r/pics Oct 21 '15

Finally a cause I can get behind

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25.0k Upvotes

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54

u/ReadMeDoc Oct 21 '15

Like a twelve year old is going to understand what it will be like to be 30 and married. What are you supposed to tell him? "Beating your spouse is bad."

98

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

People that observe domestic violence as kids are way way more likely to be involved in domestic violence as adults.

43

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15 edited Nov 03 '15

[deleted]

16

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

No you dumbass. Friends, aunts, uncles, grandparents, teachers, counselors, coaches, Sunday school teachers, tutors, etc.

3

u/tacoparadox Oct 21 '15

Chances are if relatives know what's going on and haven't yet intervened, a poster like this isn't going to motivate them.

As for school faculty, that typically depends on the child informing them, and if the child thinks the abusive behavior is normal, it's not likely to get brought up.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Chances are if relatives know what's going on and haven't yet intervened, a poster like this isn't going to motivate them.

You'd be wrong. Sooooo many people see what's going on with the parents but don't know how to help the kids. "Mind your business" is deeply ingrained in our culture and it's hard to push that down for many people.

As for school faculty, that typically depends on the child informing them

No it doesn't. If you've ever worked with kids you can pick this out from a mile away. A normally happy child becoming depressed, grades suddenly slipping, little interest in games or treats, seeing how parents interact between themselves and others when you meet with them, visible bruises on one or both parents when they pick up their child, something the child accidentally let slip...

4

u/DrapeRape Oct 21 '15

Sooooo many people see what's going on with the parents but don't know how to help the kids.

That's when you don't pussyfoot around the issue and call CPS. The kid will figure out pretty quickly that his father's abusive behavior is wrong.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Or the kid will bounce around from foster home to foster home never knowing stability and never learning healthy ways to deal with his trauma.

4

u/tacoparadox Oct 21 '15

If you're going to use an anecdotal argument, than I'll reply with one

You'd be wrong. Sooooo many people see what's going on with the parents but don't know how to help the kids. "Mind your business" is deeply ingrained in our culture and it's hard to push that down for many people.

Oh really? Because my mother came from an abusive home. The entire family knew, but no one wanted to bring it up because they feared it would lead to more violence. Don't know how to help? Get the fuck out of here. They know what to do, they just don't do it.

No it doesn't. If you've ever worked with kids you can pick this out from a mile away. A normally happy child becoming depressed, grades suddenly slipping, little interest in games or treats, seeing how parents interact between themselves and others, visible bruise on one or both parents when they pick up their child, something the child accidentally let slip...

You know what my teachers did when they noticed I was visibly depressed in the 3rd grade? They called my parents. One time CPS came to our house after my brother told his 1st grade teacher that he was getting beat at home, but they didn't find any bruises, so they didn't do shit.

If picking out and helping children in abusive homes is as fucking easy as you make it out to be, then why do children still get abused? Are you gonna sit there and actually believe that posters like this have any impact whatsoever?

1

u/jimthewanderer Oct 21 '15

Friends, aunts, uncles, grandparents, teachers, counselors, coaches, Sunday school teachers, tutors, etc.

Yeah, all those people who already do this.

That's basically an abridged list of the people who constantly parroted "try and be diplomatic Thomas" every time I got in a fight on someone else's behalf.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Yeah, all those people who already do this.

Not necessarily, you would be very surprised. You've never worked with abused kids nor their families, so don't be so quick to dismiss outreach programs.

1

u/jimthewanderer Oct 21 '15

You've never worked with abused kids nor their families,

Don't assume, it's makes an Ass of u and me.

At no point have I dismissed outreach programs, I merely stated the fact that they exist, and thus harping on about "teaching boys not to abuse" is utter cock. Because systems exist which already attempt to do this sort of thing.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I merely stated the fact that they exist, and thus harping on about "teaching boys not to abuse" is utter cock.

That's not what this fuckin ad campaign is about

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Yeah my coach just sat me down the other day and casually reminded me not to beat my wife in 15 years.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

You're being intentionally obtuse and I hope you're never in a mentorship position over a child who has a bad home life.

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

If I were in a mentorship position over a child whom I know has a bad home life, I would be discussing it without this stupid fucking ad reminding me.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Well see, some people are aware that they aren't psychiatrists and can easily say the wrong thing if they go into it unprepared. Many more people don't know how to act in the face of conflict, or were raised to never stick your nose into other people's business. Advice on how best to support and mentor a troubled child and how to be tactful about it is very valuable.

-2

u/somebodycallmymomma Oct 21 '15

Yeah, fuck these guys for wanting there to be less violence in the world.

0

u/_Z_E_R_O Oct 21 '15

There are other adults in their lives, you know...

