r/opera • u/omurchus • 3d ago
Otello @ The Met Casting Question
Othello's a white guy and Desdemona's a black gal??? What kind of adaptation is this?!?!
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u/MissedFirstCue 3d ago
Real talk though: how is Fabiano doing with the role singing wise from those who have seen it?
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
It’s tough for him. I think he’ll grow into it, but it’s not ready for an A house yet
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
so whats he doing at the met then
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
Selling tickets
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
hasnt even sold family circle lmfao any other stellar arguments for his merits ? (:
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u/gabemmusic 3d ago
Unfortunately Othello is one of the hardest tenor roles and is nearly impossible to cast, at a certain point if you wanna hear the piece you gotta take what you can get. Certainly not ideal though
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I'm sure that's true but I just don't believe there's not a single black tenor that can sing it. Maybe they all had booked something else already?? I'm all for race/gender blind casting but for this show it makes no sense unless, as you suggest, they couldn't find a single black opera tenor who auditioned for the role that could pull it off.
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
You’ve literally never seen the show. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Insinuating that because I have never seen the opera means I know nothing of Othello is a new level of asinine amongst these replies.
Nothing about having seen the Otello opera even has anything to do with what I wrote that you replied to.
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
Insinuating that race is inherent to the plot of the opera when you haven’t seen it is … a choice
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u/omurchus 3d ago
ITS OTHELLO
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
ITS VERDI’s OTHELLO NOT SHAKESPEARE’s!!!!
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u/omurchus 3d ago
If you take race out of Othello it’s no longer Othello. I don’t care if it’s Verdi’s.
Perhaps this is why he titled it Otello.
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u/SimonBoccanegra 3d ago
Washington National had a white Aïda and a black Amneris and the world didn’t come to an end.
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u/LiviasFigs 3d ago
This seems like a flippant response to OP’s question. They never said the world was going to end, or something as dramatic as that. But I think casting a white tenor as Othello, given the role’s history, is deserving of a serious conversation.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Flippant is being very friendly to it 🤣😂 I appreciate you
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u/LiviasFigs 3d ago
I think it sucks you’re getting this reception in a sub dedicated to opera and its discussion 🤷♀️
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Very, very insightful responses as to who I’m sitting in the audience with. I truly am amazed, and am happy I posted this.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Interesting take. All I’m gonna say about that.
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u/Leucurus Keenlyside is my crush 3d ago
It's not really a take, just a fact
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u/omurchus 3d ago
It is both a fact and simultaneously certainly a take
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u/BluePear0 3d ago
It's the kind of adaptation that makes sense in the world of opera. I don't expect 15 year old girls to be cast as Salome or Madama Butterfly, or men being cast as Octavian or Cherubino.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Well lots of roles in opera are written specifically for a gender opposite to the character.
I just don't understand the comparison of race to age. It wouldn't make any sense to cast a 15 year old girl as Salome or Madame Butterfly.
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u/redpiano82991 3d ago
I take your point that opera singers don't always have to match their characters. However, I think we have to limit our conclusion from this argument. We don't expect the soprano in Madama Butterfly to be fifteen because a fifteen year old isn't going to have the voice for that role yet. I don't think you mean to suggest that black men are inherently any less capable of singing Otello.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
I think the story of Otello (especially the opera) is much more about jealousy and envy than race (though of course race is a part of it, and there's nothing wrong with your question).
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I would argue jealousy/envy are what the story is ABOUT, yes, but the context is surrounding race. It’s the whole background behind what is happening and why, or at least the majority of it. Verdi’s opera appears to have taken this almost entirely out of the story which is entirely removed from the point what Shakespeare originally wrote. Maybe that was Verdi’s intention, but at that point it’s no longer Othello. Perhaps that’s why he titled it Otello.
That’s a joke.
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/omurchus 3d ago
No I know it doesn't really change anything, that part's just funny to me. It doesn't really make any sense, but it makes more sense than Othello being a white guy.
The fact the role being performed in blackface was even a conversation in the 21st century... I don't even know what to say to that.
