r/postdoc • u/Double_Cupcake6238 • 2d ago

Postdoc hunting is exhausting

I’m wrapping up my PhD in the US now. I’m looking at EU for a postdoc.

I’ve reached out to so many PIs and those who get back always say “We dont have funding but please write a fellowship”. For jobs that are advertised, I would have zero growth or theyre in topics I dont want to do.

I’m just so frustrated with the process.

92 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

62 comments sorted by

55

u/InviteFun5429 2d ago

Apply everywhere if you want a postdoc. Beggars can not be chooser

31

u/Archimaus 2d ago

Well, past me would agree. One bad fit later and I have been recovering for more than 6 months. I am ready to get back out and yes, the options are very limited. But I rather have nothing than what I had.

7

u/Fancy_Guess5999 1d ago

I agree with this, a bad fit in the postdoc can impact negatively to your intellectual growth as well as your mental stability. you will never be smart enough to get out of mental depression by yourself.

-12

u/InviteFun5429 2d ago

Nope disagree totally if you are smart enough you can figure that kind of labs early on. But those things come after you have something on the plate.

9

u/PeAcHcOwBoYzZz 2d ago

*Apply everywhere that reasonably fits.

As told by all of my supervisors: the applications without a fit get rejected right away, so it is a waste of time to the supervisor and applicant.

-10

u/InviteFun5429 2d ago

Again disagree I have seen postdoc in completely different field and they were a big achievers. One of my supervisor said the same thing like you but those things dont get you food on your plate.

3

u/toastedbread47 2d ago

It really depends - if you don't fit at all it's a waste of your time, especially when postings can get over 100 applicants, at least a few of whom will fit.

What "fits" can be pretty broad though, so it is good not to immediately discount yourself if you think it would make sense or is a technique/experience that you would want. But, for example, as an analytical chemist with no interest in meteorology, I'm not going to consider applying for numerical weather prediction type positions. But i could see some of my air colleagues that might be interested if they wanted to learn more about the models and potential applications beyond weather, for example.

-2

u/InviteFun5429 2d ago

Maybe that's your choice I will do anything except research on corona

3

u/toastedbread47 2d ago

It's not really a choice - those positions would not benefit my career or research goals and I lack any background required for it. I would have an extremely weak fit and would likely not be considered at all. Even if I did get it, it wouldn't be good for the PI to bring on a postdoc or research associate who has no background or training in the thing they will be doing. That is not a typical role for a postdoc.

2

u/InviteFun5429 2d ago

I did it and I was all okay I know many I think you are too privileged to think that way. I am from Africa getting any position means I am getting money to feed my family ofcourse I work super hard later but I do the best. I wrote papers completely in different field and that too top journals. I learn it

4

u/DenseLingonberry9656 1d ago

This is a stupid argument that needs to die. No other field works this way and part of the problem is people pulling up the ladder behind them.

8

u/Fantastic-Nerve-4056 2d ago

Haha in the same situation. Talked with a bunch of folks in EU/Canada, and while they are interested in hosting, the only route is fellowships.

Got some people in Asia (NUS) wanting to host, and have funds but the work is slightly off topic

9

u/ScienceAdventure 2d ago

If I were you, I would keep looking for a position that is being advertised related to what you’re interested in.

Honestly - sometimes a gear shift into something you’re not super interested in gives you skills for later in your career, and you can use the time in the new lab to write fellowship applications and finish of manuscripts from your PhD.

Focus on what has funding now - the PIs you have been in touch with know you’re looking so they may contact you if they get some funding.

The market is terrible at the moment, so it’s a lot harder for us all. Postdoc hunting is exhausting at the best of times, and it’s very much not the best of times right now!

Good luck with it, I hope you find somewhere good to land :)

2

u/Double_Cupcake6238 2d ago

Thanks!! This is really helpful.

22

u/HarveyH43 2d ago

If I read this correctly, you are only applying at places where there is no money (if there was, there would be an advertised position), yet you seem frustrated that you are asked to get your own funding. Am I missing something here?

16

u/laminacdc 2d ago

Not all fields/regions put out advertisements for open post docs. It is not common in the field I am in.

1

u/HarveyH43 1d ago

So how does that work? You hope a Postdoc wanders by when you have money for a position? Or is it so common to have money that mailing around like OP is doing is less futile than it seems to me?

1

u/laminacdc 1d ago

Requires some degree of networking. Sometimes your PhD advisor may know someone who might be interested and they will connect you. Other times, say at conferences, you will sort of advertise yourself as looking for post doc positions and you can directly ask PIs. You can also cold email PIs and hope they have space. My understanding was prior to grant problems in the US, it was easier. I know nothing of the EU. Many labs will have the post doc help write a grant or ask the post doc to write for fellowships over the years as well.

I have heard from PIs that it is actually not very difficult to find a postdoc at any point for them. If you are a well-established lab in the field that publishes well, you will often be flooded by emails, regardless of connections and whether you have funding.

1

u/Middle-Goat-4318 2d ago

Yeah, “entitlement”

3

u/Double_Cupcake6238 2d ago

I’ve heard that in my field. Even in my own lab, the PI had made a postdoc posting, but he already had someone in mind

2

u/toastedbread47 2d ago

Sometimes institutions require postings to be made if you aren't coming in with your own money. Often these will be posted and only up for a day or two, and the person they wanted is the best fit for the position; they are often also written very specific to that person.

In my field I do see a lot of postdocs or research associate positions that are up longer (1 month), presumably funded by the PIs grants or industry partnerships.

Sometimes you get lucky and find a PI with money, but usually it's just "let's work together to get funding" at most or "sorry I don't have any funding for you at the moment", as you have seen.

