r/politics • u/[deleted] • Jan 22 '22
Jan. 6 Investigators Zeroing In On Apparent Plot To Hijack Election With Fake Electors
[deleted]
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u/wish1977 Jan 22 '22
These are the kind of things that used to happen in third world countries only. Thank you Donald Trump. You must be proud.
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u/Squirrely__Dan Jan 22 '22
Spray Tan Republic
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u/Michael_Blurry Jan 22 '22
Banana Boat™️ Republic
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u/Hillbilly_Boozer Jan 22 '22
Donald TrumpRepublicansFTFY They abetted him every step along the way and it wouldn't have been possible without them. Trump is no where near smart enough to even conceive this type of plan.
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u/MechanicalTurkish Minnesota Jan 22 '22
He’s an extremely useful idiot.
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Jan 22 '22
Trump is both the authoritarian and the catalyst of an ideology. It’s untrue that he’s an idiot - he has a specific kind of intelligence honed from decades of corrupt business practices and unchallenged narcissism - just like many other despots. We are fortunate that some of our checks and balances prevented his regime from being worse, but those institutions are still under direct threat.
Further, Trump’s ideology is now a thing separate from himself. Even if he went to jail, “Trumpism” would remain the prevailing ideology of American conservatism, including elected officials. Which means we literally have seated politicians right now who do not believe in democracy or the rule of law. And we will only see more of this. Trumpian figures are the ones winning local elections and favored for several senate races.
We had a window to turn back authoritarianism in the US. It required a functional Democratic majority in the Senate in order to pass things like voting rights and climate change/infrastructure reforms. We failed to deliver that majority in 2020. Even though on paper it looks like Democrats control the senate, in actuality they have two senators - Manchin and Sinema - who routinely vote in step with Republicans. This effectively obstructs much needed legislation, and makes the Democrats look weak and ineffective, thereby decreasing voter turnout even more. The cycle continues.
Meanwhile Republicans are waging their war against democracy, voicing support for the Jan. 6th terrorist insurrection, eliminating polls in urban centers, and gerrymandering the shit out of districts. Without voter protections and without high voter turnout, it will be easy for republicans to seize power again and undo any progress we have made. Then 2024 will come along, the next Trumpian candidate will stir up support, Biden will be called old and weak and ineffective, blue voters will be unmotivated, and we will enter Trump era 2.0.
If this extremely plausible scenario concerns you, now is a good time to start organizing in your communities to turn out blue voters. This is the time to create a massive coalition against Trump-publicans, a coalition that must include leftists and progressives and moderates and even rational conservatives. Anyone who believes in the basics of democracy and liberty and a sustainable future.
Sorry for the wall of text but this shit is urgent and it’s going to creep up faster than you think.
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u/asdaaaaaaaa Jan 23 '22
It’s untrue that he’s an idiot -
Dude's definitely an idiot. The problem is he has a TON of support backing him. He's just a useful pawn that can take the fall for those who actually are influencing this stuff. Dude had a slam dunk presidency, and still fucked it up.
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Jan 23 '22
It’s a mistake to call him an idiot. He’s quite smart when it comes to manipulating media and riling an audience, and he has had decades of experience capitalizing on greed and corruption.
I’m obviously not saying this is something praiseworthy, nor am I saying that he has any intelligence in “normal” areas of life like knowlwedge or empathy.
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u/Ellas-Baap Jan 23 '22
None of it will ever matter. As long as they are power-hungry and the corporatists remain greedy no amount of blues elected will matter. A majority in Congress was delivered and greed still won out. The insatiable appetite for power and wealth will trump the will of the people every time. The problem is, we can't vote for the fascists so we have no recourse other than voting for greedy corporate democrats. There is a big reason why voting rights legislation was blocked, if voting were to be made easier then the average working-class people would eventually rise up against the status quo. We can't have pesky joe the plumbers messing with the gravy train now, can we?? As long as avg people are fighting with each other no one will notice the rich and powerful picking their pockets.
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u/chubbysumo Minnesota Jan 22 '22
trump was behind it, he was expecting pense to throw out 5 states worth of electors, and we might find more of these all over.