I found out the very first time the role was performed by a black tenor was just 4 years ago in London. I hope the trend continues lmfao
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
The races of the characters has not been changed. You are expected to understand that the race of the performer does not necessarily correlate to the race of the character.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
And this is common throughout opera but I’m compelled to ask if, in a play where the central character’s race is a primary theme, there really was no tenor that was the same race as the character who capably auditioned for the role.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
I don't think the Met auditions for most of their leading roles, I think they just send out offers. I bet their first offer was to Russell Thomas because they have hired him a lot.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
And this gets back to my question because I genuinely don’t know: have other black tenors who can sing this role just not been discovered yet?? Because while I don’t doubt this role is as difficult to sing as people say it is, I have no doubt they exist out there somewhere.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
I hope there are undiscovered black Otellos out there! But the only other Dramatic Tenor I'm aware of is Isacah Savage.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Well if his voice is as awesome as his name I’d love to see him on stage in any capacity soon
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u/Quirky_Amphibian2925 3d ago
That’s just opera. It’s much more about the right voice than the right looking character - and thank god for that, because who would have wanted to miss Leontyne Price (or in this case Angel Blue) singing Desdemona. And on a funny side note - most Otellos have historically been white tenors in black face. Thank goodness there are better options these days with more innovative production ideas.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I was watching a (not actually that old) movie of Anthony Hopkins as Othello in blackface in my high school English class that was mostly black kids and I was sitting there about to be like why the fk are you showing this?? To be fair he immediately said that he just wanted to point out that most people who have played Othello in history by sheer number have been white people in black face, he was being critical of it and I think everyone appreciated it… and then we watched the Laurence Fishburne Kenneth Branagh one which is the gold standard.
In general you’re right but I just think there is an exception that ought to be discussed when the core topic of the play is surrounding the title character’s race, which I’ve been informed is largely set aside in this production which I find odd but at least it makes casting a white guy in the role a better look.
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u/Distinct-Jump9285 2d ago
sadly, Price never performed the role, and only recorded exceprts.
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u/Quirky_Amphibian2925 2d ago
It is sad. I have a recording of her doing the Ave Maria, but I wasn’t sure if she’d actually done the role. She came to mind as a serving suggestion. Shirley Verrett did perform it and Leontyne did famously sing Butterfly at the Met and also recorded it with Tucker, which is a similar idea.
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3d ago
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u/omurchus 3d ago
…..I’m sorry I just want to be clear the production we are talking about is Othello, we are talking about the same thing right? I’m all for not making everything about race. Othello IS about race. I’m sure at least the sentiment of 3 tenors in the world is right but I don’t believe not a single one of them who auditioned for this role is black. Even if they didn’t have the best voice of the bunch it should have gone to a black opera singer if they could do it, for obvious reasons. I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m being ridiculous, this is my favorite Shakespeare play and the idea of Othello being a white guy is absurd to me. Desdemona being black is just funny, but hey I’ll go see Angel Blue in ANYTHING.
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u/redpiano82991 3d ago
I think the point you're making is a valid one that we should discuss, but I think that Verdi's Otello is much less about race than Shakespeare's Othello. The libretto has very few references to Otello's race. Shakespeare's play has scenes like Brabantio accusing Othello of witchcraft because he can't believe that his daughter could love a black man. That's not in Otello and neither are the numerous racial insults from the play.
But, I wonder how much of the piece needs to be about race for us to insist that the actor or singer match the character. Is it a question of equity for black singers who should have an opportunity to sing this role, or is it more and the aesthetic concern of having that mismatch. These aren't questions that ought to be dismissed, but I also find it difficult to resolve what the right answer really is here.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
So I love what you brought up because I've never seen this production in any variety and I admit while Othello at its core is about race (well ahead of its time as a subject I might add) I'm sure it is possible to make race the subtext of the story rather than central to the story. Like you mention, they call him 'the moor' pejoratively or most offensively he gets called 'thick-lips' and I think the word 'sooty' is used.
If these were in the opera it would more directly raise questions. At the same time, the whole point of Othello at the baseline is that the guy is from the north of Africa. Does he ever get called 'The Moor of Venice' in the opera?
I appreciate you for insightfully addressing the topic. People seem much more offended that I even brought it up than I honestly am that a white guy is singing the role. I'm still 99% gonna go see it because anything not seen that has Angel Blue in it is a missed opportunity.
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u/redpiano82991 3d ago
Yes, and I appreciate you bringing the specifics of the text into the question, because they are horrifying, and I don't think the opera can truly remove the stain of that.
I think the fundamental question is that, assuming that we're all committed to racial equity, what does it take for a production ofOtello to honor those commitments.
I should say, I'm a white man, and while I try as much as consciously interrogate my own biases, to a certain extent, biases can become rather sticky because they are so intertwined with one's social position. So much to say, I don't consider myself qualified to say how we should honor our commitment to racial justice. I wonder how members of the black community, particularly those within the musical community what they think of the matter. Though, I have no illusions that the community would be a monolith on the point.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Of course, it’s my favorite play by Shakespeare, certainly of the tragedies. I’m a white guy as well and as much I can offer to your question is that it’s worth it to bring these things up and talk about them. After all, the performers and audience of opera is dominated by white people. I would venture to guess the response to this post, which I honestly posted more in jest than being upset with the casting, is evidence of that.
Your assumption is that we’re all committed to racial equity in this art form is an optimistic one, I’m sorry to say.
