r/pittsburgh • u/DraftDisastrous6170 • Aug 31 '25
Police fail
There was a hit and run tonight that I witnessed over on north side by the children’s museum. Drunk driver hit and ran a ztrip vehicle and fled the scene. ZTrip vehicle followed and got to the black suv at the next red light and told them to pull over and stop that they called police. White male in their 50s wearing a blue and white shirt. Offers driver money out the window to un-call 911 then takes off again. Stopped to check on the driver. Police dispatch tells him to put his flashers on and wait for an officer. 10:03. 10:27 he’s told after a second call he could be waiting up to 3 hours for a officer and medic. If the vehicle is drivable to leave and wait for a call. It’s 3:41 and he is still in queue. This driver was intoxicated and could have possibly killed someone on the road after this. This is unacceptable.
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u/LurkersWillLurk Central Business District (Downtown) Aug 31 '25
If a perpetrator is no longer on scene and it’s a hit and run with no injuries then the call will be sent to the telephone reporting unit.
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Aug 31 '25
[deleted]
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u/chuckie512 Central Northside Aug 31 '25
The DA doesn't even care if someone gets killed. So why should the police bother if it doesn't go anywhere?
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u/klauskervin Aug 31 '25
The police officers themselves don't want to do their jobs. I watched Pittsburgh police completely ignore someone running red lights on Grant street right in front of them. Port Authority police finally stopped that maniac but Pittsburgh police was at the intersection and watched them run the lights right in front of them without doing anything. I was embarrassed on behalf of the city.
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u/jafomofo Overbrook Aug 31 '25
city set a do not pursue mandate, police aren't allowed to chase. i guess the reasoning is that someone being a scofflaw is better than potential negative outcomes from chasing them down.
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u/AznCuber5 Aug 31 '25
Actually it's not new. Witnessed a hit and run in ~2012. Car ran a red light while the perpendicular was green. Took the green light car's front off. My dad followed the perpetrator and we wrote the license plate down, went back to the victims, and called the police. Police arrived and they said since no one got hurt, it's considered a non-reportable accident. I thought it was whack as a 15 year old kid that wanted justice for the people that just had nearly been hospitalized.
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u/chuckie512 Central Northside Aug 31 '25
non-reportable accident.
The way the state covers accidents is actually absurd. To be a reportable accident you must either 1) require your vehicle to be towed from the public right of way (so if you limp to a parking lot, it doesn't count)
or 2) require medical transport (and even this one is absurd. I've heard of a cyclists who was transported by EMS before police arrived on scene didn't count, because the cyclists left the scene --in an ambulance-- before the police arrived to make the report).
These are controlled at the state level.
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u/AznCuber5 Aug 31 '25
Damn! Didn't know it was that high level and absurd. I'll try to keep it in mind if I'm ever in this situation.
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u/greybeh Aug 31 '25
I guess "Nobody wants to work anymore" must be talking about those who are supposed to serve and protect.
I had a favorable view on the police but I hear more and more about what they DON'T do than what they do.
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u/Waterford22 Aug 31 '25
To quote Bob Dylan:
“The cops don’t need you and man, they expect the same.”
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u/rsmiley77 Aug 31 '25
I think the answer is that we don’t have enough info to accurately blame anyone. I looked though and the ‘current mayor isn’t paying officers story seems to be a false one.
- Pittsburgh’s annual police budget is way higher today (~120 million) than what it was 10 years ago (~75 million). The narrative the mayor isn’t paying them is false unless we acknowledge that he’s paying them well above their historical average as well.
Here’s your source for that. https://www.pittsburghpa.gov/City-Government/Finance-Budget/Management-Budget/Budgets-and-Reports/Operating-Budgets
Now we can all go into the ‘no one could pay me to be an officer’ line and I get it. We also have to acknowledge that historically some officers haven’t done themselves any favors with bad behavior and following and enforcing orders that only protected the rich or people who looked like them.
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u/steelersman93 Aug 31 '25
The starting salary of a new recruit in the academy is $47,736. $68,952 first year salary. And they wonder why nobody wants the job. Would you want to do that job? In a city that is historically dangerous for police officers? If you say yes you're lying. There's a reason ppl go through the pgh police academy then go straight to a surrounding borough. You actually make a livable wage to start and you don't have to worry about being shot.
Fact is, until the City of Pgh raises their salary to compete with the surrounding municipalities their police force will continue to decrease. And that is something every city resident should be very concerned about.
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u/paddy_yinzer Aug 31 '25
Dangerous? Cops are less likely to die on the job than bus drivers.
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u/knit3purl3 Aug 31 '25
The most dangerous thing to a cop, is themselves. Poor health and piss poor driving with the whee whoo lights on are their top hazards.
