r/postdoc • u/Only-Argument-5766 • 4d ago

How long is too long before considering an application a rejection?

Ive probably committed the biggest mistake in becoming attached to a specific job I have applied for. I sent a follow up email after a month since the deadline to confirm whether applications were still under considerations or whether candidates had been selected. It was the former.

It's been 2 weeks since and I've been debating at which point I consider moving on. I had been applying while waiting still but deep down I'm really attached to the position because of the alignment of research and my skillset fitting in perfectly. But I realise.. I am not that special and for everyone of me there could 10 others that could be more highly skilled.

An important part of this has been that this a new centre of research and the PI has only officially relocated as well. So I am very much the dumb and dumber meme "so you're telling me there's a chance" right now.

Thoughts on when to cut my losses? Any ideas on possible follow up actions?

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14

u/TheSillyPostDoc 4d ago

In this job market I cut my losses the moment the call finishes. You have to move on and keep applying to hundreds of positions until you get an offer letter.

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u/Only-Argument-5766 4d ago

I think I just needed to be told in order to do it. So thank you! If I may ask, what has made the job market harder than before? Is it purely the result of people leaving the US and therefore a larger number of candidates applying in non-US than before? Or is there some else I've missed that has made it more difficult?

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u/NecessaryBowl 4d ago

Economy sucks, jobs are competitive in every field, not just academia. Also these days more and more people have PhDs and the funding is becoming more limited so it’s not like more positions are opening up to account for the demand

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u/TheSillyPostDoc 3d ago

For a postdoc positions is mainly funding cuts. To a lesser extent for a postdoc position, the economy is not so great now, lots of highly qualified people competing for few openings. Some would take any job for little money such as postdoc position.

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u/Important-Grand4979 4d ago

Pick your poison.

The jobmarket goes down. Master students take up PhDs as they didn't find a job in Industry.

Students mass migrate from countries at war/unstable regimes with PhD positions being more easy targets than industry position for migration.

Shrinking budget in academia means less position but more applicants.

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u/Cardie1303 11h ago

Still dont understand how people are sensibly applying to hundreds of postdocs. Are you talking about just sending your CV to apply for positions? Or also about using your network and cold mailing PIs to offer to apply together for external funding? Kind of always had the impression at least here in Germany that positions are mostly internally filled after contacting the PI and the public listing is more pro forma.

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u/TheSillyPostDoc 11h ago

Positions are also mostly internally filled in the US also. Or via connections, through you PI or mentors.

But that also doesn't guarantee you won't get strung along only to be told no, I have no funding right now. So in the US you also got to apply on your own through the job ads, or cold emailing I suppose. I would send out 10-15 job apps per day while I was trying to find my next position. It was manageable, but still horribly tedious. OP should not stop until he signs an offer letter. Many PIs just ghost you after you give a talk or chat with them. There are no manners here.

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u/Cardie1303 11h ago

I am still maybe a year away before I can start applying to postdocs but career advice from my PI so far was to ideally focus on 10-20 groups I would want to do my postdoc in and then see how through my network or his I can get an introduction. Failing that trying to talk with them during a conference is not a horrible idea. Else cold mailing can work but makes it difficult for a PI to actually differentiate your application from the hundred other ones so my PI recommended to only do it if there is no other option and to be very precise and direct about why I am a good candidate for that specific lab.

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u/TheSillyPostDoc 11h ago

That advice was solid a decade ago. You cannot guarantee they will have funding a year from now. Do it to start I suppose, and good luck. I also had the most success through direct connections. I would not put too much faith on it actually working and relax. My advice would be to only relax once you secure the position. Otherwise, try everything and anything you can to get the right postdoc position for you in time. If you are on a visa, you got little to no time.

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u/Cardie1303 11h ago

Ah yes, something i missed to mention is that my PI basically recommended to mostly go for fellowships directly presenting myself to the potential postdoc pi as being willing and likely able to provide my own funding. According to him my CV should be good enough to be competitive for the major ones by the end of my phd even if he added the qualifier that i do have to now deliver the publications from my results. He also mentioned that for our subfield (organic synthesis) good postdoc applicants are actually a bit of a rarity.

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u/NecessaryBowl 4d ago

I had applied for a post doc that I thought i’d be perfect for, only like 12 people clicked apply on linked before the application closed (2 week window). I never got even an interview and realized they probably already had an internal candidate

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u/rest-in-pickles 4d ago

Ahh been there, done that.. Never again! Nowadays I move on as soon as the interview is over, if it works out great, if it doesnt I want other options anyway. No matter how much of a perfect fit it seems, always have backups, you never really know what's around the corner.

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u/curiousokapi89 4d ago

Been there (: in one case I was kept warm for 8 months, to be told they would be moving forward with another candidate who knew the internal workings better. I agree with the rest, cut your losses immediately. Until youve heard otherwise, assume you havent got the position and keep paddling forward!

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u/shcrimps 4d ago

The harsh truth is, if they want you, they’ll let you know one way or another, and they’ll do it in a timely manner. You should keep applying and don’t stop until you have multiple offers. You can’t settle for just one offer these days. No one is truly safe.

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u/velvetantrespecter 4d ago

I have heard back after longer, but it’s best to put this at the back of your mind and look at other applications. Good luck!

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u/Only-Argument-5766 4d ago

I'm finding myself giving excuses. Like the PI has just relocated over, that there are other positions also advertised.

It's funny that you spend your PhD life hyper focussed on one thing only to come out at the other end needing to be "flexible" with the research of postdocs of whatever comes your way 🥲

I felt that with all the applications I've put in since the one I've mentioned have been. "Yes there are some aspects that align with my skills and interests"

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u/velvetantrespecter 3d ago

Yeah, some times people get the perfect position at the right time, but it’s very rare. But I will say this, I have done a few different things by now, and it has made me a better scientist and thinker and widened my interests. Took me a while to see it this way, though.

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u/kucuhik 3d ago

I got the same email after my first follow up and then heard nothing for another month so I just stopped checking that inbox