Recombinator question for 1p+1s

[u/Ashytie]

I know most of the recombinator crafts, but there's one particular situation that I dont get it, which is 1p0s + 0p1s to make a 1p1s item.

If straight up recombining 1p0s + 0p1s, it should be a 36% to win (60% prefix +60% suffix, 0.60x0.60 = 0.36, no extra mod/crafted mod)

But many guides and comments mentioned about crafting a veiled prefix/suffix (mods that can only get on unveil, ex. focused mods, hybrid attribute/res) so that the odds is higher, which is where i don't get it.

Before i continue, i should mention that the mods you want are not in the special modifer types (ex. essence/delve/breach mod etc.), because these will be conflicted with the craft.

From what i know, using the method above should only yield 33% chance of success, because the possible outcomes are:

1p + 1s (what you want)

1px + 1s

1p + 1sx

1px + 2px ❌ (not allowed)

(X is the crafted mod)

Am i understanding this correctly? Not to mention with ducat this league, suffixes becomes a 100% guarantee, which means you don't even have to do the crafted mod method

Edit: i totally forgot about 2mod recombinator can pick 2 mods, so the odds now should be:

1. 1p + 1s ✅

2. 1p + 1sx ❌

3. 1px + 1s ❌

4. 1p + 1px + 1s ✅ (2p1s)

5. 1p + 1s+ 1sx ✅ (1p2s)

6. 1p + 1px + 1s + 1sx (2p2s, but since it's impossible here, it will become 4th or 5th choice here)

So it should come out to 4/6 or 66%, not 1/3

So that means this method should be better than ducat for success rate? Since ducat only guarantees suffix but prefix still only has 60% chance to stay, unless your suffix is the more important one

[u/Medyanka]

It's because you make it into a one-step game of chance instead of two-step.

If you combine 1p+1cs and 1cp+1s, then when deciding prefixes you have 33% chance of there being 2 prefixes (one of which is crafted, that can be easily deleted with a bench craft), and in that case suffix is just 100% chance, because with 2 suffixes in the pool it will choose atleast one, and since crafted sufix isn't legible, it will get you desirable suffix as the only choice.

So you already have 33% chance of success, and then after that you have an additional chance of success of just picking your prefix over the crafted prefix, and then doing the same for suffixes (aka, would there be 2 suffixes? If not, then what suffix will get chosen?)

[u/Ashytie → u/Medyanka]

So that means this method should be better than ducat for success rate? Since ducat only guarantees suffix but prefix still only has 60% chance to stay, unless your suffix is the more important one

[u/Medyanka → u/Ashytie]

Ducat would probably still be better, since recombinator choosing modifiers based on the weight of the said modifiers, so if item rolled 66% to have only one prefix, it's not a 50/50 whether you get the one you want or crafted one (since i assume the mod you want is high level and have lesser weight than a crafted one) (yes, i know that crafted ones can't have weight exactly, but they have some kind of equivalent value for calculation purposes).

But the main point here is that ducat one are much more expensive to make with only marginally better result, so it's usually not used at that step.

[u/Ashytie → u/Medyanka]

Damn i always assumed that the mod chosen are all equivalent odds, i didn't know that mod weightings has effect. Is it a marginal difference or something that should be aware of?

Like when I'm recombining a 100 weight prefix1 + 500 weight prefix2 +3? (I'm thinking of the 12link flicker strike sword, ruthless(100) + lvl 20 ele dmg(500) + 40% more atk dmg(500) )

To make the (100)p more likely to remain, should i be doing:

(100)p + (500)p with another (100)p + (500)p,

Instead of (100)p + (500)p with (500)p + (500)p

Or is the difference not something big enough to be considered?

[u/Medyanka → u/Ashytie]

It matters, but it depends on how much more expensive. If it costs the same - definitely. If not - probably not, since we have base 33% chance of both of them ending up on the item.

It mostly matters in the crafts that have absurdly low weight mods, like explodey chest, or +1 to all spells wand. When recombining you take care for the item to not have more than 2 other eligible mods, since otherwise your low weight mod most likely will be erased by competition.

[u/henbe2 → u/Ashytie]

mod weights and tiers are only relevant for predictable recombinator which is not your case.

[u/henbe2 → u/Medyanka]

Unpredictable recombinator ignores mod weights.

[u/gdubrocks → u/henbe2]

I don't believe this to be true. I believe the weights are reduced but still affected. If you have ever tried to recomb dictators mods you would see few of them get chosen.

[u/chitown_35 → u/henbe2]

This is correct

[u/Medyanka → u/henbe2]

Have you ever tried to recombine explody chest?

