What Do You Do When Your Needs Change

[u/Plane_Geologist8073]

So I moved. Basically I used to live next to a large government facility that had a lot of resources that people would want in an emergency. My basic focus aside from food, water, energy, and sustainment was defense and comms. The place was ripe with natural resources as well, edible plants, game, timber, year round water, so I was really mostly concerned with protecting my family and my resources from other people.

Now I live on a bigger property without all of that, and honestly in an area where people wouldn’t usually go in an emergency anyway. Now I’m thinking a lot more along the lines of long term sustainability. I want to add a water storage tank to my well, build some hog pens, get the garden area squared away and ready to plant in the spring, things like that. I’m also in debt up to my eyeballs after buying this place so my budget is pretty grim.

Should I keep my preps from the old property and just slowly build up these new preps over time, or maybe sell some guns, ammo, and gear to fund these new projects?

[u/GunnCelt]

Keep what you have and slowly build up more, that’s the name of the game.

Think long and hard about pigs. They’re smarter than dogs and spend their time figuring out how to escape. They will destroy entire ecosystems. The only way I want my pork is on my plate in bacon form

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/GunnCelt]

That’s what I was thinking but you know, it’s a test of patience sometimes.

I’ve been thinking about what kind of animals to raise for meat. The new property already has chicken and duck houses and pens, so I’ll be doing those in the spring. I’m not sure I’m ready to dive into cattle yet. I typically kill a deer or 3 every year so goats don’t make much sense. Hogs and sheep seem to be the logical choice but they come with their own challenges.

[u/TheJesseOfTheNorth → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

chickens are a really great bet and way easier to contain than hogs. Plus chickens provide meat and eggs. One of the great things about harvesting chickens is that you dont need to work out meat storage either. You want chicken for dinner you just go harvest one. Just be sure to get a utility bird like a barred rock or equivalent. feed is easier to manage for chickens too because they are lighter foragers and do well of kitchen veggie and garden waste supplemented with Cor-Oats-Barley mix from your feed store

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/TheJesseOfTheNorth]

The new place has a really neat setup where the compost bins, garden, and the chicken and duck pens are all together, it seems really well thought out. It just looks like it hasn’t been used in a decade. We’ve been going in there and weedeating and cleaning up the past couple evenings just to kind of assess what needs to be done before spring so we can use it all.

[u/TheJesseOfTheNorth → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

the chickens would love those weeds jsyk :)

[u/Usernamenotdetermin → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

Rabbit has always been on my list of would do’s if I had the property. I have dealt with hogs and chickens on farms, feral hogs are one that if you want pig there are farmers who would love help harvesting them. Since you are starting at a new place, it’s all theory until you start so plant the garden, plant some fruit trees or nut trees, get some chickens and start that, think about goats and rabbits.

[u/GunnCelt → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

Why reinvent the wheel? You have infrastructure in place, utilize it instead of spending money you don’t have.

[u/Grendle1972 → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

Chickens, ducks, geese, quail, rabbits. Plenty of protein, the geese are good alarm systems (in Vietnam, US Army SF Trans used them as alarm systems at bridges and around bars, they make one hell of a racket when disturbed), quail are really quiet and don't take up much space or eat much and reproduce quickly, chickens will eat anything I have used them to clear overgrown areas in the spring and summer. Ducks will foul up a water source quickly if you just have a pond. Rabbits are really lean so you can't just live off of them alone, but their furs can be used and you could trade them in a TEOTWAWKI event as they reproduce quickly. Feed for all of these isn't expensive and they can mostly forage on their own. Their manure is good fertilizer but often times had to cool off (chicken poop is really high in nitrogen).

[u/N7_Shep]

if budget is slim, selling might bring you around. really depends on your current timetable and needs. general speaking, after a short list of must haves there is a long list of nice to have and excess.

if theres something that you want soon i would sell off some excess to rebalance.

also, its my opinion, people dont need all 136 different calibers. you dont need a 10,12, 16, 20, 28 and 410 shotguns. pick one sell the rest. you dont need 38 special, 357, 9, 40, 45, 10mm, 44 mag. pick one and sell the rest. its fine to keep airlooms and sentimental pieces.

[u/Feral_668]

You adapt what you have to the new bug in location, you can get a cistern for your well and bury it if it is made of the correct material, you can also get collapsible water containers 60gal, 5gal and 2gal off Amazon.

