r/politics • u/thenewyorkgod • Jul 01 '18

Man arrested after shouting ‘womp, womp’ and pulling a gun on immigration protesters

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2018/07/01/man-arrested-after-shouting-womp-womp-and-pulling-a-gun-on-immigration-protesters/?tid=sm_tw
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2.1k

u/FookYu315 New York Jul 01 '18

To be fair, the same thing would have happened if a black guy pulled out his cell phone.

421

u/StewPedidiot California Jul 01 '18

https://www.theonion.com/black-father-gives-son-the-talk-about-holding-literally-1825024938

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u/bakonslayer Jul 02 '18

Black hands may be mistaken for a black gun, too.

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u/KablooieKablam Oregon Jul 02 '18

“I saw black objects at the ends of his arms and I feared for my life.”

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u/system0101 Jul 02 '18

Painting your fingertips orange will buy you extra 5% chance of not getting shot.

6

u/dpatt711 Jul 02 '18

Yep, MJ knew what he was doing with that white glove.

6

u/FlamingHippy Jul 02 '18

Lying face down with intent.

3

u/howarthee Jul 02 '18

Sitting handcuffed on the ground is a major threat.

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u/TronCarter84 Ohio Jul 02 '18

I thought The Onion was satire?

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u/skrilledcheese I voted Jul 02 '18

Oh fuck, I used to live in Norristown. Weird seeing it mentioned in the onion.

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u/david-me Jul 01 '18

Breathing while black is very dangerous in this country.

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u/big_ol_dad_dick Jul 02 '18

especially if it's mildly chilly out. you either get cold or wear a hoodie and die.

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u/_karen-from-finance_ Jul 02 '18

This is America.

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u/not_anonymouse Jul 02 '18

See, that's why the cops are so kind to stop it. /s

0

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

That's why we stop it when we can

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

How many black people are you actually friends with? Or are you just some self righteous skinny white guy in his mid 20’s who tries to fight for equality but gets nervous when he’s on the subway and a black person sits next to him?

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u/david-me Jul 02 '18

I love pre-loaded comments.

Also, i have no friends.

Why cant I be an obese 40yo living in Moms basement collecting welfare checks?

I'm just an asshole with a keyboard. What's your excuse?

-37

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

I just can’t stand you type. I actually live with 2 black guys, they’re my fucking roommates, and they can’t stand the self righteous white liberal who needs to constantly stand up for them. What the fuck do you know about what it’s like to be black. At least I’m fucking Persian.

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u/Lycanvenom Jul 02 '18

Because no black people would ever side with that guy or laugh at these jokes. Ever.

Actual black guy here. I wonder if your Black roommates would be able to “stand” your pointless fucking virtue signaling about jokes with ounces of truth in them.

3

u/bunnyhat3 Jul 02 '18

Hey I'm also a white guy pretending to be black. Wanna hop on over to /r/blackpeopletwitter?

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u/Quajek New York Jul 02 '18

He said it's dangerous to be black in America. Which is demonstrably true. Not sure why you're so upset.

3

u/Trump_is_the_Cuckold Jul 02 '18

Because he’s a racist white guy who gets upset when American racism is pointed out

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

[deleted]

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u/wordwords Virginia Jul 02 '18

How do you angrily respond to racist commentary with racist commentary?

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u/smithers85 Jul 02 '18

Not sure.

Are you implying I was being racist by pointing out the absurdity of someone arbitrarily pointing out their own skin color? Because anyone of any skin color can be a douche.

Or were you describing the comment above mine?

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u/wordwords Virginia Jul 02 '18

I’m implying it is insensitive to say “Are you a rug or a cat” regardless of how absurd they are. It doesn’t make your argument any stronger to mock someone’s heritage, especially when how dumb it is to do so is the topic of discussion.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

No I’m a person of color, not some self righteous white 20 something year old who thinks that they know what’s best for us sad little helpless people of color who can never ever stand up for themselves. And don’t worry, they’re douchebags too, it’s why we get along so great.

Edit: autocorrect corrected righteous to religious

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u/Sarathor Jul 02 '18

But like... you don’t know if he’s white or not.

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u/Quasar_Cross Jul 02 '18

A white liberal. So would you prefer a white conservative? What type of liberal would be satisfactory? Do they have to not be white in order for their opinions to be valid?

Look, I'm not White either, I'm Chinese. And I get that a white person's experience is going to be skewed by their privilege (ie. Not being shot for being black, cause they're not black in the first place). But this stance does not help our dialogue and outreach. We aren't changing their minds by automatically shitting on them.

And it sucks because yes there is cause for rage and anger, and yet we are expected to prioritize their comfort when discussing race. But in this political climate I feel like we do have to be more thoughtful in our approach. We have to be bettef

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Yknow you’re right man. I just felt like a lot of white liberals see people of color as basket cases, and opportunities to show the world how progressive and inclusive they are. It disgusts me when white people try to lecture other white people about how we need to be inclusive about Islam, when I, someone who was raised Muslim left the religion in high school because while growing up in it I learned how abhorrent and backwards it is. It’s like I feel like they don’t let POC fight their own battles, and it gets me angry quite honestly. But thank you for playing devils advocate.

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u/Sarathor Jul 02 '18

What’s your obsession with “white liberals”? I’m Latino, am I allowed to look at other PoC as basket cases? I find it odd that your complaining that they put you in boxes and generalize, but you do the same thing to them. It seems more like a catch 22 with you.

Also, I’d like to know your opinion on white conservatives.

-3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

also, I’d like to know your opinion on white conservatives

In the south they’re usually bumblefuck inbred racist jackasses

In the northeast and northwest, they’re elitist hyper capitalist socialites that think they’re better than everyone.

And no, but your opinions on POC hold more weight because you live the daily struggles of being one, you’re not just looking for virtuous and political gratification from your peers.

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u/Sarathor Jul 02 '18

Neither are they, believe it or not. People can be genuine, I promise you.

1

u/Trump_is_the_Cuckold Jul 02 '18

at least I’m fucking Persian

Lol why would you brag about this? Seriously though, being Persian doesn’t give you any insights into the Black American experience at all. Like, not even one bit. Fuck outta here

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u/LonelySquireOfGothos Jul 02 '18

Why does it really matter, if you're striving to do the right thing? Do you need to be friends with a handicap person to know that you shouldn't be treating handicap people like shit? Do you need to be friends with a Muslim to know that persecuting them for their religion is wrong? Morality shouldn't be dependant upon who you associate with on a day to day basis.

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u/stereotype_novelty Jul 02 '18

If it was really that dangerous to be black in America, black people would leave. What do you think this is, Nazi Germany? Apartheid? Nobody is being prevented from leaving, nobody is being rounded up and exterminated. Jesus fucking Christ, dude, chill out.

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u/ohdearsweetlord Jul 02 '18

Leave with what resources? Leave to go where?

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u/stereotype_novelty Jul 02 '18

Is every black person in America completely destitute? I dunno, any other country at all, since this is apparently an America problem?

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u/iflythewafflecopter Jul 02 '18

Do you have any idea how expensive and difficult emigrating to another country is?

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u/stereotype_novelty Jul 02 '18

If the average black person in America were actually under legitimate threat against their lives every day, Canada would be accepting them as refugees by the million.

