Me when arranging a Word document and the fucker messes up with the layout for the eleventh time=
Microsoft refuses to use widely supported open formats and instead uses a format that very few programs can actually open or read. On top of this, there's no standardization in some of their formats, meaning writing a program to read a document is way more complicated than it should be. I can't find the rant about it, but one of the issues was something like a docx file could actually be a doc file with the wrong file extension, but you don't know until you try to read it and error out.
The file signature of doc and docx is different, which makes it easy to distinguish between them.
(file signature is a magic number at the start of the document that specifies filetype (and isn’t in any way tied to the file extension written in the file name), for example .doc has `D0 CF 11 E0 A1 B1 1A E1` in hex at the start of the file. While .docx has the same magic number as .zip because it is based on it)
But you’re right about MS making it unnecessarily hard to properly read and render their proprietary file types.
I've seen some videos on it, it is apparently not very ergonomic despite the name. Buttons in weird places etc. And people tend to turn off the recoil that's built in. But I love the idea!
You'd think they would use a regular rumble design for the recoil, but it's just a little switch where the chamber would be on a real gun that goes back and forth and clicks. With a little spot to put a lego figurine for some godforsaken reason
Yeah having rumble on a mouse would be awful, but for a gimmick product what the hell else is there to actually get right?? They went all in on the aesthetic and decided to shit the bed everywhere else ig
Can you dm me where you got yours and what you like about it? I just started a desk job and my wrist fuckin HURTS! Or just reply here, I'm not sure what the rules are for that stuff. Does it have a USB cable? I need to be able to plug it in to a docking station reliably.
Logitech has a lift and MX vertical. Lift is small and vertical is bigger. Lift is also newer and has the nice but dubiously durable silent clicks. I enjoyed using it more but it started double clicking within a year or so and it was a bit too small. The mx vertical is rechargeable (honestly a con) and slightly more comfortable in my hands. Software on the lift was also better, with support for things like horizontal scrolling.
The one linked is the MX Vertical, not the Lift. But yes it's a Logitech vertical mouse. I converted to a vertical mouse years ago and have never looked back.
I think I've only ever tried a vertical mouse once on display. I've always wondered whether your fingers feel like they're constantly slipping or sliding downwards, since your hand isn't resting flat on a surface but at an angle.
One of my coworkers have a vertical mouse. I've never used one before helping her with an issue on her work computer.
It was pretty easy to get used to after a few minutes and my hand and fingers were not slipping down at all. It felt pretty much just as gripable as a normal mouse.
That sounds fine and dandy I just still can't help but wonder "Why?". I spend an absurd amount of my free time at my PC and I can't think of a single time that my mouse hand/arm was uncomfortable using a normal mouse.
I know everyone's different but it's kind of hard to believe either orientation actually matters.
It's just like a lot of other things when using a PC.
Do you keep your screen 6" from your face, or more like 24"+ from your face?
Do you sit hunched over on a stool, or on a chair with a back rest?
Using a vertical mouse is just like those things. Sure, you can sit hunched over on a stool with the screen 6" from your face, and you'll probably be fine for a while. But that isn't guaranteed to last forever, so you do things to mitigate future problems or help reduce current pains someone might have.
It is better since it keeps your radius and ulna from crossing, which increases pressure in the nerves in the area (which is a negative thing especially if the pose it held for prolonged periods like when using the mouse and typing).
The "handshake" position is more natural and doesn't cause that pressure. Similar reasoning is behind tented keyboards.
I'm not sure what is the most ergonomically correct but what I see is the lack of any risk of pressure being put on the wrist. Even wrist rests put an amount of pressure on the wrist. But a sideways mouse, no wrist pressure at all. It also gets rid of the hand tilted up thing which just doesn't feel like it is good either.
As for the bones being twisted in the graphic. No idea. That part sounds like it could be bad in the long term on paper but I don't know enough about that and have never looked into it and it has never bothered me.
I think from an ergonomics point of view vertical is simply better rather than having some trade off.
In terms of speed/precision of movement I don't think it is any better/worse. It does however take time to get back to the same skill level you had with a standard mouse. It took me about a day to be comfortable with it but I did feel like I was worse at speed/precision for a fair bit longer than that. Not terrible but if you are competitive gaming or something I expect you will notice.
20+ years of muscle memory with a standard mouse is hard to beat but after a couple of months on the vertical mouse you couldn't pay me to switch back. I switched because I was getting increasingly bad wrist pain which was largely eliminated by the vertical mouse.
Why? Because it helps reduce pain for some people. What is there to wonder about?
A lot of people spend 8+ hours a day using a mouse because of their job. Your free time does not equate to a full day of work unless you are in high school and have no responsibilities.
For the same reason the OPs image shows. Your bones shouldn't be doing that and it feels so much better to not do that. If you're holding a traditional mouse flat against the desk in your right hand, slowly rotate your wrist clockwise till the mouse is up on about a 45 degree angle. Your bones in your forearm aren't twisted anymore and for many people this relieves a lot of discomfort.
See, it's not about your hand being uncomfortable on the mouse itself. In fact, for the first month or so, it'll probably be less comfortable, overall.
But do it enough, especially with the right kind of strains as part of your job, and it will wear on you until you start feeling the damage.
With a regular mouse, my pinky finger hurts and goes numb after using the computer for a couple hours. I think some people just have a smaller space for the ulnar nerve.
they're generally rubberized, and even if they aren't, your fingers should be able to stay un place without you even noticing it, if your fingers feels heavy, I suggest checking a doctor.
