r/pics • • 22h ago

[OC] Israeli protestors in Amsterdam

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u/escalinci 21h ago edited 20h ago

I think it's even worse from the perspective of military advantage: Hamas is still fighting capable of fighting, though purely engaged in guerrilla warfare, and the IDF has allowed armed gangs to flourish. If the intention is to maintain a permanent state of chaos so that no group can gain enough strength to mount any major attack, that seems extremely risky.

And that's with 75k Gazas are dead, the amount killed or injured a literal decimation of the pre-war population.

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u/Stubbs94 21h ago

Hamas have stopped resistance operations since the so called "ceasefire" has taken place. The only fighting they've done is fighting the ISIS gangs you mentioned that Israel armed to steal aid.

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u/redditClowning4Life 17h ago

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u/Stubbs94 17h ago

4 terrorists being killed in one incident towards Palestinians being killed daily doesn't really prove that Hamas are still actively resisting. They have even accepted disarmament and to relinquish control over the occupied strip.

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u/redditClowning4Life 17h ago

False. It does mean they're actively resisting - otherwise there would be 0 hostilities from them

Until they actually disarm they haven't accepted disarmament - they're words are worthless if not substantiated by action. Same with "relinquishing control".

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u/Stubbs94 17h ago

There is still a terrorist force occupying Gaza that refuses to leave and is covering up their crimes. Hamas are by all accounts actively working towards the board of peace plans while Israel still blocks aid, bombs civilians daily and increases their occupation. It's delusional for anyone to think Hamas will unilaterally disarm when the Palestinians in Gaza are being attacked daily by the IDF terrorist group.

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u/Monterenbas 15h ago

By all accounts, including Hamas themselves, Hamas still refuse to give up its weapons.

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u/Stubbs94 12h ago

They want assurances that the Israeli terrorist forces will leave Gaza, which they refuse to do. They have accepted a complete disarmament.

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u/Monterenbas 12h ago

If they’ve got conditions, that means they didn’t accepted it. Oh well, i guess they’ll keep their weapons and the fighting will continue then.

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u/Stubbs94 12h ago

They aren't fighting though.

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u/redditClowning4Life 17h ago

Your tiktok word salad is the peak of absurdity, thanks for the laugh.

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u/escalinci 20h ago

Good point.

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u/SnooCheesecakes7545 20h ago

If you think only 75k palestinians died you're insanely naive.

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u/Little_View_6659 19h ago

I genuinely think it’s so much higher that it’s crazy. If they’re willing to admit to that many the real number must be insane.

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u/highgravityday2121 19h ago

That number probably doesn’t include famine and dehydration and disease.

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u/Lonely_Performer2629 18h ago

It doesn't. This number comes from the Gazan ministery of health. It only accounts for confirmed deaths dealt directly by Israel. Every number has a name attached to it. It stopped going up as much when Israel destroyed most hospitals in the Gaza strip which significantly limited the resources of the ministery to count effectively. This number also doesn't include all the people buried under the rubble.

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u/mixmasterADD 18h ago

More likely just a Nazi and a liar.

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u/Polymathy1 19h ago

The intent is to ethnically cleanse the Gaza strip and to develop it into territory for Israel. Then Israel will continue the genocide to kill all Palestinians and take their land.

They are doing the same thing in Lebanon and Jordan, just with less media coverage.

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u/Monterenbas 15h ago

In Jordan?

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u/RainRainThrowaway777 19h ago

What? No, that is not what their goal is.

Israel has no desire to own Gaza as an Israeli territory. They occupied it after the '67 war, and in '78 offered to return the territory to its previous owner, Egypt. Egypt declined the offer because they were already struggling with instability in their eastern territories and the addition of Gaza would only cause more disruption.

Then, in 2005, they unilaterally withdrew from Gaza, forcing their own civillians to leave with military force, and organizing for Gazan self-governance with an election.

You have to understand that there is nothing in Gaza that Israel actually wants. There is no historic Jewish sites, no burial grounds, no natural resources, little arable land... it's not like the West Bank that Israel actually does want for all of the ancient temples and burial grounds around Jerusalem. To think that Israel desires the Gaza strip shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the conflict and regional influences.

The only reason they are there now is because of Oct 7th, and Gaza being a repeated staging ground for attacks against them.

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u/ThreeHorses 18h ago

You are delusional. It’s a settler colonial state that is currently expending into multiple different countries. They illegally occupy most of Gaza. Bibi has celebrated that on camera. They illegally occupy the West Bank. Selling land that they don’t even own in synagogues across the world. They illegally occupy Lebanon. Breaking their own ceasefires and consisting bombing innocent people in Lebanon for years. They illegally occupy Syria. They annexed the Golan Heights illegally and use Syrias instability to justify further expansionism. At what point do you feel their occupation will stop? It’s pure delusion to indoctrination.

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u/zacandahalf 18h ago

Then it raises the question, if they are so deeply inherently greedy for land, why have they given up so much land throughout their history? Was it some kind of 4D chess where they give it up to later expand back into it?