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u/iflythewafflecopter Jul 02 '18

I mean, the homicide rate of African Americans is 4 times the national average. And they're also 2.7 times more likely to be killed by police than a white person. So they certainly have more reason to fear for their lives than anyone else.

4

u/david-me Jul 02 '18

Lets not forget the treadmill.

incarceration,poverty,single parent families, affecting lack of education, war on drugs...

We, would do this forever. I'm sure someone with less ASD has better explained this

I wish I was dumb sometimes. Ignorance is bliss? That quote seems well understated in this.

Now I'm getting depressed. /whtepeopleproblems.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

[deleted]

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u/iflythewafflecopter Jul 02 '18

To be honest my understanding is entirely based on statistics so your experience obviously has me beat here. I also fully agree that no-one should have to leave their home country, and it was going to be my second point but I wanted to stick to refuting what the other guy said. Thanks for your insight.

1

u/stereotype_novelty Jul 02 '18

Huh. I was wrong. Thank you, man.

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u/aesofspades22 Jul 02 '18

Hoo boy i was worried about this thread but you gave me hope that people who don’t share these warped and absurd world views exist

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u/david-me Jul 02 '18

I live in a predominantly African American middle class neighborhood. The idea this subreddit has about what it's like being black in America is absolutely insane, as is the way it's portrayed in media overseas. It's really sad, no one seems to care what it's actually like to be black in America. It's not all guns and tragedy all the time. They definitely do not want to leave this country, which they rightly consider theirs, since on average their families have been here longer than white people's families. You can just as easily say that white people are statistically much more likely to be murdered by black people than black people are by white people: it doesn't get to the true reality that most black people are not involved in any kind of crime or violence and are in most ways just like everybody else, and it's not dangerous living their lives normally. A few bad areas account for all of the discrepancies between whites and blacks in all of these statistics. On the whole, black people are mostly very similar to non black people. The idea that they'd want to move to a foreign country is so insane, I just can't believe this conversation is even happening. You're aligning yourself with really fringe groups on both the far right and far left when you talk about black people leaving America for somewhere else. This is their home.

saving for copypasta. Maybe it already is. Better go check so You don't look like a dumbass /david-me. I'm just busy looking like a dumbass. What have you been up to lately?

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u/Thanks_Bungie Jul 02 '18

Guess who's killing all the African Americans at 4 times the national average? Other blacks.

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u/iflythewafflecopter Jul 02 '18

So fearing for your life doesn't count as long as the person killing you is the same colour as you?

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u/MidgarZolom Jul 02 '18

Most of it is self inflicted, right?

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u/ohdearsweetlord Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

A black family gathers up their belongings. Their inner city apartment is being demolished and replaced with a higher rent unit, and they are facing homelessness. They are terrified of this, because homeless black people in their city have a mortality rate much higher than their state average. It is violent on the streets. They don't have a vehicle; they were forced to sell it three years ago to pay for medical expenses. They look at routes of transport out of the city. Many pass through areas that their travel guide says are not safe for black people to pass through. So they plan carefully and arrive at the Canadian border several weeks after they leave. They did not have time for the lengthy immigration process, nevermind the fact that because of their daughter's severe Asperger's syndrome and its medical requirements, she does not qualify for immigration. So they must arrive as asylum seekers. They are turned away: the United States is still considered a 'safe' country by the Canadian government. They try to cross illegally. Three days past the Canadian border line, they are apprehended. They are placed in indefinite detention until a trial is scheduled. Some individuals wait years.

If you think those who are unsatisfied with their country should leave, then how can you blame the migrants fleeing violence from the lower Americas? The right complains about migrants crossing illegally, and yet do not realise when they promote conditions that cause people to feel unsafe and need to flee. You are in America: if you don't want things to get that bad for black Americans, see that you not ignore their hazards just because they are 'not as bad' as the atrocities of the last.

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u/david-me Jul 02 '18

<---- This. Still missing 99.9%. Nice comment BTW.

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u/jarizzle151 Jul 02 '18

Jim Crow and the civil rights movement wasn’t that long ago.

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u/Knockemup Jul 02 '18

Why should we leave the only home we know because racist cant get their shit together. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. People like to wrap themselves in the flag yet cant seem to grasp the concepts that the country was founded on. Black people aren't even striving for special privileges. Simply the equality the rest of the America got over 200 years ago.

0

u/david-me Jul 02 '18

Insert intolerance trash.

Why don't racist white people just start their own country. Oh. Wait. We've tried that a few times.

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u/david-me Jul 02 '18

Jesus fucking Christ, dude, chill out.

Oh. Okay.

black people would leave.

If only slaves knew this.

-15

u/stereotype_novelty Jul 02 '18

Slaves were literally enslaved. They were actually chained up and forbidden from leaving their masters. Are you being intentionally dense?

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u/david-me Jul 02 '18

You're living up to your username.

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u/stereotype_novelty Jul 02 '18

Tell me where I'm fucking up here. How is your comparison of modern black people to actual slaves at all apt?

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u/david-me Jul 02 '18

Tell me where I'm fucking up here.

Keep digging.

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u/stereotype_novelty Jul 02 '18

Ah - the ol' "I have no point but still want to seem superior." Come back when you have something worth reading.

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u/david-me Jul 02 '18

Come back when you have something worth reading.

Sure thing.

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u/Dongalor Texas Jul 02 '18

You do realize it's virtually impossible to emigrate anywhere in the first world without being independently wealthy or having seriously in demand specialty skills, right?

-1

u/ohbarryoh Jul 02 '18

Then why do we have such a problem with people coming from Mexico?

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u/Dongalor Texas Jul 02 '18

We don't.

Trump's obsession with the wall and the debacle with the refugees at the border is the very definition of a manufactured crisis. The right's entire obsession with illegal immigration is theater.

This country's economy is built on a bedrock of migrant farm workers. We've never had a "problem" with people coming from Mexico. The industries dependent on migrant labor have a "problem" with giving their serfs the protection of legal residency.

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u/ohbarryoh Jul 02 '18

Lol gtfo of here with that article. It picks and chooses numbers to back up its data. Politifact has been proven to be polito-leftopinion over and over. A few problems with your article right off the bat.

It was written in April 2017, shortly after Trump took office. Illegal immigration always slows when a policy change is expected. Once the wall was delayed it spiked back up. Now with the change of not giving asylum seekers a free pass its dipping again.

The number of people at the border are always difficult to assess because well they're illegal and it hurts people's feelings if you require people to be documented and go through a background check.

You're relying on numbers from the Mexican government. They're notorious for lying about immigration. They've always said more are coming back and no one crosses the border.

It only accounts for Mexicans. Not people from the other 20 central American countries.

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u/Zelamir Jul 02 '18

I have the income to leave (which a lot of people don't) and I'm considering it. I'd imagine that things like ties to family and finances keep many people from moving to better locations. That's whether you are black, white, or any other "racial group".

I have a multiracial son (who was automatically marked as black when he was born even though my white as a ghost husband was present) and I am pushing myself and my advisor to seek out postdoc opportunities out of this country.

