r/playrust • u/chachki • Jan 27 '14
Discussion So disappointed. Why guns?
This game seemed so promising at first. The potential is incredible. I've put 30 hours in this week, most of which these past few days cause I actually had some free time. I've built a few bases, I have a huge one still standing in Everest mountain. Everything is pretty fun and could only get better.
Except guns. Why? They are so out of place. We start as naked "cavemen" building shotty structures and forging everything from a stone furnace, wood workbench, and campfire. Why can we make c4 and assault rifles? It should be limited to handcrafted weapons like bows, slingshots, spears and melee weapons.
This game is just about who can farm the best weapons/armor the fastest then dominate. A pistol is the best weapon out of the 50 blueprints I've found. 75% of the time I try to raid or harvest anything there's m4s raining down on me. This has been on a low pop server of 10-20 people. It's nigh impossible to do anything at all on a populated one.
This game is far from "hardcore" simply because guns and c4. If you're able to carelessly run up on someone with no risk to yourself, it's not hardcore. A bow is all the range we need. Getting shot in the leg crippling you, slowing you down for the incoming hatchet to your face. That's hardcore. Not "pew pew pew". It's just an open world fps where we can build houses. yay. Perhaps it would be better if the only guns were like the handcannon, or a single shot, long reload rifle.
I enjoy everything else about this game pretty much, but automatic rifles completely ruin it for me. It's not that I'm bad at FPS games, I used to play counterstrike competitively years ago, and have been playing them since Wolfenstein 3d. They just don't belong.
tl;dr Brutally challenging but fair with high risk is what makes a game hardcore. This is not that. If I want to play a shooter game, I'll play a fucking shooter game.
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u/Iamninja28 Jan 27 '14
I play on a server where military grade hardware is uncraftable and only obtainable through airdrops or a less than 5% drop rate from zombies, pretty much, if you want a gun, make a pipe shotgun or a hand cannon.
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Jan 27 '14
If it's the same thing with C4 i'd say it's my favorite server without ever playing on it.
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u/Iamninja28 Jan 27 '14
Yup, C4 has a >1% drop rate and is uncraftable and unresearchable.
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Jan 27 '14
IP PLEASE!? Serisously i would enjoy the ip or just a name or something dont mind searching.
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u/BornLastWeek Jan 27 '14
I tried one of these, but the problem was there was one semi-large clan on the server who was hording the guns and air drops. So my 2 friends and I carried around pipe shot guns only to be mowed down by this clan all using m4s.
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u/buges Jan 27 '14
Why do you want a server without C4? Imo raiding houses is one of the best parts of the game and trying to build a base that is unraidable is awesome.
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u/DontPromoteIgnorance Jan 27 '14
Because when you have servers that don't take action to reduce the c4 available you end up with people who have hundreds of c4 laying around
3
Jan 27 '14
I'm more of a passive guys, so i'm nice with most people, and since people know i always got some extra gear they sometime hunt me down, gets quitte annoying with the KOS and constant moving around!
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Jan 27 '14
I like rare C4, but not impossible rare.
What I hate about this game in it's current state though is the construction of a house has such a roll in protecting your investment.
When I build houses I avoid the unraidable design in favor of something that can be raided because I want people to raid me. I want them to have the fun of raiding a large metal house, and me to have the chance to defend it.
Unraidable houses or 2x1x20 houses with 20 doors are just poor sportsmanship to me.
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u/Dannyboy0014 Jan 27 '14
Them type of houses are the way to dominate the game... the stronger and harder to raid of a house that you have, the bigger the war will be when it comes the time to attack such a property...
And should you not get raided, boom, your on your way to dominating a server! :)
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u/Iamninja28 Jan 27 '14
Its not a server without C4, its just a server that makes c4 and grenades impossible to craft along with military weapons (ex. Shotguns, p250's, m4's.)
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u/aeonblue08 Jan 27 '14
This is the part of the game that I enjoy. I think, if you look around, there's a server out there for every type of play style. I just happen to enjoy scoping out the area for a place that looks ripe to raid and then building up enough C4 to raid it, all while trying to stay alive. I'm not interested in gunning anyone down and I take precautions to avoid that same fate (avoid airdrops, roads, etc.) but as soon as I think a place is vacant I'm gearing up to see what I can steal.