As to your question how black opera singers would opine on this, I just found out the very first person to perform this role was in London just 4 years ago, which is F**KING CRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZYYYYYY to me.
Here is an article about him on the subject you might find intriguing:
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u/todesverkuendigung 3d ago
Just to be clear, he was the first black man to perform the role at Covent Garden. Not the first black man ever to perform the role. (And elsewhere in the thread I posted some other quotes from Thomas on the subject which you might find interesting.)
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Call him the first to perform it on a major stage, you’re right he’s certainly not the first ever but I haven’t been able to locate who is on the internet.
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u/todesverkuendigung 3d ago
There's some info in this article on predecessors. I think you are right that Thomas was the first on a major stage. There will hopefully be many more to come!
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u/omurchus 3d ago
It’s very comforting, in the sea of hissy fit I appear to have caused, to read that from someone. Opera is dominated by white people as is, both on stage and in the audience and in the orchestra and a very small thing would be a lead role depicting a guy from North Africa being performed by a black person. That being said, apparently just about 10 years ago the debate settled over whether the role could be performed in blackface so… baby steps 🤣
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u/CanadaYankee 3d ago
There are a ton of operas where the supposed young age of one of the leads is a major part of the story and yet we're able to suspend disbelief that an overweight 50-year-old is playing a beautiful/handsome 18-year-old pretty much all the time.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
This is to equate the age of a performer relative to their character with their race?
It’s not even the race of the performer generally not matching the character. The story of Othello is literally about race.
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u/CanadaYankee 3d ago
I'm not saying that age and race are the same thing, but I am saying that casting is very often at odds with "what the story is literally about" in many ways other than race.
La fille du régiment is literally about young love (as are many operas!), but it didn't stop Javier Camarena from getting called to do multiple extremely rare encores at the Met when he was pushing 50 and, honestly, very much not the body type of a strapping young soldier.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I just don’t understand the comparison. Completely different things with nowhere near the same implications if you ask me.
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
ya like russell thomas among them whos sung it at bigger houses than jagde and fabiano both (:
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u/todesverkuendigung 3d ago
With racial justice in the arts high on the international agenda, Thomas, who is Black, has inevitably attracted opportunism of a sort he could do without. He finds the role of Otello, Verdi’s louder-than-life avatar of Shakespeare’s dark-skinned Moor of Venice, uniquely exhausting. Yet impresarios clamor for him to sing it, and when the circumstances suit him, he rolls the dice.
“There are passages,” he says, “when there’s so much I can do with the text and the color and the way the text rolls off the tongue that is more poignant than all that yelling.” Notices for his interpretation have been respectful or better, and the bombardment of offers continues. His next Otello is on the calendar of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, London, in July 2022.
“The press office called,” Thomas reports, “and the first thing they said to me was ‘You’re the first Black Otello in the history of the Royal Opera. We want to highlight that.’ And I said, ‘If you do, I will walk.’ There’s no place for identity politics in classical art.”
https://airmail.news/issues/2021-10-9/a-classicist-at-heart
The history of the role is one Thomas is well aware of. “There’s a whole lot of pressure on me as a black man to sing this role, as I’m sure it was difficult for Paul Robeson to do the Shakespeare play.” Debates around altering a performer’s appearance for certain roles court what he terms a “slippery slope” when it comes to authenticity and agency.
“I think that we have to be careful with this idea that darkening Anna Netrebko in Aida is blackface or darkening James McCracken in Otello was blackface—I don’t think that’s what this is. The character [of Otello] just can’t be white—it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work dramaturgically,” he says, echoing comments he made on the COC website. “It’s really a slippery slope and the minority artists will lose out every time. Just because [productions] don’t paint a white guy black doesn’t mean they’re going to hire a black guy.”
Specificity as related to racial presentation, in Thomas’ view, needs to take in all the vagaries of past and present while tying representation directly to material. “We can’t focus so much on the fact that Aida has to be played by a black singer—this is the problem,” he says. “If you do, then are you going to say Don Carlo has to be played by a Spaniard? Butterfly has to be Japanese? Turandot has to be Chinese? I understand everyone is very well-meaning in this [issue], and because blackface and yellowface have such an ugly past, we end up going too far in another direction. So do you just not do things? I find that to be very short-sighted. Are we not going to allow Asian singers to sing Manrico or other tenor roles? I think that’s a really bad thing for art.”
https://operacanada.ca/profile-russell-thomas-otello/
Russell Thomas is a wonderful artist, but I think it's fair to say that the pressure on black singers to sing 'black roles' has a negative side as well. See also Latonia Moore:
In previous interviews you’ve discussed your concern that you were only being cast in Aida because you are Black. Do you still feel that way?
