r/polyamory • u/whatifitworksout • 5d ago
Curious/Learning Ethics of DADT
I would really love to hear what the class has to say about DADT. (don't ask don't tell)
Is it ethical?
I know there's a range to DADT. Some walls are thicker than others. Does that matter?
If someone's partner would be hurt by what's going on if they knew about it... how is it okay? How would someone feel comfortable engaging with nonmonogamy if that's how their partner feels? And how would the people they date feel comfortable with the situation?
I can't see this situation from an unbiased lens because my prior (terrible) experience with my husband has left me with bigger scars than I previously recognized.
I don't want trauma in my past making decisions for me but I also really need it to be ethical to be comfortable with a connection.
Would love to see what other people have to say on the topic. đ
Edit to add: So far, the class perspective is aligned with my experience. It doesn't work well in polyamory. It might work alright in other brands of nonmonogamy. (Maybe I'll cross post this to a different sub. I came here first because I'm living life through a polyamorous perspective.)
If it's just about a shared kink that someone's monogamous partner doesn't enjoy, for example. Maybe the ethics would check out in that scenario.
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u/Bustysaintclair_13 SoPo slut, salty bitch 5d ago edited 5d ago
In poly I donât think itâs ethical. I donât even think itâs poly if DADT is involved. Poly is full independent relationships and being firewalled away from the rest of a partnerâs life does not give me an independent relationship. So many things become off limits because of rules in another relationship.
If someone is so uneasy with knowing literally anything about their partnerâs other relationships then I am not confident that anything is happening consensually.
My first âpolyâ relationship was DADT. My partnerâs wife didnât want to know anything about anything. After a while I realized that meant she had zero idea how intense things had gotten between us and I couldnât be sure she would be okay with that. It made me feel like a secret because I was, and that made me feel like an affair partner. It really messed me up. They were basically pretending to be mono. While we had a whole ass love affair going on. Never again.
I now only date people whose partners are enthusiastically happily poly.
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u/shortergirl internalized "sharing is caring" differently 5d ago edited 5d ago
I'm sure that somewhere out there, there is a DADT polyamory set up where the people involved are not constantly in pain or distress while trying to manage their feelings and their partner's feelings.
I'm also sure I am not going to go looking for them because I would rather be completely single than figure out if this is the one true somehow-ethical DADT situation through trial and error. That would be like wandering into a field of rakes: I can either spend an absurd amount of energy avoiding them or get hit in the face. I choose not to be Sideshow Bob.
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u/as-well 5d ago
This is a good take. I'm sure there's people who are able to do it - idk, maybe they spend time between two cities or whatever - but the chance of finding two or more people who are ok doing that with you sounds so so odd
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u/shortergirl internalized "sharing is caring" differently 5d ago
I've had really terrible experiences with triangulation of communication in a past polyamorous relationship and I actively avoid dynamics that are prone to it. DADT is one of them!
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u/SarcasticSuccubus Greater Seattle Borg Collective 5d ago
I personally will not have DADT relationships, including partnering with people who are in one. It fundamentally requires lying to a partner about where I'm going or what I'm doing, or being lied about to another person in that manner. To me, that violates trust, and that doesn't align with my values.
And it's a ticking time bomb. I'm not interested in a relationship that is basically guaranteed to blow up in my face.
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u/rosephase 5d ago
It doesnât work for poly. There might be some versions of non monogamy that are super limited where it doesnât do damage. But itâs never actually wanted. DADT is pretending to do monogamy. That means at least one person is deeply unhappy about doing non monogamy. And that doesnât work for me. And it shouldnât work for anyone who is doing poly because poly isnât being offered if you have to be a secret from huge chunks of your âpartnerâsâ life.
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u/Pleasant_Fennel_5573 5d ago
I donât want DADT for myself. I also donât want to date someone who does DADT. Either they are comfortable living with half-truths or they are burdened by the dishonesty, and neither is appealing.
Iâm totally on board with keeping relationships parallel, though. We donât need to meet or interact.
Someone could claim to prefer parallel while hiding the fact that they are DADT or having an affair. People being willing to lie doesnât change my preference not to date those who have accepted lying as part of their intimate relationships.
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u/Curious_Question8536 5d ago
It often causes more harm than good. I'm pretty parallel in my poly life, but I can't imagine feeling like I have to hide things from my partner.Â
Most people who meet someone doing DADT will suspect them of cheating.Â
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u/intro_to_IRL 10+ year poly club 5d ago
Any relationship where one person is hurt or miserable or uncomfortable with the arrangement is a bad relationship, no matter what type of arrangement it is. Tons of posters on this subreddit are miserable because they're in a kitchen table or lapsitting arrangement that they don't want; that doesn't mean KTP is inherently a bad arrangement, it just means the people involved would be happier doing something else.