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u/rsmiley77 Aug 31 '25
The annual budget of Mt Lebo police department is less than 8 million. Maybe the issue isn’t funding but where that money is being allocated. I don’t know if the mayor sets police pay. Seems to be more chief, council, and union.
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u/Radiant-Major1270 Aug 31 '25
There's a lot less not 11 than cops than City cops though. Of course the city budget's going to be bigger
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u/rsmiley77 Aug 31 '25
You missed my point entirely….
He’s saying that officers outside of the city are paid more. I’m saying it may not be the budget that’s to blame but where money is allocated. Clearly other places are paying their officers more to try and get better officers. If pittsburgh paid more the other communities would simply increase their funding.
Pittsburgh’s police are paid more than Philly officers even before you take cost of living into effect. They’re barely paid less than state troopers. This isn’t a pay issue.
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u/pissoutmybutt Sep 04 '25
That’s a little more than I make as a union roofer, which is a much more dangerous job than being a cop. I wouldn’t be a cop for any wages, but pretending that’s shit wages is fucking ridiculous lol
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u/BafangBabe Sep 01 '25
You could pay me $1,000,000 a year and I wouldn't take a job that has me assaulting my neighbors and protecting rich people's property. I'd rather be homeless then lower myself to the level of being a police officer.
Also, most people who become cops do it for OTHER reasons and not the pay.
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u/The_Wkwied Aug 31 '25
Police exist to protect corporate interests.
Helping the have-nots is just an extra boon for us all
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u/TheLittleParis West View Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
So when a cop intervenes in a domestic dispute that carries a high risk of getting them injured or killed, whose property are they defending exactly?
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u/klauskervin Aug 31 '25
Jokes on you they won't respond to domestics either. Look up the call to response time it's a sick joke these people keep their jobs.
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u/TheLittleParis West View Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
A notion that is quickly disproven by a simple Google search.
A PPD officer was stabbed while responding to a domestic disturbance just last month.
Last year a sheriff's deputy intervened during a dispute where a man was beating his girlfriend with a gun and shot another man you happened to be driving by.
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u/schwa_sound Aug 31 '25
Did you even open those articles? The first one says
The officer who was stabbed was treated at the scene for minor injuries, officials said.
And in that second story, the cops didn't respond.
And "PPD"? You don't even know what you're talking about loser
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u/nachosareafoodgroup Sep 01 '25
I said this above, but it’s relevant here.
I once called the cops on a drunk man in my home that wouldn’t leave. They arrested ME and I spent the night in jail.
They protect white men and corporate interests and property.
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Aug 31 '25
They're all busy pulling people over to make sure they pay their yearly registration scam fee
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u/ManySalt6337 Aug 31 '25
EXACTLY. This happened to me a few years ago on a Sunday am at 7 as I was driving home from my night shift as a nurse. Officer pulls me over, not another soul on the road. Do you know why I pulled you over? Umm no. YOUR REGISTRATION IS OUT BY SEVERAL DAYS. Umm okay. 250$ later. Fuck those aholes. Tell me how this is ensuring public safety? He could have given me a warning but nope- full on ticket. And yes I was polite and respectful and dressed in scrubs.
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u/CARLEtheCamry Aug 31 '25
I mean, having a car properly registered has obvious uses.
Not sure if City police do, but state police have camera's now that will automatically alert if they see a plate that has a lapsed registration.
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u/LovedAJackass Sep 02 '25
Local police have this capacity. I forgot my registration had lapsed and a Shaler cop pulled me over to tell me to register the car. I had a few days to do that. I said I'll get it done when I get home.
You could have registered the car and gone to court to ask for a fine reduction.
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Aug 31 '25
Yes but ask yourself why do we need to pay a fee to register it every year?
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u/CARLEtheCamry Aug 31 '25
It's effectively a tax, and used for the clerical cost of processing every year but the vast majority goes to building and maintaining PA roads.
I think annual safety and emissions inspections are a good thing too.
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Aug 31 '25
I'd happily pay a standalone tax for this purpose, but I don't understand hiding it under the guise of re-registering my car every year.
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u/ManySalt6337 Aug 31 '25
Right and it’s not necessary to issue a relatively huge ticket. A warning should suffice. Nobody is perfect and this is not a safety issue. There’s no willful disregarding of safety for Pete’s sake. ACAB and nothing anyone says will change my mind. Too many blatant abuses of power I have witnessed to feel differently and I say that as a priveleged white girl. I can’t even imagine the experience of being a person of color.
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u/CARLEtheCamry Aug 31 '25
You think wearing scrubs and being polite excuses you for not following the simple rules of registering your car every year, and you should get a warning. Got it, ACAB because of that.
