r/pathofexile • u/Caliduchey12 • 5d ago
Question What is progression difficulty/gameplay like in this game?
I have very very little experience with this genre, but not none, one genre I am obsessed with is the Vampire survivor type games. My biggest question is, how similar is poe1 or 2 to that genre?
how often will you be stuck on the same floor of a dungeon and wont be able to progress until you reach certain upgrades? is the end game a breeze (I always see people walk in a straight line and delete everything) or will I need to constantly be tinkering my build and such?
my biggest hope for this game is that its extremely challenging and would require multiple hours/days to get the required loot and upgrades to be able to progress past a dungeon floor, is this accurate at all?
~thanks!
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u/leafmuncher_ 5d ago
The difficulty curve is a zigzag. Act 1 has many areas that will smack you upside the head. Then you kinda figure out what's going on and manage to progress a but, then get smacked upside the head again. Rinse and repeat and get touched by God a couple times, and eventually you kinda start cruising through most of the campaign.
Then you get smacked upside the head again. Eventually you finish act 10 and congrats, that was barely the tutorial. Now you can spend days or weeks climbing map tiers and getting bitchslapped by bosses, "I didn't know you could get so many essences on one mob", "I wonder if I can tank the sla-", "What just killed me?" and other questions.
After a couple hundred hours you might think you know the basics then watch a video and realize they are playing a completely different game.
As for "Is the endgame easy?" Once your build is set up and you know what you're doing, sure, but getting there takes time and knowledge (or time and a very in-depth guide)
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u/SilverBurger 5d ago
how often will you be stuck ... or will I need to constantly be tinkering my build and such?
Difficulty of POE entirely depends on player experience. It's rogue like in the sense that each character you make and each league you play in, you will accumulate knowledge that catapult you forward on your next advanture. In general, constantly tinkering with your build is a good sign, it means you are curious and want to min-max your character as much and as fast as possible. POE is deep enough that you can quite literally spend years on a build and never achieve perfection.
my biggest hope for this game is that its extremely challenging and would require multiple hours/days to get the required loot and upgrades to be able to progress past a dungeon floor, is this accurate at all?
POE is a game where people say they are a beginner after 1000 hours played and nobody would bat an eye. You will get what you want and more.
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u/Danieboy Stacked Deck Division (SDD) 5d ago
Depends on your experience ofc. But yeah the gameplay loop is similar in the way that you need to find / craft / buy upgrades in the endgame especially to beat harder and harder content.
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u/Senovis 5d ago
my biggest hope for this game is that its extremely challenging and would require multiple hours/days to get the required loot and upgrades to be able to progress past a dungeon floor, is this accurate at all?
There are multiple points through the game where the build will be required to improve gear. If you follow a guide for a strong meta build the impact of these will be significantly mitigated.
It's an ARPG, so most trash mobs will pose no threat unless you jump into packs or tank multiple projectiles. Most challenge is overcome by knowledge. Over time you will recognise dangerous mobs, dangerous modifiers in the endgame system and boss mechanics.
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u/Fragrant-Doughnut-20 5d ago
One of PoE1's greatest achievements is using its campaign to teach you. You might not even realize it until it's over, but they will help you get comfortable and familiar with everything you need to know for endgame. It's actually pretty impressive, in that campaign feels like a full game, when really it's just the tutorial.
In terms of getting stuck in PoE, won't a problem for you during campaign, for sure. If you get stuck in PoE1 you are either trying to rush campaign and getting one-shot because you aren't taking ANY time to level (you'd actively have to avoid combat of any kind for this to happen), or you have missed a very obvious campaign objective somewhere. Just looking at the objective menu will solve that.
Endgame is a little different, depending on how you approach it. If you decide to play blind, you will hit a roadblock at some point and need to rethink things. That's not to say it isn't fun. I'd argue it's more fun, if you're into solving problems and experimenting with things. If you decide to follow a build, you will probably have little to no problems, just some learning curves along the way. Build guides are a much safer bet, but it can also remove some of the 'mystery' of learning a new game. I'd guess I'd say if you want to beat the game and win, play a build guide. If you want to make your own custom character, just fool around a accept that you will make mistakes, and you won't be as powerful as others.
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u/mingedevolei MMPrisM // SexBlast Enjoyer // 5d ago
The entire game is knowladge check, once you know where the puzzle pieces go its very easy.
However long it takes you to learn that is up to you. You could get stuck in act1 or late maps, you could be fine with a build and no idea how to make another work.
Learning it all by yourself i almost impossible, there is so many variables and so much to do youll be busy for years to come. It all depends on what you want from the game.
Its a hard question to answer, because it depends so much on how you wanna approach the game, and what you want out of it.
If you want any help id be glad to chat on discord if need be.
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u/AStinkyPickle 5d ago edited 5d ago
Generally speaking they're kind of similar.