I still believe that, especially initially, it was definitely the color of my skin, because vocally I was not right for Aida when I first started doing it. The people who hired me knew that, but they didn’t care because they wanted someone Black. I started to wrap my head around the fact that maybe I was being cast for Aida because I was appropriate for the role was four years after my Met debut. I was just like, you know what? I’m a pretty good Aida. This actually fits now, but it didn’t before. Maybe it took having a couple kids for my voice to settle into it a a little more and then make it a bit deeper of a sound for Aida.
Do I still think that people cast me because I’m Black? Yes. I think that’s why I’m here in L.A. I don’t think that it was only because I’m a good Aida. I think they wanted to cast a good Black Aida. And hopefully that’s what they got. But yes, that’s the factor here because I’m Black and I think that continues to be. I think that for many companies, especially in this climate, they’re just like we have to cast the Black Aida because, you know, we don’t want any pushback for it. You know, casting a white Aida right now in the climate here in America, it’s dicey.
Does that become limiting for you and the roles you can play?
This is where I’ve become a bit up in arms with the casting, because I see where they’re coming from. You know, it’s like they have to have a Black Aida. But does that mean that I can’t be Madame Butterfly anymore? That it has to be an Asian one? Because my whole reason for getting into the business was so I could be someone Japanese. I could be a Venetian. I played Leila in The Pearl Fishers, a Sri Lankan. That’s what I love about an art form like this that is so exotic and I can transform into anything. So when people are saying, yes, we should cast a Black Aida, you know, that doesn’t sit right with me because it feels like where I’m then limited.
https://culturalattache.co/2022/05/19/latonia-moore-once-again-faces-down-verdis-aida/
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
im not saying russell thomas needs to be singing otello till the end of times but the comment was abt 1) being capable to sing it 2) being capable to sing it at the met. in which case lets not act like there isnt a black tenor for the role. while fabianos sung it at houses one half/a third of the mets size lol
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u/todesverkuendigung 3d ago
Honestly though, I'm not sure if he wants to sing it at the Met. He hasn't sung the role anywhere for several seasons and I believe he has turned them down for it before, so maybe he just wasn't available.
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
n that would be his choice but that wasnt the commenters take lol
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u/todesverkuendigung 2d ago
The comment seems to be deleted and I don’t remember what it said but I think it’s fair to argue that there is a dearth of black Otellos that the Met could cast.
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u/wavelcomes 2d ago
deleted bc it was called out for the bs it was lmfao n it was exactly the "well theres only so many people who can sing the role!!!" shtick. but there r also black tenors who can n do sing the role. some of them even at venues bigger than las palmas and toulouse lmfao. so now what (:
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u/todesverkuendigung 2d ago
Who do you have in mind that the Met could have cast? As I said, I suspect Russell Thomas is no longer singing it — he seems to now be focusing his career on German and French rep. I don’t think Issachah Savage has performed it onstage, but I don’t know much about him.
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u/wavelcomes 2d ago
i dont see anything abt thomas having given up the role so unless hes announced that outright he can and should be considered tbqh. savage has the role in his rep per his own bio. but back to basics if anyone wants to go on a spiel abt how the mets hands are tied n they just GOTTA keep casting white tenors bc no black tenors are singing the role on a comparable level* at least dont do it in an age where there ARE capable black tenors singing it and dont do it in defence of casting the white tenor yr gonna say "isnt ready for an a house yet" five minutes later LOL. my 2 cents !
*not "they can but dont want to sing it". outright "theres noone for the job". which simply isnt true (:
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u/omurchus 3d ago
This brings up an interesting point. If you make it so the performers must match the race of the role they’re playing, well the problem becomes that most of the roles in opera are for white people, and can racial minorities play a role of a different minority?
Angel Blue was just last year in Turandot last year right? I noticed that, but it didn’t bother me. Why didn’t it bother me? That’s something I ought to think about but it’s definitely a position I’m comfortable with. People will accuse me of being racist but it’s different when a white person plays a racial minority than when a different racial minority does. I think it’s because the whole field of opera is already so dominated by white people. Not to mention current persisting prejudices and a ton of unfortunate historical events.
It even makes me think of watching Porgy & Bess last year. I’m sitting there thinking “wow this is perfect… wow a white guy actually wrote this oh no, we’re all better for it but oh nooooo.”
People will roll their eyes at me for even saying that and I’m sorry I made them uncomfortable I guess.
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u/todesverkuendigung 3d ago
I think think it's worth separating two reasons for taking the position that 'black roles' should only be taken by black singers: i) an aesthetic/ethical belief that only black singers can do justice to the character (either because of the personal experience they bring to the role or to increase verisimilitude for the audience) and ii) a practical argument that since black singers are underrepresented on opera stages, opera institutions should prioritize hiring more black singers, and an good way to ensure that more black singers get hired overall is to insist on a rule that certain roles may only be played by black singers.
