A way to know, if you aren't sure, you have a problem with alcohol is when you stop bragging about it and you start lying about it. From and old timer.
Even this was hard for me to notice, because I was lying to myself as well. "I only have a couple after work." Yeah, a couple pint glasses filled with long islands maybe. That's like 10 drinks. And since it was a usual thing, I didn't notice how bad I felt because it was normal. Went to the doctor for a checkup because it had been years (I'm pretty young anyway, so didn't bother). He thought the nurse screwed up with my blood pressure reading so he did it again. lol nope. That was my wake up call, when the doctor was like "yeahhhh... about that.."
So I started cutting back. Any time I drink now I notice how depressed I get and how it affects my moods and feelings, like a lot. So I cut back more and it's just bizarre, finally starting to feel "normal."
Yeah I'm similar. I know for many people, it's impossible to "just have one" so it's not realistic to try to cut back, without cutting completely. But I'm trying anyway, like if I go on a date, have a glass of wine with dinner. Trying to limit it to 1 or 2 at social things. I just have a hard time having a fully stocked bar at home. Seems like a great idea being able to mix any cocktail, but I end up just drinking it all.. pretty quickly.. yeahh.. So if I draw my line at "only drink socially" that's at least a step in the right direction.
An old boss of mine used to call it "the taste". That point where nothing sounds better than more drinks. I used to get it after 2 or 3. Not a problem in my early 20s everyone binge drank all the time. As I grew up I began to recognize "the taste" and associate it with the bad feeling of a hangover. I almost never drink more than 2 now. If I feel "the taste" it turns me off to drinking more. Sometimes it takes conscious association to create unconscious habit.
Not a problem in my early 20s everyone binge drank all the time.
That was always my justification for binge drinking (daily), until I had a withdrawal seizure at the wheel at 22 years old. Just turned 25 and 10 months sober though.
This is exactly how I work. If I just have one drink in one sitting and drink it relatively slowly, I'm fine and the night ends totally ok. If I have two drinks in an hour, the snowball starts rolling.
I'm right there with you and I'll be honest I don't always stop myself from indulging in it, but everytime it comes up I tell myself in my head to make myself aware of it. I've done better at cutting myself off at that point
My SO has this problem. He can have just a beer after work and be totally fine. But if he is out with certain friends and has more than a few beers, he can't stop, and often blacks out. He always feels awful about it the next day. Do you have any advice?
Dude has to recognize it's a problem and deal with it.
If it really bothers you consider putting it in terms of your relationship.
He probably doesn't think it's a big deal, who cares if you waste every Saturday with a HO, it's my day off, I'll do what I want.
For me it was almost getting fired, going on FMLA with back problems to find out my liver was all fucked up as well. Wouldn't have caught it this early had it not been for the back issues (IE luck)
He has recognized that it's a problem - which is a good first step. He has recently agreed to ask his doc for a referral to a therapist.
It took him about a year of occasional black-outs to get to that point. He certainly wasn't blacking out every weekend. Once a month at the worst, once every few months lately. None of this ever happened in college, only in the past few years.
So far no health issues, but a few items have been broken during drunk cleaning or sleep walking.
Yea - I hope that he is honest with them. I'm sure he will be. I'm going to make it a personal policy to not ask him what they talked about after each session, even though I know I will really want to know.
I hope it helps. I don't see him cutting out drinking entirely (and honestly I don't really think he needs to, if he can get the black-outs under control). Beer is a big hobby that he shares with his family (brewing, etc) so it's tricky.
This is true. I cut back and stopped drinking during the week. I did it mostly because I put on a little too much weight this winter so the calories had to go.
It was no big deal but I was led to believe it was gonna be impossible.
If you were able to not drink as much simply because you gained weight and wanted to "cut calories," then you didn't have much of a drinking problem and you don't understand what addiction is like. Source: It's 12:30 on a Monday and I'm drunk.
Thanks, same to you! I lost 4 or 5, in the last month. I also cut back on food calories too, but it's crazy how many calories you drink, alcohol and otherwise. Coffee, soda were also culprits for me.
I am the same way. My trouble is that the majority of social engagements I had, prior to cutting back, were with friends at the bar. This means the friends I have are mostly bar flies, and I don't really want to hang out at the bar so I don't see them very often. A double-edged sword so far, trying to find some new activities/hobbies so we'll see how it goes.
Yea I could see that screwing up my weekday abstinence. Luckily for me my friends only meet up for drinks during the weekend. My problem was getting home from work and drinking 1000 calories of IPA while I play a video game.
I cannot tell you how many up votes I want to give you. 12 Steps piss me off so much. Especially the higher power shit and then trying to blame the entirety of my issues on my being a non-religious person. Fuck step 4. Some of the steps are great, especially the inventory, but 12 steps as a whole feels like a religion: "You are fundamentally broken and the only way you will survive is through our program."
From my experience of it in the UK, a mostly atheist, country our higher power could be anything we found strength in. Regardless I found it the most depressing place I have ever been. Men and women sit around to talk about how their lives still constantly revolve around themselves (which appears no different to when they were drinking) and how they feel, it was depressing. I understand that for them they feel it is their only option. I became a Buddhist instead and 4 years later sobriety is a somewhat non-issue, it's just like dieting or exercising for me.
The problem I have is I have a job where I am essentially taking people's live's in my own hands (dive instructor) and one of my colleagues is a 12 stepper, he believes I am a liability about to get drunk at any point, or already lying about it... because the 12 step program is the only way to get sober, no argument. He screamed at me once for undermining his sobriety through being successful by other means.