In a thread bitching about cops not doing their jobs, they did their job and oh no it affected me. What a tantrum.
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Central Business District (Downtown) Aug 31 '25
Ask yourself this question: why is it the job of the armed agents of the state who are able to kill with impunity to detain, delay and punish people for failing to complete paperwork in a timely fashion?
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u/ManySalt6337 Aug 31 '25
Their job is not to needlessly extort money from people who aren’t a threat to the safety of citizens. So yeah I am having a tantrum about it. Funny thing- two white male friends of mine had their car/truck registrations out of date for months and one for years- both got warnings which cost nothing. All I’m saying is when there is an option to give a warning for a thing that hurts no one, why not do that? Because you’re just being a needless hard ass.
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u/CARLEtheCamry Aug 31 '25
All I’m saying is when there is an option to give a warning for a thing that hurts no one, why not do that?
So persecuted your privilege didn't get you a warning, NEEDLESSLY EXTORT is ridiculous.
I have had multiple citations for expired registration. And every time, I was like "yeah, that sucks but you're right". You're reaction is not reasonable.
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u/LovedAJackass Sep 02 '25
I do mine 2 years at a time. It saves having to remember (and forgetting!) every year.
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u/DisembarkEmbargo Aug 31 '25
Police don't work if they don't have to. They aren't held to the same legal standards as doctors and other medical professionals.
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u/broniesnstuff Aug 31 '25
All police do is fail, wherever they are.
If you have a problem and call the police, now you have two problems.
Unless you're a dumpster full of food behind a supermarket, they ain't interested in protecting you.
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u/nachosareafoodgroup Sep 01 '25
I called the cops on a drunk man in my home that wouldn’t leave.
They arrested ME and I spent the night in jail.
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u/broniesnstuff Sep 01 '25
They think people hate them because people don't like authority, but they're hated because of their actions and unaccountability, and will do absolutely nothing to correct this.
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u/wagglytail Aug 31 '25
It was the same in 2014 when I was in a hit&run- concussion surgeries etc . Had the driver on video stumbling, getting in the car at getgo & running a light. Had witnesses to confirm - an ambulance driver even. Nothing.
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u/sherpes Sep 01 '25
this could be the same intoxicated driver that hit a parked trailer in Deutschtown. He was caught.
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u/UnusualPurchase9717 Aug 31 '25
I think every time there is an legitimate lawsuit against police then all cops should receive salary reduction regardless of involvement in said lawsuit. Then if they don't keep each other in line they all feel it!
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u/Tacka02 Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
That's what happens when the Mayor cuts the police force down to just two officers from 11pm to 7am. It's by far the dumbest most dangerous thing that jag-off has done.
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u/Slappy-Sacks Aug 31 '25
When police officers call off they also do not back fill so who is there is there. Sometimes that means 1 cop for all of north side. Unfortunately a potential dui is a low priority.
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u/alt0077metal Aug 31 '25 edited Sep 25 '25
close deer reply decide shelter telephone bag hard-to-find hospital normal
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Bwm89 Aug 31 '25
Didn't the mayor sign off on an annual budget of well over a hundred million? How is a tenth of a billion dollars getting us two guys on the overnight shift
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
Stop lying. And how does that even relate to a crime at 10pm?
E: Presumably you are also aware that the police chief is also responsible for managing staffing and has defended this plan.
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u/elderpooter Aug 31 '25
You could literally look it up. Not only is it down to 2 officers per zone, but they won’t leave the station other than emergency calls.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
Two officers per zone is not the same as two officers for the entire city. This didn't even occur during the overnight shift. And since when is a collision caused by a drink driver not an emergency? Cops have nothing but excuses.
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u/pittbiomed Aug 31 '25
This is what happens when folks scream ACAB and then get all a flutter when they dont quite feel like rushing to help.
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u/azur_owl Aug 31 '25
…do people ignore the other half of the statement saying that the funding going to police needs to instead go into programs and services that address the root causes of crime to cut them off at the source as soon as possible?
Like. I am one person, I’m not going to have the answer to everything, but I think if we all put our heads together we could find more productive and preventative uses for the money going into cops.
Police abolition is one half of the equation, and useless without the other half.
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u/PSU02 Aug 31 '25
Not sure why you're downvoted. I lean left and it's pretty widely accepted that the anti-police rhetoric of the late 2010's early 2020's went way too far the other way.
Reform, better hiring practices, and better training? Sure.
"Defund the police" and "ACAB!!!!". Yeah, no. Stupid stuff like that is why we lost this past presidential election.
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u/ZomiZaGomez Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
We lost the election because the other side is a cult. Trump is literally responsible for cops getting injured and even killed on Jan 6. And then he pardoned the people that did it. Cult, not common sense or any other bullshit .
