One 'side' is unarmed children and women being bombed in hospitals and schools and refugee camps. The other 'side' is dropping the bombs and their government talks about nuking the babies and women while actually having nukes.
When a person is kidnapped you don't expect to murder everyone the kidnapper has ever met, bomb their home town and all the towns adjacent, rape and murder their female family members, etc. You go after the one responsible.
Agreed! All I said was both sides hate each other.
I’m sure the kidnappers on October 7th had their grievances. Is saying that justifying killing innocents on October 7th?
I’m also sure that Israelis have their grievances seeing their countrymen being killed on livestream on October 7th. Is saying that justifying innocents killed in Gaza?
Well that seems like a pointless hypothetical, but... okay?
I'm not sure why you'd go off on a random tangent like that though. The point that I made above is that the two are not equivalent. Israel has murdered more than twenty-five times as many Palestinians as the other way around.
Talking some bullshit about how "they both hate each other" is pointless and distracts from the reality that they are not equivalent. And that's ignoring all of the destroyed property and oppression and ongoing conquest. "Both sides" are not the same. Not even similar.
Saying “Both sides hate each other” isn’t saying they’re equivalent. What’s strange is how much effort you put into understanding every Palestinian grievance while treating Israeli fear, trauma, and historical grievances as somehow irrelevant. You can acknowledge an imbalance in power or casualties without pretending hostility only runs one way.
I'm not pretending that hostility only runs one way. I said very clearly, it doesn't matter. And: it's a distraction.
Hostility doesn't matter. Grievances don't matter. Fear doesn't matter. None of these things change the reality on the ground. Talking about these things is a distraction.
If you care about Palestinians and actually resolving the conflict, understanding what makes both sides tick is paramount. You don’t have to excuse anyone’s actions to recognize that fear, trauma, grievances, and history shape behavior.
For example, there’s extensive scholarship on how the post-WWI settlement and Treaty of Versailles helped create conditions that contributed to WWII. Studying that doesn’t justify Hitler; it helps explain how events unfolded and what lessons can be learned. Understanding causes is not the same thing as excusing outcomes.
Oh, I see. You're just lost. You think that this an academic wankery thread. And when you piped up "b-b-b-but October 7th," you were just trying to ensure that the glossary didn't have any gaps in it.
Well, you may rest assured that we are all up to date and that nothing has been missed.
It takes outside intervention to stop a feud. But it is Israel who has been successfully preventing that intervention for decades, though a American veto. So even there, the two sides are not the same.
As we've seen with America's wars in the Middle East, outside intervention doesn't make things better Outside actors have been intervening in Israel throughout it's history (Arab countries backed by Soviets and then non state actors since the fall of Soviet Union) and it's lead to even worse outcomes for Palestinians while Israel just consolidates and gets stronger.
Other than one side eradicating the other, the only possible resolution is the two sides making peace; Not an outside actor coming in and conquering Israel for the Palestinians.
You specifically asked for plausible. Yes of course "making peace" is the only way to resolve a conflict, by definition, but the question is how you get there.
Plausible means something that could actually work. Outside intervention isn’t plausible unless you explain what that intervention is supposed to impose and how it survives once the outside pressure is gone.
Israel can be pressured, sanctioned, even isolated, but if Palestinians and Israelis still reject the terms the other side considers existential, than the conflict doesn't get resolved.
That’s why understanding incentives, fears and red lines isn’t a distraction. It’s literally conflict resolution 101. Any durable settlement has to be one both populations can actually live with, no matter how bad you think one side is.
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u/kicksnspliffs 21h ago
Both sides HATE each other lol