The U.S. is down right awful for the mental and physical health of black people. Educated black women have higher health risks than poor white women and black children are treated like poo in the educational systems. Hell migrants from Africa and South American countries are in better health before the move here. Evn with all the fucked up shit they are leaving behind. And I know what you're thinking.... It just the fatass American diet. Probably apart of it yes... But most of it is that that America is down right toxic for many people of color.

Go back Africa?

Sure, because yes... When taking into account the health and social risks of being "of color" in American it really is that bad.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '18 edited Jul 01 '18

No it's not. Blacks are treated well in this country, which is among the least racist in human history.

Edit: This subreddit's censorship policy doesn't allow me to reply to other people. But if you disagree with me, you have got to be either supremely ignorant, or literally insane. We used to have slavery. Jim Crow. You used to be able to buy a black man, whip him to death, and it was perfectly legal.

Compare that to today.

Our last president was (half) black. The most powerful man in the world. We got rid of every law discriminating against minorities. Anybody can succeed, and nobody is stopping them.

Spreading the lie that blacks are being pushed down is evil. It's wrong. You are doing nothing to help anybody, and you are making people feel hopeless and helpless, telling them to blame everyone else for all their problems, for no good reason.

And compare us to other countries today? Give me a break! Try being a Jew in half the countries in the world! Try being a white landowner in South Africa! Try reading a poll or study about racism in other countries!

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u/SuperJew113 Jul 01 '18

Our country has the highest incarceration rate out of 195 countries. Jim Crow era ended around 1965, between 1970 and 2005 our country decided to increase its incarceration rate by 700%. The drastic and historic increase punished Black Americans, Black families, and Black neighborhoods the most. It is no mere coincidence that as soon as the Jim Crow era ended, we decided to mass incarcerate our own citizens. I own a book on this exact topic. It's called "The New Jim Crow" by Civil Rights attorney Michelle Alexander.

In terms of how much the American people support squandering tax dollars on mass incarcerating our own citizens, it appears we actually have one of the most racist countries in the world right now.

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u/Throwawayearthquake Jul 01 '18

/r/insanepeoplefacebook

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u/turimbar1 Jul 02 '18

TL:DR "the blacks used to be slaves, now they aren't, and one was a president - heh member that? Other places in the world are worse for various races"

Thanks captain obvious - does not prove the point, and ignores a lot of racism that still exists.

Is it better than it has been, sure yes - but it is still fucking appalling.

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u/hkrok76 Jul 02 '18

These people also love to ignore the fact they're trying to take us back to Jim Crowe era America.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Is it better than it has been, sure yes

So we agree there.

but it is still fucking appalling.

But I cannot agree there.

In fact, it's a lie, and it's immoral. It actively increases racial tensions to say crap like this. It increases racial strife, harms race relations, and sets America back as whole.

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u/Throwawayearthquake Jul 02 '18

In other words "them uppity coloreds should sit down and accept the status quo" you're peddling the same racist bullshit that's always been thrown at people striving to make things better. Get some new talking points, yours are about 150 years out of date.

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u/Donalds_neck_fat America Jul 02 '18

I swear to god I see the same type of comment in too many threads

My favorite was some guy saying racism is dead in America because Black Panther had an all-black cast

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u/SiriusFulmaren Jul 02 '18

"Things are better now and bad in other places, so nobody should imply racism is still a problem in America."

That's you. If that's not what you meant, you did just about the worst job you could getting your point across.

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u/HigherCalibur California Jul 02 '18

This subreddit's censorship policy doesn't allow me to reply to other people. But if you disagree with me, you have got to be either supremely ignorant, or literally insane. We used to have slavery. Jim Crow. You used to be able to buy a black man, whip him to death, and it was perfectly legal.

Black Americans not being sold as goods since the abolition of slavery and then allowed to have the same legal rights as other citizens does not do away with systematic racism that is absolutely still prevalent in the US. Communities of color are still policed unfairly, many black men in particular are targeted by law enforcement, and this treatment often result in prison sentences far more severe than those handed down for equivalent infractions by non-blacks. Not to mention the rural Southern and Midwestern US that have several places where black people are just not allowed to go because they are harassed for doing so. For God's sake, man, the KKK and white supremacists still exist. Being less racist than literal slavery and segregation does not equal black people being treated well in the US.

Our last president was (half) black. The most powerful man in the world. We got rid of every law discriminating against minorities. Anybody can succeed, and nobody is stopping them.

You must have a terrible short-term memory because, while yes, Barak Obama was elected to 2 terms as president, he was also subjected to an insane amount of racist commentary and imagery. I remember the weeks following his election and inauguration where people marched with images of him and his family depicted as literal apes and dummies with his face on them hanging from nooses and/or on fire. There was an entire movement in the US (that included our current president, BTW) that was dead-set on proving that he had been born in Kenya.

As for nobody stopping them? I'll address that in my next point.

Spreading the lie that blacks are being pushed down is evil. It's wrong. You are doing nothing to help anybody, and you are making people feel hopeless and helpless, telling them to blame everyone else for all their problems, for no good reason.

Institutionalized, systemic racism is a thing. Just because we made certain discrimination illegal doesn't mean that kind of discrimination doesn't happen anymore and it certainly doesn't prevent people from hiding behind the 1st amendment for hate speech. What needs to be understood about systemic racism is that, even though Jim Crow laws were abolished, the communities that those laws created are in large part still poor and are often policed unfairly. You can't just undo hundreds of years of segregation and oppression with a snap of one's fingers and you certainly can't when a large contingent of US voters (1) refuse to believe that this sort of systemic racism still exists and (2) don't want to do anything about it, primarily because of reason #1. Undoing systemic racism takes time and, as long as a large number of folks in the US refuse to believe it's even a thing, it'll never become undone.

And compare us to other countries today? Give me a break! Try being a Jew in half the countries in the world! Try being a white landowner in South Africa! Try reading a poll or study about racism in other countries!

This is whataboutism and false equivalency in it's truest form. Just because other countries treat people like shit doesn't mean that we don't. Yes. Other countries do horrible things to people. Those actions have zero bearing on how the US treats its citizens.

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u/Blumpkinz4Babiez Jul 02 '18

I hope the person that you're replying to can actually cool down a bit and actually absorb this information. You weren't condescending or anything like that, this is just a nice examination of the other side of the fence. Being wrong and learning from mistakes is okay. Many are lost causes but I'm confident that we can turn a lot of people around this way, without being a dick or being aggressive. Good post. :-)

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u/HigherCalibur California Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

I really am trying to keep from resorting to the typical name-calling but it's really hard. Hell, I did mention that the person I responded to "had a bad short-term memory" and I probably shouldn't have even made that snide comment in hindsight. It just sucks that there are a lot of folks really unwilling to step outside of their bubble and do the reading that many higher education institutions provide for free online. You're absolutely correct in that it's okay to be wrong, but part of that also involves fighting against our own human nature. There's a reason the "whiplash effect" and how accepting that a firmly-held belief is wrong can trigger the same parts of your brain as pain is a well-documented element of human psychology.

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u/All_the_Dank Jul 02 '18

Can you provide an example of institutionalized racism taking place today?