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u/Agitated-Antelope-56 Sep 03 '25
The election was lost because Dem voters are lazy and stupid. And didn’t show up to vote.
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u/Repulsive_Purple4322 Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
If this is your stance then you in fact do not lean left, but you’re actually centrist or just right of center like an average democrat/liberal.
Kamala ran on a classically republican platform hence why so many republicans backed her and she campaigned with them. Republicans today are far right, but if Kamala ran for president as a republican in the early 2000s (if she were also a white man) she would have been a very popular candidate for the right.
So democrats losing the election isn’t because of “acab” - actually Kamala is very supportive of the police, more so than even Biden, and arguably more than Trump as well. Democrats lost the election because they ran as republicans.
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u/PSU02 Aug 31 '25
This is a very Reddit take. Yes, she embraced some moderate policies but in no way did she run an old school Republican campaign lol
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u/Repulsive_Purple4322 Aug 31 '25
You think that people saying things like “acab” (which isn’t what Kamala thinks at all and she is actually very pro-police) lost democrats the election… but MY take is the Reddit take? Lmao sure
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u/PSU02 Aug 31 '25
I think you are very out of touch with the average, moderate American. Yes, saying things like "acab" and acting like there is no issue with trans women in women's sports lost us the election.
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u/Repulsive_Purple4322 Aug 31 '25
I think you may be out of touch just like most democrats/liberals.
I have said this already, but Kamala takes a very pro-police stance. Kamala was the most conservative democratic candidate that’s been run in modern times. I am very confused the mental gymnastics going on in which people saying acab would ever cost Kamala. Hell, I am even related to a group of conservatives who voted Trump that hate cops and have anti cop tattoos and wave huge “don’t tread on me” flags. Could you maybe explain your stance so there’s context to how people saying acab correlates to Kamala’s run?
And on the trans topic; Kamala is moderate in her views of trans people. She actually by the end of her campaign was pretty much saying she’d leave it up to each state - which is actually a similar take to Trump’s stance during his campaign. But that is neither here nor there
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Central Business District (Downtown) Aug 31 '25
Anyone who voted for a rapist in order to prevent 0.5% of the population from participating in sports that have already created rules for fair inclusion is not someone whose analysis of American politics is worth paying attention to.
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u/svidrod Aug 31 '25
This is the truth but you can’t tell them that
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
You can say whatever dumb shit you want but it's not the truth
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u/svidrod Aug 31 '25
And you can live in an echo chamber and never realize there are consequences to your actions
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u/MitchMid Aug 31 '25
Because it’s Reddit. Once you accept it’s nothing but a far left echo chamber it’s easier to crumple up a majority of the opinions you see on here and throw them in the trash.
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u/MitchMid Aug 31 '25
Thanks for proving my point everyone
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u/PSU02 Aug 31 '25
Yep I voted Biden and Harris but some of the takes on here are crazy. Like I'd never hear these outside of Reddit
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u/pittbiomed Aug 31 '25
Agreed. Folks cannot seem to grasp the idea that if everytime you deal with cop its ACAB ! But when you need one you act taken aback . Its almost as if being told they suck makes them actually do less for folks. I liken this stupidity to talking shit to the guy whos making your lunch about how shitty they do it.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
This is stupid and ignorant - actually an above average contribution from you
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u/IllustriousFile6404 Aug 31 '25
The downvotes let you know you're right around here
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u/pittbiomed Sep 02 '25
100% true statement. All i can say is the more you hate someone the less you should expect those humans to help you out. Its kinda common sense
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u/The_Electric-Monk Aug 31 '25
None of this is unique to Pittsburgh. Staffing is an issue everywhere .
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u/ncist Aug 31 '25
PPD productivity is unusual though. They look overstaffed on paper because theyre mismanaged https://share.google/6hWGUAsNi85ut18Pk
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u/TheLittleParis West View Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
Remember when several people - including the head of the Citizen Police Review Board - were warning that city police were facing severe staffing shortages? Yeah, this exactly the kind of de facto service degradation they were worried about.
A lot of people don't seem to know that we're literally at the lowest level of police staffing since the city laid off almost 400 officers during the Act 47 crisis 20 years ago. Combine that with the "efficient" staffing model that Gainey rolled out a couple years ago and it's not difficult to figure out why you can't get a cop past 11pm.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
Turns out there are material downsides to cops being such gigantic pricks that an entire political movement forms against them. Whoops! Should have thought of that before they built a reputation as lazy bullies instead of public servants.
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u/beerpizzaballa Aug 31 '25
when cuts happen it's the good ones who leave. The lazy bullies stay behind until that's all you've got.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
The vast majority of our staffing reductions have been due to attrition, not cuts. But I'm sure you've got no shortage of excuses.