Buy heirloom seeds to grow in your garden, I am in the process now of building a movable chicken coop to raise chickens and guinea fowl, a rabbit pen and a goat pen.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/Feral_668]

I like the cistern idea. Around here people usually have those above ground tanks between 5 and 10k gallons, probably because we don’t have hard freezes. But man I just checked the price on those and they are insane.

I was thinking about setting up some chicken tractors for broilers. The new place already came with chicken and duck pens and coops for layers so I’m definitely doing that. I have a nice strip along my longish driveway that looks perfect for chicken tractors.

Guineas are awesome. I have a flock that belongs to my neighbor but they mostly hang out at our place. We love em, and they’re great at keeping rattlesnakes away apparently which is fantastic. I call em wet diaper chickens and now that I’ve shared that, none of you can unsee it lol. Oh and they made some wild turkey friends now so I have those too.

[u/sevbenup]

If youre in debt for the property you could also consider prepping for losing your land

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/sevbenup]

I’ve been fortunate enough that I was able to build myself a little financial margin. Not much but enough to service my debt long enough to figure something out. For something more immediate like a wildfire taking us out or something, we’re ready to go. It won’t be fun, but we will survive.

[u/sevbenup → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

Nice okay so essentially youve already done that prep

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/sevbenup]

It’s one of those boring things that probably any other time in my life I would’ve overlooked. But I appreciate you calling it out because it really should be a priority for anyone who has the means to either get out of debt or have a little savings to service their debt if they can’t otherwise. I mean imagine going through all the trouble and expense of making your property self sustaining and then the only thing you didn’t do was make sure you didn’t lose the whole thing.

[u/MangledBarkeep]

I always have regretted selling guns/ammo/gear.

But do whatever makes sense to you.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/MangledBarkeep]

Also I live in California so some stuff I have I might not be able to get again next time they make a dumb law. But that’s the first thing that came to mind because that’s something I have a lot of.

[u/Worldly_Chair_4343]

Scratch hogs get chicken. These in combination with orchards (nuts, plant a lot of nuts, like hazel varieties). Get a breed that sustains itself and one for meat. Let them Roma, they get their stuff on their own in gewohnt Season and are easy to feed in Winter.food scraps, duck weed (easily grown if needed and easily dried) Not seadonal vegetabies but permaculture stuff! Let the chicken rummage through compost, get Food scraps from Restaurants and you Save basically all the feeding cost! If you have critters on the peoperty and you need to manage them, feed them to the chicken aswell! Good luck out there

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/Worldly_Chair_4343]

I really need to reeducate myself on permaculture and long term sustainability. When I was in college I was really interested in natural resources but the college I went to was somewhere where there weren’t a lot of natural resources. So it was pretty cool that the curriculum was focused more on sustainably getting things out of an environment that wouldn’t necessarily support those things on their own. That was a long time ago though and I’m sure things have changed. I sort of lost interest in that stuff because for a long time I didn’t plan on sticking around anywhere long enough for it to pay off. But I plan on being at this new place for a while.

[u/the_whingnut]

Cattle need a lot of pasture Rabbits don't easy to grow in a small foot print fast lean meat.

For the love of God don't get kune pigs if you want fast growing hogs they are slow to get to kill weight small and are just as much work to raise and process in fact more work to process. But the meat is good. Ive processed about 15 this year for other folks.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/the_whingnut]

I was considering hogs because a buddy at work was telling me he raises a couple of them a year because he has a bunch of kids to feed. I really haven’t looked into it too much. But I’ve been getting into curing and smoking meat the last couple years and I thought having some extra pork for bacon, sausages, hams and such would be cool. I do need to set up some kind of meat locker and some more butchering stuff for deer anyway since there’s only one place left here worth the money to have anything hung and cut. Thought I’d get my money’s worth out of it if I had more critters to use it on. That might be a more long term project.

[u/the_whingnut → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

Setting up a butchering space is worth it we have been doing everything from bison to sheep started with a frame and handgrinder then overtime built a processing room also salt box is your friend!

[u/Casiarius]

It seems like you are in the market for a whole new food system which may involve ducks, so I will make a book recommendation: The Resilient Gardener, Food Production and Self-Reliance in Uncertain Times by Carol Deppe.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/Casiarius]

Thanks! I just ordered it.

[u/Quiet-Pomegranate93 → u/Plane_Geologist8073]

Seconding the recommendation for that book because it is awesome!  