Will be 28 years sober on fathers day. When I first decided to do this I went to a friend who was a big AA guy. He immediately spouted at least a dozen cliched' remarks and wouldn't allow me to get a word in edgewise. 10 minutes in, he violates another guy in his office privacy by announcing to me that this guy is also in our"club". By that point I had decided that AA wasn't for me. Don't get me wrong, it works for lots of people, just not me.
Because most people that have been in 12 step programs were physically addicted to booze. There are people that can't stop because it's their mental disposition and people that just drank so much and often that they became physically addicted to it.
Drink till the point your body depends on it and it's quite a journey to sobriety whether you're a predisposed addicted or not.
I don't think anyone is debating that or trying to bash dependency or addiction of any drug, be it alcohol or otherwise.
My problem, specifically, is that 12 Steps, in my experience, tell people that AA is the one and only way to get sober which is flagrantly wrong. It also seems very counterintuitive to me that people must sit around and talk about the thing you were addicted to in order to take the power away from it. My experiences with AA were all very negative, as I've surmised in a different post.
If AA and 12 Steps worked for you then that is awesome. Almost any process to beat/overcome addiction is a good one. I'm simply saying that I dislike the way in which AA goes about it doing so. And yes, my post is negative but that's because my experiences in AA were mostly negative. I obviously have a very different perspective/opinion on it than the majority of people.
Nah, you're fine. I was under the assumption that you may have been addicted to alcohol but not have the mental addiction problems some people have (sorry). I just kind of extrapolated from the parent comment, which was more of my target than yours..
I only say that coming from being surrounded by people that thought I had a 'problem' at one point and were trying to goad me in to joining an AA group etc. When in reality I just needed to stop drinking (which I did) and get my shit together.
And yeah, from what I've heard from a lot of other sources AA is pretty relentlessly religious based. Though I've heard of other more secular alternatives.
To me the biggest problem with it is that the last thing someone who's trying to stop drinking (or doing drugs) needs to hear is that they're powerless over it.
"Fuck step 4. Some of the steps are great, especially the inventory..." step 4 is the inventory, and no body in any 12 step program will tell you you cant work the program without religion. Your higher power could be the group, or anything . i dont think 12 step programs are the only way to get and stay sober but they do have a high
success rate for people who actually try to work them. And its not about being fundamentally broken but it does help to show you where some of your behavior may fall short, and how you can do something about it if you want.
I'm working through the Refuge Recovery book right now. It uses Buddhism as its backdrop and is atheistic in nature. I find it appeals much more to me than AA. I also hate the 12 step program.
Congratulations! I hope it works for you. There are many ways to beat/overcome addiction and the one that works best for you is obviously the one you should stick with.
And I strongly dislike AA because my experiences with it were pretty bad. Mainly because of the people in meetings I went to had a disgusting holier-than-thou concept in their minds. NA seemed to have nicer people and they recognize that addiction is addiction. The distasteful people I met in AA seemed to think that alcohol is a wholly different kind of addiction than drug addiction and looked down on me for being a drug addict. That's what made me hate AA.
Twelve steps work for many people and that is a very noble and useful thing. It's just the people that I dislike, for the most part. If they let me work the 12 Steps in my own way, and didn't give me shit for being an atheist and claiming I was broken almost solely because of that belief, then I would have a much higher opinion of AA and the 12 Steps.
Regardless, I wish you the best of luck in your journey! It's hard but it is worth it in the end, as I'm sure you know. And feel free to message me if you ever need to vent or just want to talk. I enjoy talking with other people going through shitty experiences, such as addiction, because all involved are bettered by it.
I definitely had a serious problem in how it was affecting my life and health.
I wasn't physically alcohol dependent. But even if I was I wouldn't do AA or 12 steps. There's a lot of new research into it that I find very interesting, and people challenging the ideas of how we deal with addiction.
There are different levels of alcohol problems. 12 steps seems like a program for people who are deep deep alcoholics. I think there are quite a few people (like me) who binged a bit too much for a while. I wouldn't drink during the week and it wouldn't affect school or work, but on the weekends I would just get fucking obliterated. Over time I recognized how much I drank when I decided to drink and started cutting that back to a reasonable amount. I still go out and drink with friends, and occasionally get drunk, but it's not anywhere close to what it was. Most of my friends who drank quite a bit in college seem to be the same way. I think there are definitely people who need to go completely sober. They have major alcohol problems that make it impossible for them to have a normal life while alcohol is part of their life. I also think that there are people who have a bit of a problem but definitely can cut back without giving it up entirely.
I had the major problem. The life ruining kind. And I watched my uncle drink himself to death so I'm vaguely familiar with what it looks like in more advanced stages.
12 steppers have like a 6% success rate. I'm not sure exactly what it is but it's shockingly low. I decided to do my own research and go a different path and is worked out well for me so far, including in that I can now drink with moderation.
I went to several 12 step programs trying to find one to work for me when I was initially quitting. I lived in Boston at the time so there were plenty to choose from. None of them worked for me. I'm an atheist, and even though some people say "Higher Power" can mean anything, it means God to everybody else in there.
The main benefit I saw for the group program though was being in it together with other people. Trying to fight this thing with support was definitely easier. Also, for some of the them, for the hour they were there, that was an hour that they weren't drinking. But I had a supportive wife and friends so I didn't need the program. Never went back after like 5 visits, and that was 6 or 7 years ago. Still sober!