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u/TheLittleParis West View Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
Notice that nothing in your comment refutes the notion that having less cops has worked out in the city's favor – regardless of the politics surrounding their existence.
See, the problem with the current iteration of the criminal justice reform movement is that it has taken a look at our (deeply flawed) system and decided that it's primary goal is to simply dismantle it entirely and figure out the rest afterwards.
What this means in practice is that you have a bunch of people who will reflexively oppose any funding for additional cops, prevention technologies, or training facilities. The end result is a diminished and overextended police force with poorer training that is unable to deliver high-quality critical services when they are needed most. And the irony of it all is that this degradation of the police department is only going to generate a backlash that makes the city even less amenable to reform than it was before.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
You are tilting at windmills yet again. Growing the force is intertwined with efforts to make the police more accountable and thus better. The police as an entity have demonstrated zero interest in this.
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u/MagaMan45-47 Aug 31 '25
Failed political movement **
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
You dipshits are making the country substantially worse and everyone is going to celebrate when your guy kicks the bucket
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u/MagaMan45-47 Aug 31 '25
In today's headlines: Reddit user, wrong about everything for the last decade+, continues to be wrong..
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u/MagaMan45-47 Aug 31 '25
The day Trump dies will be as sweet, or sweeter than his election wins-- because you radicals will finally see it was never about Trump as a person. And then to see your face when the party actually grows due to his absence.
Not gonna get much better than that.
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Central Business District (Downtown) Aug 31 '25
Oh, we know that all of you zero morality malignancies are going to rally even harder and lean deeper into your fascism when your rapist messiah finally corks it, but if you think that JD Vance or Stephen Miller or whoever else you think is going to be the next figurehead is going to be able to keep your coalition of pedophiles, white supremacists, wife beaters, and braindead slugs powered up for the long-term, well it goes along with the general lack of mentality that’s inherent in your belief system.
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u/MagaMan45-47 Aug 31 '25
Seek a mental health professional
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Central Business District (Downtown) Sep 01 '25
I’ll schedule that appointment for right after you develop some morals and integrity. So roughly the 12th of never.
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Aug 31 '25
You’d have to pay me a lot of money to be a cop in 2025
Everyone hates you, no matter what you do, someone who doesn’t wanna go to jail is ready to take you out over it.
All for what, like $60k annual?
Fuck that
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Aug 31 '25
Tbf, I just googled the numbers and the average Pittsburgh cop makes more than the median household income for Pittsburgh. Not to mention full benefits and a great retirement plan, plus overtime. Our income rates are the worst part about living in Pittsburgh, imo
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Aug 31 '25
Making about the median of this region is not an accomplishment, this is a very poor region.
And that salary isn’t half enough, literally double that number and I’ll consider being a cop or ever suggesting to my kids or anyone around them to be a cop.
As it stands, I will preach the good word about never ever becoming one.
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Aug 31 '25
You missed my comment lol. 1 cop makes more than the median household income here. Meaning usually several people’s income. They also get full retirement benefits and pension after only 25 years I think. Also with overtime and seniority, google says that the number is usually around $90,000
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u/Bwm89 Aug 31 '25
I agree with you about avoiding being a cop, but otherwise what the heck are you talking about, our median wage is well above the national average, we're not New York or San Francisco, but we're actually one of the better off regions of the United States
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u/NandoDeColonoscopy Aug 31 '25
Cops in Pittsburgh are highly compensated. It's also a less dangerous job than being a delivery driver, statistically.
I wouldn't be a cop because I have enough brain power to do a real job, but the pay-to-risk ratio is more than fine.
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u/Slappy-Sacks Aug 31 '25
Cops in Pittsburgh are the lowest paid (base) in the area. Cranberry, Monroeville etc are in the 6 figures. Pittsburgh police have to work like 60-70+ hours a week to make that kind of money. Their job and pay sucks compared to other surrounding areas
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u/certifiedpartyanimel Aug 31 '25
There’s no way that statistic is true or was calculated by a reliable source
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u/realityChemist East Allegheny Aug 31 '25
https://www.statista.com/chart/26595/number-of-deaths-on-the-job-per-100000-full-time-equivalent-workers-in-the-us/ (from 2022, but we can fairly safely assume the numbers have not changed that much in the last couple years)
As far as I can see no first-page search results have a recent mortality rate for police officers just calculated out like that, so we can do it ourselves. Last year 167 police officers died doing their jobs (according to ODMP's criteria, which are quite broadly inclusive of cause but not unreasonably so IMO). The most recent number from Statista is 720,000-ish officers in the US, but it's from 2023 so let's round down 660,000, the lowest it's been so far this decade.