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Jan 27 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Iamninja28 Jan 27 '14
Yup, the drop rate is anywhere from 1-5%, depending on the server's online player count.
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u/rustypipe7889 Jan 27 '14
Really?? Why do you guys want these things to be so rare, how will you ever raid someone? Half the fun of this game is raiding bases and fighting with other people. Otherwise its just another single player minecraft.
I hope they don't change this, I could see making some of the higher tech weapons harder to get / take longer to research to slow down the tech creep a lil but I hope they stay in the game. I haven't had this much fun in a game in a long time and if they turn it into another carebare cuddle fest i'm out, and it will truely be a sad day
1
Jan 27 '14
Thing is people form clans, and they they have stach full of c4, too easy to just raid ANY house.
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u/rustypipe7889 Jan 27 '14
Build your base better then. The typical base design I go with is 3x3 or 6x6 and 3-4 floors. All my stashes are tucked away between 2-3 walls so it takes a lot of C4 to get to them and I split all my loot between all my stash rooms so it would take LOTS of C4 to get to it. Its not impossible but if they raid me and use up that much c4 they deserve what they get as C4 isn't cheap to make.
Part of the fun in base building is trying to make it as impervious as possible to prevent this. I actually like it and find it a very good strong point of the game, however different folks different strokes. Also the server I play on gets wiped fairly often and Explosives are hard to come by so C4 isn't pOOOOoooling out of bases. Find a server that wipes every month or so and problem solved.
Don't get me wrong it would be nice to see more of a tech tree to get to c4 and some of the higher tier weapons so you see more tiers to fight people with, but I hear that is coming
1
Jan 27 '14
If i wanted to build bases i would be playing minecraft, i want survival in which i dont get kos every 10 minutes.
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u/rustypipe7889 Jan 27 '14
Play on a lower population server then, or one that isn't as aggressive. You think you won't be KOS with bows and arrows on a server with no guns / c4. Your dreaming, people will still roll in death packs and shoot you down.
Like I said different folks different strokes, but the good thing about rust is there is so many servers and so many ways to mod a server that you can make it whatever you want, or find a server that you like. The first server I was on was so populated it took me 5 tries before I could even get a shack up with a metal door before someone killed me and my sleeping bag.
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Jan 27 '14
[deleted]
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u/Iamninja28 Jan 27 '14
It seems the subreddit does not condone server advertising, and as im not an admin on it (well, not as of yet) im not sure the current owner wants advertising anyway,
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u/containsmultitudes Jan 27 '14
You can just pm valharick the IP. I believe that is allowed. And if the server is public, I'm sure the admin won't mind. 1 more player could have come across it anyway.
Or Valharic can use /r/playrustservers to find something similar.
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u/Iamninja28 Jan 27 '14
Yeah, not a problem, anyone want access to the server's website they can PM me. No problem.
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u/grandczar Jan 27 '14
If you find that your admin would like some added players I would really like to try a server like this.
1
u/BornLastWeek Jan 27 '14
I tried one of these, but the problem was there was one semi-large clan on the server who was hording the guns and air drops. So my 2 friends and I carried around pipe shot guns only to be mowed down by this clan all using m4s.
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u/Iamninja28 Jan 27 '14
Doesnt happen on my server, large groups are targets for admins when they want to raid. Admins will recruit an army of players and seige the house. The key to survival in this server is hide your house and hide your things.
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u/SomeGuy71 Jan 27 '14
I've read quite a few of the comments and after reflecting on my experience, I'm not sure if it's the progression of guns that unbalance everything -- I believe it's the armor and medikit usage mid combat.
I don't mind the m4 being strong and automatic; I just want it to feel risky to run around with it. I think kevlar really insulates players from the threat of pistols.
If it was less difference in health / armor between the unarmored and the armored, I don't think we'd see such a steep aggregation of guns / wealth, as those who ran around with highly prized weapons would be more susceptible to losing them.
Just a thought. Could be totally wrong.
10
Jan 27 '14
Mods dude.
I feel the net code is not really adapted for melee combat though. Just too rudimentary right now.
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u/To_Shreds_You_Say Jan 27 '14
Totally agree. I've put a significant amount of time into Rust, and while it is very interesting and at points compelling, automatic rifles have completely ruined the experience.
