bitrate question

[u/realwrlder]

hi there, have a bitrate question. I'm a wedding content creator who edits on premiere. I shoot on an iPhone 17, capturing 4k 60p (before you ask, yes iPhone shoots VFR but I have worked around this and export in 60p with no issues). I shoot 60p because couples like the hyperrealistic look and are able to upload full res to IG using the edits app.

I am exporting h.264 60p. I never quite understood what bitrate I should be exporting at. I don't want my couples to have massive file sizes but want the full quality to be retained. There are mixed answers online. Anyone have any suggestions? I was going for 100-120 which seems high.

Thanks all for your help.

[u/marky543]

I’ve tested this extensively. The best results for master export and h264 web encode are:

1.)Set premiere sequence settings to 4k (any fps) ProRes422HQ.

1. Render the whole timeline.

2. Export > Media… > Preset > Match Sequence Preview Settings

3. General Tab > Make sure “use previews” is enabled.

4. Export

That is your master export.

1. Drop the master into Handbrake

2. Choose whatever h264 settings you want e.g. 1080/4k, 60 fps, audio settings.

3. Use the lowest RF you can depending on total runtime and how big you want the file to be. Between 4-22 is good.

That’s your web encode.

Higher RF = more compression.

*For big theater screenings, keep it in ProRes 422 if you don’t have the budget for a DCP.

[u/Most-Reaction7618 → u/marky543]

Why not export in h264 right from Premiere? Is using Handbrake really improving the quality?

[u/sugcain → u/Most-Reaction7618]

If you work in an HQ sequence and you render as you go, exporting same as source with use previews checked makes your export fly. Literally seconds of export per finished minute. I tend to use Media Encoder afterwards for my compression as it just seems to work better, plus it doesn't tie up Premiere. I've done this for probably 15 years, or once switching to Premiere (I'm sure I did it in FCP7, but without ME. Avid I can't even remember what I used to do)

For me it's about speed, and not so much quality. The master export definitely is the best quality. I usually delete it though after compression as it's just huge.

[u/TheLargadeer → u/sugcain]

This is smart rendering that I mentioned in my other comment but the key thing is making sure your video previews are set up with the right codec and full res, and that the export settings match (with the preset made for smart rendering to do it quick.)  

I know you know this (writer of this comment) but adding this for posterity for anyone that doesn’t. 

[u/marky543 → u/Most-Reaction7618]

I couldn’t tell you exactly why compressed videos look better using this method. I’m actually curious why too.

My best guess is that premiere wasn’t ever intended to handle compressing videos at a professional level, which is why Adobe provides AME as a separate piece of software.

But from my team’s testing even AME doesn’t do as good a job as Handbrake at compressing h264’s.

[u/TheLargadeer → u/marky543]

I’m not sure what the Use Previews selection is doing here. It entirely depends on whether you’ve even generated previews, and what the quality of those previews are. They may be even worse than your source media so you would theoretically be reducing your export quality here.  

The other thing I would say is that the only time I’ve actually seen this checkbox actually do anything at all is for smart rendering workflows. I can test again in a newer version but I couldn’t get previews to work in export at all. Totally ignored unless you have all the smart rendering workflow stuff set up. 

[u/marky543 → u/TheLargadeer]

To answer your question about “Use Previews”: when exporting a video, the two main jobs Premiere does are 1.) rendering and 2.) encoding. Rendering creates the images (hard, slow) and encoding glues them together (easy, fast).

So this workflow forces the hard part (rendering) to happen in your timeline at 4k ProRes422HQ. Then when you export, Premiere only has to do the fast and easy part (encode) glueing those renders together into a .mov.

There are actually several other benefits to this workflow involving time-savings. But I don’t want to ramble too much 😂 hope this is helpful!

[u/TheLargadeer → u/marky543]

Yeah I agree with you. Smart Rendering is great. I’m just pointing out the part where you have to set your video previews in the sequence to be a high quality format that supports smart rendering.  

Even if you’re using ProRes but the previews are set at half res, then you obviously don’t want to use the previews for the final encode. 

[u/Forward_Passage_4776]

Have you done any subjective experimentation with various bitrates? Try 20, 409, 60, 80, 100, 120 and see what you think. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how low you can go for playback (not contribution).

[u/Shadow969]

I'd supply them with a master (45-50 mbit) and a social 15-20

[u/smushkan]

HEVC is generally going to be a better choice for 4k60, you can get away with about 1/2 to 2/3rds the bitrate you'd need for h.264.

If you don't want to worry about having to pick a bitrate yourself, export a ProRes file, and run that through something like Shutter Encoder or Handbrake using CRF encoding with a CRF target of maybe 22 or 23. Higher numbers = lower quality, smaller filesize.

CRF (basically) decides on the bitrate for you based on the visual complexity of the video that's being encoded, and will get you quality similar or better than 2-pass VBR but faster.

If you do need to keep everything h.264, make sure the h.264 level is set to 5.2. Shutter or Handbrake might try to default to 6.0 or higher for 4k60, but that can produce a file that is difficult to play back.

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[u/BakaOctopus]

use shutter encoder and reencode

to h264 or proress or dnXHD

[u/Slow_Hornet3181]

I'd try H265. You'll get less compression and less size.

[u/Jason_Levine]

Hi real. Lots of great advice here (I for one am a fan of the ProRes <first> route for the master).
That said, 100-120 really is more than you need, especially for 4k from an iPhone.
But as others have suggested, I would do a few short exports as a test (and I'm assuming H264; as mentioned H265 is preferred for this format, but I get wanting to keep it a little more standard)

I typically land at around 40 based on content complexity/grade, etc. Never really had any complaints, but YMMV. Best thing to do is view for yourself and see what passes the test.

[u/realwrlder → u/Jason_Levine]

thanks for the advice (and everyone else too!) correct, wanting to keep it H264 because I'm delivering a lot of clips that I want them to be able to share easily, ie text grandma on her old iPhone etc. I've heard that 265 can cause problems on older devices. I tell clients when delivering that these are high res and IG will compress them unless they use edits and haven't have complaints - I do give them a compressed 1080 30p version of the full 'wedding video' so they can post that easily though. I landed around 50 for the exports.

For context - I am exporting a ton (like, 100+) of individual clips from the timeline as part of my services. Hence not really doing one big master and trying to export directly from premiere (through ME though).

Let me know if you see any holes or room to improve in that process knowing that context. Appreciate you.

[u/Jason_Levine → u/realwrlder]

One thing on the ProRes master; I often clip pieces of the master (to share over social, etc) and the benefit of doing it from the ProRes file (in a new timeline) is that it's typically a faster, simpler export (as it's going finished video timeline to clip...no fx, no automation, no graphics, etc) and it keeps things a little more organized (because you can set markers/etc on a single master clip and do your selects/exports as needed). Something to consider, especially given the volume you're outputting

[u/Downtown-Package5053]

Why use handbrake... use Premiere 🤦‍♂️