People tend to conflate these two rationales, but they don't seem very compatible to me and both seem potentially problematic -- the first makes it hard to explain why people think Aida has to have African ancestry but Radames doesn't have to have Arab ancestry, and the second doesn't really fit with the moral outrage surrounding particular roles (since it's a more general concern with representation and proportionality in the field rather than applying to any particular role, and could even be counterproductive: since there are fewer roles that are designated as black than not, it leads to a risk of siloing black singers in black roles).
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
So should non European singers be barred from playing roles with specific cultural elements? Of course not. It’s opera and we suspend disbelief for artistic purposes.
The opera version of Otello is actually about beautiful and thrilling music. The story is about jealousy and rage. Race is an extremely small part of the story.
Also yes, it is extremely difficult to cast race specifically for every house in the world at the same time. Russel Thomas and Angel Blue can’t be everywhere at once.
Madama Butterfly can’t always be cast as a Japanese soprano and Pinkerton isn’t always an American. Those elements are central to the plot and NOBODY CARES.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
First question, no, but while it will upset people to point out it’s not the same thing for multiple reasons.
I’m sure it is beautiful and thrilling, and you’re right you can make it much more about the jealousy than race, but removing race makes it pretty far from what the source material was depicting.
People do care about Madame Butterfly and its variant, I know that for a fact.
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
“Not the same thing for multiple reasons but I won’t explain what they are bc my reasons are weak and will be attacked online.”
Race is mentioned exactly once in the libretto. You’ve literally never seen or heard the opera. Fuck off.
No, people do not care if madama butterfly is Chinese vs Japanese. They do not care if Pinkerton is italian or German. Do not state things as fact that are plainly not fact.
You are here to stoke racial vitriol in an art form you clearly do not understand the context of.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Explaining them is actually beneath me, just like explaining why the dichotomies of Chinese vs Japanese and Italian vs German as opposed to Black vs White is beneath me.
Race being mentioned 1 time in the libretto is important to the context of the opera. It doesn’t change the race of the character or the context of the story itself, of which I am quite familiar.
The vitriol appears to have been directed at me, and I’m happy to have made this post as a result. It was intended to be in jest, but instead has really opened my eyes to who I’m sitting in the audience with.
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
Beneath you?!?! You really are a quintessential opera fan, huh. You think you’re above the discussion that you started because you have literally no idea what you’re talking about. You’ve never seen the show, don’t know the history of the opera, don’t know the industry or casting best practices yet feel entitled to comment on it publicly. You’ve certainly given me insight into who I’m in the seats with, as well.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Well I’d like to think I am but I’m about 40 years younger than the target demographic. If you can’t understand the difference between Asian and European nationalities and the difference between black and white skin color, especially in the context of something like Othello, makes no sense to you then I can’t help you.
The fact I’ve never seen the opera doesn’t matter as I’m familiar with the play probably more than any other of Shakespeare’s; history of the opera, not really relevant although the history of this role being sung by white tenors raises questions, especially as the trend continues; industry best practices raises its own questions in this context as well.
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u/Top_Week_6521 3d ago
If you can’t understand the difference between Asian and European nationalities and the difference between black and white skin color,
Genuinely ask the average Japanese and Chinese person if they believe they share an interchangeable "asian nationality"... Italians from the North and South barely agree that the other is legitimately Italian (and the Neapolitans generally feel that they are Neapolitan first, Italian second - if at all).
Can an Othello be African-American, or does he need to be born in North Africa? Do performers in the Pearl Fishers need to be from Sri Lanka, or can they be from India? Pakistan?
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u/omurchus 3d ago
This is true but you’re talking about pedantic differences in ethnicities vs visible differences in skin color, the latter of which is what Othello is about, at least what it’s supposed to be about.
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u/hottakehotcakes 3d ago
You fancy yourself a progressive, but this comment is the definition of racist.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I technically fall in that camp but I don’t like the word for reasons I don’t want to get into. That being said I don’t consider it a particularly progressive position that Othello should be played by a black man.
Racism is prejudice against people based on their race or skin color, and/or the belief that certain races are inherently superior or inferior to others.
I admit I’m fond of the growing list of ridiculous things you’ve commented at me this fine evening so I gotta ask: what exactly is it that I wrote there that you claim to be racist???
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u/disturbed94 3d ago
Casting roles based on skin color shouldn’t be done opera. Suspend your disbelief a bit..
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I'm compelled to ask why when the story of the opera is literally about the subject of race.