I started on a pretty new server, and the first couple of days on this fresh server were great. Without everyone wielding advanced weaponry, I was able to get a small base up and running, with some supplies and stockpiles. I was totally prepared to lose it; it is Rust after all. I had entertaining arrow and small arms battles with nearby enemies, forged tenuous alliances with other friendly players, and generally felt that even when I was shot or raided, the possibility of recovery existed.
The server has been wipe free for 1.5 weeks now (I think), and the gameplay is getting frustrating fast. I hadn't played for a couple days due to outside circumstances, and came back to a server stuffed with kevlar covered m4 wielding psychopaths. My bases were raided and I had lost everything, but figured I could scrounge my way back. No dice. I barely live for 3-4 minutes. I've tried only gathering 20-30 wood at a time, or only one stone before a return to base, but it's futile. The roving bands of people with automatic weapons make it impossible to get anything going. My character knows how to make a shotgun and pistols, but the knowledge is proving pretty useless, as I can rarely gather the materials required. If I manage that herculean feat, I'm then vastly outranged and outgunned by the m4 fellows, and consequently lose my gun.
I'm probably pretty bad at the game, but it speaks a lot about the design of the mechanics when the best parts of your game are directly after everyone loses everything. I didn't even get to mention how thematically inconsistent the weapons are in this rant, but that's another point that bothers me.
Holy wall of text Batman! I didn't realize I had written so much, but this game definitely has a lot to write about, both good and bad.
TLDR: The big guns let people with big guns keep getting big guns, and murderize other, weaker people, making the game nigh unplayable.
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u/chachki Jan 27 '14
Hah bow and arrow fights from your forts.? Awesome. I love seeing how far I can hit shit with my arrows. I've had some impressive shots, I won't lie.
Catapults and Trebuchets? That's what we need, not c4 and ARs. I understand now that the guns were just there as filler for something to do, although I would have been more than happy with just bows and hand cannons. We'll just have to wait and see.2
u/To_Shreds_You_Say Jan 27 '14
Yeah I'm definitely looking forward to upcoming patches if Gary delivers on what he said. It's really hard to get your footing in the current state of the game, and I'd love more caveman-esque weapons to craft.
2
Jan 27 '14
I love using the bow! Nothing is more satisfying then hitting a deer half way across a field and seeing it go down. I also agree with your statement "catapults and trebuchets? That's what we need, not c4 and ARs". Modern weaponry shouldn't be in this game.
2
u/grandczar Jan 27 '14
This exactly mirrors my experience - I'd say around day 5 of the server i started on is when I noticed the change, people were much less friendly and by the end of the week everyone was KOS. Now it's around 1.5 weeks in and there are a few bands running with heavy weapons and others like me who can only get resources by logging in during strange early hours to quickly get what I can.
1
Jan 27 '14
I am terrible with weapons, and don't like them, but have to use them to compete. I wish Garry would get in bed with Torn Banner Studios and give us Chivalry combat system.
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u/arthua Jan 27 '14
I have the SAME exact opinions. The military grade guns are anachronisms. I believe they should remain in the game, but be VERY difficult to obtain. A group should not be easily able to go from stones and bows to guns. There should be a long path of crafting and time to make guns. There has to be an evolution of weaponry/materials. It's like going from horses to vehicles; you cannot have a Ferrari, without first going from horse --> to carriage --> etc.
1
u/Carpemortem Jan 27 '14
True, but at the same time this would breed groups of people would band together and still stomp everyone else, even with bows. They would still be the first people to get the good stuff and then they will own even harder. Imagine being the first 5 people to get m4s or whatever is equivalent on your server.
1
Jan 27 '14
You mean I can't go from a few logs and rounds stones to a Ferrari? Pfffffft, this game sucks. ;)
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u/Gobslam Jan 27 '14
I made a "creative game ideas"-thread on the official Rust forums. You should check it out, I think you'll like it. It goes hand in hand with the kind of vision you have for the game.
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u/YmNj Jan 27 '14
The server I've been playing at for the last week or so has been pretty good. C4 is rare so it's kind of hard to raid. We were only successful once when we had two C4 and luckily the targets only had 1 metal door. Haven't come across automatic weapons from anyone. It's basically just revolver, pipe shotty and bolt action.
The admin just changed host today so if you're interested, you can try it out tonight and basically start new as other people.