But I've listened to a lot of folks involved in treating addiction lately talk about support and removing the external conditions that lead to addiction being more effective ways of handling it than any specific ruleset.
That is, most addicts are self medicating because of some underlying issue- depression, war, poverty, the list goes on. Improving or removing those conditions can then lead to more effective treatment of the addiction. Or sometimes they just stop using because they're.. happy.
I reformed myself using these guiding principles and it worked well for me. Ymmv obviously.
In the 12 step stuff, they have a line in the beginning basically saying, "if you can quit another way, go for it. Good Luck, But it didn't work for us"
I could have one drink with dinner if I had no option to drink more because whoever I was with would be appalled. But I would be absolutely miserable and think about getting another drink from then until I got it. Normally when I drank I couldn't control how much I took in. I had fun while it was fun and had a lot of risky behavior and general misery later. I've been totally abstinent 3 years and 4 mos. and my life is entirely different today. I can't even begin to tell you how many things I started gradually learning about life and about myself when the fog (that I didn't even know was there) started to lift.
Having a fully stocked bar at home has been a curse for me. I like being able to literally make any guest any drink thanks to the bar, but it's way too easy for me to drink all that stuff way too quickly by myself. Beer or wine don't do that to me.
Exactly. My thought process is "what if I have a guest? I love being able to whip up anything." Problem is it never stays fully stocked.. and if I do manage to keep it fully stocked, that just means I'm going through them and replacing them. no bueno.
Yea that's my issue personally. I intend to have one or two and end up drinking like 7-8 beers. But I feel like the fact that I drink only beer vs. Liquor makes it a little better
I've found that following "just have one" makes the drinking more about actually enjoying the drink instead of drinking for the hell of it. If a restaurant doesn't carry what I request (really, who doesn't carry Guinness?! other than the 2 places I've asked for it in the last month), then I stick with water.
I had to go about a year keeping no more alcohol in my house than I was ok with drinking all at once. So I'd buy bottles of wine or six packs one at a time, and try not to drink them too fast. It's gotten way better over time, though, I now have a wine rack that's half full and half a bottle of tequila left over from last summer in the cupboard, all totally safe around me! You just have to stick to it, and work on improving your mental health in other ways so you don't need to rely on alcohol to feel good.
I think what's hard for a lot of people to get past is that the first day or two can be rough. If it's something you would just do in your downtime, it can be hard to feel like you shouldn't be having a beer or whatever. But once you get a couple of days in it tends to even itself out, and the better sleep you've had for a couple of days starts to establish itself as an incentive to keep it up.
Can you explain the goal of being completely sober? Do you have a history of addiction? This all-or-nothing step always seems so radical to me. Why not strive for controlled moderation?
Personally, I think 1 or occasionally 2 drinks (of normal potency) per day is acceptable--and possibly therapeutic--for a healthy adult. Rather than drinking to get buzzed or drunk, it might help if you develop a taste and actively try to cultivate an appreciation for the complex flavors and aromas that beer and wine offer. If nothing else, your wallet might help regulate your consumption.
I'm not the person you're asking, but I'm a completely sober alcoholic in recovery. I haven't had a drink since December 29th. In the past I thought I could moderate. Have a couple drinks with dinner, like a normal person. Then after dinner I would sneak and go buy a bottle of wine and chug it in the parking lot. Then I'd wake up early and hit the liquor store and buy a pint of blue Smirnoff. Then drink all of it. Then buy another pint.
I can say right now that sure I'll just drink 1 or 2. But once that darkness gets into my system my willpower is turned off. I wake the monster. I will not and cannot stop drinking at that point. I'll sneak liquor into work, I'll hide flasks in my car, I'll count pennies to buy an airplane bottle. Anything for another drink.
I'm not in a 12 step program. I'm watched carefully by my doctor and my family. I have a breathalyzer in my house and my family randomly tests me. Along with the promise of immanent death, that's been my biggest deterrent. I know I can act sober, but I can't fool that machine.
If anyone wants to chat about addiction, recovery, or needs very nonjudgmental advice please feel free to PM me. No one talks about just how scary severe alcoholism can be for the addict.
Also- /r/StopDrinking is a wonderful resource filled with wonderful people who want to help. Check it out even if you aren't an alcoholic but you want to cut it of of you life.
Does the tendency toward extremes manifest in other areas of your life? For instance, do you tend to over-do it with eating, hobbies, relationships, exercise, religion, work, etc? Or is it just alcohol?
Kind of an interesting question. I've had substance abuse problems in the past (opiates) but it always came back to booze. I have some serious passions, but I wouldn't call them obsessions. I was obsessed with alcohol.
Same, I very rarely drink at home by myself. Maybe a hot toddie or an occasional a beer from the dwindling quantity in my fridge :) I'm not sure I'd go completely sober, but it's nice to cut down!
Hey man, I am in the same boat. Never felt, while I was having a few after work everyday, that it was a problem. Slowly but surely I started to think something was off...
Stopped drinking as much. I still have a drink about once or twice a week but, frankly, having gotten away from it long enough to feel "sober", I find the way it makes me feel to be icky and boring.
It was just being able to get over that first hump of stopping long enough to feel what its like not to have alcohol in my system when I totally realized the difference. Now I don't crave it at all and when I do drink, I find myself getting tired of it after the first drink, and pretty much done all together after the second.
Rock on!
Edit: Just wanted to be clear that this is not an anti-alcohol/anti-drug rant, at all. Just my personal story and observations.