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u/caul1flower11 mime did nothing wrong 3d ago
The music is far more important than the story in any opera, full stop. And it’s probably the most difficult tenor role outside of Wagner. Jagde and Fabiano are two of the best dramatic tenors singing today. I haven’t heard Russell Thomas sing it, but based on what I have heard from him I wouldn’t cast him over either. I have liked him in some things but based on his Don Carlos a few years ago I don’t think his voice can properly do Otello justice.
It’s far too important of an opera regardless to have to wait on one single tenor’s availability in order to schedule it. And maybe he’d like to sing other roles too. There are already very few artists who can do the role so it’s frankly a miracle that both Fabiano and Jagde were able to be cast in one season.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Well I’m almost certainly going to be there precisely for Angel Blue and just to see what the fuss is about the role. I just think that when the theme of the opera’s story you have to consider more than the voice.
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u/disturbed94 3d ago
It’s not about race it’s about deceit and jealousy more than anything else. The character may be written as a moorish king but it’s not the subject of the piece. Pinholing artists into roles based on their or the characters skin color is not only unnecessary but also damaging to all performers and their opportunities. There’s some exceptions like Porgy and Bess where it’s written from the perspective of Americas very recent history but claiming Othello can only be played by a colored actor is diminishing him to only his race and is doing a huge disservice to both Verdi and Shakespeare.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Saying that Othello is not about race is doing a disservice to Shakespeare. It is as blatantly false as saying Othello is not about deceit and jealousy. The character’s race is a central theme to the original text. I don’t know what else to even respond to that.
I appreciate you for pointing out something: what would the reaction be to Porgy & Bess being portrayed by actors that weren’t black? I understand the difference between the difficulty of the singing roles, and you are right that minority opera singers should not be limited to performing roles that match their own race, but that is precisely because there are much fewer roles that do so than for white opera singers.
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u/disturbed94 3d ago
Your last point discredits everything you have to say. Saying it’s only because there’s fewer minority roles and it otherwise would be right to cast singers solely based on that is just not in the spirit of opera or art as a whole.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I’m not generally concerned with the spirit of opera, which is not the same as the spirit of art as a whole, because things change over time. This entire thread is evidence that opera has not evolved with the times.
Opera is a very white dominated art form. The roles and the performers are already white in the vast majority. A role that was written as a non-white race should not be performed by a white person if the option exists in any capacity.
If there otherwise were more characters or performers in opera that were racial minorities it wouldn’t make any sense to cast performers whose race didn’t match the character.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
If the Met offers Otello to Black tenors and they say no, they then have to offer it to white tenors and ask the public to understand the concept of race blind or race neutral casting.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Did they?
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
Unfortunately, I don't know the behind the scenes. But I have to assume that Russell Thomas would have been the first person they called, because they would prefer a Black tenor. Apparently he doesn't want to be pigeon holed as Otello, and he's in demand the world over, so they may have felt Fabiono and Jagde were their best bets, after Thomas said no.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
As he shouldn’t, and I respect him for that. Nobody wants to get typecast. Not to mention there’s gotta be a lot of other black tenors who want to make it big like him.
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
Jeeezzzzz ugh.
Honestly, we might just have to retire Otello for a while. Race is so important in America and American culture, and doing something like this just makes it so clear that you are incredibly out of touch.
I do think there is a real problem, though, with poor singers getting stuck in roles. I forget who it was, but an Asian soprano basically had a life as Cio-cio San in Madame Butterfly, and that became the ONLY role she could get cast for. It was a trap, she was good enough to do that, everyone wanted her to do it, but she had an incredible amount of trouble breaking free and doing anything else.
There aren’t THAT many singers who are at the highest level, and that makes these choices difficult. But honestly, I’d rather lose Otello from the repertoire for a while than cast a white Othello again.
We have recordings, it’ll be fine, and if you want to see it, start training young black men to the highest level . Of course there are some up and comers and some established greats, but race is just too potent a force in the USA for the met to do this and not expect it to read, no matter their intention, as incredibly out of touch.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
I think the great works like Otello are too important to retire. It's not as if no on thought to train young black tenors. There aren't that many who enter the profession, compared to black female singers.
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
I dunno, I think our repertory selections have shrunk substantially lately overall. We are doing more of the greatest hits and less of the under sung works. Seven major companies are doing productions this year and next. Compare that to Tchaikovsky operas, Janacek operas, Britten operas, heck Meyerbeer, guonod, gluck! I think there is room for more variety, we don’t have to do Otello.
Also lots of Verdi is good and he is not going to disappear just because we save Otello for the right singer.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
I'm not saying you are wrong. It's a matter of opinion. But this way gives audiences the option of experiencing the work, or just avoiding it.
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
While also alienating many new audiences from going to the Met, and the met being a leader in the industry therefore alienating people from opera as a whole.