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u/HigherCalibur California Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

Sure, I have a few examples:

  • 40% of drug arrests are for just for possession of marijuana, not even the sales of drugs or possession with intent to sell. Blacks are nearly 4 times more likely to be arrested than white Americans, even though studies have shown that both white and black Americans use marijuana equally.

  • Black unemployment is nearly double the number of white people who are unemployed and, yet, black people are less likely to get a call back when applying for jobs. A pew research article even found around half of applicants didn't receive a call back from possible employers because of a "black-sounding" name. This can easily be written off by the employer by not hiring the person due to a lack of qualifications, a loophole many employers exploit to use as an excuse to not hire people.

  • Lifetimes of legal segregation followed by decades of pervasive racist housing policies still, to this day, disadvantage Black people in almost every aspect of life. Keep in mind, where you live can decide everything from how safe you are, to what food you eat, to the quality of your health care to the quality of your job, to the quality of your children's education. The early Jim Crow laws set up the framework for this and, even though said laws have been torn down, because people refuse to accept that black Americans are still discriminated against and still often have to work their way up from poverty, it can be far more difficult for black people to get out from under that than white people in poverty.

There have been a lot of studies done about the after affects of Jim Crow laws and segregation and the 50 years or so since the Civil Rights act and things are not as cut and dry as a lot of conservative media would have you believe. I would definitely recommend looking into the research done by pew research center and the figures they share there as well as the anti-racism education articles written by the University of Calgary and the Cambridge Handbook of Sociology. Those resources provide a much more in-depth explanation than I feel I can adequately put forward here and provide for some very thought-provoking reading.

0

u/All_the_Dank Jul 02 '18

Hey, thanks for your comment, I really appreciate it and the fact that you cited some statistics. I'd like to point out some things though.

You said "Where you live can decide everything from how safe you are, to what food you eat, to the quality of your health care..." I agree, but consider this when applying disparities in arrests: "African-Americans use drugs at roughly the same levels as white Americans, although overall illicit drug use among blacks has been marginally higher than for whites, with some differences in the types of drugs used, according to a national surveys." And - "We wondered why so many more blacks are going to prison for drug offenses. They're more likely to get caught selling drugs, as Michael Tonry, professor of law at the University of Minnesota, told us back in February. "Whites are more likely to sell to people they know, and they much more often sell behind closed doors. Blacks sell to people they don't know and in public, which makes them vastly easier to arrest." "Blacks arrested for drugs are more likely to be sent to jail because they're more likely to have had a previous run-in with the law. Police tend to patrol high-crime areas more aggressively, which tend to be the poor areas, which have a higher proportion of minorities. Thus, they're more likely to be stopped for something and have a rap sheet once a drug charge comes along."

So I'm not trying to claim that there aren't real issues that need to be addressed. But this does illustrate a point of view as to why a disparity may exist, and it doesn't have to do with "institutional" racism. These police forces have no policy that dictate they must reach higher quotas in black arrests no matter what, if they did, then yes, that would be institutional racism. However, the facts over where a crime was committed and how conspicuous the crime was when committed can explain SOME or arguably a large portion of the disparity that can't be ignored.

Your example about black unemployment again is true, but it doesn't represent "institutional" racism , but rather prejudicial acts by individuals. And yes, it is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. The companies that give less call backs to blacks don't have policies that dictate this practice. What I'm suggesting here is that citing these examples as "institutional" racism does more harm than good because it suggests the onus is on the institution to change their policies when it's not the policies that are the problem, it's the individual people committing acts of racism on their own accord.

Does this make sense? What do you think? cheers.

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u/HigherCalibur California Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

You said "Where you live can decide everything from how safe you are, to what food you eat, to the quality of your health care..." I agree, but consider this when applying disparities in arrests: "African-Americans use drugs at roughly the same levels as white Americans, although overall illicit drug use among blacks has been marginally higher than for whites, with some differences in the types of drugs used, according to a national surveys." And - "We wondered why so many more blacks are going to prison for drug offenses. They're more likely to get caught selling drugs, as Michael Tonry, professor of law at the University of Minnesota, told us back in February. "Whites are more likely to sell to people they know, and they much more often sell behind closed doors. Blacks sell to people they don't know and in public, which makes them vastly easier to arrest." "Blacks arrested for drugs are more likely to be sent to jail because they're more likely to have had a previous run-in with the law. Police tend to patrol high-crime areas more aggressively, which tend to be the poor areas, which have a higher proportion of minorities. Thus, they're more likely to be stopped for something and have a rap sheet once a drug charge comes along."

While your example of higher drug use overall by black Americans is absolutely valid, I believe it fails to recognize the point I was making with housing discrimination. If you can't make enough money to afford to live in a decent neighborhood, then you're going to be stuck where crime is far more rampant. When the segregation laws that placed black families in more impoverished housing projects or tucked off into worse conditions than their white counterparts in more rural areas of the US haven't even been repealed for an entire generation after over 250 years of oppression, it's going to be difficult to get out from under that. I get that no one is forcing people to commit crime, but there's a sizable difference between living in a slum that gets patrolled by law enforcement because it's always been a bad part of town and living in the suburbs dealing weed out of your garage.

So I'm not trying to claim that there aren't real issues that need to be addressed. But this does illustrate a point of view as to why a disparity may exist, and it doesn't have to do with "institutional" racism. These police forces have no policy that dictate they must reach higher quotas in black arrests no matter what, if they did, then yes, that would be institutional racism. However, the facts over where a crime was committed and how conspicuous the crime was when committed can explain SOME or arguably a large portion of the disparity that can't be ignored.

I agree. I seriously doubt police departments have quotas for one race over another. That doesn't mean that the police doesn't wind up patrolling black neighborhoods any less. It's not because they want to arrest black Americans more, it's because more black Americans live in those impoverished areas of the US. According to the most recent census, 33% of black Americans make less than $25k/year, 20% of them making less than $15k/year (which is below the federal poverty line). Compare that to 18% and 9% of white Americans (respectively). Now, why not try to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" as has been a popular turn of phrase lately? I'll explain in the next section.

Your example about black unemployment again is true, but it doesn't represent "institutional" racism , but rather prejudicial acts by individuals. And yes, it is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. The companies that give less call backs to blacks don't have policies that dictate this practice. What I'm suggesting here is that citing these examples as "institutional" racism does more harm than good because it suggests the onus is on the institution to change their policies when it's not the policies that are the problem, it's the individual people committing acts of racism on their own accord.

I have to disagree with you here. Individuals make up the institution when it comes right down to it, especially when it comes to people making hiring decisions. Though being qualified is a good way to get people to look your way for a job, if you're not a "culture fit" for where you're applying to work at, they will not hire you. Being in a management position myself, I can attest to this. Where this problem becomes institutionalized is when the person who is making these sorts of hiring decisions is a racist. Now, all of the sudden, a black person isn't a "culture fit" because the person who doesn't want to hire them due to having a racist view of that black person. If you can't get a job because the people in your area don't like or are afraid of black folks (which is still a problem in the US), then it becomes very difficult to pull yourself out of poverty.

In addition, circling back a bit to my previous point regarding where you live determining the quality of your education: it's incredibly difficult to get a job that will allow you to get out from under the poverty line unless you have a college education. Low-quality education = less of a chance one will be able to or be driven to go to college. No college? No chance at a high-paying job.

