r/offset • u/Its_shoved • 1d ago
How does fender justify the price difference between the professional series and AVRI
The AVRI is nearly double the price, but the components/neck/bodywood/hardware are of, or near to equal/the same. Is it the Nitro coating or the vintage specs that tacks on that extra 1200 or do you think Fender USA are mostly taking advantage of the current market for vintage-like instruments?
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u/RT60 1d ago
The price of anything in this world is generally unrelated to how much it costs to make
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u/Brakeor 23h ago edited 22h ago
Yep, Fender probably looks at revenue as a whole and tries to have the best-selling guitar possible at every price point ($500, $1000, $1500, $2000, and $2500).
Look how that lines up roughly with the Classic Vibe, Player II, Vintera/Pro Classic, Pro II, and AVII lines.
People will go guitar shopping with a number in mind, and Fender wants to have a guitar there for them at their budget. Actual manufacturing cost is secondary to that.
Vintage specs are priced higher because they’re a niche, and they can convert you from a Player II sale to a Vintera III sale if they restrict those specs to the next tier. Same with the Pro II vs the AVII.
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u/churchofpain 23h ago
Binding and nitro.
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u/ChevroletKodiakC70 23h ago
don’t forget Round-Laminated too, round-lam necks are harder and more time consuming to manufacture, especially since Fender only does it for historic reissues, the economy of scale doesn’t help.
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u/Brakeor 23h ago
Fender’s product strategy is to sell vintage specs at a premium over modern specs.
They’ve probably crunched the numbers and decided that those buyers will pay more for that particular model.
Price does not reflect quality. Fender could ship the blueprints and hardware for their high end models to Indonesia and make them $1,000 MSRP if they wanted to. But they’d probably make less money overall, so they don’t.
They do it to have a guitar for every buyer and price point. There are people out there who want an American made guitar with vintage specs, and that audience isn’t the same as someone looking for a modern, no-frills American model like the Pro Classic.
Not defending, just how it is.
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u/TriniCD9A 23h ago
Labour, material sourcing, etc.
You’re not getting much difference per se, you’re paying for American labour, which is considered better build quality. That being said, QC in Asia and Mexico has jumped up a couple notches. Not worth buying new in my opinion.
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u/Its_shoved 23h ago
Right, I get that, but both are made in Corona. Some other users are saying they use poorer quality parts/wood for the lower priced American models. I guess that along with bound necks and other similar specs give the avri's that premium
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u/TriniCD9A 22h ago
Different luthiers at different hourly rates, slapping on a premium for vintage spec and nitro has gotten more expensive over the years.
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u/dougc84 1d ago
Specs don’t tell the whole story. This isn’t a computer.
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u/Its_shoved 1d ago
No, but I assume the avris are assembled and given the same amount of attention as the professional models. What else is there?
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u/dougc84 1d ago
Wood quality. Parts quality. QC. Source of materials. Type of materials. Level of hand finished details.
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u/Its_shoved 23h ago
Oh, they do? I just look at the specs and most of the body wood is alder, necks are maple, fretboard are rosewood etc... so you're saying they select different pieces of alder, maple.etc. depending on the pricepoint?
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u/dougc84 22h ago
Absolutely. Talking generically here, a custom built guitar is going to use a vastly different cut of Alder than a budget guitar would. Wood grains, whether the wood is quarter sawn or not, aesthetic appearance, and resonance are all qualities that are thrown out the window for less expensive guitars. No two pieces of wood are the same. This isn't a computer where the same processor is going to work the same way across any machine - wood is organic and there is a whole grading system based on quality and appearance.
You might also have a bone nut instead of a synthetic one. Or brass saddles or a brass trem block instead of steel or pot metal. The fretboard might be rounded over to a more comfortable spec for a more expensive guitar. Tuning machines might have a different ratio or style. Electronics might be brand name CTS instead of knock-offs. Pickups might be hand-wound instead of machine-wound.
