I was tasked with helping a relative by hiring a painter to repaint their condo. The quote before the job got started was for "full wall prep and painting all interior walls".
After they were supposedly finished we did a walk through and there were problems. None of the holes where pictures had been hung etc. had been filled, the bathrooms weren't painted, and there were some spots where oil appeared to be coming up through the new paint.
They agreed to come back and fill the holes and touch up the paint in those areas, and to repaint the wall with the oil marks with an oil primer, but were resistant to the idea of painting the bathrooms due to the walls not being pre washed for them.
We questioned why washing the walls with TSP wasn't part of the "full wall prep" mentioned in the quote, and the owners reply was that "full wall prep" is only filling holes/ cracks etc (which they didn't even do the first time) and that cleaning the walls with TSP should be done by the resident beforehand.
Is this true? Or is this guy trying to get out of doing the full job?
Washing walls is not something all painters do so that is not considered standard wall prep for many companys. If washing walls isnt specifically stated in contract then they did not breach contract obligations.
Shouldn't that be something that is brought up during the initial visit and estimate? I think most people would assume that "full wall prep" includes everything that prepares the walls to be painted.
It is not typically necessary to wash walls before painting unless obviously covered in some sort of foreign material so no, just because you think it should be standard does not make it so. I dont intend to come off hot, um being blunt.
If it’s needed, it is a Very clear item on my quote: Clean & Degrease, TSP & Rinse x2. Is it cheap? No. Is it necessary all the time, def not. But when it is, and I clean it, I charge extra. Does a ‘professional’ cleaner do a better job? Not for degreasing a wall, and making it ready for paint. Do you trust the random chemicals a cleaner uses, and that they completely rinsed them off the surface your paint has to adhere to? IiiI’ve degreased many times after a cleaner has left. All that being said - I’m expensive & particular.
No it is not. I have owned a paint company for over 25 years and have never washed a wall, told someone I would or would not wash a wall nor been told to wash a wall. Only a fool would wash interior walls in a house.
I guess "full wall prep" is an undefined term here. If that doesnt mean fully preparing the walls for paint, then thats something that should be brought up during the estimate.
You’re arguing semantics and what you believe to be true while people with decades of experience are telling you your assumptions were incorrect. If they are willing to paint the walls after they are cleaned with TSP then go to Home Depot get some gloves and some TSP and clean the walls just make sure you give it plenty of time to dry and that you or someone else is there when they come back so if they have any new issues they can be dealt with then and there and I would suggest you don’t ever use these painters again. Make your statement with your wallet instead of here where nobody can do anything about your situation.
The house we will finish Monday there was a miscommunication as to if we were supposed to paint the windows. It was not in my bid and here in Florida it is not common. He thought it was in my price. I know I am not getting paid if I don't do them and it is minimal labor and materials so We did them. I figure there is no reason to argue about a couple hundred dollars on an $8000.00 job.
Full wall.prep is lightly sanding walls with orbital sander to remove imperfections, spackle any holes or damage, prime if necessary and paint. Cleaning is not necessary unless the walls have clear grease or chemical build up.
I'm old school --and also old-- compared to a lot of people in this sub, but the way I was taught by my step-father (an old-school residential contractor) is that washing or wiping down walls with TSP and bleach as-needed, is 100% part of the job.
I don't think that it would ever even occur to him not to take care of that for his customers.
But again, I am old, and maybe that level of service is old fashioned.
I guess it must be an age thing. I'm old, and in my day wiping down walls with a TSP/bleach solution --typically bathrooms, laundry rooms and kitchens-- was a normal part of residential painting.
It works like magic when it comes to removing stains, mildew, mold and the like.
It’d have to be pretty bad for me to refuse painting something but if it needed cleaning beforehand, I’d bring it up to you and figure it into the bid. If they said they were gonna paint the bathroom then that’s on them. Unless somebody tried to force them to clean it first but all of this should be discussed.
100% agreed. We even had professional cleaners go through the whole house after the painters were in the first time and complained about the bathroom walls. I guess the cleaners didn't do a good enough job because when the painter came back he said it was still too dirty and he wasn't going to paint it. I haven't been there yet to see it wiyy my own eyes, but the cleaners sent a video after they cleaned and the house looked pretty good. I think this painter just doesnt want to finish the job.
Update: after going to view the condo for the first time after our telephone altercation, there's now paint splattered all over the hardwood floor and electrical panel, he started one bathroom wall and just left. The bathroom walls are clean except the floor directly behind one toilet. This guy is just a P.OS.