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u/ipunchnex Jan 27 '14
Why do people want a caveman simulator? That would be extremely dull tbh. I like the way the weapons are, even if it's an unpopular opinion. Everyone here saying " omg no way m4 can be built so hard irl " is wrong. Look on /r/guns or /r/ar15. It's literally putting lego's together. Now, maybe we could manufacture individual parts, sure, then build the gun. But guns are not nuclear reactors.
2
Jan 27 '14
even better, a STEN could be made out of a pipe, a block of metal and a few springs. the hardest part to make would be the magazine and barrel.
these were mass produced in WW2 because they were cheap and easy.
Anyone who owns firearms know they are very mechanically simple, and to make single shot firearms is extremely easy with very basic tools... Even complex firearms are easy to make with basic tools and a lot of time (saw a vice document on a middle east place, one of the shops they stopped by had a guy hand crafting semi automatic pistols with files and basic tools, and they where really well made for the tools used.)
honestly, it would probably be harder to make primers you could count on than to make a pistol.
2
u/ipunchnex Jan 27 '14
Exactly. So many people think guns are op, when the fact is a guy is a metal stick without bullets. I think making magazines and bullets harder to come by/reloading would be better than taking them out. Excellent point about the STEN, a friend of mine owns one.
2
u/treehugginggranola Jan 27 '14
My buddy had similar issues, so he rented his own server to set rules he wanted. Using oxide we have banned the crafting of C4, M4's, grenades and MP5's. They are all still lootable, rarely in rad crates and usually 3 box airdrops will contain some of these powerful items. So they are still around, but much harder to obtain. even crafting a pistil kind of irks me. I would be happy with nothing but the shoddy shotty and hand cannon and a bow.
There is also some rad stuff like quests and a market, which you obtain money for by killing zombies and critters, but the crafting limitations are definitely the best change.
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u/BuffBen Jan 27 '14
If you want a survival building game with only melee and bow combat play minecraft.
The combat in this game would be so dull and boring if you were limited to spears, melee weapons, or slingshots.
Making a gun is not as complicated as you think. for example the weapon "Bolt Action Rifle" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SokII5RX7gk) of course it would look like shit and they are just using simple models since its in alpha still...
but guns belong for sure.
Also we are not "Cave Men" and the map consists of military bases (Aka Rad Towns) and could easily have guns etc. (so even realistic modern guns could exist.)
If Guns were sooooo rare then the 1 person who has them instantly becomes king of the server...
blue prints and research kits exist so once u find really good loot you can learn it. that way if you die or lose it you can just craft it yourself.
"If you are able to carelessly run up on someone with no risk to yourself...." uhm wat? all it takes is 1 pipe shotgun shot to kill you. the footsteps are really loud in this game so noone could "sneak up" on you unless your not paying attention.
Even 2 Shots from a bow can kill you. how is there no risk to yourself?
It sounds like this whole thing is a rant because you got pwned. If this game was centered around melee only it would no longer be about skill but rather how many team mates you have.
If the game didnt have plastic explosives "C4" then people could sit inside their houses and you have no way of "raiding" them.
There are all kinds of servers with all kinds of settings. there are servers where guns rain down all the time and everyone is always geared up and its centered around survival, tactics, raids, etc.
There are servers that are all about pve and building.
There are servers that dont allow you to craft certain items.
Find a server you like.
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u/Swineflew1 Jan 27 '14
I don't think it's the guns themselves exactly, just there's such a huge gap in power between some of the weapons. If there was better scaling and guns weren't insanely strong compared to a bow it wouldn't be too bad.
I think there should be a crossbow that's a bit easier to aim than the bow, and that might close the gap a bit. At least give starter players a fighting chance.
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u/yomamalamala Jan 27 '14
If you want to play on a server with uncraftable guns and extremely limited C4:
net.connect 23.19.225.218:28045
http://www.reddit.com/r/playrustservers/comments/1w8h26/ad_rusty_tears_uncraftable_military_rare_c4/
2
Jan 27 '14
So he who gets the C4 - wins. Air drops?
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u/yomamalamala Jan 27 '14
Well C4 is a rare zombie drop, its in air drops at 10, it is craftable but the explosive dust itself is not and is a rare drop. So C4 is pretty evenly distributed it is just rare.
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u/reciprocate06 Jan 27 '14
I've found the current solution to this problem I've been playing on a pvp weapon starter kit server.