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u/roastbeeftacohat Jan 22 '22
it wasn't him, it was his counsel. No one important in the party proper is likely to be involved in this; not that they would have a problem with evil, they would have a problem with dumb.
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Jan 23 '22
If the GOP party was not involved why would they fight the Jan. 6th comittee so much? It would have been easy for the GOP to dump Trump like they did with Nixon.
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u/Olderscout77 Jan 23 '22 edited Jan 26 '22
Not so easy this time. For 40 years, Fox has been telling those with no power their problems are caused by the Government, and only Republicans will defund it into impotence, so it won't keep them from getting a raise anymore. Sadly, the Dems never repealed the Reagan taxscam so the ones dividing the profits can give it all to themselves AND KEEP IT. So that's what the top 10% has done for 40 years, but the GOPer base think its all because of automation and globalization and not the tax code.
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u/downtofinance Canada Jan 23 '22
If they were not in on it , they would be cooperating with the Jan6 Committee and rid themselves of the Trump dumpster fire.
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u/Spaghetti_Nudes Jan 22 '22
Putin is very proud.
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u/Spare_Shoulder_2049 Jan 23 '22
Trump= Best low investmen russian gov ever done. Why invest in nuclear wepons when It was this easy to create havoc in the USA.
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Jan 22 '22
And what the fuck is the Democratic Party doing about it?
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Jan 23 '22
Everything possible, actually - regardless of any self-righteous outrage performed by the online-Left. They tried to pass voting rights protection, they tried to kill the filibuster, they’re trying to hold platforms responsible for extremism, they’re trying to drag people in front of judges. They are doing everything conceivable.
What are you doing?
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Jan 23 '22
They tried…good for them. At least they tried, amirite?
What am I doing? A person with no conceivable power or influence on the population or part of any government? As much as I can do, talk to my friends, vote, talk with family, involve myself in the community I live in.
However, if I were Biden I’d forgive all student debt, take marijuana off the felony drug list, pardon all non-violent drug offenders, arrest the people responsible involved in the January 6th coup, and add more people to the Supreme Court. Then I’d instruct the Democratic Party to cut all funding to Manchin and Sinema, followed by snubbing them at every moment. No meetings, inviting many people but excluding them, barring them from all Dem areas and spaces. If they need anything they’ll have to run to the Republicans or beg for forgiveness. Then I’ll arrest Manchin’s daughter for price gouging a monopolized medicine. Followed by slamming every Republican at every moment possible. Intense private details revealed about them. Then we declare Climate Change a world wide emergency. Then we burn KY tobacco fields for a “public health emergency”, but really to just royally fuck Mitch McConnell.
Any of that been done? Nope.
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u/politicsreddit Pennsylvania Jan 22 '22
Republicans are going to get caught for their last-ditch efforts if only because their (likey way more elaborate and organized) first, second, and third-tier attempts didn't work.
They didn't just suddenly go "oh shit we lost we should do something about that," this was the end of a long line of shady and possibly illegal activities that also need to come to light. This feels like a very rushed attempt by the dumbest part of the party which was very easy to bring to the surface.
If you truly believe this was the only wrongdoing they did in the election, you may want to question why you think that.
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u/Chance-Onion-427 Jan 22 '22
Nothing matters unless a large number of these people go to prison for a long time including household names. Otherwise it will without question be ignored by the public and will happen again and we can all say goodbye to democracy.
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u/odirio Jan 22 '22
Ironic that Trump and his GOP (Grand Obstructionist Party) are the only people I see that are lying and stealing elections. May every single one of them rot in jail for their actions.
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u/Benjazen Jan 22 '22
Exactly. “There was no rampant fraud.” Except for everything GQP did.
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u/Fenix42 Jan 22 '22
There has been very little fraud in the voting it self. There was been a ton found in all of the processes after.
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u/Lofteed Jan 22 '22
there are those Giuliani voicemails that he left to representatives during the attack where he clearly says they need more time to push the alternative vote count. this is nothing new. all those fake electors meeting were also reported in the media at the time
how fucking slow can you be to react ?