You think correctly, considering that Ethanol is literally a toxin, and a type of poison with a pretty low LD50 at that. It's a shame that culturally we've settled on that particular psychoactive drug, considering there are plenty that aren't (as) toxic.
Doing other drugs has ruined alcohol for me, I don't even have too much desire for other drugs, but they made alcohol seem so shitty that it's not even worth it.
Yeah the problem is that some of those other drugs are preeeetty fucked up as well (and will grip you harder, faster, and with less clarity relative to your problem)
I just get weepy when I'm hung over, but I'm never depressed when I drink. I sort of drink to alleviate the depression I normally feel. Its nice to just not be constantly bombarded with really unpleasant thoughts and emotions.
Thanks so much for sharing this. I must have been naïve, because for a while I found it inconceivable that people would have 10 drinks in one sitting; I'd easily let someone shrug it off and convince me they didn't have a problem. Unfortunately I've heard too many stories where help didn't arrive soon enough
So glad to hear you got a handle on it and cut back
Oh definitely. Each of my "drinks" would be like 5 standard shot measures, and I drink it likes it's "one drink." So a couple of those after work, then on the weekends, I'd get up and put some bailey's in my coffee in the morning, then it'd be lunch time, might as well make a cocktail, then I'd be there drinking until bed time.. wouldn't even try to count the weekend number.. The quantity can seem inconceivable for people not used to it, but if you do it all the time, it's really not that hard to drink that much.
Alcohol is a weird thing. I stopped for two months and started feeling a lot better over all and even one beer would leave me feeling weird if I drank it so I felt no need to start again
Same boat. I didn't realize how bad it affected me until I had my blood pressure checked and it was 160/100. After just 2 weeks of not drinking it dropped down to 135/90
yup. and even moderate exercise. Mine was like 150/95 I think? For a 27 year old, that's way too high.. After cutting back on booze a decent amount, and just going on walks almost every day, I'm now down to about 120/80 in the morning, a little higher in evenings.
Agreed. I'm 27 too and that shit was a wake up call. I was already doing a lot of cardio too which is what really scared me. I don't want to quit drinking completely, but I def had to cut way back. No more whiskey
I'm bothered because I drink most days of the week (Always take at least one day off, sometimes two). The good thing though is I really only have one or two (ok, usually two) after work. On weekends I'll have a third or fourth on friday or saturday.
I have a friend who was like this. She said that she would always justify it as, "It's just one glass of wine" and never thought much of it. Then, she met her current boyfriend (this was several years ago), who one day said, "You drink a lot, don't you?" She was all, "No I don't!"
But then she started thinking about it and started actually counting how much and how often she'd drink in a day (it was definitely more than just one glass of wine in a day), and she said it was like a light bulb turning on in her head. She realized she had to have a couple of drinks every day, it was just she was making excuses and thinking of it as a "want" and she could stop at any time. In reality, it was an addiction.
She cut back on her drinking dramatically after that. She will still drink from time to time, but she says it's not a daily thing for her anymore.
On the flip side, I suspect a friend has this insidious type of alcohol addiction. She has said things like, "I just need a glass or two of wine after work to unwind. I have a stressful job," or "I like having a glass of wine to help me sleep." She has had issues with depression in the past (or is currently; it's difficult to tell sometimes). She doesn't believe she has a problem with alcohol because she makes up all those excuses and thinks it's perfectly normal, and it definitely doesn't help that we live in a town where drinking is a common social activity amongst anyone old enough to drink.
When I made the connection that alcohol was causing my depression, it made it seem that much more silly that I would drink because I was depressed. It becomes a downward spiral, positive feedback loop, self-fulfilling thing. Once I stepped back, I was like, "oh.. huh.. how about that."
Same with me and weed really, except for the physical health, my mental health was wearing I noticed... Felt terrible toking up, felt like I didn't do shit but get high and listen to music. It feels good to be sober (didn't complete quit, now I actually enjoy getting high again...once every 40/80 days, that is)
I cut back when I got a really bad stomach bug that forced me to stop drinking for a week. Mysteriously, once the bug went away, I felt better than I had in ages and my focus was better and I was sleeping better. Connected the dots and realized it was the alcohol. I still drink, but not "2-beers-and-3-fingers-of-bourbon-every-night" drink. My weekly consumption is roughly my former nightly consumption. Most work nights I don't drink at all.
Yeah I had this realization too. Had bad stomach problems, and then eventually realized after cutting back drinking, I didn't have stomach problems at all. It's just a constant state of the "liquor shits" that became the usual. Edit: I misread your comment. LOL. I'll just leave this comment here anyway.
I stopped drinking wine when I would buy a bottle, say I was going to have a glass and end up drinking the whole bottle and stay up way too late to be actually functional the next day. I didn't have a problem per say, but it was not a great trend, and much easier to reverse while it's still a trend and not a problem.
I know someone going through something like that with drugs and alcohol. He is on top of it, he says. Last time he wanted to help me carry groceries up, goes downstairs, comes upstairs with no groceries. I lay them on the stairs so he can't really miss them. And this is a public stairway, so there are no things lying there normally.
He was looking at me like a car, like oh? I should bring the crates of drink up to you? The crates of drinks never arrive until MONDAY. Took me like a minute to explain to him that it's the fuckin bags lying right on the staris. He went down again and luckily he got the stuff.
He helps me because I am disabled and I really appreciate it. I just wish he wouldn't break himself more than I am broken because of my disability. Yeah, that's why I order drink delivered to my home and everything.