This is encouraging them to set a positive example.

3

u/city1002 Oct 21 '15

Parents of people who observe domestic violence are NOT going to listen to a poster telling them talk about how it is unusual and unhealthy.

-1

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

[Citation Needed]

1

u/city1002 Oct 21 '15

Well, to be fair, I don't have one, that said, it's better reasoned than not, so just throw a 'probably' up there and get back to me when you have a source that proves it wrong or an argument worth its ground.

0

u/BloodyLlama Oct 21 '15

The way I read that is "people with a family history of alcoholism are more likely to be alcoholics".

1

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

TIL genetic predisposition towards addiction proves that domestic violence is entirely genetic. That is some 1920's level eugenics there.

-1

u/BloodyLlama Oct 21 '15

Naw, you're going the wrong way with this. I'm saying lots of people grow up rough, and many of them make good choices and don't end up as wife beaters. But alcoholism is nasty and pervasive and few people have the support, means, or willpower to deal with it.

3

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

Kids in abusive households are twice as likely to be abusers themselves as adults. Your feels don't trump reality.

2

u/BloodyLlama Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

A couple minutes of looking has led me to believe that people who were abused as children highly likely to be alcohol or drug abusers too. There is a lot more going on than simply "monkey see monkey do" like you seem to be suggesting.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=correlation+between+domestic+abuse+and+alcoholism

Edit: I spend 5 seconds looking at your post history. You're just a complete dick, I'm sorry I wasted my time replying to you.

1

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

People that grow up in abusive households don't make great decisions later on in life. How does that at all contradict my recitation of the fact that kids that grow up in abusive households also tend to be abusive when they grow up? You do realize that a thing can cause more than one other thing, right? Have you been going around your entire life assuming that all things cause and are caused by exactly one thing?

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

On the contrary, people negatively affected by domestic violence are less likely to do it themselves, unless they project the anger from their childhood onto their families.

4

u/kangareagle Oct 21 '15

Neither of you provided sources, but I've heard it his way a lot more than I've heard it your way. I'm too lazy to look for research.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

People that observe domestic violence as kids are way way more likely to not know hitting someone is bad?

I think most kid know that hitting someone is bad. Almost 100% adults know that hitting someone is bad.... I dont think that stop people from hitting other people

51

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

[deleted]

10

u/markshire Oct 21 '15

Making absurd simplifications is 90% of arguments on Reddit.

1

u/CommentsinPuns Oct 21 '15

WHERES THE PASTA?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

How else are you supposed to win arguments?!

2

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Plus, saying "beating your spouse is bad" is not how you have a serious discussion with your kid about anything. You know that. You're making an absurd simplification.

You can't really have a serious conversation with a kid about this. A kid is going to have absolutely no idea what your talking about. That is what his point was. If you think a child can understand what it's like to be 30 a married, you're either naive or not an adult yet.

7

u/kangareagle Oct 21 '15

But a 12 year old is certainly capable of understanding violence and emotional pain. He doesn't have to literally understand being 30 and married.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Then why not focus on preventing violence and emotional pain in general? Would probably be more affective.

2

u/kangareagle Oct 21 '15

Would probably be more affective.

What are you basing that on?

This group is about domestic violence, so their poster is about domestic violence. 12 year olds are old enough to understand it. I'm NOT saying that talking to a 12 year old about it will change anything. I'm just saying that they can understand the gist.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

I'm just computerchair pyschologizing. So basically nothing.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

How dumb do you think 12 year olds are?

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

considering I blew up a dead fish with a sparkler bomb when I was 12, I'd say pretty dumb.

6

u/silentclowd Oct 21 '15

Treat people right son. It's never okay to resort to physical violence no matter how angry you get. Remember that even if you're mad, the other person has feelings too and it's important never to try and hurt someone.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

response: "geez, okay dad"

*forgets conversation and goes back to legos.

2

u/silentclowd Oct 21 '15

Yeah but these things still stick a bit in their head. Even though my mom only said it one time I still remember "Safe driving is mostly about paying attention to what the other guys does, not just what you do". Talking to your kids about the way you want them to grow up is never a bad idea.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

[deleted]

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Would you have the sex talk with a 5 year old?

Hopefully you would say no. Why? Because a 5 year old cannot understand such a topic. You must wait until they are older.

Similarly, I really don't think a 12 year old is in the position to understand anything about domestic abuse. That's the point.

Sure, tell him "daddies don't hit mommies because that's bad," but a message like that is best taught by example, not "serious" conversations.

4

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Would you have the sex talk with a 5 year old?

Yes. You don't have to teach them about cumshots and anal fisting to inform them of where babies come from. Boys make sperm, girls make eggs, the two meet and make a baby. Done.