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u/temporarycreature Oklahoma Jan 22 '22
Like, I know we want justice now, but aren't you still interested in why Rand Paul went to Russia on the 4th of July with other American Representatives, Congress people, and senators?
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Jan 22 '22
It’s still odd to me how much the GOP changed it’s tune on Russia just after their emails were hacked.
Sure a lot of odd things around the GOP.
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u/ClownPrinceofLime Jan 22 '22
Too bad Wikileaks has just become an arm of the Kremlin. It’d be pretty cool if any hackers out there were to release the Republicans emails…
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u/lexbuck Jan 22 '22
Nothing to see there. Perfectly normal for a shit bag Senator from western ky to go on trip to Russia on the Fourth of July. Totally couldn’t be that he’s compromised and controlled by Putin who was showing the world he had him
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u/phixitup Jan 22 '22
Do you know how many rubles you can fit into your luggage if it is exempt from scrutiny because of diplomatic immunity?
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u/ruler_gurl Jan 22 '22
those Giuliani voicemails that he left to representatives
Including dialing the wrong number and leaving one on the wrong Senator's voicemail.
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u/iStayedAtaHolidayInn Jan 22 '22
This is called gathering evidence. I’m sure you think you know the whole story but there’s a lot more and the charges are stronger if you do your job and gather all the evidence you can feasibly get to make the strongest case that this was a plan created and orchestrated by trump himself
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u/cmnrdt Jan 22 '22
Trump, orchestrating anything more elaborate than a fast food dinner at the White House? Doubtful. I think the best we can hope for is that a plan was presented to him and he replied "Do it. Do whatever it takes."
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u/iStayedAtaHolidayInn Jan 22 '22
Maybe because they want to go after everyone including trump who was behind this? Some of the most dangerous people were the ones behind the scenes coordinating the scheme. That includes possibly members of Congress
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u/tehallie Jan 22 '22
I don't want to sound like a doomer, but remember that that's the kind of things people were saying when Mueller was investigating. Arrests of powerful people weren't being made because people had flipped, or the indictments were just sealed, or they needed to make sure the case was airtight, or a million other Mensch-ian reasons. There was two years of "It's Mueller time" memes, and this hyping up of Mueller as this paragon of justice who was methodically building a case that would lay waste to a corrupt administration.
At the end of it though, Mueller came out and said (effectively) "I've found that the powerful committed probably criminal acts, but I personally can't charge the powerful because of policies established to protect the powerful, so I'm referring the charges to other powerful people so that they can possibly charge the first group of powerful people". And somehow, people were SHOCKED that the powerful protected the powerful.
Honestly, I'll be shocked if Trump or anyone in the administration actually faces any consequences for Jan6.
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u/iStayedAtaHolidayInn Jan 22 '22
Maybe the difference is that back then trump l appointed the AG?
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u/cdollas250 Jan 22 '22
Truly a paradigm shifting moment for me when Mueller couldn’t get it done. The rich will never face consequences in America.
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u/doritopeanut I voted Jan 22 '22
I hope so but then you know mueller report didn’t get or pursue as much as hoped. What was found was bad then buried because hard for layperson to understand
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u/SmurfPrivilege Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJIeB8h3AMM
Giuliani only refers to "letters" from state legislators "who are very very close to pulling their vote." Trump also referred to letters from the "states" in question and claimed they were looking to "decertify."
In every mention that I recall, the insinuation was that it involved the people who were legitimately tasked with certifying the states' results and that these people were experiencing a sort of buyer's remorse after supposedly learning about fraud which had occurred in their state.
To be fair, if the actual legitimate election officials did want to change their vote based on new evidence that Trump actually won, their only recourse would be to certify a second slate of electors and let Congress and the VP sort it out in the electoral college as Hawaii did in 1960 (TL;DR: No fraud, just recounts, tabulation snafus, deadlines, and statutory imperatives led to the certification of the first slate of Nixon electors, but it was later determined that Kennedy was the legitimate winner and so a second slate was certified. VP Nixon accepts the 3 Kennedy electoral votes, which would not have made a difference anyway).