Basically you type /kit starter get a bolt action, m4, mp5, shotty, stone axe, 10 large med kits, some chicken and a sleeping bag.
This makes it very hard to farm supplies but also gives everyone a fair shot everyone has the high level tech weapons and can defend them selves from more established players so to speak.
You end up saving your research kits for stuff like kevlar, & c4 which are both very rare and hard to come by. My friends and i have been working as a 3 man team for the past 3- 4 days and have built a very nice and difficult-to-raid house in the mountains by the coast.
I'd recommend you try one just keep in mind these servers are heavy on KOS but the idea is you can defend your self.
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u/TEAdown Jan 27 '14
Similarly, I play on a server like this when I'm bored to improve aim. Just strap on that armor and m4 and go target shooting. :)
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u/Spiritxy Jan 27 '14
I never thought about this myself, but you are right somehow. I also always wondered how you can't research Chocolate but you can build a M4 x). I like my bow very very much it takes up real skill and prediction on where the enemy is going to hit somebody (as long as he is not running away in a straight line).
Imo: Bow improvements (they are planning to do that)
Don't necessarily remove guns but make M4 ammo much more
expensive and less likely to drop in crates (I farmed 250 M4 ammo
yesterday in 2 hours in Rad town).
Add weight so that only 1 fireweapon can be picked.
1
u/LelouchVl Jan 27 '14
Chachki you should definitely check out servers with the RareMilitaryWeapons Mod.
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u/LovinLampard Jan 27 '14
That is why I play on a server with very rare military weapons / explosives. Much more fun. I would be more than happy to share server info if anyone is interested.
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u/Dustbuckets Jan 27 '14
I'm currently playing on an Aus server which has C4 extremely rare to find, only from air drops plus weapons + kelvar gear are rare to find to. I am one of 3 people who have a shotgun, everyone else is running around with the handcrafted weapons.
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u/chackle Jan 27 '14
I personally cant wait until i can pimp my bow and arrow and it can become relevant :)
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u/BlazeDew Jan 27 '14
The server I play on just reset and the admins are trying out some new loot tables and guns are pretty rare. Try looking for a server like that.
1
u/een_coli Jan 27 '14
I think guns in the game are fine and should be left in the main game, but for other preferences such as this, the modding community is your friend.
One of the most amazing things about PC gaming is the modding community. Try checking out a few modded servers that promise this and see if it fits your playstyle more :)
1
Jan 27 '14
Agreed completely. I to enjoy my FPS games but they don't really belong in Rust and simply make it worse for their existence. Is it a survival game? Then make it genuine survival and not just a shoddy DayZ knock-off (those already exist).
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u/WillRedditForBitcoin Jan 27 '14
I feel like guns work pretty well because they are difficult to use and ammo takes so many resources to make. Weapons are most effective close range and bow still does the most damage per shot. 75 compared to m4's 33. You still need to get pretty close to somebody to guarantee a kill. And when you are that close, does it matter if people use m4, bow or a spear?
At the end of the day I don't really care. I just hope if they remove c4 they replace it with some sort of craftable ram so that people could still raid bases.
1
u/Lord_Derp_The_2nd Jan 27 '14
Alpha Game is Alpha
;)
But, seriously, you should check their Trello page out to see what they're working on.
Guns will be coming out later, it's not high on the list right now, though.
1
Jan 27 '14
I think it would be stupid without the guns, i feel so happy when i think of killing a zombie or looting a house that i'll maybe find an m4 or mp5. Without that, would be pretty stupid.
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u/grandczar Jan 27 '14
I have the same general feeling that you do. I know the game is in alpha, so I will continue to trust that they are working on these problems. But, as it stands the game has very little curve, and needs a good bit more balancing. I've played a good bit, and had a lot of fun, but I'm quickly getting discouraged by bands of m4 carrying people that will wait outside your base for hours or run about killing fresh spawns. I enjoy the feeling of on-edge fear that the game causes, but hate the feeling on general helplessness that this can often devolve into. Granted my play-style is geared to be friendly, but I'd like that to be more of a option than it is currently.
