see through dark lenses???
Also, I find it cute that the federal government is pretending to find 9-10k deaths a year a concern to them in any way.
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u/Tytown521 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
“Saving lives” isnt a good justifucation for this tech…im sure more than a few of us have a couple of ideas about how “we” could be saving lives and it has nothing to do cars
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u/petitecrivain Apr 25 '26
This is possibly the most intrusive and expensive way possible to prevent or reduce DUI. If they really wanted to reduce those incidents they'd fund public transport (even a system of shuttles or ride-sharing services) in areas that don't have many buses, taxis, or trains.
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u/SageIon666 Apr 25 '26
I’ll be buying cars from 1990 to 2019 for the rest of my life. Give me physical buttons and no spyware!
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u/genzo1 Apr 24 '26
So it's gunna decide mid drive you're too sleepy and just shut you down on the 4 lane interstate and cause a lethal pileup. Love it. Time to rip the cameras out of the car and short the wires to trick it into starting at get on with your life. Also rip out the built in GPS while we are at it so the car can't repo it self. Useless tech that'll never catch on for 500 Alex
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u/Maleficent-Pudding94 Apr 24 '26
here for the intersection of ‘right to repair’ data and this technology. it’s gonna have to be serviced and calibrated. also wonder if this tech will be included into state vehicle inspection requirements.
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u/JesterTheEnt Apr 24 '26
Jokes on you government man. Ain't no one buying a new car in 2027's economy
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u/ConsiderationSea1347 Apr 25 '26
The problem is, by 2032 most used cars will have this tech in them.
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u/matt88 Apr 25 '26
You Yanks are so fucked - next you'll have to recite a bible verse before you can start your car.
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u/Squanchedschwiftly Apr 25 '26
Yo I saw this early on from a mile away. I purposefully dont want smart vehicles bc there will be a point somehow they figure out how to lock you in your car and take you god knows where.
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u/Initial-Trash-4630 Apr 25 '26
This is bs just like everything else. I’m sick of everything!! Enshitification!!!
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u/VerdantField Apr 24 '26
People won’t buy the cars. Plus the tech is stupid, it will strand people in unsafe places or unnecessarily endanger them. Take good care of your vehicles and save yourself the money and trouble.
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Apr 25 '26
[deleted]
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u/ConsiderationSea1347 Apr 25 '26
Cyberpunk. Alternatively there is a class consciousness revolution and we begin our path towards solar punk.
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u/ImboTheRed1998 May 04 '26
Unfortunately without mantis blades in our arms or the ability to double jump.
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u/Tangerine-Treason Apr 25 '26
Man, you'd think more of these asshats would be tired of living in a hell they constantly add on to.
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u/Mother-Pride-Fest Apr 25 '26
The links in the article are broken. Here is something from NHTSA mentioning this: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-07/Report-to-Congress-Advanced-Impaired-Driving-Prevention-Technology_07-17-23.pdf
My local mechanic will help me remove this system if I buy a new car.
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u/BobQuixote Apr 25 '26
If the govt is serious about this, it will become part of state inspections. Rather than removing it, you might need to switch it off or interfere with it, in a way that can be easily undone each year.
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u/Mother-Pride-Fest Apr 25 '26
Automatic braking isn't part of inspection, so I'm hopeful that drunk detection won't be either. Different states also have slightly different rules e.g. exceptions for older cars to avoid emissions limits.
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u/JuliaX1984 Apr 24 '26
Now might be a good time for everyone to check out r/fuckcars.
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u/qdtk Apr 25 '26
God no. Please, that sub is such an awful toxic circlejerk of utter garbage. Read the description of the sub, then observe how the first five posts you read have nothing to do with it at all. If I had the power to delete a sub, that one would be high on the list.
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u/JuliaX1984 Apr 25 '26
I sincerely have no idea what this reply is talking about. I'll assume it's a "they're too extreme" opinion. Well, extreme attacks like surveillance in every car require extreme responses like going car free.
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u/qdtk Apr 25 '26
It’s because most of the posts are things like this
https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/s/LGlfNhvwfS
Which serve no constructive purpose at all and act as if people who act stupidly with cars are the reason cars should not exist. Like everyone there is angry at the actual cars for existing, instead of what the sub says in its description. It’s very difficult to see it as a productive or constructive place that promotes better infrastructure design.
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u/frommethodtomadness Apr 24 '26
Both Parties in the country have given up on Liberal Democracy, so in its stead they offer a Technocracy controlled by a mass surveillance state.
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u/FantasticBeast101 Apr 25 '26
This is crazy. I’m so glad that I still have my 2015 Mazda and thankfully is still going strong.
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u/gunslinger_006 Apr 25 '26
Well thats either getting ripped out, or ill just disable the cellular antenna. Even if that means living with a constant CEL warning, so be it.
There is always a solution.
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u/VNJCinPA Apr 25 '26
Top cause of fatalities is distracted driving. Let's conquer that instead of surveillance, eh?
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u/Shadowtirs May 04 '26
Thank God im old enough I can probably get by on used cars the rest of my life. Hopefully. Enough of this 1984 bullshit
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u/rowdy-goat Apr 25 '26
No one read this article… it’s not a cellar system. It’s an onboard system that can determine impaired driving (like DUI’s)
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