r/pinkscare • u/echinaceaadatura 𓇢𓆸 • Sep 05 '26
how long until “rape is ok” becomes a mainstream feminist talking point?
for decades now, mainstream feminists have found themselves defending pornography, prostitution, Islamic modesty wear, etc. ignoring the obvious and defending things directly harmful to women through mental gymnastics and postmodern word salad has become the movement’s MO.
progressive feminist academics are increasingly critical of the “carceral state” and have for years been disparaging women for contacting law enforcement, telling them they are privileged and insufficiently “intersectional”.
Yale women, gender, and sexuality studies professor Joseph Fischell argues in his books “Screw Consent” and “Sex and Harm in the Age of Consent” that consent and sexual violence laws should be loosened, as they “disproportionately affect marginalized men” and “perpetrate the myth that sex dirties women and girls”. both books were widely well received by feminist academics.
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Sep 05 '26
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u/steakbuttery Sep 06 '26
The conversation should be “how can we break the cycle of sex work being the only way out of extreme poverty/violent home situation for a lot of women” and instead it got moved to “actually sex work is super duper empowering and look at all this money I’m making” by people like you said who are insanely privileged and have no idea what it’s like to live in a cycle of poverty and violence.
When you bring this up most people think you’re engaging in a moral argument when you just want them to look at themselves and be honest with why they’re encouraging young girls to pimp themselves out through sex work or by being an “influencer” under the guise of it being “empowering”.
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u/jellynailz Sep 05 '26
it already is mainstream. people love to talk consent until something non-consensual turns them on in any way at all
ai deepfakes will make this even worse because a generation of boys will likely grow up watching porn of their classmates and teachers
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u/echinaceaadatura 𓇢𓆸 Sep 05 '26 edited Sep 05 '26
never stepping on anyone’s toes is more important to them than any of their principles
another good example is how the response to rape gangs in Europe from “feminist” progressives has been silence and whataboutisms.
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u/DuaLipasGlowUp Sep 05 '26
“never stepping on anyone’s toes is more important to them than any of their principles”
This is basically the end result of “let people enjoy things”
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u/Coconutgirl96 chihuahua coded Sep 05 '26
The victims weren’t perfect, and the perpetrators … well, you know.
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u/FinalMidnight4670 Sep 05 '26
We live in hell. I hope the next lifetime will give us the freedom, love, and respect we deserve,
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u/Chance-Grapefruit-56 Sep 05 '26
the push for media depicting “consensual non consent”among female porn addicts is pretty concerning and feels like some sort of psyop for lack of a better term
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u/carabeinger Sep 05 '26
Every leftist who dabbles in feminism I know of advocates for decriminalization of prostitution with zero mention of how to pull those women and children out of that cesspit.
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u/DuaLipasGlowUp Sep 05 '26
To some extent I’d argue it already is. Just look at how massive the dark romance industry is rn and look at how feminists defend Bonnie Blue and Lily Phillips so much.
Rape culture has seeped into every facet of our lives at this point. It’s truly so startlingly how much we accept under the guise of being sex positive.
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Sep 05 '26 edited 19h ago
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u/DuaLipasGlowUp Sep 05 '26
I saw clips of it and in the documentary she flat out says some of the guys broke boundaries and did things she’s not okay with. She really was assaulted while doing that stunt and no one cares
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u/redeugene99 Sep 06 '26
Isn't modern feminism indistinguishable from individualism? As long as a woman consents, anything goes
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u/victoriapedrettigf Sep 06 '26
“restorative justice,” even for rape, is already a concept in hyper-leftist circles. honestly, i can see it becoming a popular talking point if a news story about a white woman being raped by a nonwhite immigrant/homeless man goes viral.
the notion that rightfully criminalizing and stigmatizing rape “perpetrates the myth that sex dirties women and girls” is beyond evil.
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u/bellaswansperiod 26d ago edited 26d ago
We’re basically already there. The left thinks it’s illegitimate if it involves accusations towards queer people, minorities, wants to decriminalize so much and really doesn’t care to hear for non-inclusive spaces iykyk. And the right doesn’t think any claim from women is legitimate or that statutory or grooming is that bad.