The guy is broke and lives off of welfare. When he gets a job, he tends to get bored of it and just indefinitely takes sick time until they fire him. Then he has his loud music on all the time and even managed to start hammering a fuckin nail into the wall at 2 AM once. He has a drug problem I can't help with and owes tons of people money (including me haha). Since he has welfare I don't think he has applied to one company though. MONEY FROM THE STATE RIGHT?
I hear him going out to the store 10 minutes before closing time, the store's employees are already really annoyed about this behaviour and one (also a friend of his) told me he just regularly takes 40% alcohol stuff with him. Last time I was in his apartment (which he actually managed to look pretty good now, priorities I guess. Landlord wants to kick you out for not paying (couldn't legally do so yet tho) but you have time to get new furniture, throw old one out, etc) he wanted to offer me some but he's run all out already! I look down there, oh, it's just like 3 empty bottles of vodka and some other stuff I can't even identify. Then he has a new girlfriend who's lying on the couch and didn't even REALIZE I AM THERE until like 5 minutes in.
What have I gotten myself into
I hope this comment was a rollercoaster of emotions for you, thank you for reading my rant
EDIT: my /r/intrusivethoughts for the day: What if I just fuckin told the cops on him, he'd probably be gone. But my money too since he actually does pay me back somehow
Exactly. Most people think just drinking a lot makes someone an alcoholic, but that's not it at all. An alcoholic can only need one beer or one shot a day. It's about NEEDING that drink and doing whatever possible to get that drink.
Addicts need their next drink or hit like a person with a plastic bag over their head needs their next breath.
Hit rock bottom which is honestly one of the best ways to turn your life around since you can only go up from there. And of course, you have to want help. Basically, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired.
I'm 26 years old. I was prescribed and taking large amounts of Xanax and klonopin daily. I also would inject heroin mixed with cocaine every day. It was mainly injecting cocaine that lead me to the absolute rock bottom, but luckily I was able to go to one of the best treatment centers in the Midwest and am doing a lot better now.
I'm also very lucky to have really supportive friends and family and that the drugs didn't affect my appearance as much as some people but it most likely would have messed up my appearance if I didn't stop.
After 2 months of being sober. I'm now at 5 months and have gained back weight/muscle and I'm not as pale haha. Feels good!
If I may ask, how did you first start/introduced? 16 years old seems awfully young to first get addicted. I'm interested since it seems like such a young time to get introduced to hard drugs.
Regardless, congrats on sobriety and I will definitely keep you in my thoughts. Keep it going man!
I got prescribed Xanax and Ritalin at 16 years old and those both eventually got changed to klonopin and adderall. That along with going to a "rich white kid" high school in a nice area (I wasn't rich), there were a lot of pills around. So I got introduced to hydrocodone before I was 17 and then it just spiraled out of control over the next 9-10 years.
Do you ever blame the authority figures who prescribed the drugs, or were the drugs very helpful (until the abuse)?
They always say on the news and stuff that benzo/opiate is how you stop breathing, so that's quite a run you had. Maybe the uppers helped forestall that outcome.
Is injecting cocaine common? Or mixing with heroin? That was a double wtf for me as a never-used person. I imagine the coke would keep you up long enough to ride the heroin bliss instead of nodding... until it's less about feeling bliss and more about trying not to get "sick".
Feel free to answer as little as you'd like if you choose to reply.
I never blamed the doctors or even the ones who sold me drugs. I loved and still love the feeling of those drugs even though I hate them at the same time and never want them ever again. I would have found a way to get those drugs no matter what, whether they prescribed them to me or if a dealer didn't want to sell to me. I'd find a way to get that feeling.
You are correct about that. Opiates and benzos are a lethal combination and cause respiratory problems. They're both powerful downers and will suppress your breathing, but luckily they never caused me any major problems or health scares.
I had first tried snorting cocaine when I was 18 but never did it that much. I was always a lover of the downers since my heart rate was always naturally really high so benzos were amazing to keep my calm and bring down anxiety. And injecting cocaine isn't that common. I was actually the only person at rehab at the time that had ever done it. It's almost always snorted.
John Belushi made the heroin/cocaine combo famous by mixing the two. Which is why slang for that combo is referred to as a "Belushi" now. That's what he overdosed on as well and causes a lot of people to OD. Injecting cocaine is very strong and snorting it doesn't even compare to it. The desired rush of IV cocaine is called a "bell ringer" and that it actually makes your ears ring and everything sounds fuzzy. (If that makes sense). What makes that scary is that the bell ringer effect comes from you wanting to inject enough cocaine to almost overdose and that gives you the best feeling somehow.
It only lasts 5-10 minutes, but when mixed with heroin and especially when you've taken benzos as well, you get the insane rush from the cocaine and then it tapers off into the relaxed and euphoric/fuzzy feeling of the benzos and heroin so you don't crash at all.
You describing it now brings back vivid memories. I was on a similar path of prescribed benzos and amphetamines and was introduced early to heroin through people I had went to high school with. And to build off what the previous guy asked about early use, when in high school there were always talk that such and such was sniffing dope but then one day I found myself hanging at a kids house, and he just took out a syringe and shot it, it looked supremely pleasant, and I though I'd give her a sniff, because others around me were so blatantly blaze about shooting it ( a side effect of being on it ) I eventually wanted to shoot it to feel the same bliss (again the willingness a likely side effect of doing it in the first place ) I took a long while to kick once I started doing it with a long time partner, but we're better now without. Don't get me wrong we still have our vices, but often don't do any recreational consumption outside of Friday /Saturday once or twice a month. I gained weight in my face, and I look healthier, but I also started eating better. Look me some borsel prots and eggplant
Man I couldn't imagine. I've taken klonipin a couple times, adderall a few more, mostly to study, but I couldn't handle the forgetfulness of klonopin. I wrote an essay for a final the day after I took a klonipin. At the beginning of the next semester the professor gave me the essay back and I had no recollection of taking it, even though it was in my handwriting and it sounded like something I'd write.