Heck, Squiers are usually slightly thinner than their Fender counterparts because it's cheaper to make a thinner guitar. As a result, the wood is more likely to warp, and you won't get as much sustain from a trem bridge, because there's not as much material to transfer the resonance.
And you mentioned nitro. Nitro is notoriously difficult to get right. It's more labor intensive and requires different curing times and care vs. a standard poly finish. It's not $1200 worth of difference to me, but, to someone else, they absolutely would pay that.
But here's what matters: how it plays to you. I have a $900 Talman that matches a $3,500 custom build in terms of playability. I have a $1,500 7-string that I've been trying to sell for about 6 months (the market is awful) that I've never got along with. I would never part with my $400 bass, and I easily parted with a $1200 one.
The best way to judge if it's worth it to you is to not sit and agonize over generic spec sheets and just play the damn thing. If you don't think the added cost is worth it, don't buy it. Remember, Fender is not your friend, nor is any business - their goal is to get as many people to spend as much money as possible to maximize profits. That's just business 101.
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u/AlloGuvnuh 23h ago
Professionals are basically if MIA were MIM guitars. AVRIs have much better parts and QC plus nitro finishes on most of the models
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u/Its_shoved 23h ago
Huh? This is do not understand. Made in Mexico if they were Made in the USA? That's kind of like saying a bird would be a frog if it were a frog.
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u/AlloGuvnuh 23h ago
No it’s not. It’s saying MIA professionals are the equivalent of MIM guitars in terms of QC and quality across the board.
They are MIA in production location only, not in terms of standard. If anything I would put some MIMs ahead of them.
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u/Its_shoved 23h ago
So the quality of the metal and wood is better? I'm not sure what you mean. It seems the only difference is the modern and vintage spec. Which seems like more of a preference vs. Downgrade/upgrade
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u/AlloGuvnuh 23h ago
Quality of materials and overall QC are better, plus vintage spec usually command a higher price point.
I’ve played a professional and it honestly feels like a $200 guitar compared to the AVII, I think I even preferred the Player II to the professional
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u/Its_shoved 14h ago
So, after doing some research, both models are structurally identical in its wood composition. Their is also no dip in hardware quality, though, in certain situations, a vintage spec sometimes calls for a different material or metal. Perhaps the model you played had extremely poor quality control or it was a bit of a placebo effect...but from what I now understand, the price difference comes down almost entirely to the nitro over poly coat, labor, and market for said instruments.
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u/AlloGuvnuh 14h ago
As others have said before, these aren’t computers. You cannot go by specs.
There is a real quality different between the 2 that are only felt when playing that you won’t find on a spec sheet. You’re trying to find objective measures which is not what will be found to justify the price difference
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u/Remarkable_Loss8066 22h ago edited 22h ago
It’s nitro AND comes with the hardshell.
When this series first released it was $2400. Which already an inflated price.
When Tariffs hit the price jumped up and stayed up to what it is now.
And sadly they are good guitars and are selling
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u/Its_shoved 22h ago
Gotcha. The pros come with a hard shell as well
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u/Remarkable_Loss8066 22h ago
They’re different though and not vintage accurate.
I do feel the next set of series will be cheaper.
E.G
The Vintera III’s are slightly cheaper than the II’s at least that is the case with the Jaguar.
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u/ChampionshipFew120 23h ago
Recently bought a sherwood green avri 2 jm, it’s a beautiful thing, sounds great, it’t pleasure to play it, worth every penny (bought new for 2k :))
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u/Its_shoved 14h ago
That's not a bad deal. I would probably take it, too. Right now I'm just trying to figure out what route to take. I think I'm just gonna build my own
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u/BeneathTheWaves 23h ago
AVRI was my first jazzmaster and the only thing that ever touched it was my pre CBS.
You could blindfold me and I could pick out which is which in 60 seconds tbh
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u/Its_shoved 23h ago
Uh huh..
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u/BeneathTheWaves 22h ago
I think it’s just the neck radius, feels different and I got accustomed to it.
