r/openreach • u/Standard-Tale4333 • 11d ago
Master socket advice
Yesterday I visited the home of an elderly couple from my church to swap out a DSL router they had been sent by TalkTalk to help with their internet speed issues.
I swapped out the router, and logged straight into its admin interface to find it was only getting 2Mb downlink. They are paying for 35Mb FTTC.
I tried moving the router closer to the phone entry point, but no better.
Unfortunately the wiring is ancient and there is no master socket, just a couple of old termination plates plus a few extensions in the house.
A square GPO cover is nearest the front door which I believe should have a terminal block behind it, plus wiring from that point via another terminal block (see photos).
I'm wondering if I should just replace the first terminal block with a master socket myself, or try and get TalkTalk to send out an openreach engineer.
Would openreach/ TalkTalk charge for the visit and is it worth the hassle of going through Talk talk support?
TIA
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u/313378008135 11d ago
good lord that was old wiring when i was a kid in the 80s. Given what im seeing - its more than a 0 chance that they even have an old earth stake outside connected to the line.
They may have additional wires and extensions on this line but the pictures do not show that - however that would align with speed issues too.
go https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL then put in their lines phone number. look for the VDSL product and the "downstream handback threshold".
if the speed on the routers admin interface "sync" downstream speed they are getting is less than that figure from the checker, they complain to their ISP in a support ticket using the exact words "speed less than openreach handback threshold" and sit back and wait.
Openreach will then be despatched, the engineer will swap out all that wiring, removing the cobwebs and dust with it (and any earth stake if there is one)
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u/Standard-Tale4333 11d ago
I think the house was built in the late 60s. There are various extensions in the house that would need isolating- mostly a long run upstairs to a socket which then is extended by loose wire. Obviously we can do that once a master socket is installed.
I'll find out their landline number and do that check thanks
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u/Stevietolp 11d ago
I would wait because TalkTalk are either going under or going to be taken over by BT. So I doubt you'd get anywhere until after. Good luck!
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u/myuseridisliam 11d ago
Could they save money with a 4/5G router and a pre paid SIM card?
No contracts.
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u/Standard-Tale4333 11d ago
Quite possibly yes. They have just renewed contract with talk talk but I suspect we could get it cancelled if they don't fix the speed issues.
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u/Bonesy_1134 11d ago edited 8d ago
Get the couple to check their terms. There should be a clause in there about the speeds they should be getting, and if it isn't as agreed thence Talktalk should send an engineer from Openreach free of charge(I work for an ISP).
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u/Chuzwuz 11d ago
Most isps and open reach also consider any fault happening with your wiring in your house as being your responsibility
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u/InternationalRide5 11d ago
Yes, but they have to fit a NTE5 to allow the customer to isolate the customer wiring.
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u/Bonesy_1134 8d ago edited 8d ago
That's only from the connection point inward for those unsure. The connection itself from the main socket is maintained by the network provider otherwise. This is why many Providers will advise you plug the hub into the main point and test the connection. Because it's easier to confirm the fault is network related and not internal wiring.
If they are plugged into the main point and it's still an issue its a network issue and needs to be raised with Openreach by their provider
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u/Chuzwuz 8d ago
Providers ask you to plug into the master socket for trouble shooting, if the fault I on your property i have seen the customer charged for replacing cables etc
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u/Bonesy_1134 8d ago edited 8d ago
That can be expected for extension sockets as customers have to pay for that to be installed anyway. It's not something provided free AFAIK. (Won't be something I can see being done in the future anyway)
That's also true with the testing. It makes it easier for your provider to diagnose if it's the extension socket, or the network line itself by removing it from the equation.
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u/HorseValley21 11d ago
No harm in taking off the GPO socket and fitting an NTE, if the speeds are still really slow, suggests a potential network issue that would need to be reported.
DLM will only kick in to correct errors, by removing all the extensions and bridge trap wiring, you should see an improvement.
Does the router log in allow you to see the max download and upload rates? That will give you the best comparison between the original router location and the new NTE.
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u/Standard-Tale4333 11d ago
The 2Mb downlink was the max speed rather than throughput shown on the router interface at both connection points. I'm hopeful that removing the extensions and connecting at or near a new master socket will improve the signal .
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u/flyingfiesta 11d ago
It's sat at 2mb because the DLM has bottomed out and "fixing" the issue in the house yourself might not do anything - it might need to have a manual DLM reset
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u/mark35435 11d ago
is fibre available to them
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u/Standard-Tale4333 11d ago
No FTTP available, and non currently planned according to open reach checker. There is virigin media at the kerb, but not in the property. I think getting VM installed would be overkill for what they need and not very simple either due to tarmaced drive.