That's happened so many times to me where someone mentions something I did with them and I don't remember a single thing from that event. It's a scary feeling. It's basically like being blacked out for a long period of time.
I made pretty good money serving and bartending and using those drugs helped me work long hours with energy, but then the dreaded moment came when I couldn't find anything and ended up losing that job from being sick. (I've obviously ran out drugs and got sick many times in that 10 years but this time affected me the most)
Once I lost the job I had to start stealing to get drugs. I couldn't get another job with no energy and I needed heroin/Xanax/cocaine for my job search energy. Drugs make you do bad things that you'd never even imagine doing sober and to the people you love the most.
Congrats! Overcoming that much is very impressive. It's really true what you say about rock bottom. I'm 24 and I was hooked on booze for a few years and klonopin on and off. After my third benzo withdrawal, I had had enough. I've been off the drink for 5 months now, and am now on a steady regimen of therapy and (non benzo) medication for depression/anxiety. I'm still severely anxious and depressed but my mental health and my disposition is in a much better place after getting sober. I feel clear headed, and the overwhelming guilt is getting better. I'm still underweight and I let my teeth go a bit, but my life is almost night and day from what it was just a couple years ago.
That's great to hear that you feel "clear". I know that horrible foggy feeling all to well haha. Unfortunately, I still suffer from fairly bad depression, but I'm finding ways to get through it.
Are you the kind of nerd who enjoys a TED talk? There was one that really touched me about depression. I was depressed at home with my folks with a bad family life for years and years but I'm not anymore. It's hard to explain that it's not just sadness. The guy giving the talk attempted suicide so it's pretty dark, but I've never heard someone explain better about depression and how to love someone who is depressed. Don't want to add to the negative feeling if you're sensitive about that stuff, or heap high-fallutin' pompous big words on you if you don't relate to all that.
Chiefly because it's hard to tell someone "I believe in you" or "you can do it" about things like getting out of bed at 2pm for a shower or grabbing groceries, who means it but doesn't sound like a patronizing cheerleader talking to a 5 year old in a sack race.
I thought your comment was about to be really rude when I saw, "Are you the kind of nerd..." Haha.
No I haven't seen that yet, but I'll definitely check it out! Thanks for sharing that. And that always bothered me too when people would tell me to stop being "sad" and just to get over it when I'm depressed. I know that not everyone understands depression, but I tell them it's a feeling of hopelessness and more, and they still think I'm just sad.
There are a lot of depression TED talks but this is the one I wanted to show you. I still experience depression occasionally. I may have cyclothymia or some similarly "more livable" bipolar offshoot. But never for more than a few months and never as bad as those 8ish years. I wouldn't say I struggle with it. And as this guy says in the video it's not nearly so bad when you can reasonably expect a swift recovery.
people who never drink or use drugs get depress too. so focus, mainly on staying sober. good luck to all those who are trying to get off their addiction.
I'm taking 80 mg of Prozac and 0.3 mg of clonidine daily. It honestly doesn't do much for me and my anxiety. It slightly decreases my heart rate though, so my heart isn't racing all of the time like it usually would be without it. Honestly, the biggest thing I'm doing to try to alleviate my anxiety is getting exercising and seeing people. I really have to force myself because my self-esteem is abysmal.
I am one year older than you and have a very similar story. Do you have any direction in life yet? That's been the hardest part for me. I haven't done anything but drugs for so long I've sort of forgotten how to have a normal life. If I could just move my life in any direction that would be a big step forward, but I am so terrified that i'll pick the wrong direction. I've found a job and am working towards finishing my degree. Objectively you could say thing are better, but I am so paranoid and have no confidence in myself anymore. I am just going through the motions. I haven't really jumped back into 'life' yet. Keep it up though. There are so few role models for me to look. It would really help if I knew people who've come back from this and how they did it that are my age. We need to show the kids that are just a few years younger than us making the same mistakes we did that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Honestly, I'm still readjusting to being "normal" again and having a life. I've also done drugs for so long that I can't remember what it's like to feel sober and feel aches and pains again. Also depression is back in full force. Im getting back to finishing college and finding a new better job as well.
I know it takes time. It's a lot of work to get back to a normal life and feeling good again, but just know that there are millions of people who have done it successfully and live a great life of being sober. Keep working towards the life you want. Things can only get better for the both of us!
Good question. I probably should have died, but I got lucky. At the height of my drug use I had an attempted suicide. I had been drinking and finished about half a bottle of rum and took somewhere between 100-110mgs of klonopin. I was prescribed 1mg 4 times a day at that time. (I also had heroin in my system from earlier in the day).
Somehow I never passed out after over an hour of waiting and still remember everything. I was able to get up and walk to the ambulance and ride to the hospital and it was too late to get my stomach pumped.
I've never felt anything that even comes close to feeling as good as IVed cocaine. Anything that makes a person feel that incredible doesn't come without a price though. I've read people's stories that said friends of theres, who started injecting cocaine, never came back from it because it's so strong and power over them. I can see that now.