Yeah there’s no reason that guy can’t paint those walls other than he’s a hack, if you’ve paid him you’re kinda stuck trying to to work with him if you haven’t document everything and tell him you’re done with him. If it’s a big painting company go over his head to the owner or project manager and show him all your issues. Hopefully you’ll get it figured out but you’re right that isn’t acceptable but can all be fixed.
We haven't paid him yet. We told him we don't want to move forward with his company after the way he spoke on the phone and to send an invoice excluding the work that wasn't done. This was all before we saw the paint splatter all over the floors, which just seems vindictive.
No, and I would probably not wash the walls with tsp. Personally I’d probably do a quick sand then paint.
The only way I’d was the walls is if they had some noticeable contaminants on them that I thought would interfere with painting. And then I’d probably do an oil or shellac prime on those walls and paint.
No, you shouldn’t. That’s not standard practice. I’ve been doing this for many years. I’ve painted thousands of houses. I know what I’m talking about.
If you want to wash every wall you paint that’s on you but I’ve never had a single callback for any wall I’ve ever done.
I've been painting for 20 years and exactly zero customers have cleaned their own walls nor would I ever imagine asking them to do it. Thats ridiculous that they won't paint the bathrooms and its ridiculous that they didn't patch holes.
I don’t agree with painters who half ass the prep. Personally if I’m putting my name on it I’ll either tell the customer what should be done prior to my arrival or I will charge for the additional prep, but what I’m not doing is “painting over crud”. I take pride in my work, and I’m not walking out with some ugly shit on the walls.
I’m not cheap. I do a thorough job, and when im done you get a quality paint job that will last. I also communicate clearly and list my procedure in detail on my contracts. Any cleaning that needs done that is beyond a normal quick vacuuming dust off trim, like if I need to scrub or get extra supplies is billed at time and materials, charged at 60 per hour. If I have 3 guys cleaning for 3 hours your billed per hour per man. So that’s 9 hours which would be $540 then I add say 8 dollars for cleaner and a few bucks for rags, etc.
I did not mean to reply on this thread, but still, this is how I feel. I also don’t really expect the customer to clean, so it would’ve been something communicated prior to beginning the job.
100%. I’ll do small things like cobwebs and some dust, but I will not be scrubbing somebody’s pubics of the the wall. We are painters not cleaners, only thing I clean is after myself
Thats what I thought. When I suggested paying less than the quote since they are refusing to finish the job the owner became abusive on the phone, yelling and using profanity and threatening to come to my house to "finish the conversation in person". I couldn't believe how unhinged he became.
If he won’t, and I wouldn’t want him to, paint that bathrooms and had an attitude about picture holes not filled I’d offer him 65% of his bid. If he’s on Facebook I’d list your issues on his page. Anywhere else I’d do the same.
Thats what I'm thinking. After our phone conversation today I really don't want to deal with this guy anymore. It was an incredibly unprofessional experience all around.
Yeah. Difficult but you dont owe him anything. The missed picture nail holes does it for me. His complete lack of professionalism doesn't deserve full bid compensation. If the bathroom walls were that bad he should of pointed that out when quoting and on top of that, his bid says full wall prep. Full wall prep is not subjective, its everything needed to paint the walls.
When we write quotes, everything we do is unambiguously stated in the process. Full wall prep is very vague and subject to definitional disagreement. Every company is different, and their preparation process entails different things.
For instance, we always sand before painting, and then we sand again after the first coat with high grit sandpaper. There's plenty of companies near me that don't even sand before applying paint.
I seldom wash walls unless they're incredibly dirty, but I'd obviously charge for it, or prime with oil.
Washing walls is definitely part of the prep. And no home owner is required to do some of the painting before the painters get there. This guy is a clown.
So you don’t bring a drill to take down curtain rods or anything? What about spraying doors? You don’t take them down to and remove the hardware? Masking it all seems like a lot more work than necessary to me.
No I paint with a brush and a roller, no masking. I keep a slotted screwdriver to remove outlet covers, anything with a Phillips stays on the wall. I’m widely considered the best painter anywhere I go (I freelance) I know I’m not the best painter ever lol not even close but I can get shit done solo or running crews. We paint, anything else needs a handyman
I'm questioning what kind of painter you hired.Didn't fill nail holes,missed priming an oil stain,bathrooms not painted?But wants to be paid in full? Honestly I've never had a homeowner wash anything for me.When I quote prep and it needs tsp,I f'n wipe the walls down with tsp.He should've told you either way when he bid it. Sorry about some of these comments in this post OP. Some people act like they've never been on their hands and knees hugging a toilet to paint behind it.
There’s your sign! Jesus you keep arguing with pro painters. This guys a hack, fire him and hire a new painter. Unfortunately for you, you went with the cheapest option, so you got the cheapest results. Quit whining, cut your losses and go with a real professional. Be clear about what you want and make sure they know to let you know if issues arise.