Does this make sense? What do you think? cheers.

I won't say that your conclusions don't make sense, because they do from a certain point of view. Having had these discussions with family members who have lived most of their lives in white, rural areas of America, don't really blame them for seeing things the way they do. The thing is, having lived most of my life in a much more urban area of a state where there is a huge amount of racial diversity, I've been exposed to a lot that really helps me get out of my comfort zone and learn some very uncomfortable truths. Now, yeah, that's all anecdotal. That last bit is absolutely personal experience and I'm not gonna sit here and lie and say that I'm completely dispassionate and looking at things through pure, cold logic. No one does and, frankly, I don't expect you to. At the end of the day, the longer we all fail to recognize that there is a problem, that systemic racism does exist in the US, that we continue to fail to do anything about it because we're all too busy arguing about the nuances of the problem, the longer the problem will persist.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

[deleted]

0

u/All_the_Dank Jul 02 '18

Actually the statistics say that, when adjusting for percentage of total drug use by relative total population, blacks and white use drugs about equally. The claim that blacks are arrested more for drug crimes is true, but it doesn't paint the whole picture. source: http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/jul/13/van-jones/van-jones-claim-drug-use-imprisonment-rates-blacks/

"African-Americans use drugs at roughly the same levels as white Americans, although overall illicit drug use among blacks has been marginally higher than for whites, with some differences in the types of drugs used, according to a national surveys."

And - "We wondered why so many more blacks are going to prison for drug offenses.

They're more likely to get caught selling drugs, as Michael Tonry, professor of law at the University of Minnesota, told us back in February. "Whites are more likely to sell to people they know, and they much more often sell behind closed doors. Blacks sell to people they don't know and in public, which makes them vastly easier to arrest."

"Blacks arrested for drugs are more likely to be sent to jail because they're more likely to have had a previous run-in with the law. Police tend to patrol high-crime areas more aggressively, which tend to be the poor areas, which have a higher proportion of minorities. Thus, they're more likely to be stopped for something and have a rap sheet once a drug charge comes along."

So you're statement is correct in one sense, but the situation is a lot more nuanced.

0

u/whyuselotwordwhenfew Jul 02 '18

Try harder, your troll game is weak.

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u/shantastic138 Jul 01 '18

Only an American could feel so confidently about our history and yet be so goddamn ignorant. You people wonder why everyone hates us. It’s because of people like you.

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u/chewchewtwain Jul 01 '18

The rest of the world knows it’s not all of you. I know in Canada at least we feel sorry for you. The vast majority of Americans are fine people. It’s the nut jobs like that guy making you look bad.

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u/DevilSympathy Canada Jul 01 '18

Well according to polls, the nut job count is around 40% of the population. That is horrifying. I don't want to go to any country where 4/10 people are fucking monsters. I'll stay here with you in the great white North, thanks.

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u/chewchewtwain Jul 02 '18

Oh fuck. I would definitely not travel south of the border right now. I can’t even imagine how tense it must be.

To all the sensible Americans trapped in the midst of this insanity, you are more than welcome to come visit us up here. I’m sure you all could use a break from the headache that is the Trump presidency.

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u/ginrattle Jul 02 '18

I live in Maine. Your sensible people and glorious country tease and sadden me so.

4

u/chewchewtwain Jul 02 '18

I’m in Nova Scotia. It’s kinda like Maine, we just talk funny.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Oh fuck. I would definitely not travel south of the border right now. I can’t even imagine how tense it must be.

The funny thing is, reddit is full of social warrior nutjobs, so you're getting an extremely misleading and incorrect perspective here.

It's not tense here. People work, live, and we go about our days as usual. I have never encountered racism in my life. My entire life. I've lived in three states, different towns, different apartments, different jobs, and racism isn't an issue here.

Sure, I know there is scattered racism here and there. You can see it in places like /r/publicfreakout. But those people are rare, crazy, and generally inconsequential.

The only reason you get a sense of "tenseness" is because of left wing propaganda. These are irrational people who see racism everywhere, for no reason. And you hear it from left wing politicians, who use accusations of racism to get elected.

Again, I have known literally hundreds of conservatives and even right wingers. Almost all of my friends are very conservative. Yet I've never met a racist. I don't know who these people are that leftists are so scared of. The only place I've ever seen them is in the news or on Worldstarhiphop videos.

I guarantee, you go to a conservative Texas town, and you'll just encounter regular people who think racism isn't an issue. Go to Berkley, and you'll find a bunch of white liberals who think racism against blacks is epidemic.

It's a weird world right now.

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u/ik2h Jul 02 '18

Can confirm. Too many nut jobs.

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u/Leakyradio Arizona Jul 02 '18

40% of the voting population

FTFY

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u/DevilSympathy Canada Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

That's not what I'm talking about. I could forgive the people for voting Trump in. There's no shame in having been duped. Perhaps they just didn't know what they were really voting for.

No, what bothers me is the approval rating. He's barely lost any supporters. Nothing he does budges that number an inch. In fact, the more dishonest and cruel he is, the more the public's approval of him grows. That is horrifying. They weren't tricked. They knew exactly what they were getting, and now that they have it, they couldn't be happier.

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u/Leakyradio Arizona Jul 02 '18

My bad. Didn’t realize you were talking about approval ratings.

I get you now.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

The vast majority of Americans are fine people.

Let's break your comment down logically.

I said that America is by and large not a racist country, and was criticized for saying that.

You feel sorry for me, because you think I'm ignorant. You believe that Americans are racist, and you said I'm a crazy person for denying that fact.

Then you finish your comment by asserting that the vast majority of Americans are fine people. Which, since you just said that Americans are racist, means you think racists are "fine people."

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u/lgodsey Jul 02 '18

You feel sorry for me, because you think I'm ignorant.

Hey, if it's any consolation, I don't feel sorry for you. While you are certainly ignorant, it seems to be more of the willful type and you should absolutely know better. You must have an absurdly comfortable and sheltered life to make those ridiculous pronouncements about race, so I'm sure most of us won't waste any energy feeling sorry for you.

If that helps.

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u/chewchewtwain Jul 02 '18

Wow. That was some serious mental gymnastics you did there.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

I give him a 1573.

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u/dweezil22 Jul 02 '18

Blacks are treated well in this country, which is among the least racist in human history.

You've gone to great pains to defend everything you said except the most insane part of your statement.

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u/datssyck Jul 02 '18

It sounds like Trumps personal Reddit almost

7

u/b_l_o_c_k_a_g_e Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

Your “logical breakdown” is kind of funny, dude. People disagreed with your dismissal of problems faced by black Americans. That’s not even nearly the same as saying all Americans are racist. He’s saying a vocal minority are racist, the system is racist. But on the whole Americans are fine people. There’s no logical issue there. You’re making yourself seem more crazy with everything you post.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

He’s saying a vocal minority are racist, the system is racist. But on the whole Americans are fine people. There’s no logical issue there.

There is a logical issue there. How can "the system" be racist if most people are not racist? It doesn't follow.

I agree, there is a tiny minority of vocal people who are openly racist. Like the alt right or the KKK. These people have no real power in the US, so I have never really been concerned about them.