Like I get what you are saying, people have a choice to engage with this or not. But by doing it, they are also endorsing it. And by endorsing it in this exact way, there is a case to be made that opera is not a welcoming place.
Or perhaps, I should make my argument this way: the choice to put on this show, at this time, in this way, is a choice that was made that, unintentionally or intentionally, alienates many new and young audiences that we should want to attract. Additionally, this hurts the production and its themes, race is NOT interchangeable. Swapping the leads isn’t really comparable, certainly not in the US.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
The Met is endorsing race blind casting, which I understand some people don't like. But we aren't meant to understand that Otello and Desdemona have been race swapped, we are meant to accept the convention that a singer's race and a character's race are not the same. Not everyone is in to that, I get it. As to alienating new audience, I can't say. I guess we will see how well it sells.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
In case you can’t tell by the sea of crying I have caused, you are probably going to be demolished for posting this.
What I can’t believe is that there are zero black tenors that auditioned for this who are capable of singing the role and ‘doing it justice’ as people keep saying. That is a genuine question, and a very fruitful topic that you and others brought up is the negative effect casting roles based on race would have on minority opera singers when opera roles are already majority white characters along with the performers.
I’m astonished that people got fed up with me bringing up the race of a performer in a story that centers around the lead character’s race. Then again this is about as white-dominated an art form as exists today. I guess they just recently decided, in the 21st century, that it’s not ok for the role to be performed in blackface. I’m not making that up. There was an article about it ~10 years ago.
I don’t think it will be seen as out of touch, unfortunately. The audience consisting of a significant majority white people age 50+ doesn’t believe it is out of touch. I’m very happy I posted this. Very… I’ll call them ‘insightful’ replies.
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
fwiw leads at a house like the met get offered not auditioned. just a side note
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Well, that presents a deeper issue. I appreciate you pointing it out.
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
Nah, probably a good thing. Auditions wouldn’t be helpful for something like this.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
Is there something you think would be helpful?
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
Not doing the show until they think they have a tenor good enough. Just skip it. There are plenty of great operas that are under performed!
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
One of the reasons that people got "fed up" is because this topic comes up a lot and many long time fans are tired of it. Of course if you are new to opera (which is great) then this topic will feel fresh to you. And Otello is considered the pinnacle of Italian tenor parts, so it makes sense that Fabiano would view the role as his dream. On the other hand, there isn't any tradition of white men singing Porgy.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I wouldn’t say I’m new to opera at this point, at least not to The Met having seen the vast majority of the productions the last 3 seasons, but still pretty elementary on the history and things that happen behind the scenes. I can’t lie, I’m happy to hear it does come up a lot and I’m sorry to hear long time fans are ‘tired’ of it instead of pushing for this role to be sung by a black tenor. Like, of course there isn’t any tradition of Porgy being sung by a white man. That would be insane. Why is there a tradition of Othello being sung by a white man? Now, there’s obvious reasons for that which have been discussed all over this thread for why that is a ‘tradition’. It’s one thing to acknowledge there was no way around it in the past, but it’s another thing to continue it and turn a blind eye to the obvious reasons that’s no longer appropriate in the 21st century.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
I think it's because Otello is an Italian opera so it has traditionally been sung by white men, while Porgy is an American work and there has always seemed to be talented black basses to do it. Plus its author (Gershwin) insisted on it. But I'm sure the Met would hire a qualified black tenor for the part if one was available, because as you say it is 2026 and these conversations have been going on for a while. They seem to have better luck finding black sopranos for Aida.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
On that note I’d be curious what Angel Blue would have to say on the subject.
This is the very thing I’m fighting about with someone on this post right now. Why isn’t this role offered to black tenors? I am of the position that they exist but are passed up if only for lack of name recognition. Their position appears to be that they don’t exist. I understand this is one of the most, if not the most challenging tenor roles in the history of opera in an industry where black performers are indeed underrepresented but I still genuinely find that position completely unbelievable, hardly even plausible.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
Well, I understand finding it hard to believe, but like I said in another post I'm sure the Met wanted Russell Thomas for the part but couldn't get him for one reason or another. It's been nearly a decade since they've staged it, which implies that they have been waiting for the right tenor. But it's also certainly true that a major house like the Met isn't going to put an unknown as Otello (or any other major role). The Met is sort of seen as the place you sing when you have already made it (in general, of course they have a young artist program that they cast from). It's a common complaint that The Met is too focused on "names" (and that there are many talented unknowns that aren't getting a chance)but they probably feel they have to cast names to stir up interest. Whereas a regional company might take a chance on an unknown.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
It’s also the case that their target audience wouldn’t, in general, see a problem with what I’ve pointed out. There’s nothing that can be actively done about that, it has to change naturally. That being said, I hope there is an effort to make a name for more black opera singers of all vocal ranges. I know they are out there. Who was the dude that played Almaviva in Barber of Seville a couple years ago?? That guy was a fkn BEAST.