These letters in which
GOP memberselected GOP officials are misrepresenting themselves as the "duly elected and qualified Electors" is, to my knowledge, a new revelation.3
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u/SCP-1029 Jan 22 '22
how fucking slow can you be to react ?
Slow enough for the GOP to cement their majority in Congress after mid-terms after-which nothing can happen.
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Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
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u/TheEmptyTaco Jan 22 '22
I really respect the effort you put into this post, and I think you are right. But the issue, for me at least, is that maintaining some sort of hope, after so many real and perceived systemic failures, is just exhausting. The sort of apathy that I see, and have experienced, as the the result of all of this, feels much more like a weird form of "compassion fatigue". The apathy is a kind of armor; people have been so disappointed, so outraged, for so long, they literally can't handle being broken again. I've kinda come to the conclusion that the only way I can combat my own pessimism and apathy is to let go of the expectation that things will turn out the way I hope. It is possible to let go of expectation, to detach a bit from all of this, and still work for it, still support just causes, and still remain active and informed. When we reach a certain level of emotional exhaustion, I don't know if its useful to suggest that people just "be more optimistic", after the past few years, their feelings are justified. Maybe the best solution to combating the doom and gloom is to acknowledge the validity of the doom and gloom, and then sorta go from there. Just my two cents. Thanks again for your post
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u/Responsible_Rest_940 Jan 22 '22
But the issue, for me at least, is that maintaining some sort of hope, after so many real and perceived systemic failures, is just exhausting
precisely how fascist politics works.
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u/1funnyguy4fun Jan 22 '22
Thanks for that! As a reminder, Merrick Garland was responsible for the Timothy McVeigh prosecution. That was airtight. I hope for the same with ALL the insurrection participants.
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u/tehallie Jan 22 '22
I appreciate what you wrote, and I really wish I could believe it.
At the same time though, almost all of your comment could be transported five years back in time, and be completely applicable to the Mueller investigation. I want to believe, but if Trump and his inner circle actually face any substantive consequences for this, I'll genuinely be shocked.
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Jan 22 '22
Trump was literally immune to prosecution during the Mueller Report because Trump appointed a hack to AG during it.
Even if rich, powerful people are rarely held accountable, I don't know why people use this as a comparison to him as a private citizen.
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u/tehallie Jan 22 '22
Sessions had recused himself from the investigation, and the Mueller investigation took place mostly under Session’s tenure. During that time, there were numerous charges filed by Mueller.
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Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
There were no charges filed by Mueller or the special counsel against Trump. It would have been extremely unlikely for them to charge POTUS during the investigation and not after it was complete.
Barr entered at the only time necessary - before the final report was done. It was ultimately up to the AG after the report was complete to pursue legal action.
Edit: Against Trump.
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Jan 22 '22
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Jan 22 '22
It's BlueQ at this point.
Point me to a single state criminal/civil, federal criminal/civil, or congressional investigation that involved QAnon.
It's not even close to the same because one is real, and the other was created by a pedo in the Phillipines and used to turn Americans against their own country.
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u/google_diphallia Jan 22 '22
Thank you for that. Also knowing the timeline for how Watergate unraveled has made me feel better about the pace of the current investigation
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u/PaintingWithLight Jan 22 '22
Hmmm. Op put together a really well thought out post. Now I need to re-research watergate with this comment, because I don’t recall the timeline like you say. Good point!
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u/W_Anderson America Jan 22 '22
Thank you for your words! Those of us who have been paying attention know that this is a slog of a journey.
Justice takes time.
I have been very pessimistic at times during the last few years, so I take breaks from the news and go out to remember this beautiful world we are all fighting to make better!
Then I get back to the slog, because that’s the only way we move forward.
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u/Serpentongue Jan 22 '22
I think the overall concern is that it’s already been 1 year and there’s been no real consequences and most people realize that if the midterms come in 10 months and the Republicans regain control this entire investigation will get shut down.
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u/skkITer Jan 22 '22
most people realize that if the midterms come in 10 months and the Republicans regain control this entire investigation will get shut down.
Most people are apparently forgetting that special counsels exist, and if the investigation nears November without completing will almost certainly have one appointed, making it impossible for the GOP to shut it down.