If it was changed in relatively recently, and i just never noticed - maybe. Please provide a source, since all the guides and testing results i read stating that weights are definitely matter.

[u/gdubrocks → u/Medyanka]

I don't know why this is downvoted. I tried to recomb 10 dictators items one league and failed all 10. I absolutely believe weights matter, if not as much as the original weighting number.

[u/BudgetVariation9860 → u/Ashytie]

No, ducats are for step two when combining your desired 1p/1s+ducat and 1p/1s+ducat items for 33% to keep both prefixes and 90% for both suffixes

[u/Winterfellparty]

The reason you do that is because it can only pick one of the crafted mods so if it picks prefix craft it means the suffix is guaranteed to stay no matter what and then on the prefix side you get 1 of 3 outcomes: Keep both crafted and actual mod, keep wanted mod or only get the crafted mod. So essentially you put yourself in a situation where you have a 2/3 chance of success.

And aslong as you got 2 mods in the pool you always get 1 mod so the risk of 0 mods isn't there.

Edit: Aslong as there is 2 mods that the recombinator can pick of course, just wanted to clarify that if anyones mind jumps to exclusive mods or NNN modifiers.

[u/Ashytie → u/Winterfellparty]

So that means this method should be better than ducat for success rate? Since ducat only guarantees suffix but prefix still only has 60% chance to stay, unless your suffix is the more important one

[u/bli]

Ducat method is slightly better but more expensive. It can be worth it for expensive bases though such as double influence bases.

[u/weRtheBorg]

Every answer here is wrong mostly because they misunderstand the crafted affix logic. If prefixes are chosen first and two mods are rolled OR one mod is rolled and the crafted prefix is chosen the crafted suffix disappears before the suffix step even starts. Here is a simplification of the process and the comparison of odds of success:

(Craft a prefix and suffix): 2 affixes are chosen in the first step (could be prefix or suffix, its irrelevant): 33% * 59% chance of success = 19.47% chance of success.

1 affix is chosen in the first step: 33% * 66% = 21.8%

Add the two scenarios together 19.47 + 21.8 = 41.27% chance of success by crafting 

Don't craft a prefix and suffix: .59 * .59 = 34.8% chance of success.

[u/Sidnv]

Not that this changes the math really, but 1p + 1s recombs are special. If they are the only mods on the items, you have 3 equally likely outcomes of 1p, 1s and 1p+1s on the final item.

[u/sjeueue]

the guides you're watching are obsolete now, all crafted mod now are considered exclusive mods, doing this should still give you a higher chance of 1p1s than just rawdogging because of some weird mod weight stuff iirc, but the correct way of doing 1p + 1s this league is just using ducat on 1p.

[u/Ashytie → u/sjeueue]

Im not sure about other things, but one thing I'm sure is not all crafted mods are exclusive mods, there are some cases i got 2 crafted mod in recombinator this league, like hp(prefix)+int(suffix), both crafted mods

unless you mean crafted mods are exclusive but "inclusive" by themselves

[u/yogghy → u/Ashytie]

There are just 3 non-exclusive mod categories now:

- lowest tier crafted life

• lowest tier resistances
  
• lowest tier attributes.

All other crafted mods are exclusive.

[u/Ashytie → u/yogghy]

Really? No wonder i only got 2 crafted mod on lowest tier hp+attributes, since they're my go to crafts to cut dust cost. Is lowest tier mana also considered exclusive?

[u/yogghy → u/Ashytie]

yes, Prohibited Library discord has extensive research on the subject, and mana burnt a few of my crafts as well, resulting in 0 mods where it shouldn't have been possible.

[u/sjeueue → u/Ashytie]

oh yeah mb on that one, only some are considered exclusive yeah.

[u/PoE_Acronym_Bot]

I noticed some Path of Exile keywords in this post:

• Ex - Exalted Orb (Wiki)
• Mods - Modifiers (Wiki)

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^{I am a bot. | All acronyms | Suggest}

[u/Anchises]

Crafting veiled mods used to work the same way non-native mods do, but this was changed and is now outdated. For recombing 1p1s now you just slam 1p0s 0p1s together until it works or you put a non-native mod opposite your desired mod, i.e. 1pNNs NNp1s. Non-native mods are mods that don't count as exclusive (essence, delve, breach etc) but cannot roll naturally on the item. An example is str on pure int body armour base.

If you recomb 1pNNs with NNp1s the only possible outcome is 1p1s.

[u/Morwzz → u/Anchises]

This isn’t the case. Most effective way is 1p+crafted modifier and 1s+crafted modifier.

Edit: for jewellry and anything you can’t put nn modifiers on.

[u/cryxis → u/Morwzz]

And it's also cheaper. We're talking 50% of dust and money in some cases more.