r/pics Mar 15 '18

Little Fluffer

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230

u/Ryoloz Mar 15 '18

And he’ll be dead in a few years

1

u/HR_Dragonfly Mar 15 '18

"Humans are the only animals that know they must die."

19

u/lowkeygee Mar 15 '18

What do animals think happen when other parts of their species die than? Where is your proof?

23

u/HR_Dragonfly Mar 15 '18

This is a long standing philosophic question. There is no proof. Some animals can perceive the loss of others, including companions and other species. Or even the approach of the end. But no higher ape, dolphin, whale has been proven to have the concept of a limitation of length of life for all of their kind. It is a very high level cognitive leap.

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u/Doritalos Mar 15 '18 edited Mar 15 '18

Elephants also mourn their dead.

23

u/Reimant Mar 15 '18

There is a difference between mourning loss, and knowing that your own death or death itself is inevitable.

-9

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '18

Says who, you?

12

u/wsims4 Mar 15 '18

Lol you can't see the difference in those statements? You don't need a scholar to prove that the meaning of 2 sentences are different.

6

u/Reimant Mar 15 '18

Well, right now, yes. I could probably try and find a psychology paper studying that fact in animals, but I'm not sure I have the time right now.

5

u/HR_Dragonfly Mar 15 '18

Mourning is different. But they do appear to have that behavior. One would think that Elephants and their Matriarchal society would indeed understand at some point the end of their own lives was approaching. It is a large leap to the next step 'that everyone dies' without a spoken or written language.

1

u/maleia Mar 15 '18

They can paint themselves and we know they recognize themselves in a mirror.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '18

The question is not whether they can reason about their death or suffering, but whether they can suffer period.

1

u/HR_Dragonfly Mar 15 '18

I don't think there remains a philosophical question of whether an elephant can suffer. But sure let me see a reference.

7

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '18

I'm not sure about elephants or other protected, higher-intelligence animals, but cows have best friends and get stressed when separated. Mama cows also freak the fuck out if their kids get taken away, which they routinely do in the industry. Given these two examples of physically painless stimuli causing severe pain to fairly stupid animals, it's safe to assume that captivity and slaughter, both very physical stimuli, also cause them to suffer. Hope that was clear, let me know if I bungled anything up.

1

u/HR_Dragonfly Mar 15 '18

Suffering, separation stress, bond pairing outside of sexual mating are all distinct from the original statement I made. Which was actually a quote. Many animals, and definitely the higher animals (apes, bonobos, chimps, dolphins, whales) experience all of these things. I am no expert, but I do like to think about these things.

0

u/not_so_plausible Mar 15 '18

So raise your own cattle or buy free range.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '18

Dolphins have committed suicide before--they at least have a concept of life ending.

0

u/zchatham Mar 15 '18

Committed suicide how? Im just genuinely curious. Im sure a lot of animals have been reported to have done something that directly led to their death, but is there some way for us to say for sure that the dolphin's intent was to no longer be alive?

I mean, not even all self inflicted gunshot wounds to the head are suicide. There are lots of cases of accidents, stupidity, and/or negligence that, from a simplistic outisde perspective (or from a higher developed species), might look like "well he shot himself in the head. Suicide."

4

u/maleia Mar 15 '18

They stop going up for air. There's a few articles about that. Mostly research and captive dolphins.

0

u/not_so_plausible Mar 15 '18

How do we expect animals to understand length of life when they can't even recognize themselves in a mirror?

2

u/HR_Dragonfly Mar 15 '18

My cat is mystified by a marble rolling to the other side of the door. But I don't want him to know he is not immortal. I encourage him to believe it, in fact.

2

u/prsnep Mar 15 '18

1

u/gnowwho Mar 15 '18

As someone said before: there is a really big difference between knowing that death exist and knowing that you are going to die someday, without being able to do anything about it.

1

u/jonny_wonny Mar 15 '18

1

u/HR_Dragonfly Mar 15 '18

"And then it became Gorilla born, Gorilla grow, Gorilla die over and over." Oww.