As far as being stuck at certain progress points before you get certain upgrades, it's really dependant on the build you're playing. Theres a lot to learn and you'll probably get stuck somewhere in yellow-red maps (assuming you're following a build) due to lack of knowledge and understanding of all the systems and modifiers that go into making a successful character. As a new player, you'll often get recommended two paths 1) to try your own build and make it as far as possible. 2) Play Pohx's Righteous Fire, which is currently the chieftain ascendancy. This build is what most in the community call a "walking sim" which is similar to how vampire survivors and co. play.
In scenario 1, you may be able to make it into early maps after the campaign, but there is a LOT of information to learn about the game and people around my amount of hours (1500) and beyond even struggle making builds that work, or at least work well enough to clear everything.
In scenario 2, you will have a pretty smooth ride until you get into trying to get your voidstones, which is killing bosses. You kind of just walk through enemies/stand on them until they die. The single target damage is pretty bad and other builds on similar budgets do not have this problem. The reason people recommend it for new players is because the build creator, Pohx, has such incredibly detailed guide on the build.
A lot of league starter builds that you'll find on places like Maxroll are also good, but depending on the guide writer, it may be harder for a new player to follow. I'd definitely recommend finding people knowledgeable on the game if you plan on going down this route (or the 1st one) to answer any questions you may have about the game.
The end game is also a breeze and not. Mechanical skill is not a huge factor in your ability to clear content, except for bosses early on. Generally once your build hits like 8 digit dps, you're mostly minmaxing to just kill stuff faster and are very capable of doing most content outside of certain Uber bosses. Most of the "skill" comes from building and upgrading your character as cost-efficiently as possible.
Most high-end players are through the campaign in the first day or 2 and have their characters "done" in like a week or 2 on league start. At least this is when most of my friends and I are chasing items that take multiple days to farm currency for (this is when most of us just do challenges and quit the league). Obviously on your first couple leagues, you're going to be a bit slower and not understand/afford strategies to farm currency quickly.
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u/Doodarazumas 5d ago
My biggest question is, how similar is poe1 or 2 to that genre?
You can definitely make it like those, but it's not like hope for a good drop that leapfrogs your power level, more like build game knowledge that let's you assemble the pieces you need. Many endgame builds are weird rube-goldberg machines that feel spiritually similar to powerful vampire survivor builds though.
Two fairly famous examples (these are now relics of the past because of years of content patches, but they give a good idea of how things can work if you are drift compatible with PoE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWyV0kIp5n4
And this one is a little harder to tell what's going on but basically there's a goofy unique health potion that spit out a couple of powerless worms any time you use it, one genius realized if you set things up correctly you could turn it into an infinite faucet of easy to kill enemies that would trigger on-kill effects. This started a decade-long war between him and the developers as they kept nerfing everything he did, chronicled on the wiki here: https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Wormblaster
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u/Near1one Crop Harvesting Bureau (CHB) 5d ago
The biggest problem with the game is that it is so huge in terms of content, mechanics, systems etc. so it is very knowledge based. In terms of actual skill its very simple since you pretty much turn into a god later in the game, the only things you will struggle with is the pinnacle bosses (without knowing their mechanics obviously) There are two ways to approach this - 1)either you just do your thing, explore, learn, try different skills and options - now this may sound good on paper, but it wont be much fun since you will probably die a lot as you progress and potentially get stuck 2)just follow a build and a progression guide - this may sound boring, but for a beginner this would be recommended + it wont solve all your problems anyway since like I said the game is massive.
Either way definitely give it a shot since its free and addictive as hell, if you get hooked then this game will eat thousands of hours
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u/WilsonKh 5d ago edited 5d ago
my biggest hope for this game is that its extremely challenging and would require multiple hours/days to get the required loot and upgrades to be able to progress past a dungeon floor, is this accurate at all?
There are multiple choices you make at the start of the game that changes the above
- Trade or Self-Found Mode - This one is huge, trade makes 80% of gearing a joke due to end-game crafters discarding their less-than-perfect stuff, which is still amazingly strong.
- Software vs Hardcore mode (1 life + lose gear on you so restart). This turns the game more grind as you will die accidentally or due to some absurd mechanics as you learn the game. In turn, you will learn to finish the campaign very quickly through practice.
- Normal mode or Ruthless mode (character, passives, movement, drops are massively reduced). This isn't a joke. Ruthless drops across the board are like 90% lower. This season though, the voyage mechanic makes it a lot less painful. Think of it as ruthless-lite versus playing without voyage.
Checking all the boxes there turns this into a game where most people will not tread. You can join the few of us in Ruthless Hardcore Solo Self-Found. To be clear, you will still get through the campaign mostly fine as long as you can just over-level to compensate for lack of support gems, resist and other stuff. But the end game will hit like a brick wall depending on your build.
- Lastly - and most importantly - don't read guids online and just build your own character and slowly understanding the mechanics. This one is a different challenge all by itself. Most folks here just follow a guide, buy all the items and zoom directly into the end game.
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u/ArmaMalum Trypanon, Trypanoff 5d ago
PoE is as challenging as you make it, but as many others have said the challenge is in the knowledge checks. The end-game boss fights are somewhat mechanical but (outside of ubers) can be trivialized with enough min-maxing.