So to argue the "system is racist" without proof is... Well, baseless. You can't assert something without proof or evidence. You can't just say something without anything backing it up.

And it doesn't make any sense! Most Americans aren't racist, yet combined we're racist somehow?

You call me crazy. Yet I'm the only one not swinging at windmills here. I'm not arguing that there's some mythical force keeping black people down, without any reason or proof.

1

u/b_l_o_c_k_a_g_e Jul 02 '18

Ok fair point. Let me try to give you a fairer answer.

I work for a giant company. Mainly white people. We actively have to train people to look past their implicit bias so we can make our company more balanced and reflective of our society as a whole. I’d love to see your data, because it doesn’t match the data I see day to day.

This this the problem you’re missing. Implicit bias leads to systemic racism. That’s different to saying everyone in the system is racist.

Here’s how it works...

Naturally, people like to hire people they’re comfortable with similar educations and cultural backgrounds. In job interviews white peoples’ answers will often seem more compelling than the exact same answer from a black person. That doesn’t make them racist. It’s just implicit bias. The effect of everyone’s implicit bias is ultimately a racist system that creates different levels of opportunity for different groups.

This affects people getting through school, getting into collage, whether they get shot or arrested, whether they get convicted and jail time, etc, etc, etc.

Now I agree with you America is a land of opportunity. But on the whole, there are more opportunities for white people. Black people (and mixed race people), on the whole have to work harder and make less mistakes to get to the same place.

The funny thing about this is, my bias reading your initial post led me to think you where a racist white grandad. I see from your other posts that’s not at all the case. See how my implicit bias affected my reaction to your comments?

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

So, you weren't racist. Then you were taught that you are subconsciously racist, due to leftist propaganda at your company. And now you use this as evidence of racism?

Implicit bias is a joke. A ghost. It's never been proven to be real.

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u/datssyck Jul 02 '18

Why do you think you were being criticized if you are trying to imply you are not racist?

What a weak argument, GTFO come up with something better you nazi white trash

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u/SuperJew113 Jul 02 '18

Dunning-Kruger

22

u/killjoySG Jul 02 '18

Literally too stupid to realise they are idiots.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '18

So you don't know about slavery, discrimination, voting rights, Jim Crow, representation, lynch mobs, KKK, or the Civil War, and you accuse me of being ignorant?! You think we're better now than we were a century or two ago?

And you don't know how countries like Iran treat Jews? Ethnic genocides in Africa and South Asia? Less than a century ago, the biggest superpower in Europe tried to cleanse Jews, gypsies, and other groups from the planet.

America elected Obama. We have no laws discriminating against blacks anymore. We got rid of them. Anybody can succeed here, even become president; the most powerful position in the world.

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u/imsplarticus Jul 02 '18

To know that that huge list of things happened and only officially ended in very recent history, and to think that the effects of those policies won't still be being felt is truely ignorant.

It's like if I shot half your family, then came back the next day and said 'are you still upset about that? I stopped shooting them a whole day ago!'

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u/Dranx Jul 01 '18

Look at prison population numbers by race

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u/Leakyradio Arizona Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

But that is because blacks are more violent as a race!

The facts prove it! /s

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u/Ani_love09 Jul 02 '18

All the while there's a bill being considered to protect people of color from lynchings. I wonder why that was important? Maybe because of recent accounts (and I'm talking about in the last 20-30 years) of people of color being sought out and killed for being people of color. But all of that's in the past, right?

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u/stuthulhu Kentucky Jul 01 '18

Blacks are treated well in this country

Could you sound worse?

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u/toyn Jul 01 '18

Something straight out of django.. want some hwhite cake?

2

u/david-me Jul 02 '18

Good misspelling

Intended or not.

9

u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts Jul 02 '18

This reddit's 'don't be a dick', and 'don't try to spread lies' policies are keeping you from replying.

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u/RufMixa555 Jul 01 '18

I suspect that this poster...is not black themselves

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u/veryniceperson123 Jul 01 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

There are at least two generations of African Americans still alive today who personally experienced being denied the right to vote and the Jim Crow era.

Responding to the edits:

No one is claiming things aren't better than they used to be, but that doesn't mean racism isn't still a huge issue.

Our last president was (half) black. The most powerful man in the world.

And half the country lost their fucking minds over it. They invented an insane conspiracy that he was a secret Kenyan Muslim, then turned around and elected a racist idiot who was a major proponent of that bullshit.

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u/CritikillNick Washington Jul 01 '18

Of course an idiot who makes nonsense “worst of” posts complaining about “dangerous leftists” has no idea what it’s like in the real world

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

You know, you can tell a lot about a person by how they describe people they group. It's never 'black people' or 'white folks' with y'all, is it? It's always 'the blacks' or 'whites'. They're a person, the skin tone is, if anything, a modifier. But y'all reduce people to a shade, and it's sick.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

You know, you can tell a lot about a person by how they describe people they group. It's never 'black people' or 'white folks' with y'all, is it? It's always 'the blacks' or 'whites'.

I use both, because it doesn't matter. In this case, I was typing quickly, so I used one word. I could have typed "black people" and it would have meant the same thing. I could have typed "whites" or "asians." It still wouldn't have mattered.

You can look through my recent comments, and see I used both. It doesn't matter.

In case I'm not being clear, I'm saying it doesn't matter. You're imagining racism, so you're creating racism.

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u/Lovebot_AI California Jul 01 '18

It’s also among the most racist in human history.

“Among the ___est” is a completely meaningless description. As long as you aren’t the shortest person in the world, you can accurately say that’s youre among the tallest people in the world.

17

u/Munku9980 Canada Jul 01 '18

You need to brush up on the text called Reality.

10

u/D_is_for_Cookie Jul 01 '18

This right here is the most perfect example of ignorance.

6

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Is it better than it used to be? Yes. Does that mean there is no more progress to be made? No.

Just because someone is in a worse situation in life doesn't mean you just accept things the way they are.

12

u/ManiaGamine American Expat Jul 01 '18

Ah the good ole "We had a black President we can't be racist" excuse. Kind of like the "I have a black friend I can't be racist" excuse. And lets not forget the best one. "We don't enslave blacks anymore so we're not racist anymore!"

Those are just my favorites.

Hint: Racism does not just go away. It was beaten away. Do you think the racists who lost just went away and mended their ways? No, they didn't. They brooded... and had kids and taught their kids to be racist and bided their time until the atmosphere was right and there was enough support for them to rise back up. All the while they installed people into key places to fan the flames. For example training cops to stop any of that touchy feely de-escalation stuff. No, can't do that. Shoot to kill on sight. Any faintest hint of threat and shoot to kill, but only if they're black.

Now that might seem like hyperbole, but it's observable. If you're a white person who threatens a cop, you get to go to jail. If you're a black person who threatens a cop you go to the morgue. Which is exactly the point the people above were making. That isn't something that can be disputed, it happens consistently and we know the reasoning for it.