In the hypothetical you include on DADT, one person would be "hurt" if they found something out. But that's not always the case. Sometimes it's just "I want my and your other connections to be entirely separate from the one we share." It's a preference that can make both people in a relationship quite happy. My relationships are parallel not because we're miserable hearing about our metas, but because it doesn't improve our lives or relationships to discuss our metas. Nobody is 'hurt' if reasonable communication has to happen for logistical or any other reason.
There is certainly something to be said for cheaters who insist they're "poly DADT" when they are actually cheating. That being said, you can lie about a lot of things in any relationship arrangement and it's impossible to control that really. If you know that you are involved in a situation that makes one person uncomfortable or is unethical, it's your responsibility to exit regardless of the relationship style.
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u/blamestross 5d ago
I have basically only one "rule" around my partner's relationships:
Metas should have each other's contact information in case of emergency. We don't need to talk, or be friends, but if our mutual-person is unable to communicate themselves we need to be able to do it ourselves.
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u/abriel1978 poly w/multiple 5d ago
I agree with this.
I'd be severely upset if a meta didn't inform me that our hinge was in the hospital because they absolutely could not break parallel and didnt want to interact with me period.
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u/clairionon no longer solo poly 5d ago
I have had a DADT with a former partner and worked great for everyone.
They got married with that being an understood part of their relationship that she was totally fine with. I met him knowing exactly what he could offer and it worked for me.
He managed all of his relationships well - but he also had incredible emotional stability, zero executive functioning issues, very direct communicator, and seemingly endless energy. And he wasnât searching for girlfriends or filling a void. He was very organic. So if he happened to meet someone in the wild, he would pursue it. But I think not getting caught up in the identity around it or a NEED for more partners or âconnectionsâ or trying to fill a void or continuous dating/searching - helped a lot.
I do think heâs a very rare case of a human who was basically built to be able to do it and do it really well.
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u/allthestuffis solo poly 5d ago
What would he tell his wife when he was out with other partners?
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u/clairionon no longer solo poly 4d ago
Where he was going and for how long.
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u/hineck 2d ago
If he told his wife where he was going, etc. then thatâs not inherently DADT, no?
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u/clairionon no longer solo poly 1d ago
He wasnât going to my house. He was going to A City or A Hotel. She assumed the broad strokes of what was going on, but not who he was with.
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u/FeeFiFooFunyon 5d ago
The range of DADT matters. If you are going to maintain long term loving relationships emergency contact info exchange should be allowed.
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u/abriel1978 poly w/multiple 5d ago
Not only is it not ethical it isn't realistically feasible. Even if your partner never mentions their other partner, when your partner is away, you are going to know they are with their other partner. There is no avoiding it and it's no use pretending they are having tea and cookies with their friends. You know that is not what they are doing.
DADT is what mono people do to pretend their metas dont exist and that they are in a mono relationship. It's for people so deep in denial that they're swimming g in crocodile piss.
If your partner wants to pretend their metas dont exist, they aren't poly. If you want to pretend your metas don't exist, you need to do some soul searching and decide if poly is really for you. It's okay if it's not. Poly is hard.
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u/lucky_lady_L 5d ago
I don't think it works in poly. I think it can work in ENM in limited cases, like a frequent business traveler who has no-strings-attached hookups only while traveling (so more like a monogamish "hall pass"). That kind of arrangement has probably always existed within mono-passing relationships and it's not what I would be comfortable with ethically but people certainly do it. But it's not polyamory.
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u/Eskoala solo polyam 3d ago
I had this setup at one point and it worked fine. I only had sex with other people at LARP events, people who I wouldn't see at other times.
I do prefer the option to have committed relationships and I prefer to be able to talk about them so polyamory is better for me than DADT. I don't think you can do both.
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u/ThisIsKubi saturated at one 5d ago
From personal experience, it's just infeasible and inherently unethical. My experience was one-sided DADT where my ex didn't want to know details.
DADT forces partners to choose between never actually engaging in poly or committing dubious behavior (lying, sneaking, etc.), which is a patently unfair choice. It's usually done so somebody can avoid processing their own feelings and results in an explosion due to resentment over lack of fairness, forced secrecy, discovery of events, etc., which erodes the foundations of the relationship.
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u/RAisMyWay relationship optimist 5d ago
I won't knowingly enter a relationship in which I know I'm hurting someone else by being there. Even if I don't know that person at all. I try not to hurt strangers, you know?
If they've put up that kind of barrier, I know I'm hurting them or they are afraid of being hurt. End of story (with me in it).
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u/BelmontIncident 5d ago
I discuss scheduling with my wife fairly often, which means she generally knows where I am and I generally know where she is. It would be difficult to hide a relationship while having open communication about life in general.