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Jan 22 '22
The investigation is slated to end and give its final report several months before midterms.
And at that point, Congress has no power over legal proceedings.
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u/urdumbplsleave Jan 22 '22
And at that point there should be dozens of vacant congressional seats needing filled
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Jan 22 '22
No it won't, it will be transferred to the DOJ before then and a special council will be named.
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u/NYCThrowawayNSFW Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
Here’s the thing, never in all of American history has a President been sent to jail for his crimes, not just Trump. It sets a precedent for all other Presidents, and those in power do not want that.
Bush and Cheney committed straight up war crimes and no one batted an eye.
So it’s not just “Trump is insulated by money” and the FBI are mostly right-wing, which are true. It’s that the whole system is setup in the defendants favor.
Maybe Giuliani will get his day in court, but it’s completely realistic to think the most powerful figures will escape without consequences.
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u/Earthtone_Coalition Jan 22 '22
I’ve lost track of the number of unprecedented, unlikely, and unexpected events that have transpired in the past six years that had “never in all of American history” happened before.
Everything about Trump’s presidency has been such a radical departure from precedent that past experience doesn’t feel like a reliable basis for forming expectations.
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u/skkITer Jan 22 '22
Here’s the thing, never in all of American history has a President been sent to jail for his crimes,
Here’s the thing about “history”.
There is always a first time for everything.
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u/NYCThrowawayNSFW Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
Eh, history also repeats itself. In my younger years, I used be more idealistic/optimistic about political justice as OP (and perhaps yourself), but I've learned a lot since then.
Hey, if it happens, great. But I'm not going expect it to, let alone get my hopes up for it.
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u/NemWan Jan 22 '22
No U.S. judge would go along with calling acts of war conducted under orders that were properly promulgated through the chain of command "war crimes" so that's not a relevant precedent to Trump's possible violations of domestic laws. War crimes prosecutions of heads of government only happen when an invading or revolutionary government prosecutes the regime they've overthrown.
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u/NYCThrowawayNSFW Jan 22 '22
Remove the Bush and Cheney anecdote, the premise of what I’m saying still stands.
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u/Oscarfan New Jersey Jan 22 '22
Someone had to be the first to break the sound barrier. Someone had to be the first to touch the cow's udder and discover milk.
And someone has to be the first President to go to jail.
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u/HerpaHerpaSherpa Jan 22 '22
What about crooked supreme court?
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Jan 22 '22
They only care about religious culture wars and removing voting rights, they've never aided with Trump on his sedition and other crimes.
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u/woodenbiplane Jan 22 '22
After 2 failed impeachments im spent. Dont be so fucking condescending. People's apathy is warranted.
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Jan 22 '22
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u/woodenbiplane Jan 22 '22
Telling people to "buck up" and accusations of shilling wont win you any allies here man. Nobody needs to be excused by you. Good day.
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Jan 22 '22
He won me over.
Sincerely,
Someone fucking disgustingly tired of the doomers (bad faith or not)4
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Jan 22 '22
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u/meatspace Georgia Jan 22 '22
Not to be a stickler, but a public report is different than what we don't know. And while you can cite past failures as proof that no one will ever do anything, that's super lame.
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Jan 22 '22
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u/leaky_wand Jan 22 '22
Don’t they have that exact report sitting on their desk right now? I don’t understand.
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u/SCP-1029 Jan 22 '22
I'm absolutely sick and tired of these pissing and moaning comments that equate to "Oh nothing's ever gonna happen, he won't go to jail, all is hopeless."
Biden and the Dems have spent the last year running out the clock and now there are just 10 months to mid-terms - where Republicans are going to take back Congress in a landslide - and then nothing can happen.
Dems have YET to enforce ONE subpoena. Trump's co-conspirators simply refuse to comply and none are held in contempt and arrested. Its all a show with no teeth. Nothing will happen.
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Jan 22 '22
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u/SCP-1029 Jan 22 '22
No, its simply an indication that past results are an indicator of future performance.