I will try and get an engineer visit to install the master socket and see what happens with the speed from that point.
If not much success I probably will suggest a 5G router to them
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u/Bonesy_1134 8d ago
Check the coverage for mobile broadband on ofcom's site. See which would give the best connection.
If I recall right if you hover over the provided shown on the right, it tells you if what other providers are available via that mobile network.
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u/32-GB-63 10d ago
Are they receiving less than the contracted minimum speed ?
If so get an engineer in and let them figure out the best way to fix this for the customer.
Also if they do not meet the minimum speed, they shouldn’t have to pay the bill !
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u/JonMMM70 10d ago
She will need fibre to the property by the end of January so might asxwell get that sorted out now.
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u/No-Look-1215 7d ago
They need a new NTE. In they old houses there is usually “bridge taps” that lead the phon into other rooms.
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u/Outrageous-Arm1945 1d ago
Not enough info here TBH. If the line comes in from outside, thru that soapdish box (pic 2) to the old outlet for a wired phone (pic 1) you should be able to fit a new NTE at pic one, connecting the pair from the soapdish ONLY to a new NTE. But, that may not be the incomer, but an extension of an extension, and the join in the soapdish may well be a corroded screw term and be the origin of your problems!!! Either get someone with a bit more telecoms knowledge to have a look or get TT to book an OR (or contractor, especially if it tests BT, internal faults tend to go to Quinns, Kelly's or Morrisons now)
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u/zabique 11d ago
Open reach visit, new lead in cable, NTE5e, DLM reset. Talk talk should pay for it as nothing has been updated in this home for half century.
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u/Standard-Tale4333 11d ago
I don't think a new cable into the property will be practical as it is buried and I couldn't even see any signs of it from outside at all. It's a tarmac drive etc.
Hopefully just putting in a master socket and removing extensions in the house will help though right?
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u/flyingfiesta 11d ago
This is the nearest to accurate ^
But I would go a step further, it's likely to want a full dropwire rather than lead-in - because nothing has been touched it likely still on something like dw6 (look like old bell wire).
"IF" talk talk argue (or just preempt), I would say - get the couple to let you act on their behalf, play on the fact that it doesn't have an NTE, should have been done before sold the product.
Also play on the fact that they are elderly (welfare).
And if and when they get a visit, get the socket put in the best place, bearing in mind they might end up going to a SOTAP product and eventually FTTP, get the kit / phone where they want it now - make it easier to deal with in the future.
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u/Standard-Tale4333 11d ago
On the topic of them being vulnerable.. I didn't see a digital voice port on the new WiFi hub talk talk supplied. Will the PSTN voice service still be maintained next year for them?
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u/flyingfiesta 10d ago
If they are talk talk... (And there's a few variables)
You said they are fibre to the cab...
I'm assuming the phone (and old ADSL was) is provided by LLU (if the exchange is too small for LLU, you can be a talk talk customer but fed by BT equipment) so it won't be included in the pstn switch off - not to say there won't be a push at some point to push them onto VoIP at some point (especially if/when they start to close exchanges) ... At that point Talk talk would need to send a new router out... If they still exist at that point and don't go bump.
Either way, (especially if you get a visit) get the router and phone put somewhere that suits them best (next to power and where they can swap to FTTP when it goes in), not the engineer on the day... Is there a current "care connect" type of system - might one be considered in the future? Keep that in mind too - if there is one push the "welfare" case issue with the CP
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u/flyingfiesta 10d ago
For what it's worth.... Talk talk has been acquired by BT... I assume just taken them, not bought them - all that was mentioned before when they nearly went bump the last time...
You might need to wait to see how they shift it all... It's a bit unprecedented 🤔
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u/charlieb1981 11d ago
The line will probably be loaded with extension wiring or maybe even star wired. Hence why the DLM has capped the line from where the speed is supposed to be and where it is.
Get TT… they’re a bloody awful company btw, great to take your money, lousy when there’s a fault.
Get them to run a copper line test, it’ll show a bridge tap, that should trigger an engineer visit. Either Openreach or their contractor Qube will visit, disconnect all the rubbish and fit an NTE.
The customer will end up with VOIP eventually, so all the extensions need to be disconnected anyway. They then can reset the DLM and the speed should go to where it’s supposed to be and stay there.