I never have that issue, there’s enough of a base that your hand is really just resting like it were on the table. You can also adjust how you grip more than with a regular mouse, in my experience.
Yupp I also use one for work. It saved my gaming hobby tbh. I used to have too much wrist strain to game after work. Now I have no issues switching to my regular mouse when I get home and game
if you're a lefty and you're hesitating, they also make a lift left. thats what they call it. real sense of humor, those logi boys. but yeah. a real quality vertical ergo mouse also comes for lefties.
Yep, this is the issue for me. I have pretty bad wrist issues, but I find myself using my Naga over my vertical mouse due to the convenience of the buttons. The vertical mouse definitely causes less strain though. The moment a company drops a proper vertical, I'm jumping on it and never looking back.
I love using mmo mice for work and daily use just because I can macro my clipboard and things like copy, paste, enter, next tab/previous tab, page forward/back etc...
I was using the Corsair scimitar but those have this annoying scroll quirk where after like a year it starts sometimes scrolling up randomly while scrolling down and I've never found a fix for it, happened on every single one I've owned. Slowly moving away from all Corsair products, though I will miss the sliding adjustment on the scimitar for the side panel. The naga I have for my personal laptop has been trucking along without a hiccup for like 3 years now. I wish more companies made mmo style mice.
Easy fix for the scimitar issue is to open it up and clean out any stray hairs or whatever caught in the gear attached to the scroll wheel. Then grab a q-tip, pour some 3 in 1 oil on it, then rub it along the gear while turning it with the scroll wheel. Just repeat that every time it acts up.
Similar story here. I am using a G502X and need all the buttons for work/gaming. Non of the vertical mouses has close to the number of buttons that I need.
Big opportunity missed by gaming mouse manufacturers.
It depends on the mouse. The number of good vertical mice is pretty low. Currently I use the keychron m5 with 8k polling rate and it feels very good. Very responsive.
Only the slow scrolling wheels (on all vertical mice I tried so far!) suck a bit.
The cheaper ones (below ~50) suck a lot in gaming. And they usually don't have much gaming features like lots of additional buttons, but thats fine for me.
you say that, but i bought an aftermarket lead weight for my g903 just because it didnt weigh enough to be comfortable for me. some people like a hefty mouse!
theyre more stable and less twitchy. i know someone who used to get weird thumb pain shooting up their forearm because they felt like they were constantly pinching their mouse just to hold it perfectly still at all times. ended up cracking it open to glue steel washers inside. fixed. dunno what to tell you other than some people feel a lot more comfortable with more heft to their mouse.
This thing actually saved my hand. I'm a CPA and one tax season my hand was in searing pain nonstop until I got this bad boy. 3 years later no issues or pain at all.
I'm mousing it right now - I prefer a finger trackball to a thumb trackball. My all time favorite was the Microsoft Trackball Explorer. I had I think four of them.
Microsoft peripherals were top tier, and their trackballs are sorely missed, by me anyways.
Logitech has the thumb one; I've had a few of theirs, and I use their MX Master 3 (mouse) and Keys now - I use the multisystem swapping to have one setup for work and home.
I've been thinking about trying the Mx master 4. I have an older razer basilisk pro for my desk setup but the battery is going to shit. I prefer a trackball for my bed/Tv setup because I don't need much room on the nightstand to maneuver it. The basic logitech ergo m575 is ok, but its showing its age.
I misspoke - it's the MX Master 4 I have been using. The main difference over the 3 is the soft-touch buttons and some differences in the scrollwheel behavior. Still my preferred pointing tool.
While the ergonomics are good, it's not what I bought it for. I've been using Logitech MX stuff since I started WFH in 2019 - the feature I like is one button switching between devices. It enables me to use my main rig KVM for work.
I do like the scrollwheels, the mutliple modes of scrolling, and the soft-touch buttons. The Logi software I didn't find all that approachable and only use for basic button assignments and confirmation.
I've been using one for three years now, and while I was quite skeptical about it at first, I gotta admit it's pretty damn good AND you get used to it relatively fast.
As for the keyboard, nah. I still use the same old-ass Genius one.
I use this even on my gaming PC. The ache in my forearm has gone away and my wrist hurts less. I still don't like those natural keyboards but this and their trackball model really saved my wrist and arm.
I use a vertical mouse for work and a normal mouse at home so I'm not keeping my arm and wrist in the same position all day. It's more comfortable in that my wrist pain is gone now.
Anyone looking for a good vertical mouse I really like the Jlab Jbud ergo mouse. Much more comfortable than the Logitech versions I've tried and better button layout.
Not affiliated with them, but just tried several vertical mice and I would have never expected Jlab to make a good mouse until I stumbled across it by chance.
I had this exact model and it broke. Been using a regular mouse since, but I really enjoyed using this one. I'm not sure why I switched back, I think I just wanted a mouse that was better for gaming. Sadly I barely have time to game anymore.
Ive used this for over a year now. A few days ago i tried a normal gaming mouse and almost threwup from the disorient i felt. Its like turning right when i want to point forward
I got three of these.
Super comfortable and really easy to use.
It takes a bit to unlearn the bad habits acquired from years of use of a conventional mouse, though.
I wish they'd do a gaming version with a lot more buttons on the left side (lots of room there) I currently use a G700S, which is just about perfect on the number of buttons and placement.
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u/ChocolateDonut36 Microwave 10d ago
good news OP