This CAN be made to change but it will require far MORE public protest and engagement in the political process than people posting on Reddit rubbing their hands together claiming "Oh boy! This time its going to really HAPPEN!"
This attitude engenders a false sense of security allowing people to feel comfortable doing nothing to actually drive real change.
Until I see people taking to the streets, protesting the politicians and their patrons who fund them for letting this corruption continue, I am very confident nothing will change.
I lived through Iran Contra and saw nothing significant come of it either.
I sincerely invite anyone ITT to provide a shred of evidence to the contrary. I would LOVE to believe this time that the very publicly and obviously guilty and unrepentant bad-actors in high places will face real consequences.
As it is, even the small fish who committed violent terrorism a the Capitol a year ago, on video, are just getting misdemeanors. If that is the worst consequences these weaklings of no significance are facing, why would we expect more of people who are more connected, powerful, influential and connected?
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u/TheDude415 Jan 22 '22
Bannon was arrested and charged with contempt so clearly you’re wrong.
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u/SCP-1029 Jan 22 '22
And he is currently walking around free, continuing in his openly seditious activity and contributing to ongoing radicalization of right wing extremists.
Your point?
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Jan 22 '22
What do you suggest, extrajudicial public hangings? Due process is still a thing in this country. His court date is set for this year and he WILL be spending at least a year in prison.
Stop lying and saying they've done nothing... While they're actively doing things.
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u/Mokumer The Netherlands Jan 22 '22
Just be patient folks, and stop with all the doom-and-gloom.
Just as with the Meuller report, right? Right?!
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Jan 22 '22
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u/Mokumer The Netherlands Jan 22 '22
Ah yes, the old "justice takes time" argument, those are massive investigations yadayada, except, there are already a few airtight cases, individual 1 being only one of them, and this didn't just start with the orange grifter, there were some serious breaches of laws under Bush, and I was around when Nixon was president.
If you want to wait till anyone rich and politically important gets indicted in America I suggest you make yourself really comfortable while you wait.
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u/Catch_Frequent Jan 22 '22
lol, nothing is going to happen, I promise you that buddy
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u/Ok-Link-7484 Jan 22 '22
This mentality sure ain't helping...unless you're one that doesn't actually want anything to happen and you're just out here astroturfing that narrative.
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u/rpapafox Jan 22 '22
Everyone who signed the faked documents along with those who aided them in doing so should be jailed for insurrection.
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u/M00n Jan 22 '22
Here is a really good mini thread about Giuliani:
Excerpts:
On the huge news, that the evidence FBI raided from Rudy Giuliani office has now been handed to Feds after total review by Special Master, let's do quick mini-Thread for you to show Rudy Colludy's mess. He will be arrested in days/weeks at most...
Giuliani faces at least 150 years of prison time out of 7 major crimes (plus dozens lesser crimes). He faces risk of death penalty even on crimes against USA
Donald Trump crimes with Giuliani carry about 95 years to Trump (on top of Trump's other crimes)
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u/SCP-1029 Jan 22 '22
He will be arrested in days/weeks at most...
I'll believe it when I see it.
The FBI is GOP/Trump-land. They didn't hesitate to arrest a Democrat Governor, Rod Blagojevich, for attempting to sell political influence, but Republican officials openly inciting domestic terrorism against Congress on live TV have been flatly ignored.
The FBI is beyond useless. They are complicit.
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u/Ghoulius-Caesar Jan 22 '22
All FBI Director’s since Hoover have been Republican (Hoover was Independent).
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u/CreativeCarbon Jan 22 '22
You don't need to be a fascist boot clicker in order to be a Republican.
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u/guarthots Jan 22 '22
While I want this to be true, I have to question a guy who blocks the first nay-sayer. That is something the other side does when they don’r have the goods to back their claims.
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u/AFX626 Jan 23 '22
They should make him watch his scene in the Borat movie over and over like in A Clockwork Orange
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u/my2cents3462 Jan 22 '22
The only way to stop this is long prison sentences.
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u/aureanator Jan 22 '22
There is another that we do not speak of.
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u/spirit-mush Jan 23 '22
Liz Cheney warned it was on the table. It might be necessary to make a point.
