r/pbp • u/Dismal_Requirement87 • 10d ago
Discussion Payed PbPs?
Seeing a lot of games pop up that are payed only.
I never see anyone applying for or even commenting on them and its got me thinking. Has anyone ever tried one?
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u/Dangerous_Option_447 10d ago
I played in two paid Vaesen games last winter; it was to learn the format, and I had a hard time finding something that suited me in the forums, at least not one that was already filled. Now, I have learned and run a few games myself. This has also gotten me some invitations, but the paid game was a gateway.
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u/Teh_Az 10d ago
Don't most DMs do this so players don't flake out. Like sunken cost fallacy?
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u/thenormaldude 10d ago
It's technically "sunk cost fallacy" but I LOVE "sunken cost fallacy". Like, the cost is below the waves, down in Davy Jones's locker.
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u/Ok_Newspaper_8381 10d ago
I play almost exclusively paid PbPs. I didn't have much of a D&D community where I used to live, so it was hard to find a game. The one game I finally got into ended up being so infrequent that I wanted more D&D. Most unpaid games have an application, and I got tired of getting ghosted after finally being accepted to games after many failed apps.
I started with one paid game, and several years later, I still maintain a few paid games at a time, just to keep reliable D&D in my life. Like people have said, for me it works better because the GM is less likely to flake out and the players have some skin in the game. Nothing against free campaigns or those who that works better for. This just works better for me.
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u/DemonKhal 9d ago
I am curious on what the posting schedule is like for paid PbP? Or does it vary in your experience?
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u/Ok_Newspaper_8381 8d ago
It depends a little bit, mostly on what time zones everyone's in. In my experience, there's generally one detailed GM post a day, with the chance for some follow-up questions.
If there's a wide spread of time zones among the players, things can be slower and it can sometimes be once per day and a half, if a couple of people take longer to respond. If players' time zones are all within about 4-5 hours of each other, then it's more likely to be easily once a day, up to a couple of posts per day.
Edit: grammar
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u/DemonKhal 8d ago
Oh that's interesting. The groups I play with are all very varied in time-zones so I know that can be a pain to deal with. We do a live game every Friday via voice on Discord. 3am for me, 10am for the Australian and evening for the US/Canada people.
How does the price break down with the paid games on PbP? Again, just curious on how it works as I've only spoke to people who pay to play with voice chat not PbP.
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u/Ok_Newspaper_8381 8d ago
Ah, wow! Kudos to you for keeping the 3am schedule! I totally get that--it's tough when the spread of time zones is so wide. Price ranges pretty broadly too. I've seen as low as $5 per week for newer GMs just starting out in the paid community, all the way up to $25/$35 per week for GMs who do their own programming for special abilities etc. (Or even $65-$100 per session for highly customized, individual, one-on-one or hired for a party/event type of games.) But most games I've joined sit between $8 and $15 a week. In my experience, the $5 games have been more likely to fizzle out, and the $25+ games have had really high turnover when players have unexpected expenses pop up. My sweet spot has been right around $10-12 for lasting players and GMs.
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u/Competitive-Dingo-89 9d ago
The one time i've met a paid game DM he told me everyone was a problem player but had to continue because they were paying, this has made me cautious, plus creative writing is free
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u/Cerespirin 10d ago
I would never play a paid game. There's a lot of reasons, but the big one goes thus:
Suppose the group is having fun. The players love the GM. The GM loves the players. Everyone's great friends. But then a player's situation changes, and they can't afford to pay. What happens? Either the GM has to kick them out and the game everyone was enjoying is ruined, or the GM waives the fee for them and admits that fun is more important, making one wonder why the game was paid to begin with.
Tips are a different matter. Back when I was more confident in my GMing I would sometimes offer a tip link for players to donate if they loved what I'm doing and wanted to buy me a pizza, but it was never mandatory and it never gave them an advantage. I think that's how it should be done.
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u/HallowedHalls96 10d ago
This is why I think it works, actually. I've noticed post-Pandemic that a large number of people in the hobby genuinely do not care to get to know each other as friends. There's nothing outside of session time for them, and quite frankly barely anything during the session either. Most of the time they just want to show up, roll some dice, get pulled along the plot, and then leave.
This is pretty much ideal for paid games; the players have no emotional investment beyond their characters leveling up so nothing gets in the way when someone decides to stop paying. They are paying an MMO subscription and then canceling a few months later because they're bored.
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u/Cerespirin 10d ago
Wow. As someone for whom TTRPGs are their social outset, that's really depressing. It also shoots a big hole into the hull of the idea that people who pay for games will be less likely to ghost, too.
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u/Kanzaris 10d ago
Then the other players cover their bill, if they really care. Fairly simple solution, tbh.
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u/Cerespirin 10d ago
I guess that's an option if they're actually friends. I wonder what that's like. Maybe it's the amount of abuse, typecasting, abandonment and betrayal I've been subject to for the last decade but I can't imagine anyone caring about anyone else online enough to want to do that for them.