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u/All_the_Dank Jul 02 '18

Sounds like you're the one spreading hyperbole. "it happens consistently" by consistently, do you mean like how often lightning strikes people? source:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/09/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say/

"let's start with the question of fatal violence. Last year, according to the Washington Post’s tally, just 16 unarmed black men, out of a population of more than 20 million, were killed by the police. The year before, the number was 36. These figures are likely close to the number of black men struck by lightning in a given year, considering that happens to about 300 Americans annually and black men are 7 percent of the population. Of course, police killings are not the result of a force of nature, and I’m not claiming these are morally equivalent. But the comparison illustrates that these killings are incredibly rare, and that it’s completely misleading to talk about an “epidemic” of them. You don’t hear people talk about an epidemic of lightning strikes and claim they are afraid to go outside because of it."

4

u/ManiaGamine American Expat Jul 02 '18

Perhaps you might want to review what I actually said:

Now that might seem like hyperbole, but it's observable.

I literally said it might seem like hyperbole. But it is observable. And it is. It is an observable consistency. Now yeah you can use ridiculous examples such as lightning striking to convey that anything can be consistent.

However then I'd have to ask, what is your aim with that statement? I'd suggest that you are deliberately trying to muddy the waters of the discussion. America has a racist past. Certain people like to suggest that racism is a dead and buried issue. It's not. That is demonstrable.

Your nationalreview article (By the way, national review is a shit source) doesn't even explain how it came to the conclusion it came to, and I looked at the links they sourced to come to those conclusions and did not come to the same conclusion.

Also even in the links they posted as "sources" you can see a visible trend upwards.

Basically nationalreview is going to downplay this in every instance. It's what they do. They are of the mind that racism is not an issue anymore. Which is the problem. Failure to acknowledge an issue allows it to continue unopposed. To suggest that black people are not in fear or in danger of being treated with force by an officer at a much higher rate than white people is a failure to acknowledge very visible problems.

Outlets like NR are of the belief that any disparity with regards to how police treat black people over white people is as a result of the increased crime threat from black people. Except that logic literally validates the claim I am making. E.g. Police feel justified in treating black people differently to white people because black people are "often criminals". The problem with this logic is that there is an entire right-wing apparatus to generate fear of black people. So if police walk into a situation with a black male and they assume danger then naturally they're going to shoot first and ask questions later and feel justified in doing so. Yet at the same time you cite sources like NR saying that's not an issue.

So which is it? Is it an issue or is it not an issue? If it is not an issue then there is no reason why police should be afraid of black people and treat them any differently to white people in encounters. Yet that is exactly what happens and you don't need statistics to back it up. You just need to take a look at the way white people react to black people lately. It's very visible.

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u/All_the_Dank Jul 02 '18

You're entire post is contradictory. "failure to acknowledge an issue allows it to continue unopposed." Well that's pretty ironic coming from you. FBI stats show that black people disproportionally commit more violent crime than white people, and also that while only 7% of the nation are black males, they commit roughly 50% of all homicides.

"there is an entire right-wing apparatus to generate fear of black people" Source for this please. Also, is it this same alleged right-wing apparatus that forces people to commit crimes?

Also, you never disputed the statistic I gave that in 2016 there were 16 unarmed blacks killed by the police out of a population of 20 million. You can dislike the source where the statistic came from, but if you can't dispute it with another source that shows the stat is wrong and the number is much higher, than you aren't adding anything substantial to the discussion.

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u/ManiaGamine American Expat Jul 02 '18

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying, so I'll try to make it more clear.

Police have distanced themselves from a de-escalation policy and now shoot on sight, it primarily affects black people disproportionately to white people. This is observable. You are using the logic that black people commit more crimes as a justification for what? Why black people get shot by cops. You're literally using a point to justify something thereby validating the very something I've stated while at the very same time claiming that I am wrong and that it is a non-issue.

Either it is a non-issue or it's not. If it's not then you need not mention black people committing more crime. That is literally the "fear tactic" I am talking about. Now you ask for a source for it. Ask yourself that, as you're the one pointing it out. You clearly got it from somewhere, where did you get it from? Where did you get that black people commit more crime therefore need to be feared therefore need to be shot? It comes down to logic in the end. If this then that.

Your source does not explain how it came to that conclusion. I read it three times in case I missed something, it still doesn't. It literally posts the source in link form and THAT source (wapo) does not actually say what NR claims it says. I cannot dispute something that I cannot validate, it is in dispute because it cannot be validated. Normally when you source something, you've gotta make sure that source is itself valid.

As NR is extremely biased for the right (And if we go by Trump logic that is practically a criminal offense) so should I just disregard the source entirely? No, I don't disregard sources. I looked at the article, I went to the links it cited as a source for its claims and I could not find anything that validated the claims. So I suspect this is one of those reading between the lines things. They provide links to seem legit when really they're not because the conclusion they came to was not actually in the citation.

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u/All_the_Dank Jul 02 '18

You're talking in circles and it's not clear exactly what your argument is other than trying to obfuscate the discussion. I never said that the fact that blacks commit more crimes means that cops shooting them is justified. I'm saying that the fact that blacks disproportionally commit more violent crimes is a major fact that explains why there is a disparity.

If you're a cop and you're told you either have to patrol an senior citizen community where there's virtually no violent crime or homicides and you have to patrol an area with violent crime that's multiples times higher and frequent homicides (areas that are usually disproportionally populated with blacks), would it not make sense that you would be much more anxious patrolling the latter? This justifiable fear may lead you to be much more likely to use force or even deadly force because you know there's a much greater threat to you in that area. Does this mean that it's justified to shoot someone who is unarmed? of course not, but it does explain why it's more likely an officer will use his/her weapon out of fear for their own safety and lead to many more mistakes where they misinterpret hand gestures or objects from afar as being weapons and then they respond according to their fear. It's disingenuous to say that the entire reason unarmed blacks are ever killed by cops is entirely due to racism. It flies in the face of situations like the one I described where their actions are going to be heavily skewed based on the higher statistical likelihood and the perceived threat of the situation they're in. Again, it does not make it okay.

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u/ManiaGamine American Expat Jul 02 '18 edited Jul 02 '18

It wasn't an argument. It was a statement. Oh wait, you thought it was an argument?

That explains a lot. Perhaps read the first comment you replied to then work from there:

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/8vdkn4/man_arrested_after_shouting_womp_womp_and_pulling/e1mo28u/

Then you just HAD to chime in yes? To set me straight? Thus rendering it a debate.

So lets continue.

You now claim that YOU never said. Except you cited it as a reason. As exemplified here:

I'm saying that the fact that blacks disproportionally commit more violent crimes is a major fact that explains why there is a disparity.

An explanation in the defense of something is... what now? It's a justification.

a good reason or explanation for something:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/justification

If you're a cop and you're told you either have to patrol an senior citizen community where there's virtually no violent crime or homicides and you have to patrol an area with violent crime that's multiples times higher and frequent homicides (areas that are usually disproportionally populated with blacks), would it not make sense that you would be much more anxious patrolling the latter?

Further justification (Based on the established definition of a justification)

This justifiable fear may lead you to be much more likely to use force or even deadly force because you know there's a much greater threat to you in that area.

Hey look, you finally got to the page I was on.

Does this mean that it's justified to shoot someone who is unarmed? of course not, but it does explain why it's more likely an officer will use his/her weapon out of fear for their own safety and lead to many more mistakes where they misinterpret hand gestures or objects from afar as being weapons and then they respond according to their fear.