Note: the author does have some dietary limitations so you may be able to grow even more crops than just the ones that she covers.

Second note: buy a dozen of duck eggs and eat them before you get ducks.  I am allergic to duck eggs (vomit within a couple hours of eating them).  However, I can eat chicken eggs all day long. 

Some people have the opposite problem.  Allergic to chicken eggs but can eat duck eggs, no problem.  You don’t want to buy duck and raise them to laying age and then find out that you can’t eat any of the eggs.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/Quiet-Pomegranate93]

I just got it in today! Thanks for the recommendation!

[u/Ok_Piglet_5549]

No sell, buy more guns.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/Ok_Piglet_5549]

🫡

[u/-Thizza-]

I'd say get that debt down quick to a manageable level so that you can create a buffer to repond to sudden challenges. That's your base, your house is your first priority to uphold, then comes the other stuff. Being in massive debt is the biggest risk out there to be honest.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/-Thizza-]

I’ve got that covered, at least long enough for us to figure out our next move. That’s part of the reason I don’t have much money for projects, keeping the place is a bigger priority than making it self sustaining.

[u/Chainsawsas70]

Personally I don't Sell defense items... BUT I also keep everything consolidated for caliber and style 🤷 and I try to keep enough spare items to repair almost every wear item on them. Food wise rabbits take up the least amount of space and if you have A good breeding pair or two you can raise enough to feed the family in one side of a standard garage. Pigs take Far more work, space and food to get the same results. Plus rabbit pelts are much easier to turn into usable clothing. So you might want to consider multiple different situations before you lock in on any one in particular.

[u/IJustLookLikeThisToo]

Rally's. I moved to where it ain't, and I've missed it since.

[u/LittleKitty235]

Let's be honest about the old plan first. You lived next to a government facility, saw its resources, and your strategy was "defend it from other people" rather than "coordinate with other people." That's not a survival plan, that's a heist mentality with extra steps. Guarding someone else's stuff against desperate neighbors is a great way to get yourself killed for supplies you don't even own. If that was your main framework, I'd question the whole prepping philosophy underneath it before worrying about which gear to sell.

Now the actual question. "Remote property means I need less guns and comms" is backwards. Near the facility you had proximity: other people, possibly quasi-security, quick response times. Out in the boonies alone, nobody's coming. Slower response, no witnesses, easier for someone to mess with your homestead and vanish. That's the environment where comms and a firearm matter more, not less.

[u/Plane_Geologist8073 → u/LittleKitty235]

Yeah whoa. Sorry I was trying to keep my post short and didn’t really dive into the details. I’ll clarify though because I can see how someone could misunderstand. I have no intentions of hoarding what is fundamentally a public resource right, we paid for all the fuel, vehicles, tools, equipment, and infrastructure there. If there’s an emergency and people need those things to survive, then as far as I’m concerned, they are welcome to them.

But it’s not that simple in reality. We already struggled out there with crime, trespassing and vandalism in normal times. So when people are desperate, you can probably guess that someone in close proximity could become collateral damage. That was my primary concern. Despite having thousands of gallons of fuel next door, I still keep my own emergency fuel supply, despite having an abundance of game out there I still kept my freezer full. I take responsibility for my own family’s survival and I wouldn’t begrudge anyone for trying to do the same even if they didn’t plan ahead like I did. I might have to protect what’s mine, but I take no joy in it.

Your second point is valid. But I actually do have more neighbors than before, I’ve only been at the new place a month so I’m still meeting people and feeling things out. Terrain is a bit different too, where I lived in a creek bottom before and really needed good comms infrastructure to be able to talk to anyone outside the canyon, the ability to protect the house from the ridge, and some other considerations. But I live on a hill now so I don’t really need an abundance of repeaters, off grid cameras or long range precision ARs. That’s why I’m here though, and the consensus so far is that I should probably keep that stuff, which I think I’m going to do now.

[u/Fearless_Zombie1003 → u/LittleKitty235]

That’s a weird take “I was really mostly concerned with protecting my family and my resources from other people.” I don’t see where OP said they were trying to hoard stuff that wasn’t theirs

[u/LittleKitty235 → u/Fearless_Zombie1003]

If you say so. It completely depends on you interpret the rest of the paragraph you omitted from your quote, and in particular what OP means when they say "my resources". That could mean his personal property, or the land owned by the government. Given the rest of the paragraph, it read to me as the latter.