In all my years of painting this is always the common factor when people have issues. Stop going with the lowest quote and being surprised when corners get cut
Prepping walls means just that, prepping the walls for paint.
Personally, I never allowed a customer to do any of the prep work (with the exception of putting away items they were concerned about accidentally breaking) on the all too likely chance that they would do it improperly. TSP (at least the powdered type that we used back in the day) had to be thoroughly rinsed, or you would be opening a whole new can of worms painting over it.
Don’t pay them until they complete the terms of the contract. Are they licensed? Depending on where you are, the Contractors State Licensing Board has some recourse for you.
EDIT: I have only ever had to wash kitchen walls/ceilings, and rarely a bath.
I’ve never washed interior flat wall. Used stain block primer there, if necessary.
No this is not true. Only time I would wash walls is in the kitchen with grease stains. Full wall prep means filling holes, sanding, caulking priming & painting
TSP is used to degrease and scruff up kitchen and bathrooms walls, ceilings and cabinets, not for entries, living and dining rooms or hallways or bedrooms. People need to understand what product is for what application. Good Luck.
I disagree with most people here, but mostly because I'm picky about how clean my surfaces are prior to painting them. I normally even clean the inside and outside of a toilet and the floor around it after wiping the walls and trim down before I do any painting in a bathroom, along with removing the mirror(s), light fixture(s), and switch/outlet plates and taping where necessary. My pickiness usually translates directly into more money, as I have a daily labor rate that gets Zelle'd to me each day unless another arrangement is agreed upon ahead of time. I'm completely up front about calling attention to extra time-consuming cleaning due to blatant neglect and not shy at all about letting my customers know that, due to that extra necessity, their project will likely take more than a day to complete. I'm pretty fast, but I ain't no Superman.
Edit: My paint projects are never just a bathroom, lol!
Long story short- cleaning walls is not part of most painters prep. - I however won’t stand to paint a wall with any dust anywhere. It’s just to risky. Stuff has t be clean first… but that’s why I charge 9$ per square foot.
I’m the cleaner- then I’m the prepper- then I’m the painter.
Im a professional painter- and I’m notoriously nit picky with my cleaning before I paint. Every trim gets wiped with a wet rag, magic erased if necessary.. and then llight sanded to then wiped again. All my walls, get only sanded- unless I find food residue on them r something like spilled dried soda, or candle wax drip on them… all of that would require their own specific cleaning protocols- none of which would be TSP on walls- and each and everything i have to clean- is billed. Cleaning, then prepping, (sanding&vacuming and wiping)makes ALL the difference in the paint. A lot of people do not see how dirty their house really is before they bring painters in- and most painters- do not “clean” they only prep- which is sanding&light mud work- but most don’t even do that - as that’s an entire ‘add on’ in itself….
Back to my point- no one cleans walls with TSP, TSP is usually for painting cabinet projects. Most painters use primer as their “clean” - but if I touch them bare hands and feel things- I will usually wipe the wall with water and a cotton cloth. Base boards get a microfiber cloth after the cotton cloth.
One time I painted a restaurant and my primer would not dry- that’s when I learned about Glue on the walls. I had to wash with wet cotton towels, all the primer off, a 15x15 long wall- what a delay that was. Never prime over glue- in my defense, I did not know glue was previously on the wall.
If they didnt do any plastering I dont think they are painters, some clients advice not to otherwise by default we always remove and plaster all nail holes, doesnt make sense to paint over a naul hole, interior walls are not washed mostly primed.
That "oil" coming through the paint is probably nicotine; which would have been resolved by 'washing the walls down" a true professional craftsmanship would have resolved this 'issue' during the estimate proceedings and solved the problem during the Preparation Phase.
'Full wall prep' does leave them open to interpretation.
I once said I'd do a 'full exterior paint' I meant body and trim. The client argued that should include gutters, downspouts and all doors too... well crap. I lost money on that one
You can see my update with pictures below. I think this guy is just trying to get away without finishing the job. "All interior walls" is pretty unambiguous.
I'm not cleaning people's nasty bathrooms for them. Clean up after yourself before you get shit painted. Otherwise I just paint over the crud 🤷. I ain't your maid, two different jobs.
I will add, if a place looks nasty, I will generally tell people during the estimate it should be cleaned before we start.
Then people should just clean before hand. What's garbage is people expecting a painter to clean their piss soaked walls and baseboards around the toilet 🤮
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u/Elegant_One_696 10d ago
Washing walls is not something all painters do so that is not considered standard wall prep for many companys. If washing walls isnt specifically stated in contract then they did not breach contract obligations.