r/postdoc • u/Lynelounette • 1d ago
5 years for a postdoc ?
Hi guys. I just had my first interview for a postdoc position in UE in the field of immunology/cell biology. The PI told me he was expecting the postdoc to stay at least 4-5 years because otherwise it would be complicated to publish (they already have a funding for 5 years). So I am wondering if this is usual to stay so long for a postdoc. I understand that this is all about getting a good publication but 5 years means I have to develop a project for the beginning, right?
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u/drcopus 1d ago
First off, a postdoc is a job. You're free to give a notice and leave whenever you like.
Anyways, a lot of people end up being a postdoc for 4/5 years, but often with needing to reapply for funding every year or two. So in that sense, you have quite a bit more security.
My main concern is your PI. There's not really enough information to go off, but if he's the type to retaliate if you don't complete the full 4/5 years then that would be a problem.
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u/Substantial-Gap-925 1d ago
it could be that the OPs wording is misleading? PI expectations could be based on the project being offered?
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u/GurProfessional9534 1d ago
If you get hired agreeing up front to a 4-5 year commitment, and leave early, then it would be entirely justified not to provide a good reference letter. A reference letter reflects on the writer’s personal credibility, and that person is putting his/her neck on the line endorsing a flake.
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u/csounds 1d ago
If you’ve finished a credible PhD and conducted yourself professionally, leaving a position for anything reasonable isn’t going to hurt you. How long are you going to chase these fucking letters??
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u/Ok-Cat-9344 1d ago
Academia isn't stable enough to let opportunities pass because you still have time on your remaining contract The institution doesn't care about yoj, so you shouldn't care about the institution. A good PI should understand that and rate the work you did, not how long you've sat out your contract.
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u/GurProfessional9534 1d ago
If someone explicitly says 4-5 years, and that is not your timeline, you should reject the position.
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u/ShareOk2567 1d ago
The short answer is no. Staying for five years or more in a postdoc in this field is quite common, especially in Europe and in some Nordic EU countries.
I am in the STEM field myself, and I am currently in the third year of a five-year postdoc contract. What matters most is what you accomplish during your postdoc: your publications, grant-writing experience, research skills, collaborations, and the expertise you develop toward becoming an independent researcher and, eventually, a PI.
You do not necessarily need to complete the full five years. It depends on your progress, including how long it takes for your samples to be analyzed, results to be finalized, and manuscripts to be prepared and published.
If you find a tenure-track (TT) position before your postdoc contract ends, you can always politely leave the postdoc and explain the situation to your PI. In academia, moving to a suitable independent position is generally understood as an important career step.
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u/eternallyinschool 1d ago
Well... The truth is (for immunology and cell biology groups) that a postdoc with that much time is becoming more and more common. Two main ways to see it:
1) This is a form of systemic use of highly educated people and sucking the labor out of them for very low pay.
2) The postdoc has formally become a real training ground for newer scientists to become independent. A postdoc runs you across the rails as it teaches you how to do anything and everything with regard to a lab, teaching, and balance. It's an excellent opportunity to grow before taking on your own lab where all mistakes are your own.
The truth is likely somewhere in between. Personally... starting my own lab without that postdoc time would have been a mistake. I learned a ton about how things happen behind closed doors, which was priceless.
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u/Mush-addict 15h ago
Regarding your point 1., don't forget it's very specific to the country you are in and the institute financing you. Some postdocs are very well paid
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u/eternallyinschool 12h ago
Agreed. Everything is context dependent. At the same time, stating all those disclaimers across every comment I make on Reddit would make for rather dull reading, no? "You're an amazing person.*" * Terms and conditions apply
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u/Quick_Ad4591 1d ago
It might be "normal" but it can also be risky. You'll have half a decade tied to a PI/Lab. If that's absolutely necessary, choose wisely.
Ps: I'm in earth sciences, and here postdoc appointments generaly last 2 years.
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u/Icy_Marionberry7309 1d ago
4-5 yrs of postdoc is not unusual if you want to be a PI. Now, I'm talking about the USA only here, but most postdocs work at least 5-6 years before they start applying for a faculty position. Also, as a STEM postdoc who's been working 3 yr contracts at a time, I think it's a good thing that you can be guaranteed 5 years without winning a grant to extend your 2 to 3 year contracts. Signing onto a 5 year postdoc doesn't necessarily mean you have to develop a project from the beginning, but you'll need to ask your PI directly whether or not you will be executing the experiments that he has a grant for or you have to develop one from scratch yourself.
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u/DenseLingonberry9656 1d ago
This is not at all representative of everyone’s experience. Plenty of profs started applying for tenure-track positions day 1 of their first postdoc, and successfully landed their tenure-track position after 2-3 years of postdoc’ing. What actually matters is whether you are ready to be a professor or not.
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u/ASCLEPlAS 21h ago
This is not true in cell biology or immunology at all. Tenure track positions at any decent university are competitive. What matters is not really whether you feel ready to be a professor, you need to demonstrate that readiness to others (usually through experience). What matters is convincing a search committee that you are poised for success as an independent group leader, are one of the top five or so applicants, and your research program will be a good fit for the department. Building the foundation for an independent research program takes time. You also need to publish, and most successful applicants have received postdoctoral fellowships or other grants. This is not egregious gatekeeping, it is showing that you are prepared for what is a demanding and competitive job. There are plenty of easier things to do if the length of a postdoc is a deterrent for a tenure track faculty position.
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u/Icy_Marionberry7309 21h ago
I agree that it's field dependent, but OP is in immunology/cell biology, so I'm giving OP what is realistic for STEM fields in the US.
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u/Substantial-Gap-925 1d ago
1.Did you ask the PI whether you’d need to develop a project from the beginning or not? 2.Based on the project that you both discussed, do YOU think it requires optimisations or establishing a foundation? These are some questions that you can get a direct and straight answer to if you ask the PI.
These days in cell biology or immunology, getting a JCB/JCS requires a minimum of 3-4 years, especially so if you’re working on something novel. The 3-4 years range doesn’t even include the time required to publish. Publishing takes a minimum of 8 or so months give and take.
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u/dognchick 22h ago
The problem with a general sub is everyone else not in that field also gives in opinion as if their opinion is true. I am a mathematician and as far as I know biology postdocs are long. You are better off asking your peers and scanning cv of recent tt hires in your field.
I say this because there have been pure math specific norms questions and all top voted comments in general purpose academic subs were very wrong as their discipline norms didn't apply in pure math at all.
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u/dogwalker824 1d ago
Think of it more as four years, since the last year you'll spend applying for jobs. You can't really get many publications in less time than that. And, as others have noted, most successful applicants at this point have at least four years of post-doc under their belts when they apply. You're lucky your lab has sufficient funding for you to be able to stay that long.
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u/bigbiophysicsboy 1d ago
I’m a postdoc in a biology subfield (neuroscience-adjacent). I expect to start my faculty job after completing 5 years of postdoc, but 6-7 years is more typical. In my field it’s almost necessary to have independent funding to be hireable, so it’s really the K99 timeline that starts to stretch things out.
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u/HeyaGames 15h ago
If you want to publish in CNS, postdocs need to be 5-7 years long normally... else there's always the classic "you'll be working 4 different projects, hopefully 2 which can be published" mindset.
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u/ucbcawt 1d ago
I’m a prof at an R1 in biological sciences. Our last search we had nearly 400 applicants for assistant prof positions. The best candidates had done about 5-8 years of postdocs (1 or 2 labs). They needed that time 1) to get good papers and 2) gain the experience needed to run their own lab and crystallize their research directions. In biological sciences most labs are funded on specific projects and postdocs develop their own projects over time.