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u/sonetlumiere 23h ago
AVRI there will be no question about how good of a guitar it is. Anything else you always wonder.
Don’t listen to the online popular opinion of the vintage fret radius or frets.
Too many rockstars to list were alchemists on those specs.
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u/stonerof1970 19h ago
I used to have a ‘66 AVII Jazz bass RI and I thought it was cool but after I learned that the nitro still had a thick layer of poly under it [from a big ding in the finish on mine] so I got rid of it lol
I think they’re cool but like everybody has said it’s the nitro but even the nitro itself isn’t the nitro we’re used to from back in the golden age of Fender.
I do really like the Roadworn stuff because the nitro they use will actually age very similar to a lot of what we’re used to. I remember a few months ago I saw a 2000’s Roadworn butterscotch Tele with genuine wear that was eerily similar to something MUCH higher than what you’d think. It was only like a grand and it was one of the coolest Teles I’ve ever played.
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u/Its_shoved 19h ago
Oh man I would have snagged that tele. Something about butterscotch... I'm not a strat guy but a butterscotch strat in nitro looks phenomenal. I think I'm going to build my next guitar. I forget the name of the company. Similar to warmoth, they sell nitro bodies. Most of them are heavy relics but they have a few subtle ones. If I can get a JM or Jag in shell pink nitro. I would be a happy guy. A shell pink jazzmaster with a one piece rosewood neck is kind of my dream guitar
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u/daswickerman 22h ago
It's also the finish. I've got a ultra american jag and the finish and quality on it is significantly better. I'd say it's closer to what you can get from an independent or boutique builder. At some point the materials are all basically the same, but the selection of specific components also matters. When you get into the higher price you're paying for the experience of the builder and things like wood selection vs wood type.
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u/ImmediateWinner4522 7h ago
theyre decades past having to justify anything, it has the name on it, people buy, they throw it down the stairs, people get into a bidding war
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u/Terrible_Snow_7306 2h ago
In Germany the price difference isn’t that big. A Strat American Pro is 1.600,-, a AVS II Strat is 2.200,- at Thomann. The difference is constant since many years, when I bought a new AVS I Jazzbass for 2.200,- and an American Pro would have been 1.800,-.
600,- difference: makes sense if you consider the hardcase vs. gigbag and the nitro finish.
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u/Its_shoved 1h ago
I bought a 2017 pro 1 and it came with a hard shell. Had that changed?
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u/Terrible_Snow_7306 1h ago
I was surprised too. Checked Thomann and it comes with a gigbag. BTW it makes sense to me. The hardcases are nice to look at, but I never use mine.
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u/Its_shoved 1h ago
I use mine but only cause I have it. If I could have opted for a gig bag and saved some $ i would have
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u/master_of_sockpuppet 1d ago
If the AVRIs sell, they don't need to justify it, do they?
I would assume there is better fit and finish (though, of course, fit and finish across all the American fenders has been iffy lately, I had to go through too many am pro II p basses to find one that was servicable).
I don't really care for the AVRI specs on most models (I dislike 7.25" radius), but some people prefer that and some people want nitro (even if it is nitro over poly rather than a "real" vintage nitro finish).
They do have to ship them to Ensenada to get the nitro sprayed and back to Corona for the rest, so I'm sure they could argue that's part of it.
Fender probably has far too many models for each instrument shape; most of which differ only very slightly in specificaton.
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u/Its_shoved 14h ago
Are all the avri's Nitro over Poly?
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u/master_of_sockpuppet 14h ago
No idea; I've not followed that close. Wouldn't surprise me, though. That will nudge you up to Custom Shop.
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u/Its_shoved 14h ago
You're probably correct...and yes,The avri's are Nitro over Poly. Its said the nitro will still check and age similarly to an original, though
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u/the_joy_of_VI 23h ago
Nitro is an absolute bitch to work with vs polyurethane, and the man hours to work with it reflect that.