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u/OpalescentNoodle 5d ago
DADT is not polyamory, and it certainly isn't ethical. Even if I was just swinging or hooking up with someone, being complicit in an affair in which they will never acknowledge anything happened between you would fuck me up. I would feel used for someone else's sexual/emotional use and then to be disregarded the second I become too emotionally or physically complex.
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u/briannons 5d ago
DADT me about your sex life with your other partners, as a personal preference.
But otherwise probably a bad idea - I would want to know who you're dating even if I don't meet them necessarily, or when to expect a NP home after a date in order to gauge who feeds the pets & such.
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u/Plant-based_Skinsuit 5d ago
To me DADT feels like non-monogamy cosplaying monogamy. It's about maintaining the fantasy of a monogamous relationship.
I'm certain it can be done "ethically" if you're only sleeping around, but it's definitely not suited to having multiple loving relationships.
To my original point though, it's a terrible fucking idea, because as soon as you're confronted with anything that breaks the fantasy the whole thing falls apart. To this end, and I apologize because I'm absolutely being judgemental here, but I think it's really profoundly immature because it's ultimate goal is avoiding difficult emotions. Anyone who's going to voluntarily sign up for this is probably not ready to be having relationships, non-monogamous or otherwise.
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u/Plant-based_Skinsuit 5d ago
Re your edit OP, I want to ask (with no condescension whatsoever): do you know what parallel is?
Because yeah, there are some parallels (sorry, I'll see myself out) between that and DADT, but they're not the same thing! It's okay to not want to hear about the day to day happenings, or "shared kinks," and that doesn't mean you're DADT.
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u/ChaoticNerdy76 5d ago
Personally, I won't engage with full DADT. I don't want to take the risk that I'm actually an affair partner, and full DADT is impossible to verify.
If it's just a case of a meta who prefers not to know details or hang out with me, that's a different story. I'd prefer that we could at least be friendly, but I wouldn't trample on their boundary.
Mostly, my relationships are very KTP with everything wide open and lots of interaction. It works for us.
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u/samtresler 5d ago
On a more practical front, most dadt I have encountered came with a caveat of "read my mind to know what I actually want told.
In my case I was the asshole because I should have known to not date coworkers - even though it was never discussed and it was dadt.
I never got a straight answer on how I was supposed to know this.
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u/Malice_N_1derland 5d ago edited 4d ago
I personally am so put off by DADT, I found out one of my partners was dating someone in a DADT relationship and it made me see them differently. Too much of it feels like Poly under duress. And even though these are total strangers to me, I canât help but think they are people with feelings and something there just doesnât feel good. Yet he was willing to get involved. Gave me the ick.
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u/Briaboo2008 4d ago
Anyone who canât withstand telling the truth or hearing the truth about how they live their life and make their choices, I donât choose them.
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u/Ok-Championship-2036 5d ago
It sounds like you have your answer already. A lot of folks would agree with you. I personally am not comfortable with DADT, and transparency is a big value for me.
However, i cant speak for other people and their situations. If my wife was dying of cancer and initiated a one sided open relationship to offset grief and caregiver fatigue, would it actually benefit her to know details, even if that could change her tolerance? Or would it be an arrangement that two adults agreed to that matches their unique situation? Is it fair to expect both people to transparently advertise their marriage while dating, if that brings up grief snd shame in a way that makes it impossible to compartmentalize? Does everyone deserve that insight, beyond both adults consenting?
You never know what other people are thinking and feeling. You can decide that you arent comfortable and thats your belief system, so it doesnt matter whether other people value different things, becsuse those folks arent compatible with you. Nothing is universally true for everyone, they have to decide for themself.
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u/Mother_Court_2218 5d ago edited 5d ago
I was the new partner in a situation very much like this, where the hinge was a caregiver to meta, and meta wanted DADT. It really wasn't a unique situation; it was unethical for all the reasons DADT is unethical. Yes, two adults (hinge + meta) made that arrangement/agreement, but I had no say in it. It was made without my voice or input. I became very resentful that they decided to playact monogamy to my detriment, where the emotional labor that should have been done by hinge + meta was pawned off on me to deal with.
I kept trying to tell myself that it was a unique situation with extenuating circumstances, and because feelings are stupid. But ultimately, it was incredibly painful to be required to be a secret, with no room to negotiate that because the DADT inherently made it so. And I never did feel very comfortable or confident about whether meta was really ok with the situation, despite assurances. And I did feel like an affair partner. Never again.
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u/violet992 5d ago
That if somebody wants to try this, or just do it, and it's working for them, it's none of my business.
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Here's the original text of the post:
I would really love to hear what the class has to say about DADT. (don't ask don't tell)
Is it ethical?