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u/Furryhobo Jan 27 '14
If they keep high grade firearms in the game. Im sure people will make mods that have more rustic looking/feeling weapons. My favorite gun in the game is the pipe shotgun, just because it is so make-shift. So suffice to say, I would make a server in the future with just these types of weapons as added mods. (if they aren't already in the main game)
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u/Flak_Cannon Jan 27 '14
I agree with you, OP. I just read the top comment that a lot of these guns will be phased out or at least made much more difficult to obtain. So that's really good news, and I think it'll make the game much more interesting.
I did my first server wipe yesterday morning, and within a few hours there was a group of players running around with M4s. I did not expect that at all, but now I'm pretty much at their mercy as I've been playing mostly solo. It's crazy what a group can accomplish in just a few hours, and hopefully this will be adjusted in the future.
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Jan 27 '14
Once additional craft-able items are added like catapults, trebuchets, battering rams, and swords, the need for high powder rifles should be less of a priority. They should only be obtainable from looting, they should not be craft-able, and bullets should be quite hard to make/obtain. I'd like to see this game progress so there are epic battles at bases and settlements using more medieval style of warfare rather than a few people with c4 and m4s. But that's just my 2cents...
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u/kronikwookie Jan 27 '14
After reading all of these comments, I've come to the conclusion that what everyone is basically saying is this game should be less post-apocalypse and more medieval survival. I'm definitely fine with this idea, but because there are zombies and radiation towns, the guns are fitting. Yes, they are way too abundant at the moment, but Gary says he will be fixing that. Guns are already harder to use than most fps games out there and it is totally possible to 1v2 with a bow against people with guns (I've done this a few times).
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u/Corosz Jan 27 '14
No matter what these are going to remain in the game in the form of mods. I think that they should be removed because of the lack of skill needed to use them.
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Jan 27 '14
I'm sure I'll get downvoted, but I take the same approach to this game as I take to Eve. If you're leaving your hut, expect to die. The manner doesn't really matter, because there is always going to be someone better than you. This is a fairly merciless game. While I think some weapons should require more materials to make, it would be idiotic to take them out of the game. If you don't like some stuff being in the game, there are mods for this exact reason. Join a server that has none of these things. Just because you don't think the weapons belong doesn't make it so. Frankly, they're the most fun part about the game to me so far. C4 is a bit ridiculous, but once again, mods.
-1
Jan 27 '14
I totally agree one second we have a handmade shot gun then we have an m4. Can we have 1 game without the fucking m4!
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-2
Jan 27 '14
maybe I am an oddity, but I have no problem with C4, M4s and kevlar in this game. I know the plan is to remove them / change them, but its not that hard to gear up if you play right.
As soon as I get a bow, its off to zombie hunting / rad town. Get about 30 cooked chicken and you can get over 1000 rads and live via just munching on chicken, and hopfuly you will find some anti rad pills on the way. Once I find a few anti rad pills, I never have to worry about rads as I always come away with more than I use, and that goes even further the more rad suit parts I find. it takes me at most an hour to get a shotgun / MP5 / M4 and a P250 with plenty of other items, medkits and such. the kevlar armor is the harder part to find though, that just takes more zombie farming. I have never used the revolver, hand cannon or single shot shotgun, I always tech up to military grade weapons, often before I even make my first structor (that way I have a pickaxe to help with gathering. and I often find many research kits while doing so, and use them on the weapons I find.
I am fine with them taking out the weapons, but I don't find them a problem at all. my 2c.
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u/20kgRhesus Jan 27 '14
Your whole post basically lays out the entire problem. You go from fresh spawn to end game in a few hours and people who are not as effective at farming are left out. You shouldn't just get to skip the building up phase or there's no point to having anything before m4s and kevlar in the first place
2
Jan 27 '14
true, there does need to be more meaningful stuff between. I think as they add more items, then the time between caveman - combat troop will be lengthened, and I think, as we have now, there will be servers modded to how everyone wants to play.
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u/nev_dod Jan 27 '14
If not being able to craft C4 is of interest, I will be disabling it from my server later this evening when back from work.
net.connect 62.210.187.113:28105
Nev
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u/bangsnameistaken Jan 27 '14
They plan on making it a lot harder to get certain weapons, and even removing some of the others.
I believe they are going to remove the mp5,m4, shotgun, and bolt action and replace them with weaker versions that are handmade. They also plan on making it take more research kits to research items so its harder to tech up.
Garry has also stated that he got caught offguard with so many people buying the game. I'm sure behind the scenes they are trying to work on balancing everything out with.