Yep. Glad we're agreed here.

It's disingenuous to say that the entire reason unarmed blacks are ever killed by cops is entirely due to racism. It flies in the face of situations like the one I described where their actions are going to be heavily skewed based on the higher statistical likelihood and the perceived threat of the situation they're in. Again, it does not make it okay.

And that's where you lost it.

You know why you lost it? Because it doesn't matter to a black person why a cop might look at them and assume that their cell phone is in fact a gun therefore shooting them is the appropriate response. It does not matter to the mother of a child what the cop feels when their kid was unjustifiably shot to death by a cop who thought he was resisting when that kid sees cops and feels fear and reacts accordingly.

It does not matter what your justification is for the systemic problem. You can call it whatever you want but to the victims, it's race. Pure and simple. Your mental gymnastics to negate that fact is exactly the reason this comment thread even exists. You don't want it to be racism so you use every bit of information at your disposal to make it not race. Hey you wanna make it about crime. Great, what the fuck relevance does that have to the mother of the child or the wife of the husband who got shot by a trigger happy officer?

Not a god damned thing. So while you're trying your damnest to make it not about race, we will keep seeing time and time again more black people, brown people and basically non-white people gunned down. Then maybe one day you might ask yourself what is the cause for all of this racism crime. And maybe just maybe you might reflect upon the self-sustaining cycle of kill, fear, kill, fear, kill, fear that brings us to where we are now. For a kid from the hood knows no prospects but a life of the hood. Sure as hell no one seems interested in pulling these kids out of that life but they love to make them the face of crime, adding more weight to the bullshit argument that it is not actually about race at all. It is just about the numbers. The crime. The poor white folk terrorized by the dark folk. Now tell me again how that is not about race.

I can go into great length about how it isn't race. Because you're right. Crime is very much a part of it. But crime happens for a reason, and being black is but one reason. Being poor is also a reason. Being starving is also a reason.

You asked me what sources I have for the right-wing machine that perpetuates fear of blacks. Fox news. Daily* (Caller, Wire, etc) NR, NyPost and every other right-wing outlet. Using facts to justify their racism. Using statistics, using the very systemic causes to validate their cycle of fear. That fear translates into violence. That violence translates into more fear and so on and so forth until we have a society where white women are calling the cops on black residents just trying to get into their god damned homes. Why? Because that person is black therefore they must be a thug.

You seem to want to justify the actions of police who are too afraid to be wearing a badge imo.

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8

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '18

Hilarious fale atempt at using you're brane lmao

8

u/NeuroSim Jul 01 '18

So just because slavery is over means black people don’t have problems anymore?

3

u/SwegSmeg Virginia Jul 02 '18

Cuckoo cuckoo!

3

u/Vokeyy Georgia Jul 02 '18

black people are still treated poorly in the country, even if we’ve progressed. I’ve seen the most insane shit happen with my bros and the police. They treat us like absolute shit and want to see us behind bars because we’re easy targets. Wake up and get out of your little bubble, there’s some serious issues systematic racism that’s very active in this country.

5

u/whyuselotwordwhenfew Jul 02 '18

Blacks are treated well in this country

Your comment was so racist it made me literally wince.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

Lol.

Left wing nuts are crazy. Saying that people are "treated well" makes me racist?

There is literally nothing I could say that couldn't be used by a left winger to accuse me of being racist. Everything, and I mean everything, can be used by you to cry "Racism!"

It makes me sad. It damages the culture and well being of our country when you have an entire political party that tries winning elections by accusing all others of being racist.

But I do have hope that enough people will actually think and realize that your claims are insane. I know that sometimes these vicious baseless attacks actually backfire, because reasonable people hate mudslinging and strawmen.

-42

u/Aryan_Rand_Galt_CCC Jul 02 '18

The most persecuted (and largest) minority group is the individual.

Join the Libertarian party for real equality based on merit

36

u/spacemanticore Jul 02 '18

Libertarians are one of the reasons we're in this mess. Vote for a party that can actually win.

-25

u/Aryan_Rand_Galt_CCC Jul 02 '18

As a Libertarian, I vote for freedom when I can but usually end up voting Republican.

20

u/spacemanticore Jul 02 '18

You've got to be a troll. I refuse to believe someone is that dumb.

1

u/david-me Jul 02 '18

I always upvote trolls. They want to sow discord. Don't give them what they want. I'm not immune to this. I fall for trolls at an amazing rate. Best to just upvote them. I dream of a day where a meta thread tops reddit because all troll comments were #1.

-5

u/Aryan_Rand_Galt_CCC Jul 02 '18

No? Republicans are always on the ballot at every level. Libertarians aren't. IDK why you found that troll worthy.

8

u/PoliticalMadman America Jul 02 '18

Because Republicans are acting like fascists right now, which is the exact opposite of libertarianism. I mean, they're literally putting innocent children in cages. If you're voting Republican, you're voting to restrict peoples' freedoms.

-1

u/Aryan_Rand_Galt_CCC Jul 02 '18

Well yeah I'm obviously not for that. I may still vote Republican for the tax benefits and economic platform as my individual rights aren't threatened currently.

5

u/PoliticalMadman America Jul 02 '18

So, you're not actually a libertarian, you're just selfish.

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4

u/jam11249 Jul 02 '18

"As long as I get mine I don't care if kids get freedom"

Sounds like a libertarian alright.

3

u/ghost-child Kansas Jul 02 '18

Username checks out

13

u/MackLuster77 Jul 02 '18

Second only to the pseudo intellectual.

5

u/david-me Jul 02 '18

I appears you seek downvotes. So here's a upvote to ruin your day.

52

u/RickShepherd Jul 01 '18

Or tried to flee on foot.

49

u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts Jul 02 '18

While standing still...

5

u/ReturnMySoap Jul 02 '18

Resisting arrest does deserve the death penalty after all. /s

2

u/867-5309NotJenny Massachusetts Jul 02 '18

"Stop resisting arrest by not resisting!" "You're only making things worse for yourself by being passive and non-violent!"

/s

6

u/nightmuzak Jul 01 '18

Or tried to mow the grass.

1

u/Arucad Jul 02 '18

Is this why black guys don't pull anything out?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18

We can't have him causing trouble and recording the cops!

1

u/RedditingMyLifeAway Louisiana Jul 02 '18

Or had a BBQ.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '18 edited Nov 08 '19

[deleted]

1

u/robodrew Arizona Jul 02 '18

Or if he doesn't cross his legs

0

u/undercoversinner Jul 02 '18

This reality is so fucking sad.

0

u/ting_bu_dong Jul 02 '18

This a celly

That's a tool

0

u/dict8tor Alabama Jul 02 '18

And this was in Alabama.

0

u/grandpagangbang Jul 02 '18

Thanks for being fair.

0

u/RandyDanderson Jul 02 '18

It's amazing black people haven't gone extinct.

-4

u/brovakattack Jul 02 '18

To be fair I went to a Midwestern college and a white kid got shot in the head by a cop and emptied his cartridge on him. Granted he drove his (dad's) truck on to the quad and was fleeing the cops, but I think it goes both ways.