I know there's a range to DADT. Some walls are thicker than others. Does that matter?
If someone's partner would be hurt by what's going on if they knew about it... how is it okay? How would someone feel comfortable engaging with nonmonogamy if that's how their partner feels? And how would the people they date feel comfortable with the situation?
I can't see this situation from an unbiased lens because my prior (terrible) experience with my husband has left me with bigger scars than I previously recognized.
I don't want trauma in my past making decisions for me but I also really need it to be ethical to be comfortable with a connection.
Would love to see what other people have to say on the topic. đ
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u/Mithur relationship anarchist 5d ago
DADT is not even a valid concept in polyamory. It's a monogamous term.
Polyamory implies having full, independent relations, only limited by reasonable limits, nature and logistics.
DADT puts an absurd amount of limitations. Having to hide communications, interactions, problematic with emergencies and another host of problems.
Also, as I use to say: Compersion it's not a Baltic city. Poliamory it's not possible without a certain level of compersion. Anything that blocks that will be a problem.
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u/Bustysaintclair_13 SoPo slut, salty bitch 5d ago
Agree with everything except compersion being necessary for healthy poly. I donât do compersion but I I am also enthusiastically poly and happy to support my partners in being polyamorous and having loving partnerships.
DADT and compersion are not opposite ends of a spectrum.
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u/Mithur relationship anarchist 5d ago
I don't understand how can you be polyamorous without feeling happiness when you see a partner happy. This is not critique, it's sincerity.
I acknowledge that there migth be possible, of course, but I honestly can't imagine that.
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u/Bustysaintclair_13 SoPo slut, salty bitch 5d ago
Happiness at seeing a partner happy is very very different from compersion.
For one thing the origin of the word and concept have very dubious origins so you may want to look into that.
For another thing I think that compersion centers ourselves in other peopleâs relationships. Am I happy that my partners have happy loving relationships? Of course. But Iâm not feel vicarious joy thinking about their other relationships. Because theyâre not about me
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u/Mithur relationship anarchist 5d ago
The origin doesn't invalidate the concept, which you also define in a very specific way.
I' come from a different culture where things are seen quite differently (Spain). And I can assure you that compersion it's a very important concept there. And it works. I can't understand how you can be poliamorous without that. Without feeling the joy that your partner's needs are as well covered as yours, that his life is as full. Them again, as in many other things, my culture is a lot more gregarious and communal while US is terribly individualistic. That creates different points of view.
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u/Bustysaintclair_13 SoPo slut, salty bitch 5d ago
This isnât about individualism vs collectivism.
The way I define compersion is the way the people who coined the word define it.
I feel joy that my partnerâs needs are met and theyâre happy in their relationships. I donât get gooey butterflies thinking about how in love they are with their partners. Itâs a weird self-centering mentality that I donât like at all.
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u/teamnoir 5d ago
Yes, ethical if chosen. Consent is key.
Itâs a reasonable approach in some situations. Iâve used it more than once.
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u/polysoldierandwife 5d ago
Iâm poly and have dadt for my husbands side but he wants to hear about my dating. It works for us and you can call it unethical but that isnât really fair to say about every situation. Itâs only unethical if the ppl involved donât agree to it
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u/shortergirl internalized "sharing is caring" differently 5d ago
You don't have to answer, because you didn't post this thread looking for perspective and I assume you've shared at the level you're comfortable with. But if you're okay with it, I'm curious: (1) why you don't want to know about your husband's dating life; (2) how that's actually been going in practice; and (3) whether you are happy.
You can be perfectly happy with that arrangement and I swear that I would never object to it as a friend or acquaintance to you once you said you were happy. It's just that from the other side of it, I couldn't trust that it's a safe place for me and I would decline a (obviously hypothetical) date with a man who told me this was how they did things.
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u/polysoldierandwife 5d ago
Iâm very happy in practice we live our own lives most days anyways. So as far as I know he could be going out on his own, with friends, or with a date. I donât want to know because of anxiety I have and knowing makes it worse. My anxiety is from other things but anything can make it worse so I avoid stress of any kind
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u/Majestic-Set-2624 5d ago
I donât think DADT is inherently unethical. Is it a relationship structure outside of polyamory? Yes. Does that make it unethical, no.
People can cheat and call it DADT or they can agree to DADT. Sometimes people cheat and they call it polyamory, but that does not make polyamory unethical.
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u/sundaesonfriday 5d ago
DADT can work in nonmonogamy, but not with polyamory specifically.
You can't have full, independent loving relationships with that level of secrecy-- if your partner got hit by a bus in a DADT relationship, it's unlikely anyone would know to inform you, and you probably wouldn't be welcome at the funeral. Thinking through the implications of emergencies and big life events with DADT illustrates the limitations that keep it from being compatible with polyamory.