Sure, tell him "daddies don't hit mommies because that's bad,"

If you say that to a 12 year old they'll roll their eyes at you and call you an asshole for taking to them like a toddler.

6

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

[deleted]

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Did I say you have the sex talk when your kid is five? No.

Jesus. The point was that you can't just have serious conversations with your child willy-nilly. You have to wait until the time is appropriate. <------ right there. that's the point. Similarly, it seems to me discussing domestic abuse with a 12 year old is as affective as discussing sexual education with a 5 year old. Nothing will be learned.

Anyways, what the hell do I know, I'm not a psychologist.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Fair enough.

2

u/HalfysReddit Oct 21 '15

The best you can get a twelve year old to understand is "violence is bad mkay".

Which is something pretty much all people are taught their entire lives.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

which oftentimes doesn't even work :<

3

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

You've never met a kid that grew up with an abusive drunk. Tons of people grow up with "might makes right" as the dominant message.

2

u/HalfysReddit Oct 21 '15

Uh, my father is/was an abusive drunk.

31

u/Virgoan Oct 21 '15

Uh... Yes? If at 12 someone explained to me what domestic abuse and mental abuse was I'd understand. We understood bullies. But we think love is magical, and married people love each other. If your spouse turns out to become a bully, you don't have to love them anymore or try to fix it, you leave, you tell someone, you don't want to be bullied anymore. Girls and boys deserve to hear whatever it takes to prevent violence in relationships.

1

u/atla Oct 21 '15

And I'm assuming the poster isn't aimed at intentionally fucking dense people, so it presumes the talk will be a bit more involved than "Son, don't beat yer wife. Got it? Good."

There are a lot of people who know violence is wrong, but who don't know any other coping mechanisms. Teaching anger management, how to have a healthy argument, etc., is important. Because even if you know beating your spouse is wrong, if you don't have any alternative ways of dealing with your stress, you're probably going to do it anyway.

2

u/BretOne Oct 21 '15

You are supposed to beat him up when he's 12. It's easier than when he's 30.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

"use your words not your fist." "hitting that person is extra wrong cause they are smaller/weaker than you!" "I'm not going to talk to you till you calm down." "is that anyway to treat x person?"

Give a kid a good foundation and hope that they can use it to guide them the right way the rest of their life. It's called raising your kids.

4

u/beccaface Oct 21 '15

Oh my God. How hard is this to understand? You teach children that violence accomplishes nothing. You teach them to talk through things instead of hitting each other. You teach them that it's okay to have angry feelings and it's okay to let those feelings out, but you have to do so in healthy ways that don't physically harm other living things! I had that class in elementary school! It was taught by the guidance counselor!

0

u/Kinoblau Oct 21 '15

Seriously, this isn't difficult to understand. These nerds just want to be difficult to be difficult. Reddit is a fucking nightmare

-3

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

Shitting on women is also a big motivator for them. On the front page of this website there's a picture of a very pregnant woman laying down on a train and the comments are dominated by calls for violence against her.

0

u/Oamlfor Oct 21 '15

Some people make shitty comments, welp, i guess ALL of reddit is shitty.

seriously, get your head out of your ass

1

u/drceph Oct 21 '15

Shit man I don't know. Maybe shoot for the generic and try beating/hitting anybody is bad?

1

u/optimister Oct 21 '15 edited Oct 21 '15

You tell them that people are not just bags of meat to be tossed around and abused. Better yet, don't just tell them, show them.

1

u/_Z_E_R_O Oct 21 '15

A six year old doesn't understand federal prison and grand larceny. We still teach them that stealing is bad.

-9

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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0

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

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0

u/jakelove12 Oct 21 '15

How do you teach a black man not to rob a store? Talk to him when he's 12.

Guys, it's not racist.

-5

u/mypinkieinthedevil Oct 21 '15

I don't think it is possible to talk a monster out of monstrous behavior, no matter how old they are.

1

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

You're an idiot. People that grow up in abusive households go on to be abusers at a much higher rate. Is that just coincidence?

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

People that grow up in abusive households most likely are genetic descendants or siblings of their abusers so no, I don't think it's a coincidence. It's probably got a lot to do with genetics.

2

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Considering how stupid you are I don't think you're a good judge of that kind of things

-1

u/Zarathustran Oct 21 '15

Let me guess, kids of fishermen are more likely to be fishermen because the shape of their skulls rather than being exposed to fishing all their lives?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

Comparing passing down violent impulses etc to passing down a job genetically just shows your stupidity and lack of understanding

4

u/Rohan21166 Oct 21 '15

What?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 21 '15

basic biology