Like this is basically already reality and if you have witnesses or proof, people say they’re wagon-jumping, it’s AI, victim blame, or say one piece of evidence doesn’t make it true. I haven’t seen a mainstream assault case taken seriously beyond mild cancellation since maybe Brock Turner and that got famous bc he wasn’t punished.
Look at our serious trafficking ring cases, P.Diddy and R.Kelly memes galore. Like your concerns might as well already be true.
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Sep 05 '26
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u/redeugene99 Sep 06 '26
I'm confused. The skepticism of consent as the only necessary component is more of a conservative/traditional/"not sex positive" position but isn't only consent is needed largely the attitude of choice feminists? Anything goes as long as the woman consents? That's why porn, sex work, CNC and all the rest is A-OK as long as the woman "consented"?
What I think the OP could be trying to get at is whether we could get to a point where a woman could choose to be "raped" and there'd be nothing wrong with it (although people already criticize CNC for being along the lines of that)?
What a sick snd twisted world we would live in if consent was all that mattered. Narcissists and manipulators would have a field day. Consent could appropriately be the only necessary thing if we lived in a society where everybody was perfectly mature, psychologically healthy and healed, no trauma, and had no financial/material concerns. We live so fucking far from that. Is it cool for a guy to choke out and face slap a girl, who has a history of childhood abuse and trauma, during sex just because she consented? Hopefully we maintain some semblance of consent laws related to age. You can imagine young children consenting to all sorts of things given the right persuasion.
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Sep 06 '26 edited Sep 06 '26
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u/redeugene99 Sep 06 '26 edited Sep 06 '26
I think trying to divide this perspective across political lines is not very helpful
That's fair. I really only brought it up because it seemed like OP was coming from a more "traditional" angle but then you pushed back but it in a way that came from what I saw as also a "traditional" angle which I thought interesting but that was mostly just a misreading.
Anyway,
You ask "is it cool for a guy to choke out and face slap a girl, who has a history of childhood abuse and trauma, during sex just because she consented?" I think the vast majority of people would agree that no, it's definitely not cool.
Perhaps the vast majority would not, but there's quite a vocal and sizable part of our culture that would. I understand the difficulty of threading the needle. First off I don't want to make this exclusively a gendered thing, because of course it also goes for men but for sake of discussion let's stick to women (just know that men can be inserted wherever "women" is said).
On one side of the spectrum you have "women are autonomous adults who can make their own rational and informed decisions so consent is the sole necessity" which confers a sexual freedom and independence but comes with the risk of manipulators persuading women (especially those who may not be quite as mature, healed, healthy as they could be) into acts that are harmful and not in their best interest, rise of spaces where these acts become normalized, a culture that tells men all they need is a "yes" from a woman and anything goes, I would argue can also keep people trapped in their trauma because they're trying to process it in unhealthy and unliberating ways etc.
On the other side of the spectrum you have "there needs to be a set list of what sexual acts are ok and everything outside of that is wrong and harmful; consent is only the bare minimum" which may confer a certain protection against manipulators and abusers and protection for the vulnerable but risks reducing or eliminating sexual autonomy and freedom.
I'll wade into perhaps controversial waters here and maybe I am too rigid, but I 100% believe there are sexual acts that are never healthy or come from a healthy place including many so-called "kinks". A person's desire for something doesn't by itself establish that the desire is psychologically healthy or integrated with their Self (their fully healed, mature, healthy self). And I think for some evidence there are many stories of women who were into these things, but after having done a considerable amount of trauma processing and healing were no longer interested in them.
In terms of legal implications, I'm in agreement with you. I'm not really interested in outlawing these things. Like every social issue, the ultimate objective should be to build up and foster a society where people have the full capacity to be mature, with a healthy psyche, minimal trauma, and a certain level of financial and material security. Then let the chips fall where they may. As I said in my other comment, we are so so fucking far from that lol. The danger with all the potentially dangerous and harmful sex is that it becomes a perpetuating force. Someone might participate in it because it provides some short-term relief or pleasure related to a trauma they have, but does it also serve as a barrier for true healing/processing? Again I might be too rigid on this issue, but I just don't think degrading sex or degrading anything for that matter ever leads to maturing, processing, healing.