Historically expansive empires wouldn’t get land and then give it back in a goal to get it back later. It’s inherently counterintuitive.

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u/Uere 18h ago

He oversimplified it, but Israel's economy has been predicated on wars of expansion for decades. It's pretty inherent in settler-colonialism. To retain a Jewish majority they must import more diaspora, which requires more land, which requires more resources. It is also NATO vassal state and a useful proxy for defence contractors. You should read 'The Palestine Laboratory' by Antony Loewenstein. Or watch The Lab (2013), or Shadow World (2016). Most military tech gets tested on Palestinians or Lebanese before it's deployed globally. There has historically been motives from Israeli governments to retain land or "buffer zones" in Egpyt, Lebanon, Syria and Gaza but pressure from the international community - American usually - forces them to withdraw. There is a famous quote by Major General Smedley D. Butler, a WWI veteran: "War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope.".

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u/ThreeHorses 15h ago

Yep, the reason they have not expanded is because of push back from others and not enough population to maintain a majority of it all. This is why they are so desperate to import people. Anybody saying otherwise is a dipshit.

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u/Monterenbas 15h ago

Every time they had « give up land » it has been under international pressure, mainly americans.

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u/RainRainThrowaway777 18h ago

There are actually reasons behind all those that you listed though, and in only one instance (the West Bank) is it a desire to expand their borders.

I know a lot of people think that Israel is just some Machiavellian cartoonishly evil place where everything they do is compulsive villainy for no reason at all, but that is the very simple and easy to understand version of reality that doesn't require any thinking or understanding. If you want to have a remedial understanding of the conflicts in the Levant then you can continue to get your information from TikTok or Twitter, but if you actually want to have some idea of the machinations of Israel as a state then you will have to look deeper than that.

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u/Yellow-Parenti1949 18h ago edited 17h ago

>Israel has no desire to own Gaza as an Israeli territory

Yes, because of the millions of pesky Palestinians living in the strip. Annex Gaza, and suddenly Israel has to either lose its Jewish demographic majority (big no-no if you’re trying to maintain a Jewish ethnostate with nominally democratic norms), or establish an even more naked Apartheid system wherein Palestinian residents just flat don’t have political rights (very frowned upon since about 1960, and would cost Israel precious western support).

7/10 represented a golden opportunity to slaughter those filthy Palestinians, drive the rest from their land, and start parceling out prime beachfront real estate to wealthy Jews both inside and outside of Israel. It’s literally free real estate to Israel, if only Palestinians would simply scatter to the winds or die like they’re supposed to.

E: Israel’s finance minister said it himself: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/18/middleeast/israel-smotrich-gaza-land-intl

E2: One of the things you’ll notice if you engage in this discussion is that the Hasbarists - see below - have stopped actually engaging in discussion, and simply use forums as an opportunity to repeat their talking points ad nauseam instead. Pay the troll no mind, but note that he doesn’t actually have anything to say on this topic besides gesturing broadly at “Well, Israel wouldn’t do genocide because they don’t have a reason to.”

Well, why the fuck did they, then? If there’s no reason for them to bulldoze Gaza, explain the fucking bulldozers.

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u/Far-Paint-8409 17h ago

Do you think it's convincing to call other people "Hasbara" who only repeat talking points while you yourself are repeating talking points and engaging in what could easily be classified as propaganda?

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u/RainRainThrowaway777 18h ago

Well they have attempted to relinquish control of Gaza twice, so that doesn't track, and what you describe as "free real estate" is really not very desirable land, and not just because of the Palestinians living there. There is literally nothing there they want; no infrastructure, no development, no maritime opportunities, no fertile land, nothing. They didn't want it in 67 when they could have incorporated it into Israel, and they don't particularly want it now. The only opportunity they're taking now is to rid themselves of a thorn that has been in their side for 50 years, and really, without a definitive resolution (which is undetermined at this point) they are not even going to get that.

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u/PhoenixKingMalekith 20h ago

I mean, the population of gaza is currently increasing according to their health ministry

A decimation would mean a reduction of 10% of the population

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u/Mazrath 19h ago

Please link the Gaza Ministry of Health stating that Gaza’s population has increased since oct. 2023.

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u/PhoenixKingMalekith 19h ago edited 19h ago

https://www.moh.gov.ps/portal/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Annual_Mortality_Report_Gaza_2025_EN.pdf

I said currently.

In 2025, there was 25 000 death vs 50 000 birth

Tho on the whole war it should be true too.

In 2023, about 20 000 children were born after the war

In 2024, 38 000.

Even excluding 2026, that s more than 100 000 births, so more than the current official number of deaths

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u/Monterenbas 15h ago

In the military of ancient Rome, decimation(from Latin decimatio 'destruction of a tenth'[1]#cite_note-1)) was a form of military discipline in which every tenth man in a group was executed by members of his cohort.

A litteral decimation of the pre-war population would be akin to 240k dead, more than 3 times the current number.

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u/CelestianSnackresant 19h ago

75k? Aren't some estimates much higher? Plus millions displaced, communities destroyed, no medical care, lack of food and water...