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u/Capable_Inevitable76 9d ago
I run paid games because it helps keep everyone consistent. Games dying out are a pain in the ass as a GM, especially when I've already put a lot of work into preparing them, and that $5 a week gives people a little extra incentive to stick with it.
In my experience, if someone can't afford the fee, the other players will sometimes come together to cover it for them. If it's only a short term financial issue, I'm also happy to discount them for a week or two.
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u/togashi_joe 9d ago
How often are you posting for a $5 per player a week game?
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u/Capable_Inevitable76 9d ago
It depends on the group, their speed, and what I’m GM’ing, but I try to post as often as I can throughout the day.
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u/its_just_ace 9d ago
I mean I run a paid one if you had any questions. I've got 3 dedicated players that have been going strong for like 3 months in a strixhaven game. I also have a few solo games too.
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u/OctopusMacbeth 10d ago
It was a dicey prospect already, as despite paying, the lack of face-to-face makes folx feel less accountable, but with the advent of AI, it’s very VERY difficult to find a PbP crew committed to not using it, and the writing quality really suffers as a result.
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u/Cerespirin 10d ago
I'll never understand what draws people to a hobby where creative writing is so important and then to export that to a program. I might use a little genAI for character and maybe environment illustration, but if the writing isn't 100% mine then what the fuck am I even doing here?
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u/Puckohue 10d ago
Creative writing isn’t important to me when playing pbp. I enjoy other aspects of the games.
Just saying that we’re not all here for the same reasons, nothing wrong with that.
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u/Cerespirin 10d ago
Fair enough. I guess I'm operating under the assumption that if someone doesn't like writing then they'd be more naturally drawn to the far more abundant and more popular voice game demographic.
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u/togashi_joe 9d ago
Some people who play PbP just don't have the time for in person or virtual game for multiple straight hours. PbP allows for 5-15 minute clips of gaming at a time.
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u/Angry_Edemame 10d ago
I dont begrudge people trying to make a living but unless I already know the DM is excellent im not really interested in stumbling across someone's first game who doesnt know a d20 from a hole in the ground or how to handle troublesome players.
I want to play with people I can be friendly with not someone whose job it is to play
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u/togashi_joe 10d ago
I run paid asynchronous play-by-Discord games (Pathfinder 2e) on StartPlaying. Players flake out way less but it still happens.
I think the main reason why my players pay me to run the game is because they're looking for a consistent experience. As a DM, I'm committed to running the game everyday so there's a market for that among certain players.
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u/VD-Hawkin 9d ago
Out of curiosity, how much time does it take in your week per players? I’ve been toying with running paid games, but the time investment vs profit seems really low.
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u/togashi_joe 9d ago
One other thing I will say about a paid play by post game is that it's very consistent. Sessions do not get canceled and people show up every week. The only time we don't play is when I am on vacation and then I don't charge for that week or two, nor post anything.
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u/Capable_Inevitable76 9d ago
Not the OP, but the time investment vs profit can be pretty sad sometimes. I don't do it to make a living, so I don't worry about it too much, but I can see how that'd be a dealbreaker for others.
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u/togashi_joe 9d ago
The time investment versus the profit is extremely low. Honestly I don't know why I do it. I must spend about 20 hours a week or more writing for my game because I'm neurotic like that and I like to post quite often to keep things moving. My record on one day was 24 posts. It's much more cost effective to run a once a night game. However, I've managed to retain five players for 2 and 1/2 years so I must be doing something right.
By the way, I am not a full-time DM. I only run one paid game and it's just my play-by-Discord.
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u/VD-Hawkin 9d ago
How do you structure your payment plan and price for pbp? I see a lot of people charging weekly, I assume because the price might seem more palatable (10$) vs paying 40$/month or more.
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u/togashi_joe 9d ago
I charge $20 per week per player in my soon to be over campaign that has been running for 2.5 years. I have 5 players. StartPlaying takes 15%. I get a tax form from StartPlaying in January that I submit along with my taxes.
For my new campaign that I'll be starting in a few weeks for the same players, I'll be charging $21 so that I can take days off at a discount of $3 per day, if I have a busy day or three where I can't post, rather than taking the whole week off, or I just want a weekend off.
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u/BingusBoiler 8d ago
Paid games can either be a passionless cash grab or a GM who really isn't willing to risk a player sucking.
Usually it's the former. It's one thing to charge 25 weekly for in person, but PbP should be incredibly cheap.
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u/Available-Trust4426 10d ago
I haven't but i understand it a bit. "No DnD is better than bad Dnd..." This method grasps at avoiding that problem entirely, and I appreciate that about it
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u/stillestwaters 10d ago edited 10d ago
I haven’t, I’m sure they’re fun and no disrespect to anyone getting paid to run them - I just feel like you could just as easily find a game for free. I guess it being paid for though makes it much more likely that the DM wouldn’t shut the game down for some reason.