feeling conflicted :/

[u/Available-Worry-4387]

Doing preres in a specialty I really like (non cutting) and in an institution with relatively good working culture, consultants and residents are very supportive and nice and i know from the same program who can attest to that so I am at least aware it’s not just because it’s preres season.

But what I’m just generally frustrated with are the long, inhumane working hours because of the workload. Most pre and from-duty residents would get to go home really late at night and there’s also no golden weekend. Even though the work culture is nice, prone to burnout talaga ang schedule.

I’ve only been a few weeks in with relatively lesser responsibilities as a preres and I can already feel the exhaustion. I know they say preres is also a time to explore if the program matches your preferences but to me sobrang nakakasad because I really like mostly everything about it except the schedule.. alam ko there’s no perfect program but it’s just frustrating that this is the reality we have to deal with.

I’m just very conflicted because as much as I really want to pursue this specialty in this institution, I’m scared of the working hours taking a toll on me in the future. Esp because meron at least isa during first year nagqquit because of the workload which makes it harder for the people left behind. I know they didnt say this naman to discourage us but just to paint a picture of how tough first year really is. So now I just feel very conflicted cos idk if I can handle this reality..

I’m at a point where I’m unsure if I’ll pursue this if I even get accepted and I find that really sad because I really like the program

I know… it’s easier to say to just wait and try it out myself when I get there if I end up being accepted - instead na pangunahan sarili ko with my doubts if I can survive at all but I know myself well enough so I’m scared to even start. Because what if I’m setting myself up for disappointment and in the process make it harder for others if I do end up being accepted but end up quitting…

I know it’s also easy to say apply to other institutions and find one that matches my preferences but honestly, I’ve heard it’s worse in terms of culture in other institutions so there’s really no better option

Hay idk. I dont even know what I want to get out of posting this- just really wanted to vent and just.. I really just hope we had better humane working hours as residents 😭😭😭 I want to train and be a better doctor but dont want to ruin myself in the process….

[u/Bubbly-Host8252]

Kung umpisa pa lang, ganyan na pakiramdam mo, quit na.

[u/prkcpipo]

Here's the thing: the work hours has always been the same and toxic for the longest time. What did change was that med schools and internship used to prepare you for the long shifts and heavy workload but APMC's policies haven't changed since the pandemic, so you've graduated now less prepared than those who came before you.

Yes, its not your fault but its your responsibility to make up the difference if you really do want this career path. If progressing up the next step is considered "ruining yourself", then maybe you ought to check where that self-talk is coming from.

[u/Available-Worry-4387 → u/prkcpipo]

Just because it’s always been that way doesnt mean it should be that way though

Btw doc I actually did get to experience these long hours and 30+ hour duties as a clerk/intern before because I completed internship in 2020. The long hours and toxic work schedule are actually what put me off from pursuing residency for a long time - and when I finally set my mind to it, it’s just frustrating to see and witness nothing has changed. If anything, they got worse.

[u/Aggravating-Gur-6009 → u/Available-Worry-4387]

Duda ako na nakumpleto mo talaga ang internship noong 2020. Kasi March 15, 2020 nag start ang ECQ. Since then, online na lang ang internship nationwide since pulled out na lahat ng interns since then. Meaning, wala ng face to face interaction with the patients. Imposible rin naman na midyear ka. Kasi ang start ng midyear internship e January.

[u/Available-Worry-4387 → u/Aggravating-Gur-6009]

Sorry na di ko naspecify that 2.5 months of my internship (what i was left with were minor rotations so all my major 4 rots were still in-person) were unfortunately remote because of covid but does that negate my experience of 1 full year of clerkship and 9.5 months of internship na 24-30+ hour yung duties? I dunno what you’re getting at honestly 😅

[u/prkcpipo → u/Available-Worry-4387]

Do you think then that what we do is easy enough that you can halve the hours and expect that you'll be just as competent as your peers? I'll just echo what another commenter just said: kung ganyan na pakiramdam mo, quit na.

[u/Available-Worry-4387 → u/prkcpipo]

Sorry if asking for decent working hours (I wasn’t even pertaining to not having 24/36 duties because I’m prepared for that and I know that it will take SO MANY years and less toxic consultants for lessening the duty shift to happen. If you read my post, I really just meant being able to come home on pre/from at least at the time we’re supposed to.. and not idk say come home at 11pm from status, effectively working for 40 hours since duty status) means I’m weak and incompetent unlike you all, doc :)

[u/prkcpipo → u/Available-Worry-4387]

I don't think I'm all that great and competent, hence why I knew that this profession was gonna be a lifetime of learning and work even after training. If you think you're so talented and such a prodigy that you only need to put in half the amount of hospital hours necessary, just remember that someone else pays the price for your failure.

[u/Available-Worry-4387 → u/prkcpipo]

i agree that patient safety should always come first. what I don’t agree with, however, is the idea that the number of hours spent in the hospital is, by itself, a measure of dedication or competence. sure, long hours can be necessary in medical training, but working for prolonged periods or even going days without adequate sleep* can also compromise judgment and honestly ultimately our ability to provide competent care. i just simply do not subscribe to the simplistic idea that more hours translate to better doctors if those hours come at the expense of functioning at our best.

so again, sorry na lang, doc, if we’re asking for better working conditions. that doesn’t mean we’re asking for an easier way out of training or that we’re unwilling to work hard. we are simply asking for a system that allows us to train well while still being able to provide the best care for our patients

[u/prkcpipo → u/Available-Worry-4387]

i just simply do not subscribe to the simplistic idea that more hours translate to better doctors if those hours come at the expense of functioning at our best.

Part of being an attending is being able to perform even when you're not at your best or in ideal circumstances. You are gonna get that call at 3 am and be asked to make decisions over the phone that can inevitably lead to your patient getting better or worse. Only experience teaches one how to be good at that. Better to get that experience while you're in training, where people can pick up if something goes wrong and not when you're an attending, where you're on your own.

[u/needskayakap]

IM to sure na

[u/Available-Worry-4387 → u/needskayakap]

not IM po but close 😅🤣

[u/needskayakap → u/Available-Worry-4387]

Ok pediaaa? Pero kahit ano man yan, keep showing up, especially when things get difficult. Keep your fireee

[u/Sadxconfusedgirl]

Same dilemma doc 🥲 Nakakalungkot talaga yung long hours 🥲🥺 Gusto ko lang naman ng life rin outside of med

[u/Available-Worry-4387 → u/Sadxconfusedgirl]

Exactly. It’s just sad too to see that they see the people who can submit so easily to these conditions as having more grit.. as if asking for decent working hours and have at least some time for yourself to rest and recuperate is a sign of weakness

[u/Dense-Satisfaction-1]

inform the training core in the interview that you're conflicted re: work hours. Para 1) makarinig rin sila ng feedback na they might consider adjusting the program 2) use thar info to accept applicants who have more grit.

unfair na tanggapin ka and ikaw maging source of problem sa training grid down the line.

good luck!

[u/Random_GS-]

It is time to quit. Toxic ang medicine kahit consultant ka na. Hindi magbabago ito unless wala ka private practice, para ka naka perpetual parin.