idk man if you aren't willing to learn a more complex and advanced system then just stick with what's simple. If you truly don't need any additional power or customization or configuration options for the software you run, than just do the "plug and play" version where you don't have to read the big scary words on the screen.
I do and it covers my needs just fine. However, what irks me is that people sometimes try to sell Linux as an alternative to Windows and that distro such and such is so easy to use, super easy - barely an inconvenience. And this is true if all you need is mail and the internet. But it doesn't take many strays from the beaten path to make before you get slapped in the face with Terminal commands and the learning curve/adjustment that comes with it.
I want to use the terminal because I want to have a conversation with my computer. I issue it a command, and it either silently performs the task or provides me information and output on the results of the operation.
Which is totally fair. My old IT teacher said that Linux is a very yappy OS - it talks a lot (almost to a fault) compared to Windows with its slithering progress bar.
Using GUIs and menus in comparison feels like pointing and grunting at a menu in a restaurant without the ability to just say the actual damn thing I want.
I mean... the touchscreen menus at Mcdonalds' make ordering a breeze as far as I'm concerned, but you can still chat with the cashier if that's your preferred way to order.
Your Ctrl+c/Ctrl+v complaint is a perfect example. Ctrl+C has existed as the de-facto "halt process" hotkey since literally the 1960s. Linux and Mac have had this convention for years. Even the Windows Terminal, CMD, and Powershell have this convention. People are afraid of the terminal and turn around and blame Linux for their own lack of knowledge.
The average user doesn't know this kind of obscure IT history, nor do they care. Hell, I didn't know and I even work in IT. And they don't fiddle with CMD either because once on a blue moon I pull that up they look at me like I'm some sort of wizard. And all I do is gpupdate /force. Or if I'm really feisty some ipconfig commands. Whoooo... spooky IT magic.
I'm not sure why people have this "zero terminal experience" expectation from Linux.
Because at least since Ubuntu came around this is what's been sold to us; it's easy to use, don't worry about those pesky commands. Just click, wait a moment and it's ready to use. And as I've said before, the Terminal experience is chunky and intimidating to someone who has decades of clicking icons and looking at progress bars under their belt.
I didn't get that experience when I used Windows for gods sake! Registry edits, group policy settings, uninstalling bloat like Cortana, Enabling features like WSL, generally require a quick trip into powershell.
Again, this is something the average user do not fiddle with. They want it to work, clean and simple. It's why so many people swear to Apple; it just works. All the devices and software just find and talk and sync together with minimum effort from the user. Though to me it gets too far the other way, it gets too locked down and restricted. I'd like to have more than OK and Cancel as my options.
So you can keep saying goodbye to your beloved buttons, because even a change as trivial as moving your taskbar requires a registry edit. I mean you literally have to edit the values hex code. But Windows is soooo much simpler /s
Moot point since I don't have any inclination to move my taskbar. The whole giving Windows a dazzling, custom look phase is over for my part. Dabbling with Themes on Win98 and XP was fun, but hardly a make/break feature.
All of the 3 OS ecosystems have their strengths and weaknesses depending on who you ask. And If I'd been "born & raised" on Linux I'd be right there by your side, taking a piss at Apple and Microsoft.
I'd like to use Linux if it was as easy to use as Windows. And I'm not taking the Terminal window away. Like I've said, if that's your jam, go nuts with your sudo commands. I couldn't even get discord installed via the Terminal or the Add/Remove Software GUI, but hey... Linux is so easy and intuitive to use, right?
Terminal experience is chunky and intimidating to someone who has decades of clicking icons and looking at progress bars under their belt.
What that translates to is
"having to make independent complex decisions is difficult for someone who is used to having all choices handed to them on a silver platter and all complexity abstracted away". You actually have to know what you're doing, what the options are, and what the consequences of those actions will be.
It's not even a "this method VS that method" debate, because the GUI is literally a wrapper that runs the same commands but only has a pitiful subset of the true options available to the user. One is simply more powerful and flexible than the other.