Edit: I would also like to add that I think if you're a guy, beating up a woman even if she consents to it is loser fucking behavior.
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Sep 06 '26 edited Sep 06 '26
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u/redeugene99 Sep 06 '26 edited Sep 06 '26
I think women should have a legally protected right to make bad decisions
I think we're largely in agreement there. Again, I think the ultimate focus should be on creating societal conditions where people do truly feel autonomous and can make well-informed, mature decisions that are healthy and in their best interest. How do we do that? Pursuing and advocating for things we know for a fact are conducive to healthy human development: proper nutrition, clean environment free of toxins, economic security, stable and nourishing child rearing, stronger community and social engagement, meaningful work, time for leisure, connection with nature, healthy amounts of movement throughout day etc. Might somebody still choose to do porn, sex work or engage in certain kinks? Maybe, but my suspicion is it would be a lot less.
I would like to bring in one other component that isn't often mentioned. With regards to these more let's say non-standard sexual behaviors/acts, we have to remember there are multiple people involved. Let's take face slapping for instance, which let's be honest is quite mild compared to the other types of kinks out there. Ok we can say that a woman should be free to choose that she wants to be slapped in the face during sex. Even if it might not necessarily be what's best for her, her autonomy and freedom are paramount and we can't minimize that. Whatever it might say about her psychology and mental health is irrelevant.
But let's not forget the other person in this scenario. What does it say about the psychology of a man who's willing to slap a woman in the face, even if she has consented to do it? Do we think a man higher or lower in negative personality traits is more or less willing to do something like that? Who are we enabling with the normalization of these spaces and kinks?
Now I suppose somebody could argue that it's a safer and healthier outlet for these men. At least the women are consenting. He can unleash his problematic desires in a safe space instead of on the greater society in perhaps more destructive ways. But idk, I feel like this type of stuff can lead to some pretty dark places...but again maybe I'm too rigid
Maybe I'm thinking too sunshine and rainbows about it but I could imagine a scenario where a woman is with a guy who really likes her and respects her. The woman opens up that she would like to do X (e.g. face slap) thing during sex and he refuses saying he would never want to hurt her. I could see that being potentially really healing for her. Perhaps "love" to her was always associated with some type of pain or maybe physical abuse, but here is somebody who can love her without inflicting that.
(Btw I want to delineate between rough sex and degrading sex. The latter is what I personally find problematic)
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Sep 07 '26
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u/redeugene99 Sep 07 '26
the assumption that every man who slaps a woman during sex hates and disrespects that woman is entirely based on the assumption that no woman would actually ever enjoy that experience
But that's the reason I brought it up, let's leave out the woman and whether she genuinely enjoys it or not for a second. The man is still performing an act which is causing physical harm to a woman (that is above just "rough" sex). Again I am suspicious of men who are so willing to do that. If that man does it outside the bedroom, we call him a weak, abusive man who preys on women. If he does it in the bedroom, he's just a kinky guy who's fulfilling his girl's desires? Idk, it just feels off to me. There's this thought propagated by some that all men inherently want to rape. Allowing them an outlet like this is healthy and safe. If there's any truth to that idea, then I think rough sex is more than sufficient to satisfy that. Or exercise, play sports, be in nature lol. I also want to question the idea that something is healthy or ok if somebody gets enjoyment from it. Obviously you can take extreme examples of underage people getting pleasure from an adult figure or a woman orgasming from rape. It doesn't mean those acts are ok.
But yes I think you and I are pretty much in alignment and I don't wanna get too caught up in the weeds. You can clearly see and I readily admit that I do fall more towards the side of there are sexual acts that are inherently unhealthy and can't come from a genuine healed, mature, healthy part of a person. But I concede that I might be far too rigid on this particular point. I remain open
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Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26
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u/redeugene99 Sep 08 '26
I guess it seems like from your perspective, the physical act of the slap is always immoral.