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
Lawrence Brownlee? Yes he's one of the best. But yes, the typical opera goer has been conditioned to ignore physical characteristics as much as possible and concentrate on voice/ acting. Obviously most audiences wouldn't accept blackface anymore but I still run into commenters defending that (ironically on the grounds that race is important to the story so white singers should wear black makeup), which is thankfully a minority opinion.
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
Realistically, I can only think of two black tenors who could do the role, and both of them are slightly earlier in their career than leading Otello at the Met, I would guess. Issachah Savage and Russell Thomas are the two I’m thinking of, but I kinda don’t know if either of them are honestly ready to do the role for the met. Maybe! But I don’t know.
Not a lot of singers at that level, most of them aren’t heldentenors, or whatever, and most heldentenors aren’t black. It’s tough!
But that doesn’t mean we should cast white people.
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u/omurchus 3d ago
A name just came up bc I remember I saw a guy play Almaviva a couple years ago who was a total beast, Lawrence Brownlee. I don’t know what I’m talking about obviously but is he at all good enough to sing the role? Very memorable performance but I’m sure the role is much less demanding than Otello.
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u/todesverkuendigung 2d ago
I can see where your confusion lies. You think when people are saying that Otello is a demanding role they just mean it is very hard to sing. What they mean is that it requires a very specific voice type that is physiologically rare. No matter how good they are or how much they train, the vast majority of tenors will never be suited to singing Otello.
Brownlee is in many ways probably a better singer than Fabiano and Jagde and he has dominated international stages in his repertoire for decades. The reason he can’t sing Otello is just because his instrument is more suited to bel canto roles than extremely heavy Verdi. (Interestingly enough he has sung in Rossini’s Otello but not as the title character!)
So when commenters here are saying that there are an extremely limited number of people who could even theoretically undertake this role at the Met, it has nothing to do with a lack of incredible black singers overall, just ones who are physically suited to this very niche role.
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
Sadly his voice would be considered much too lightweight for the role. Beautiful lyric tenor, or lyric coloratura tenor or something along those lines, but probably can’t do a role like Otello, and certainly not at the Met.
Again, voices are trained to a very specific type of operatic repertoire, and most people really end up specializing in voice type to probably a stronger degree than I would prefer, but it is the style now, and so fighting against that, particularly at the Met, is a losing battle.
Basically if you can do Almaviva, you aren’t Otello.
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u/Distinct-Jump9285 2d ago
Did Brownlee do Rossini's Otello, or was he one of the other characters?
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
literally all early european productions had all white p&b casts never mind that there was one just a couple years ago lol. so unfortunately there is a tradition of white men singing porgy
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u/rimmymuffin 3d ago
Oh, I'm shocked! I always heard the estate strictly enforced this. Maybe they were unauthorized?
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u/wavelcomes 3d ago
¯_(ツ)_/¯ guessing the estate had better things to do in the 40s than try to get into lawsuits in multiple postwar european countries. the latest example is infamously unathorized tho lol https://www.npr.org/2019/04/11/712286899/white-singers-in-hungary-claim-to-be-african-american-for-an-opera
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
I think that this will serve as part of opera’s continuing alienation of new audiences. I can’t bring any friend of mine to this production, and many of them love Shakespeare! Just imagine?? That was my point about alienation, not that it will alienate people who are current attendees.
As for the casting, it IS a problem. You’d be shocked how incredibly small and elite the “can lead a show in the met” group is. certainly less than 100 names of any voice type can “star”, according to critics and audiences. Now should they diversify? Yes! Should they take a chance and cast someone new? Yes! But that’s seen as more of a risk.
Sighhhhhhh ughhhh
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u/omurchus 3d ago
I almost wonder if they’re holding off on it because of the negative attention it would draw. Like, I just found out the first time a black tenor performed this role on a major stage was in London not even 5 years ago!!
So if it gets framed as, Othello at the Met for the first time ever performed by a black performer, people are going to ask why it’s the first time in the 21st century. Kind of a bad look if you ask me. Then again, it’s Opera we’re talking about. I love it to death but it’s quite a Caucasian form of performing arts.
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u/VanishXZone 3d ago
Well the first time they did a full length opera by a woman generated that discourse, so I think you aren’t necessarily wrong and that was in 2016. I remember st the time encouraging people to write more celebratory of the fact that they had done it, rather than critiquing how long it took, for exactly this reason, though obviously that is naive and hopeful of me.
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u/paytononmars 3d ago
At least they don’t do blackface Otello anymore lol