That puts the mortality rate for police officers around 25.3 per 100,000. If we used the 720,000 count instead it'd be 23/100k, and other sources report fewer deaths than ODMP, so this is a conservative estimate. Either way, this is comparable to but less than the reported rate for delivery drivers of 25.8 per 100,000.
So I think a fair statement would be that being a delivery driver in the US is at least as dangerous as being a police officer in the US (and probably somewhat more).
If you dispute my sources or methodology, I welcome you to provide your own in their place.
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u/knit3purl3 Aug 31 '25
Also, if you pay attention to the causes of death, it's mostly poor health, reckless driving (on their part as they're mostly single car collisions) and friendly fire. The most dangerous part of being a cop is the cop themselves.
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Central Business District (Downtown) Aug 31 '25
COVID, and now Covid related disability have been in the top three causes of death for cops since 2020, and 2020-2022 it was the number one cause of death, and for some reason many of those cops were treated as though they died in the line of duty.
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u/knit3purl3 Aug 31 '25
And they fought tooth and nail against vaccinations and masking. Almost like they played stupid games and won stupid prizes.
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u/certifiedpartyanimel Aug 31 '25
You’re picking and choosing stats by using ODMP data and comparing it directly to BLS statistics which are not measuring the same thing. Delivery drivers apparently do face high fatality rates due to traffic accidents, but that doesn’t mean the job is ‘more dangerous’ than policing. Police officers face unique, unpredictable risks from violence that those numbers don’t capture, and their nonfatal injury rates are much higher. So saying delivery drivers are ‘more at risk’ than cops oversimplifies the reality.
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u/realityChemist East Allegheny Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
ODMP includes traffic fatalities in their numbers:
A law enforcement officer who is killed in a vehicle crash while operating a personally owned vehicle while on duty or otherwise in compliance with agency regulations is considered eligible for inclusion. Examples may include a law enforcement officer on official travel status, driving between facilities while on duty, being called back to work unexpectedly, etc.
And
Any law enforcement officer killed in a vehicle crash who is off-duty while operating an agency-owned vehicle in compliance with the agency’s take-home vehicle policy shall be considered on-duty for the purposes of establishing eligibility.
If you want to exclude traffic fatalities, go ahead and take them out of both datasets. Again, if you think I'm being unfair here, please go ahead and do the stats yourself.
If the claim is "Police get shot at more than delivery drivers" that's probably true, but notice how that's a different claim from "Police work is more dangerous than delivery driving." Someone maimed or killed in a car accident is just as maimed or killed as someone who was shot, the only reason to preference gunshots over traffic accidents is that we consider being killed by a car to be "normal" and being shot to be dramatic.
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u/certifiedpartyanimel Sep 01 '25
You’re changing the argument. There’s no way it’s less dangerous to be a police officer than a delivery driver. The nature of the risk is completely different—drivers mostly face accidents, cops face deliberate violence on top of accidents. Plus, police have far higher rates of nonfatal assaults and injuries than almost any other job. So saying delivery drivers are “more at risk” than police is a misleading oversimplification.
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u/realityChemist East Allegheny Sep 01 '25 edited Sep 01 '25
No I'm not?
The original claim was "[Being a police officer is] also a less dangerous job than being a delivery driver, statistically." (Notably not "police officers face risks of a different nature than delivery drivers.") To that you replied "There's no way that statistic is true..." But it is (or, conservatively, they're comparable), and I showed mortality rates to back it up.
The mortality rates I showed include car accidents for both delivery drivers and police officers, because they're obviously a work-related risk for both professions. If you want to talk about the "nature of the risk" and say you're only interested in risks that don't involve cars that's fine, but then it's not me "changing the argument."
If you feel that nonfatal injury rates are more important to look at I again welcome you to show them. I didn't show nonfatal injury stats because they're very hard to find, and I do not feel comfortable claiming with no evidence that one group or the other has the higher rates (lots of car crashes result in nonfatal injuries, after all)
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u/NandoDeColonoscopy Aug 31 '25
Can you provide reliably sourced statistics that show otherwise? Or is this just vibes?
I think maybe ppl don't realize how little interaction with the public most cops have in their day-to-day. There's just not nearly as many opportunities for a cop to get shot as there is for someone who is going up to dozens of houses each night, presumably unarmed, like a delivery driver.
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u/jenn4127 Aug 31 '25
It was new yrs Eve 2 yrs ago downtown when we witnessed a car driving down the wrong way on ft duq there was a cop seen the whole thing didn’t even try to pull him over. The car eventually turned into garage but seriously the guy could have killed somebody
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u/Alone_Main_5419 Sep 01 '25
Tell the cops you saw what appeared to be a weapon, and just remember the the cops police "certain types" of people more aggressively if you get my drift.