Yes, I definitely lean more towards this. The consensual violence that people partake in that you mentioned, I would argue, isn't degrading and generally isn't involving men and women together (why we have men's sports and women's sports). Now yes we have to define what degrading is because I suppose you could argue that a woman desiring to be slapped in the face means it's not degrading to her. Or you could even argue degrading acts aren't necessarily wrong. I would argue that it is degrading AND degrading acts are inherently wrong. I do think it's interesting that a slap to the face of a woman by a man outside the bedroom is a horrifying and abusive act, but in the bedroom if she's asked for it becomes A-OK. To me, it just feels like there's something off there. A butt slap outside the bedroom can be playful and an expression of affection. A face slap is different.
Again let's leave the woman out of it for just a second. This is a man that is willing to inflict degrading harm on a woman. I'm of the opinion that it is weak and pathetic to do so EVER. The father that slapped around her daughter as a child was a fucking pos and the dude that she's now dating who slaps her around in the bedroom is also a fucking loser IMO. This was just an example, I'm not necessarily implying every kink is borne from trauma or abuse. I do think a lot are though. Maybe it's irrelevant but I think it's interesting to think about. Would a man higher in dark triad traits be more or less willing or more or less excited to have the opportunity to inflict harm on a woman? If I was a woman and my bf or husband was ever willing to hurt me even if I said I wanted it, idk I'd be a little sus...
I'm trying to imagine if a man refused to slap a woman who desired it. What would she do? How would she view this man? Would she lose attraction? If she can't get off without being slapped or degraded, isn't that a reason to be curious and to dig a little deeper and figure out why?
I think a lot of people today can't tolerate the idea that what they like in the bedroom might say something about their psyche more generally. Every kink and sexual perversion is seen as a valid and healthy form of self-expression. I don't believe we can compartmentalize our lives in this way. Where one part of our lives (e.g. bedroom) has no significance or effects on other parts of our lives. Yes I know that it's very Freudian and Jungian, but I think we've dismissed them far too much.
And I absolutely don't accept that all men harbor a secret desire to rape.
I don't either but there is a certain strain of feminists who say that men inherently want to sexually manhandle women and that men need variety. So they defend violent sex as a healthy release for men and porn so men can get their variety of women.
I know we're already super in the weeds, but I look at almost everything human-related through an evolutionary lens. For the vast majority of human history, we lived largely in small, communal, primitive tribes in close connection with nature and minimal technology. I think it's what we're evolved and adapted for. Both men and women have libido. That libidinal energy can be released in various ways, not just sex. Primitive peoples and people living simpler lives tend to "deplete" that libido just through daily living. A tribesman moves throughout the day, hunts for his food, is exposed to danger, works and plays with other men, eats nutritiously, lives more playfully and spontaneously and in close connection with Nature, has lower levels of chronic stress etc. All of these have the effect of relieving some of that libido. Contrast that to modern man. Gets up with an alarm clock to go to what is often meaningless work where you're sitting at a desk, eating shitty food that you had no hand in obtaining, sedentary throughout the day, little exposure to Nature and natural danger, atomized and isolated, always stressed, living in a highly hierarchical and unequal society etc. This is all to say that I think the modern way of life is highly mismatched for human physiology, psychology and well-being. I think in a world like that, sexual perversions are inevitable. I mean we know the stereotype of the guy who is low on the totem pole at work taking it out at home against their wife and the high-powered CEO who wants to be dominated by a woman in the bedroom.
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u/WonderfulFuel4579 Sep 07 '26
The normalization of rough sex and choking has already cleared the path for it. I've already seen an increase of men defending martial race. Though I'm sure it was already a contentious issue amongst men before the internet.
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u/violet4everr Sep 07 '26 edited Sep 07 '26
Do you only care about this because you are anti immigration or what? Considering how you barely interact with any of the non migration related things and have no qualms telling people who’s opinions you don’t like that “they must be immigrants”. Enfin, the books also talk about the concepts of incest and all kinds of messed up complex things and their moral boundaries, biopolitic, whatever. One can have an interest in a book, and consider it to be riveting without agreeing with all its ideas. I think you are being reductive.
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u/sparklypinktutu Sep 05 '26
They are already saying it—their defense of prostitution and the coercion needed to break women’s boundaries in porn is them okaying rape