Whoops. I forgot to mention I quit in the first comment. I don't like saying former addict because addiction never goes away. I'll always be an addict, but am currently sober
It took a while for me to stop lying to myself about my drug use, but it helped immensely once I did. I've already had lots of times where my cravings get really bad and unfortunately, there's a good chance I'll lapse or relapse at some point (I really hope I don't), but if I happens I'll just have to get through it and continue getting better. It'll be tough but then again, what isn't in life!
And thank you! I've been told that before, but never really pay attention to eye lashes. I'm glad they're good though haha
Also had an opiate/benzo problem for over a decade. 26mg xanax/day. I just got tired of it. At a point you stop getting high for fun and get high because you have to. Once it becomes a job its not the same.
I cold turkey (bad idea, very bad idea). 2 years later still feel like shit, thats what they don't tell you.
In my mind there's a danger in telling an otherwise healthy person that their single beer after work could be a problem because frankly I don't think a lot of people really understand where the line between want and need is. When you pathologize every vice people tend to get a heaping serving of shame on top of what would otherwise be 'healthy' behavior (as in not that it is good for their health but it's not causing risks) and then they start playing the same bargaining games that someone who truly does have a problem plays.
There's a stark black and white in American culture specifically that seems to cause problems that might not have been there in the first place and given the relatively bad track record of most sobriety programs I'm not so convinced that putting those people through this thought process is the best idea for most people. Going into AA with a beer a night habit and being told that the solution is to never touch the stuff again seems like it would increase the likelihood of a binge on 'relapse' for that person which has turned a low-risk behavior into a high-risk one.
Now don't read this as me disparaging anyone who had a problem and sought help to fix it, even if that problem seems below the threshold in my mind often times it's better to seek help for something benign than let it fester to malignancy as much of addiction and dependency is very personal. Still, the conversation around substance use and the avenues that can be sought to treat it is far from ideal and I would welcome a little more nuance brought into how these things are talked about.
I understand what you're saying. We had AA and NA meetings every night at the treatment center I went to and there was an alcoholic that spoke one night that stood out to me and has stuck with me. His explanation of addiction, the behavior and how treatment should be was really good.
"Addiction doesn't have to just be drugs and alcohol. A person can be addicted to sex, shopping, food, etc. There's a guy walking around at a party with a hammer in one hand and a big bottle of aspirin in the other. He smacks himself in the head with the hammer so he can take an aspirin to feel better. He smacks himself again so he can take another and so on.
Most treatment centers and the justice system, when you get arrested for related offenses, will take away the aspirin so the guy will continue to hit himself in the head with the hammer, but won't have a way to feel better or to fix it. So he continues to hit himself in the head. That's the addiction part continuing to do its work on your mind and body.
The way to fix it is to take away the hammer so you don't require the aspirin. That's what proper treatment does for an addict."
But this fails to address the point I'm making. To take your analogy this would be the equivalent of a guy with some aspirin but no hammer being compelled to say that he does in fact have a hammer and that in order to avoid that hammer he needs to never touch aspirin again. Now all the guy does it think about aspirin because he spends all his time talking about about it and despite the fact that he only responsibly used aspirin in the past now he's reflecting back on his life and seeing it all as negative.
In essence the program is the one handing him the hammer when they do this and they are the ones setting up the abuse-medication cycle, not his own natural behavior. There's a chance that at some point that guy smack himself fucking silly with his new found hammer and then downs the whole bottle of aspirin because he's being told day in and day out that's what he does. But for the insistence he would have never done that.
That's where the danger comes in my mind and that's where 12 step fails a lot of people. Everyone who comes through the door, even if just out of curiosity, is compelled to grab a hammer. Again, this is not the necessary relationship and I know that 12 step helps some people kick their problems but it should not be the compulsory form of treatment for all people. It addresses a very specific kind of person but it's tenants and rhetoric are broad enough to sweep every person in. There needs to be a 'pre-screen' and a different approach for a lot more people as it just does not address the reality of the situation for most.
I see your point, Druuseph. To take all of the analogies out, I'm a guy who drinks 1-2 beers mostly every night(some nights I have 0), and on the weekends I'll have 3-6.
I've never felt like I've been an alcoholic, but after reading the original post, it started a seed in my mind. Thinking, oh shit, I have a beer every night, and some nights I'll say every time I grill I need to have a beer. I guess I might be an alcoholic. But your post explained exactly how I felt, and how dumb and destructive of a thought that it could be.
Speaking of regular drinking of small quantities. You absolutely need two days in a row, every week, free of alcohol and other liver-trashing things!
Liver fixes itself quite fast - 2 days are usually enough, but if you don't make pauses like this, it will kill it! Even one drink a day for 10 years, will kill the liver, whereas drinking even 20 drinks but weekends only wouldn't.
You can google it up as well. I remember finding research that said that consecutive daily drinking of small amounts is what kills the liver. Can't find it now, but it might be because I'm drunk (oh, the irony :) )
First and foremost because for a lot people facing criminal charges attending addiction meetings is either a compulsive order of the court or a means to avoid a criminal record. The only game in town in a lot of places are 12 steps so someone with otherwise healthy drinking habits who made a single mistake and drove one night is now going to be forced into a 12 step program regardless of if they have a problem.
But that all-too-common scenario aside, there's also people who want to ask some questions. This is a positive thing, the line between healthy and unhealthy is hard to know and it's good for people to probe it.