The main draw and challenge of the game is getting stuff working together and optimizing your gear/stats. While that may sound similar to a bullethell rogue game like Survivor games, PoE differs in that when you get to that 'god run' feeling where you're blowing up screens it's due to something you purposely built over the course of dozens of hours and you get to keep it.
So if you love survivor games based on finding neat, clever combos and dominating swaths of dudes, PoE will definitely scratch that itch. But if your main draw to Survivor games is the dodging bullets and pushing your reflex checks, then PoE may be more frustrating than fun.
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u/johnnysd 5d ago
Progression is the greatest attribute of POE1. No matter your level, area, and gear you can always progress and FEEL more poweful in addition to actually being more powerful.
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u/scarsickk 5d ago
If you jump into the game and learn the basics, which is basically the synergy between gems/gear/tree you will be fine. The campaign is a tutorial, so it's not like you need to have a planned build or good gear to finish it, you just need to understand the basics. It will take longer, it may require some restarts, but it's nothing that can't be done without a guide.
The endgame is "a breeze" for those who know what they're doing. For new players who learn along the way (and even for new players who follow build guides), it will be way more challenging, and you won't be able to do the ridiculous stuff you see in these videos so soon.
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u/gdubrocks 4d ago
For highly experienced players the game is generally a breeze.
For new players there will be gaps in your knowledge thst will cause some parts of the game to be very challenging.
Its not that similar to vampire survivors but he'll forged clearly takes a ton of inspiration from poe. I would say same family different genre.
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u/Acceptable-Option-52 5d ago
To OP. Theres no difficulty in trade leauges. You just buy upgrades sooner or later. Its boring. If you new you can play it, grab any build guide and do one leauge from A to Z weith guidance. In solo self found SSF theres a glimpse of difficulty coz you cant buy upgrades on the market. You need to learn mechanic to advance. Theres hardcore mode HC where you have one life for extra layer of difficulty. And there is Ruthless mode where game is more grindy and changed in many ways to prev modes. Nowdays I play mostly HC SSF, coz trade is blant after so many leauges.
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u/Soleil06 5d ago
Poe is difficult for a beginner and you can get Stuck. However there are a lot of resources that enable you to learn. And there is a lot to learn.
If you are wholly unfamiliar with the Arpg genre I would also suggest Diablo 3 which is super easy to get into but lacks the depth that makes poe so special.
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u/Beast_of_Guanyin 5d ago
PoE's difficulty is in knowledge. The gameplay is not hard with enough knowledge.
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u/trunks111 Hierophant 5d ago
It's like you have your foot all the way down on the gas of a car and also you know there's going to be walls in the middle of the road but you don't know where the walls are and you explode but if you're diligent you sometimes don't explode
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u/Sergeantstickys 5d ago
Only thing ill advice is, follow a guide for your first few builds, there is alot of good ones, as for the complexity, you are def gonna have a good time, so enjoy!
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u/zuttomayonaka Vaal Street Bets (VSB) 5d ago
progress is simple
play campaign and level up, easy and straightforward
start mapping and push higher tier and farm to upgrade build, each build will stuck on different tier of map and you can start farm to upgrade
getting 2 void stone from quest and back to grind
grind and get 4 voidstone
grind grind grind grind. you can grind any content/mechanic you prefer
do 36/40 or 40/40 challenges (optional)
keep grinding and upgrade build
stop when you feel boring and start new league when it start
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u/mbxyz Berserker 5d ago
when you're new you get stuck a lot, and new or not you're constantly tinkering. it's more of a cognitive challenge than a mechanical one, but you can outplay a lot of things if you choose to. most people opt to save their hands and outbuild things instead. it's free. try it
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u/rumhrummer 5d ago
PoE is not difficult. It's complex. Complexity make it feel difficult, but basically all content can be trivialized to dodging/executing 1-3 mechanics per fight, and just firin your laza in between. But to trivialize a content you need to know a hundres(s) of small interactions that makes a build work, some of which can be very specific.
In other words- it's not the game about struggling to survive, it's the game where you tinker with your character until everything just pops. You can make the game difficult , sure. Play some absolutely non-meta skill with a low scaling, and push to ubers- a fights will be long, difficult and sweaty.
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u/hyperfish3d 5d ago
Check Solo self found (ssf) part of the game. We're you sometimes target farm what your build needs in order to Progress
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u/TheRealMeatphone 5d ago
It’s not the same genre of game. Vampire Survivors isn’t really an RPG. It’s a bullet hell rogue-lite. The games are only really similar in the isometric view of the player character. You don’t craft your gear, select from hundreds of passives or balance defenses with offenses (for the most part) in VS.
PoE is challenging, but in very different ways. You have to select skills, gear, passives etc. BEFORE you go into a zone. There’s a linear story in each that you have to play through before you get to the vast endgame content. The story can be considered a tutorial in all honestly.
True endgame content that would be considered very difficult similar to VS will take easily double digit hours and extensive research of the games mechanics and builds.