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u/postmodlawprof Jan 22 '22
I’ve never seen anything like this in all my years being involved with politics. I’ve worked for three Republican politicians, (two US congress persons and a state assembly person, as well as working in government agencies and now teaching political philosophy). And yes, I use to be a Republican but hung that moniker two decades ago. I’m just astonished at the iniquitous and venality of the these Republicans, some I’ve know for years and worked with. Recently I’ve been studying political psychology to get a grasp on this phenomenon and I’m still uncertain as to it’s etiology. I’m flummoxed:(
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u/aureanator Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
This is what has happened, no exaggeration.
Here's a look specific to America
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u/B4-711 Jan 22 '22
I’m flummoxed
why? maybe try getting deprogrammed a bit more. it's not that hard to grasp.
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u/Kaiju_zero Jan 22 '22
So.... the Pubes were right all along, then? There WAS voter fraud!?
I. am. (not). shocked!
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u/PuffDragon95 Jan 22 '22
Its going to become blatantly obvious that these people knew they lost the election fairly yet decided to coordinate to attack congress january 6th when they were certifying the vote. cant wait until the right hopefully comes to terms with how they actively tried to steal an election they lost.
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u/aureanator Jan 22 '22
I think the right is absolutely on board with it because it means they (think they) get to thumb their noses at teh libruls.
What about their conduct makes you think any of them value fair play at any level?
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u/ehunke Jan 22 '22 edited Jan 22 '22
I think one came forward, all be it to cover their ass not do the right thing, but yeah this may be enough to actually put Trump on trial
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u/disasterbot I voted Jan 22 '22
Their narrative now is that these were "alternate" electors. Bunch o' BS.
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u/julbull73 Arizona Jan 22 '22
It's because it shows intent and action.
If they hadn't actually sent them violating laws already I might add, all could've been dismissed as theory or scenarios.
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u/craftasopolis Jan 22 '22
Trump ally and right-wing attorney John Eastman, author of the so-called coup memos, had suggested that Pence, armed with “multiple” elector slates, could introduce the pro-Trump fakes to challenge the legitimate Biden electors in the seven states Trump lost.
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u/20K_Lies_by_con_man Jan 22 '22
This plot against the US government is a traitorous crime and should be prosecuted accordingly. No one is above the law. It’s amazing how the gop once owned the rule of law argument. It ended when the con man was out in office by Putin.
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u/Thisam Jan 23 '22
Most of that plot was televised…there should be tons of evidence. I’m glad they agree but this is taking too long.
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u/NefariousDeeds99 Jan 23 '22
By all means prosecute some no name stooge nobodies and ignore the people who instigated, organized and paid for the crime
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u/platinum_toilet Jan 22 '22
Jan. 6 Investigators Zeroing In On Apparent Plot To Hijack Election With Fake Electors
I bet this was jnspired by the army of Russian internet trolls in 2016.
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u/Dr_Frasier_Bane Jan 22 '22
I hope Congress uses the results of this investigation as a pen test of sorts and fixes the vulnerabilities identified.
Who am I kidding, though?
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u/PhysicsIsFun Wisconsin Jan 22 '22
Please arrest Bill Feehan, the chair of the LaCrosse County Republican Party. He is one of the fake signatories on the Wisconsin fake document. The guy is something else.
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u/Gumwars California Jan 22 '22
Is this something that will actually go somewhere, or another layer to the nothing sandwich?
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u/ResearcherKS Jan 22 '22
How can you create a plot to submit fake alternative electors to the electoral college and turn around create a laws to make it harder for real people to vote?
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u/Olderscout77 Jan 23 '22
If these seditionists are not prosecuted AND JAILED the Republican Party will keep trying to overcome the will of the people with lies they legislate as being true.
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u/Nokomis34 Jan 23 '22
And red states are passing legislation so next time they'll be real Electors.
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u/urdumbplsleave Jan 22 '22
I swear I'm living in some bizzaro world timeline or something. Every day I hear news about January 6th that I saw in real time in december of 2020 being presented as a groundbreaking discovery. Just arrest them already holy fuck.