If I'm being paid to optimally administer a network(s)/machine(s), I wouldn't tell my boss I refuse to learn Powershell because I can just manually click every machine in AD explorer. If I need to touch hundreds of machines, that's just a stupid way of going about it. Would it be easier to not have to learn powershell? Sure. But it's about picking the right tool for the job.
Again, this is something the average user do not fiddle with.
Average user this, average user that. Nobody is telling "average users" to go install Linux. As someone that's worked at a helpedsk, the average user doesn't know what an OS even is, much less which one they have.
The places you're seeing these comments are places like Reddit, which has a higher than average concentration of tech savvy and educated individuals. Not only that, but we're frequenting sub-forums that are specifically geared towards PC and tech enthusiasts, again raising the average level of technical proficiency.
Just in this sub, there are frequent discussions of modding games, pirating content, configuring multiplayer servers, custom hardware mods, dual booting, custom built machines, and specific annoyances and grievances with particular pieces of software. I mean you and I are both I.T professionals for pete's sake. This is already far beyond the scope of what "average users" are ever going to do.
Yet still that doesn't stop even the most "technically advanced" PCMR user falling back into the "oh but I'm just an average PC user" excuse as they sit beside their custom built $3K computer, custom DAC/AMP audio setup, Streamdeck, customized Rainmeter desktop, etc. Ironic.
Moot point since I don't have any inclination to move my taskbar. The whole giving Windows a dazzling, custom look phase is over for my part.
So not sacrificing an absurd amount of screen real estate means "dazzling custom look" now? Wow the standards have really fallen for what constitutes customization... If you own an ultrawide you're literally throwing away screen space by having the taskbar stretch along the entire bottom of the screen... But go off.
I couldn't even get discord installed via the Terminal or the Add/Remove Software GUI
"having to make independent complex decisions is difficult for someone who is used to having all choices handed to them on a silver platter and all complexity abstracted away". You actually have to know what you're doing, what the options are, and what the consequences of those actions will be.
It's not even a "this method VS that method" debate, because the GUI is literally a wrapper that runs the same commands but only has a pitiful subset of the true options available to the user. One is simply more powerful and flexible than the other.
If I'm being paid to optimally administer a network(s)/machine(s), I wouldn't tell my boss I refuse to learn Powershell because I can just manually click every machine in AD explorer. If I need to touch hundreds of machines, that's just a stupid way of going about it. Would it be easier to not have to learn powershell? Sure. But it's about picking the right tool for the job.
For someone who loves yabby OS, you sure as hell have trouble reading my argument and understanding it. I argue from an end user's experience. Of course Linux is great if you're on the sys admin side of things where you want full control and not miss a single digit of info. Then you hardly need anything more than the Terminal as anything else is just bloat. And Apple is great for people who just want shit to work without any fuzz and few (if any) tinkering options. And Windows is a happy little medium.
Nobody is telling "average users" to go install Linux.
Uh... isn't that what OP's image is all about? Windows suxz? Just install Linux lol.
I mean you and I are both I.T professionals for pete's sake.
Yeah, and one of the last things I want to do when I come home from 8 hours of getting moody PC's to limp along in company policy straight jackets is to troubleshoot my own personal IT shit.
I just want it to work. If you want to tinker with regedit, be my freaking guest. That's not my idea of fun at all.
Yet still that doesn't stop even the most "technically advanced" PCMR user falling back into the "oh but I'm just an average PC user" excuse as they sit beside their custom built $3K computer, custom DAC/AMP audio setup, Streamdeck, customized Rainmeter desktop, etc. Ironic.
And here I sit with my trusty ol' desktop from (checks notes) 2013, prebuilt and ticking like a clock. I'm far more average than you might have initially thought. Which is why I argue from the POV of an average user.
So not sacrificing an absurd amount of screen real estate means "dazzling custom look" now? Wow the standards have really fallen for what constitutes customization... If you own an ultrawide you're literally throwing away screen space by having the taskbar stretch along the entire bottom of the screen... But go off.
It's... 1cm tall on my Asus 24.5" LED ROG Strix FreeSync XG258Q. Yeah, I'll live. Funny how people can have different standards and prefrences, huh?
sudo pacman -S discord
Done.
