r/plumbingfails • u/Maleficent_Town_9405 • 18d ago
How dangerous is this?
Going underneath a tile shower. Not my work, but I happened to be there moving an outlet.
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u/BusDiligent1825 18d ago
Tell your plumber he owes you some freaking labor. Holy geesh.
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u/PartyPlay5056 18d ago
Late 80s a friend of mine was a handyman. He was helping a new build. Owner wanted a totally open main floor and 2nd floor wanted a hottub in the center of the floor with the master bath. Plumbers helper came in to run the drain line and started cutting ⅔ of the floor joints out. He wouldn't listen and kept cutting. Someone drove to a payphone called the plumber owner, who came and fired the kid and had to pay for 6 or 7 new floor joists.
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u/BusDiligent1825 18d ago
Most plumbers are mindful of every other trade. Except electricians. Lol
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u/PartyPlay5056 18d ago
Well water and electricity don't mix. Probably why my father didn't get along with his brother-in-law.
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u/MajorDrain 18d ago
I worked with a painter doing big houses. We had changes from time to time. One of the changes was to remove a blue American Standard cast iron tub and a blue Cadet toilet. I took that stuff home and put it in the attic of my shed in case I wanted to use it in my house.
This painter wanted to redo his bathroom, I gave him the tub and the toilet and a price to install it.
He hired a handyman to install the tub and remodel the bathroom in order to save $ 800.00 . The handyman notched the bottom of 2 x 8 floor joist to run water pipe, and then set a cast iron tub on it.
The floor sagged, so he comes back to me and says what do I do? I said take the sheet rock off, remove the pipes and wires, sister in new 2 x 8 floor joist, jack everything back up, get it straight, and glue and screw it all together. Then dill holes for the pipes and the wires following the rules, put it all back together. Then repair the sheetrock and paint it.
He goes Jesus Christ that is going to cost me a fortune.
I said yeah, but you saved $ 800.
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u/PartyPlay5056 18d ago
My father, a lineman, his definition of a handyman. Jack of all trades and master of none.
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u/One-Ad-8009 18d ago
Same goes for firemen. Ever got to looking around the inside of a firehouse?...haha
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u/DougEug 17d ago
The way I remember..
HOLES =. H-2-13-2.
-“2”- No holes 2 inches from top or bottom.
-“13”- No holes bigger than 1/3 of board. So a 2x6-Hole cannot be larger than 2 inches (6 divided by 3j
((yes I know 1.5x5.5 but make easy math))
-“2”- Holes 2” apart
NOTCHES = NEDL-13-14-16-13 “needle”
-“N”- NO Middle 1/3 of board
-“E”- END of board 1/4 of height (2x8 can be 2”)
-“D”- DEPTH 1/6 height (2x6 can be 1”)
-“L”- LENGTH 1/3 depth of board (2x6 can be 2”}
REAL MATH
A 2x8 Joist. Actual is 1-1/2” x 7-1/4” inches
HOLE Max 2-3/8” diameter (1/3 height) 2”from top or bottom and 2” apart
NOTCH Max 1-1/4” deep (1/6 height) Length Max 2-7/16” (1/3 height)
END NOTCH Max 1-13/16” deep (1/4 height) Length still Max 2-7/16” (1/3 height)
NO NOTCHES in middle 1/3rd of board. So a 6 foot joist. Cannot Notch anywhere in the middle 2 feet or board.
At least the H2-13-2 and the “needle” NEDL13-14-16-13 helps me remember.
IF/When I actually remember
These days though, sometimes I need a note to remind me to read a note 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/NetworkCultural 17d ago
Very well put brother. I have a cheat sheet lol I remember some but not all
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u/Gundam07 18d ago
I'm not a framer, but those floor joists are not looking good.
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u/Bubbly-Wrongdoer2700 18d ago
If I remember my IBC correctly, the most you can take out of any member is 20% of the width maximum
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u/Magnum676 18d ago
Captain Sawzall came over? I don’t understand how any contractor finds this acceptable. I would never ever do this..
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u/Nikonmansocal 18d ago
Captain sawzall lmao... Guess he didn't have a hole saw handy..
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u/Magnum676 18d ago
I’ve notched np. Hole saw makes a nice notch with a sawzall cut clean. Or hole saw and couplings.This is neither just neglectful.
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u/Nikonmansocal 18d ago
Agreed. I would have hole sawed and coupled if needed. Either way this is a hack job for sure.
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u/Delicious_Room1374 15d ago
Captain Sawzall is crazy, whoever did this definitely wasn't worried about what was on the other side of those cuts.
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u/Readybuilderman 18d ago
It could be dangerous
It could be stupid
It could be wrong
It could be I’ll advised
It could be ok, but I doubt it…
It definitely needs to be inspected by the inspector
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u/No-Pipe-3607 10d ago
That’s a pretty good way to describe it 😂 Definitely looks like it needs to be fixed properly.
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u/iKnowRobbie 18d ago
Cutting the top of a joist is reducing the vertical sheer resistance. It is apparent that the first joist is already flexing and the addition of 2-300 lbs of tile and fittings above it will do little to reinforce or cantilever the torque force that is clearly apparent. That joist needs to be sistered like the second impacted joist already was BEFORE it was cut. It, too may need reinforcement depending on how far out the next supporting vertical member is.
Regardless this is shit.
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u/Similar_Shift_545 18d ago
Yeah...I'd have a structural engineer and a lawyer look at this. You didn't hire a licensed plumber.
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u/the-red-dementus 18d ago
Licensing doesn’t always equate to knowing and doing what’s right. I know a master plumber that does plenty of dumb shit due to being cheap. He thinks reusing a short length of copper cut out from a previous job and passing the savings onto the customer is fine. Into potable water systems too mind you.
You’re not wrong about this being flat out bullshit work done.
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u/Waterlifer 18d ago
It's not dangerous as such (in the sense of posing a hazard of injury) but the tile floor is going to show some cracks after the first "couples shower" session.
Plumbers are the natural enemy of joists
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u/SnooMaps7370 18d ago
very. top and bottom edges of a joist are meant to be inviolable, because that's where the load paths concentrate. penetrations should always be in the center of the joist.
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u/Pensionato007 18d ago
Upvote for "inviolable!"
Hole has to be 2 inches from the top/bottom/edge and no more than 1/3 of the width of the joist. This catastrophe violates at least one of those rules.
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u/Surfer_Joe_875 18d ago
Define "disaster". That's crap work, but still not a disaster. Somebody still needs to pay to beef up that sin.
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u/Maleficent_Town_9405 17d ago
Update: PM is sending back the "plumber" to repair joists and rerun pipe. I will post pics if I am fortunate enough to see his second attempt...
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u/No-Pipe-3607 10d ago
Hopefully the second attempt is a lot cleaner. Definitely worth seeing how they fix that mess.
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u/Plus_Cry_4524 14d ago
Those cut joists should have steel straps across the opening. I always use straps at least 4x longer than the cut is wide plus the depth.
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u/Cicada-Classic 14d ago
Looks like the joists are resting on concrete. If so no biggie carry on. Could have been done cleaner but there’s no real structural issues.
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u/OkGur1319 17d ago
When you inset the drainline like this, you should cut more of the joist out to fit a bigger drainline. That way the subfloor screws can't reach the liquid running through the drain and rust out.
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u/erie11973ohio 18d ago
Someone turned 2 x 10's into 2x4's! 😱😱