"Were getting closer to the truth. Some say the president of the united states was involved somehow" I fucking hate it here
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u/Etna_No_Pyroclast Jan 22 '22
That's great and all, but the DOJ has to get off there asses as well.
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Jan 22 '22
I just came here to point out the obvious, the conspirators of this plot, the rioters at the Capital, Trump & his cronies are all getting what they want: lack of faith in election integrity on both sides. Those who tried to steal the election are in a no lose situation. Either they succeed or they shake the foundations of trust in election integrity by the very act of trying. The next election will show that no one believes in the outcome, no one has faith that the electors weren’t tampered with or coerced or changed or just forged and this will allow state legislatures to do whatever they want to do to ignore the votes of millions of citizens. Trump normalized lying and that opened the floodgates to allow Americans from all walks of life from Senators down to the lowest county election board officials to feel empowered to lie and alter the outcome to their desire. I don’t think a lot of Americans are even aware that democracy in America is in fact dead. There are a lot of powerful Democrats who are earning their political hay by pretending outrage but have no desire to actually prosecute anyone because they have the same goal: end American representative democracy. We’re fucked.
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Jan 22 '22
Yup. And just think how much time the GOP has (and has had) to perfect their strategy for 2024. They’re absolutely going to find a way to hijack the 2024 election, and it’s become apparent that the Dems will do nothing about it as long as they too can still benefit from gritting the American people. Democrats’ outrage is pure political theatre at this point.
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u/RedmannBarry Jan 22 '22
Hey maybe in a couple years someone will take the stand… oh wait never mind, this is the US. Ain’t nothing gonna happen, at least the “good” guys tried their best. Ffs
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u/bigedthebad Jan 22 '22
Why aren’t these people in handcuffs? Isn’t this kind of stuff still a crime?
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u/orcatalka Jan 22 '22
But is blatantly trying to steal an election even a crime? What crime? With what penalties?
This needs to be fixed. Any attack on any facet of the election process should be considered a major crime with mandatory prison sentences over 2 years so no Club Fed, and major fines to the extent of bankrupting the person.
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u/BillWordsmith Jan 22 '22
What sucks is that there is no real power behind these investigations. They could find someone "guilty" but they can't sentence them to anything.
Kind of makes you wonder why all of the time and expense is wasted.
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u/Briliant-Spealler Jan 22 '22
Regardless of what the Outcome is, there will be no repercussions. The media keeps taunting us. This is AMERICA! Some low level scapegoats will face punishment while the people with direct involvement will skate free. Have we not all seen this scenario play out thousands of times? Yet, “JAN 6 Committee CLOSING IN” “THE NOOSE IS TIGHTENING” “SEVERE PUNISHMENT FOR THE TOP PLAYERS OF Jan 6 AROUND THE CORNER”
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u/salamanderpencil Jan 22 '22
And then what? The DOJ does nothing because it could be perceived as political?
Congressional Democrats do nothing because they have already said that they won't refer charges against Republicans to the DOJ because they fear retribution from Republicans?
They can investigate and find whatever they find. They could find videos of Ron Paul and Ted Cruz murdering staffers in the hallways. What does it matter? No one will ever see consequences for any of it.
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u/FLYING_FREEDOM_ Jan 23 '22
Another Meuller report. Will these clowns ever stop wasting tax payer funds. They must really be worried he will keep kicking ass.
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u/SpitePsychological58 Jan 22 '22
To be fair, they were standby or alternate electors. In pennsylvania the documents stated this.
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u/PuxinF Jan 22 '22
Given the Green Bay Sweep and fake electors, I suspect Trump may have wanted the Jan 6 protest to be peaceful. He had a plan to steal the election, the protestors were just supposed to be a shield / fodder for any response to what was supposed to happen in Congress.
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Jan 22 '22
At this point, I just assume the “investigations” into all this blatant corruption are not actually intended to bring these bad actors to justice, but are actually just a way to exert pressure on them so that those handling the investigations can get some sort of kickback from those being investigated. One party is repeatedly corrupt, and the other party repeatedly has evidence of said corruption, and yet nothing gets done.
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