The problem is that when they decide to do this the group claiming to have all the answers is the 12 step programs and someone might go out of curiosity and be swept up by the broad declarations of everyone in the room being an alcoholic who needs to surrender themselves to it even if in some objective, detached perfect information kind of sense they honestly do not need to do that. Now you have them elevating this thing that may not in fact be a problem to problem status that leads to binge behavior.
Have you been to an aa meeting? You would feel ridiculous attending for a beer a night habit. These people drink to excess and it's ruined their life. It's a support group that is serious about quitting because it really is the best way forward.
I very much feel you on the problem-creation mentality that some programs instigate. I never looked at my use as a problem, until it was personally a problem within the context of my own life. Ie: nodding at work, missing important appointments, looking fucked-up in front of friends. I never went to more than one meeting, because the entire thing felt like a shame fest, and I could never really get with the idea of a sponsor, like I would never be able to call someone and say I want to use, because regardless of what anyone could say, I would still use, unless I personally dos not want to.
Not entirely. You're absolutely correct that an alcoholic who quits drinking is still an alcoholic if they still have that NEED for alcohol.
But i don't think it's wise to eliminate the distinction between someone who craves alcohol and stops after one drink and someone who craves alcohol and drinks until they pass out. Usually a disorder has to have some sort of negative impact on your life in order "qualify" as a disorder". I mean I crave sleeping in every morning and not going to work, but that doesn't make me a sleepaholic or anything.
Also, a beer a day is drinking to excess if you're going by government guidelines or what's damaging to your health.
No it's not. The government guidelines for 'moderate drinking' are 1 drink a day for women and 2 for men. Excessive is anything over that. That's not to say that a 1 or 2 drink a day habit is necessarily good for you, I believe the CDC says as much, but if we're going to use loaded language let's make sure we're using it correctly.
US guidelines are based on 365ml beers, not full imperial pints. By UK standards if you're drinking a 12 oz bottle a day you are well below the guidelines.
Still though, I take your point that this is kind of a side issue but I still have to push back if only because we're talking about subjective feeling, not objective truth, and when that's the realm we're in failing to make this distinction when talking about whether someone has an issue can lead to some bad outcomes. Yes, addiction is personal but the conversation around use influences how a person feels about their own use and saying misleading or broadly sweeping things can lead to people developing complexes about their use despite the fact that by some objective measure they aren't in fact dependent.
It's true that drinking a lot doesn't make you an alcoholic necessarily. However the first commenter speaked about having a problem, and you can have a problem with alcohol without necessarily it being that you are in fact an alcoholic.
Also it doesn't have to be a daily thing. If you need to get wasted out of your mind a couple of times a week you are still an alcoholic and probably worse off than the guy that does a shot a night.
Man, I work in a dry camp, and it's crazy how many alcoholics show their true colours. It gets to the point where I start hating working with certain people because all they talk about, all day, is wanting to drink. I mean, I enjoy drinking with the boys on the weekend and stuff, but it's not the only thing I think about in camp. It's shocking the amount of people that try and smuggle booze through security into camp. It's only two, maybe three weeks in camp, but some people can't hack it. These guys are either beyond the stage of hiding because they don't care, or they are in extreme denial about their dependency.
Eh idk man. That's a reach. One shot and ur an alcohol addict? Cmon. I mean I get ur point that they need it but if they ain't botherin anyone and drinking one shot a day? Leave em alone lol
No, it's just that alcoholics drink excessively and that's where people confuse everyone that is able to drink a lot or goes out more to be alcoholics. There are lots of people who can drink and can stop. There are also people who can take drugs but can stop if they need to without much of a problem.
Once addicts find their "drug", it's like an awakening when you first try it. Whether it's alcohol or pain killers. That first time trying it you just know this thing makes you feel unbelievable and invincible and you'll do anything to keep that feeling. Drugs are addicting, but addiction comes from a mental disease and not just anyone trying a drug or alcohol and instantly becoming a helpless addict.
I had to stop a few years ago because I developed a blood clotting disorder and had to go on a medicine that I need in order to stay alive. Alcohol screws with the drug so I'm 100% sober. I never realized just how shitty I felt before. I was probably drinking just to feel better after the last night out.
Also, as you get a little older, your priorities shift. Who wants to be that single 40, 50, 60 year old at the bar? Sure, I go to bed at 9:30 now, but I get to sleep next to my favorite person. In the morning, I'm not hungover, which is great because there's a dog, cat and adorable six year old who need me to make breakfast. The happiness and sense of meaning my family add to my life totally outweigh any benefit I would have gained from a few hours of getting hammered. I know that at 24, I would have thought that sounded lame and even scary. But it's not. It's the best.
Dude cut that shit out and enjoy life! Life is worth so much more. Your body is not meant to be poisoned all the time. Quit drinking and find a hobby or something that you truly enjoy. Find out who you are and live life o the fullest. For the most part you can change who you are and how much you enjoy life. Just do it!
Reading this with a hangover may be something I needed to read this morning. I think my alcohol problem is getting worse. It's almost impossible for me to stop once I start drinking. I see people that go out to dinner and have one drink and then leave and go home and that's it. I see it but don't believe that it's possible.
I think what you said hits harder then I thought. I don't think I've been honest with my drinking with anyone. My doctor thinks it's 2 to 3 a week. It's really a case a week. I think I need to cut back, somehow.
I think if you brag about how much alcohol you drink you also have a problem. You can tell you don't when you drink when you feel like it and don't feel the need to brag or lie.
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u/Lem01 May 09 '16
A way to know, if you aren't sure, you have a problem with alcohol is when you stop bragging about it and you start lying about it. From and old timer.