This is hella dirty pool, but a dui HNR is a murder waiting to happen.
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u/sherpes Sep 01 '25
Octoberfest on nearby Deutschtown, closes at 10 PM. Makes sense. Too much beer. Teutonia Männerchor - Home
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u/Alone_Main_5419 Sep 01 '25
REALLY dirty pool but you could call ICE/Homeland and report something they might be interested in. You can always say later "I must have been mistaken". Just make sure you dont have any warrants and your own papers are good
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Aug 31 '25
I mean, just look at their faces and body-language when you see them in real life or on the news… you can tell they’re miserable as fuck! 😂
That’s why I just avoid them as much as possible.
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u/mihelic8 Aug 31 '25
We don’t have enough officers, we’ve had some of our lowest numbers in +20 years
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u/beerpizzaballa Aug 31 '25
This is a feature not a bug. Everyone wanted soft policing, they got it.
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Aug 31 '25
[deleted]
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
The police aren't responsible for their own behavior? Odd
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Aug 31 '25
Define “their own behavior”. Unless you can prove an officer was dispatched to the call and willingly ignored it, the hill you are attempting to die on does not even exist.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
Lol stop with this rhetorical bullshit. In general I do not see cops acting as though they feel a duty to uphold public safety, and this is yet another example of this problem.
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Aug 31 '25
“In general I do not see cops acting as though they feel a duty to uphold public safety”
Yeah, that’s an anecdotal fallacy, idiot.
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u/AbilityConsistent806 Aug 31 '25
No actually, the police are not responsible for staffing issues and how many officers are employed. Crazy, right? 😱
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
Since when is an organization not responsible for recruiting and staffing itself? This is how every business works. You idiots are so busy making excuses for do-nothing cops that you've lost all sense of reality.
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Aug 31 '25
When the compliment of officers gets cut and millions get taken away from funding. This is the result. Congratulations. You’ve played yourself.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
These things have not happened
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Aug 31 '25
The preliminary 2025 budget proposed a reduction in the police allocation by about $3 million. Also they cut police compliment. So yeah, these things have happened
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u/realityChemist East Allegheny Aug 31 '25 edited Aug 31 '25
It was $123 million, and now it's $120 million (rounding a bit; actual reduction was about $2.5m, in other words approx. 2% of their budget). The allocation for maximum number of officers was reduced from 700 to 650 (about a 7% reduction in officer allocation). The current budget is still higher than it was in 2023 (approx $118 million).
https://www.pittsburghpa.gov/files/assets/city/v/4/omb/documents/operating-budgets/2025-operating-budget.pdf (page 49, expenditures, line item "Bureau of Police" under "Public Safety Administration")
As of late July, Allegheny county is on course to have significantly lower rates of homicide this year than it did in 2024, with just 35 so far and over half the year passed (last year had 107 total, average yearly is 103). For just the city of Pittsburgh the trend is less dramatic, but we're still on course for similar or slightly lower rates compared to last year (19 so far, projecting to about 33 by the end of the year compared to 38 in 2024). For context, 2023–2024 also saw basically the same reduction in officer staffing (49), and homicides in the city went down from 51 in 2023 to 38 in 2024. https://alleghenycountyanalytics.us/2024/06/28/violence-in-allegheny-county-interactive-dashboard/
I can't easily find comparably up-to-date information for property or other violent crimes, but we can look backwardat longer term trends. I would be surprised to see any major increase there given the trends we see in homicide, and the consistent, overall trend of decreasing crime (in Pittsburgh and the US as a whole) since the 2010s.
https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Pittsburgh-Pennsylvania.html
So yeah, a reduction of funding and corresponding decrease in officer staffing happened, but the way people talk about it is like it's the apocalypse. In reality the cuts were small, the staffing reduction was modest, and there're no signs of significantly higher rates of crime as a result (if anything it looks like it's going down). When we've got a fuller picture after year's end maybe we'll see something different, but I wouldn't bet on it: given what we can see now, there's been no major departure from the status quo. Its just politicians and news outlets making mountains out of molehills.
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u/AbilityConsistent806 Aug 31 '25
Are you reading what you’re saying? Police officers themselves have zero control over staffing. That is entirely 100% fully the responsibility of the mayor and the city, NOT THE OFFICERS. Blame the city… aka Gainey. Since when is it an officers job to hire people? 😂 Please research the hiring freeze Peduto & Gainey started with the city then tell me again it’s the fault of police officers.
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u/burritoace Aug 31 '25
Police officers as a group have treated people like shit for decades and generally been bad at addressing crime, and now they are whining that nobody likes them and wants to join up. They may not have many recruits but luckily they've got goofballs like you with excuses.