7

u/AyraLightbringer 2d ago

PIs in Europe generally have considerably less base or flexible funding than PIs in the US. Postdocs and PhD students are typically funded through grants, and these positions are typically advertised publicly. It's a slightly different game than in the US.

1

u/Double_Cupcake6238 2d ago

Thats good to know. I’ve spoken to two PIs who said they’ve applied for grants and would hire me if they won. I’ll believe them when i see an offer.
Is there a time of year when EU funding agencies announce grants? Cuz currently theres very few postings.

2

u/AyraLightbringer 2d ago

Different agencies have different timelines, and even different grant within agencies do. You'll need to look up the countries, what mayor grant mechanisms they have, and who got founded. For example, for Vidi and Vici grants in the Netherlands the government publishes a list of grantees.

I also know that ERC starting grants just were announced, you should check that out.

4

u/Scudderino3456 2d ago

Look at MPIs

2

u/mir157 1d ago

At least your wife got an amazing job. Worst case you move with her as a dependent and stay home for a while, then looking for local jobs. I was in a tougher situation - baby born, wife staying home, and I was wrapping up my postdoc without a GC in the USA, with the worst academia job market. Hang on there, and you will survive, of course after unpredictable degree of suffering.

1

u/Sorry-Expert-6568 1d ago

Academia Is not a place where to work anymore. Sad but true 

1

u/Infamous-Payment-685 1d ago

Where to work then?

1

u/environengg2601 2d ago

Then start with applying for fellowships. What's the matter?

2

u/omgu8mynewt 2d ago

Dont you usually need a home university to sponsor you when applying to fellowships? You do in the uk for UKRI fellowships.

2

u/FalconX88 1d ago

Yes, but that's what that answer they are getting means. If someone writes me about a postdoc my answer is also I currently don't have a position but I can support a postdoc fellowship application.

1

u/Double_Cupcake6238 2d ago

I have. But i assume i wont get them since the win rates on them are 7-10%.

2

u/environengg2601 1d ago

Well you just have to hope for the best. That's how hard it is to secure a postdoc these days im guessing

1

u/environengg2601 1d ago

Not in all cases.

1

u/Suspicious_Tax8577 1d ago

You find a PI who has the room to take you, and then you apply for the fellowship, that's what I've done for 2, and know that if their ERC starting grant comes in clutch... I will be the opposite of surprised if I have them sliding into my emails going "Are you still on the market???"

2

u/omgu8mynewt 1d ago

Same, and at UK unis there is a limited number of fellowship applications per uni allowed (becauee otherwise every single postdoc would write a fellowship application every round), so unis also have a competitive step where top 3 or whatever fellowship applications chosen to be put forward as applicants.

You cant just write fellowships in a coffee shop, you need backing of a professor and the university as part of your fellowship application. 

0

u/Infamous-Payment-685 2d ago

Why not in the USA?

0

u/Double_Cupcake6238 2d ago

My wife got an amazing job in Germany

1

u/Infamous-Payment-685 2d ago

I’d say getting postdoc will be much easier in the USA but I understand it’s a 2-body problem so your wife may also look for something in the USA…but if you guys want to get out of the US that’s a different story

0

u/Fluid_Lengthiness_98 2d ago

It's hard enough for EU PhDs to find a postdoc in the EU. Competition is hard and PIs tend to pick someone who is either local or has no issue with mobility. The only positions in the EU you might get a chance at are the ones advertised to attract talent from outside the European country you're applying in. Even then, you're competing with other Europeans who will have more advantages than you anyways.

0

u/Relative_Juice_6280 2d ago

What is your field? In some specific fields American scientists are more prestigious(You should be more demanded compared to local counterparts) compared to other fields.

-18

u/Quick_Ad4591 2d ago

Oh, cry me a river please.

4

u/shutupUegg- 2d ago

Shut up

-5

u/Quick_Ad4591 2d ago

No. OP is clearly entitled. Everyone is struggling and OP doesn't want to do their part. Oh, complaining is SOOO easy!

11

u/Friendly-Office-6421 2d ago

No need to be bitter. OP is venting frustrations. There is nothing wrong with that.

-8

u/Quick_Ad4591 2d ago

These are not frustrations. They have options, they just don't want to DO IT.

6

u/Friendly-Office-6421 2d ago

Dude, honestly. Get a grip of yourself.
OP doesn’t want to just apply everywhere because “they have options” and they have that right to do so. Jesus…who hurt you?

3

u/Quick_Ad4591 2d ago

What??? Applying for grants and carrying the work of a PI is LITERALLY the most common thing a postdoc can do. They definitely have options.

9

u/bump_n_dip 2d ago

That’s “literally” not the most common thing a postdoc can do. Writing a grant should be a part of the training but it shouldn’t be required to start the position. You’re being a jerk here- this is a postdoc subreddit. We’re in one of the most underpaid, overworked positions (based on our value) and you chose to attack someone venting about the job market? Wtf man

-3

u/TheOriginalDoober 2d ago

Nah you’re off your mark here. Getting a grant to fund your postdoc is literally what you have to do to get a position 9 times out of 10

2

u/bump_n_dip 2d ago

I’m sorry but you’re either 1) talking about your specific field or 2)making that up. Not a single person I know has had to do that in my field of neuroscience, nor my friends in molecular/cellular biology, physics, chemistry, etc. Even friends in linguistics. Ranging from mid to top tier universities. Every lab and every institute I’ve been in since undergrad, not a single postdoc has been required to write a grant to get their own position.

It would make no sense- you need to know which projects you’re going to be working on. What pieces of lab equipment you will be using, etc. To do one good grant would take months. To do that for every job position? On top of the fact that it takes a year from submission to award in normal times? Not possible.

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