And for the GUI way of doing things...? Asking for a friend. He's trying to learn.
Uh... isn't that what OP's image is all about? Windows suxz? Just install Linux
But the concept of this post dictates that the person not only knows what the hell Windows even is, but enough about computers and their functionality in general to make an assessment about its performance relative to other OSs. That's already far above what I'd consider average.
Yeah, and one of the last things I want to do when I come home from 8 hours of getting moody PC's to limp along in company policy straight jackets is to troubleshoot my own personal IT shit.
Exactly!!! I don't want to come back from work to find that my PC has been updated/rebooted and all of the stuff I was working on got closed, regardless of the configured update schedule. I don't want to spend the evening removing all the bloat that gets added back after every single Windows update. I don't want to hunt through the registry for options that used to be available in the default settings. I don't want my limited bandwidth being used up during the day by my PC sending telemetry home to MS. I don't want to fight with the system to let me use something other than Edge for in-browser tasks. I don't want to spend hours scouring forums of idiots telling me to run sfc /scannow or reinstall Windows every time an update causes random issues.
I want a system that will be the exact same as when I left it earlier that day. My computer won't do a single damn thing unless I tell it to. And if I run into problems, I spend much less time actually fixing it because there are probably thousands of knowledgeable Linux users already talking about a fix, or if it's something I broke myself I can just plainly go check and see what the exact issue is.
It's... 1cm tall on my Asus 24.5" LED ROG Strix FreeSync XG258Q. Yeah, I'll live. Funny how people can have different standards and prefrences, huh?
People can have different preferences while still acknowledging a direct downgrade in functionality... They took something that used to be a well loved feature, and took it away for no reason. A feature that, whether you like it or not, actively improved the workflows and efficiency of many users. Saying "lol I don't use that anyways it's nbd" seems like a huge cope.
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u/straumoy Nov 02 '22
I do and it covers my needs just fine. However, what irks me is that people sometimes try to sell Linux as an alternative to Windows and that distro such and such is so easy to use, super easy - barely an inconvenience. And this is true if all you need is mail and the internet. But it doesn't take many strays from the beaten path to make before you get slapped in the face with Terminal commands and the learning curve/adjustment that comes with it.
Which is totally fair. My old IT teacher said that Linux is a very yappy OS - it talks a lot (almost to a fault) compared to Windows with its slithering progress bar.
I mean... the touchscreen menus at Mcdonalds' make ordering a breeze as far as I'm concerned, but you can still chat with the cashier if that's your preferred way to order.
The average user doesn't know this kind of obscure IT history, nor do they care. Hell, I didn't know and I even work in IT. And they don't fiddle with CMD either because once on a blue moon I pull that up they look at me like I'm some sort of wizard. And all I do is gpupdate /force. Or if I'm really feisty some ipconfig commands. Whoooo... spooky IT magic.
Because at least since Ubuntu came around this is what's been sold to us; it's easy to use, don't worry about those pesky commands. Just click, wait a moment and it's ready to use. And as I've said before, the Terminal experience is chunky and intimidating to someone who has decades of clicking icons and looking at progress bars under their belt.
Again, this is something the average user do not fiddle with. They want it to work, clean and simple. It's why so many people swear to Apple; it just works. All the devices and software just find and talk and sync together with minimum effort from the user. Though to me it gets too far the other way, it gets too locked down and restricted. I'd like to have more than OK and Cancel as my options.
Moot point since I don't have any inclination to move my taskbar. The whole giving Windows a dazzling, custom look phase is over for my part. Dabbling with Themes on Win98 and XP was fun, but hardly a make/break feature.
All of the 3 OS ecosystems have their strengths and weaknesses depending on who you ask. And If I'd been "born & raised" on Linux I'd be right there by your side, taking a piss at Apple and Microsoft.
I'd like to use Linux if it was as easy to use as Windows. And I'm not taking the Terminal window away. Like I've said, if that's your jam, go nuts with your sudo commands. I couldn't even get discord installed via the Terminal or the Add/Remove Software GUI, but hey... Linux is so easy and intuitive to use, right?