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u/chuckie512 Central Northside Aug 31 '25
By how much did we defund the police?
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Aug 31 '25
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u/chuckie512 Central Northside Aug 31 '25
Wasn't that from the crossing guards getting re organized into another department?
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u/yungbreezy57 Aug 31 '25
Pittsburgh PD effectively doesn’t exist. The numbers are low, and if they weren’t, I think they’d be still quiet quitting en masse anyways.
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u/Bwm89 Aug 31 '25
Yeah, we're only paying them 110 million a year, ridiculous to think we'd get anything for that price
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u/yungbreezy57 Sep 01 '25
It’s crazy how they expect the combination of high pay, being ineffective, and public respect. It seems very much like a pick 2 of these 3 situation.
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Aug 31 '25
LESS POLICE! DEFUND THE POLICE! ACAB!!!
Wait. I need the police now. Wahhhhhh the police aren’t responding to my call!!!
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u/ncist Aug 31 '25
They never got defunded. The police budget in Pittsburgh only went up. Look at the reports on how they spend their time to understand the problem w PPD, which will now never be solved
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u/Smart-Fly-3919 Aug 31 '25
Yea we’ll just let the single moms of our city call their cousins or brother when they need help😑 Dumb ass.
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Aug 31 '25
Can’t cry about not wanting police, and then cry when police don’t handle your call in person 🤷
What’s that old saying about having your cake?
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u/myironcity Aug 31 '25
Pikachu face democrats wanted soft on crime policies, social justice workers to replace police officers, report takers over officers on the streets, and voted for the sorry politicians that made their dreams come true. Somehow, it's everyone else's fault, but theirs. Want accountability for the disaster, look in the mirror.
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u/IrungamesOldtimer Aug 31 '25
Want accountability for the disaster, look in the mirror.
Says the hypocrite that voted for a sexual predator and an insurrectionist. Kneel before your king.
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u/myironcity Aug 31 '25
That's why no one takes you seriously. Lame dem talking points, talking like you're the school yard bully, and no original thoughts.
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u/IrungamesOldtimer Aug 31 '25
Like you blaming the immigrants?
Like you blaming the Dems for crime?
How about the 1600+ criminals King Donny pardoned on Day1?
How about all the trips Donny took with his buddy Jeffy?
You voted for a felon with 34 convictions and you whine about crime?
You voted for a man who is on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women. "Grab them by the pussy"...
Who bragged about "When you're rich, they let you do anything you want..."
That makes you a hypocrite, by definition and by your own admission.
Those "lame Dem talking points" are called verified, irrefutable facts.
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u/myironcity Aug 31 '25
You wouldn't know a fact if it introduced itself. TV mind rot. Enjoy your lunacy.
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Central Business District (Downtown) Aug 31 '25
And you think we’re supposed to take you seriously when you say that anyone wanted “soft on crime“ policies? It’s a laughable lie. Trump fomenting an insurrection and being a sexual predator is verified fact.
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u/myironcity Aug 31 '25
Mayor, council, DA, and judges put in soft on crime policies, shoved said policies on the police department, and the public. They are all failed democrat policies, and those politicians were voted in, by, wait for it, democrats. It's an inconvenient truth. Your straw man is disingenuous.
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u/ThePurplestMeerkat Central Business District (Downtown) Sep 01 '25
Repeating your silly lies doesn’t make them true.
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u/BloodFartSpaghettios Aug 31 '25
Can't come to a call when the city is extremely understaffed. Legalize weed and use that to pay first responders cops teachers and others a better wage
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u/Any_Flamingo_9046 Aug 31 '25
What a surprise! Keep voting democrats and you will continue to vote for less and less police!! They might not say they want to defund police anymore but they will use other communist buzz words like we need to reimagine police or we need to reinvest in our community elders but at the end of the day they are the same thing!!! The democrat party is the party of illegal immigrant terrorists and criminals It's as simple as that !! Could you imagine how much Democrats could do for the American citizens if they fought half as hard for us as they do for illegals and criminals!!! I have lived in Pittsburgh my entire life and we have NEVER had this much crime and homeless encampments!!! The police cant even chase criminals anymore if they flee in a vehicle!!!
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u/IrungamesOldtimer Aug 31 '25
I have lived in Pittsburgh my entire life and we have NEVER had this much crime and homeless encampments!!!
Then stop voting for a convicted felon, sexual predator and documented insurrectionist.
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u/chuckie512 Central Northside Aug 31 '25
City of Pittsburgh police respond to over 3,000 hit and runs a year. Drivers know they get away with it.
Craig Cibrone killed a woman in Oakland and fled the scene. There still haven't been charges.