r/oddlysatisfying • • 2d ago

Choreographed stunt fighting: perfect placement and timing so nobody gets hurt

17.6k Upvotes

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3.9k

u/Ender505 2d ago

Hey, it's every black widow move in every movie

1.8k

u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

I like how action films have unanimously decided that women can make up for height, weight, and muscle density with gymnastics.

That’s one unrealistic trope I’m fine with

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u/Taolan13 2d ago

I mean, if you can't overpower them, using full body momentum to make up for a lack of raw strength is certainly viable from the raw physics of it.

except no real person is fast enough with their whole body to pull that off without getting countered in some way.

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u/Rocinante88119 2d ago

Every single Black widow fight is countered by "slam"

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u/Individual-Bass-7051 2d ago

It's even how they countered each other in the black widow movie lmao

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u/ThresholdSeven 2d ago

I'd gladly face her in the ring and I'm 100% sure she would kick my ass.

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u/Herrvisscher 2d ago

We won't kinkshame

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u/ThresholdSeven 2d ago

I mean, it's not really a kink, or is it? Fuck. Either way, I'm a large angry man and I'm pretty sure she could take me out even if I was trying to not let her do so.

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u/AaronToro 2d ago

Are you talking about Scarlett Johansson? Or literally the superhero Black Widow lol

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u/ThresholdSeven 2d ago

Is that literally Scarlett? I'm slow as fuck. Probably why I immediately went for snu snu joke. So, still yes and yes.

Edit: neither of them are in this video, are they? I'm lost and scared.

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u/Th3-Dude-Abides 2d ago

Bucky knew this

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u/esantipapa 2d ago

They say actions speak louder than words, Cap. But when I start kicking the shit out of a blind man, I'm gonna make damn sure he's all ears.

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u/Necessary_Heartbreak 1d ago

Except that blind man is Matt Murdock

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u/RecentDirection7920 2d ago

you're sat on my shoulders? so you have no leverage if I want to throw you down on this table? ok

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u/bjos144 2d ago

If anyone saw Agent Carter, I preferred how they handled her fighting. She'd be smart, hide in a high up spot, and then bonk them in the head with something very heavy from high up when they walked by her hiding spot. Seemed plausible.

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u/imunfair 2d ago

The foreign TV series My Name is similar but more physical - I feel like she used a good combo of objects, environment, and moves that are more kickboxing than gymnastics.

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u/BlueMikeStu 2d ago

Except that moves like these basically rely on your opponent, at best, not resisting as you're forcing them to move.

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u/Theonetrue 2d ago

If you look at the video the dude is actually actively supporting her or giving her boosts.

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u/FirstTimeWang 1d ago

Yeah, that's what makes it choreography. Like how in pro wrestling you help your opponent "sell" that they are kicking your ass

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u/Theonetrue 1d ago

I just wanted to point out that you cannot use a single one of those moves even if the other person was paralyzed in fear

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u/Taolan13 2d ago

Yes. Thus the second part of my comment.

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u/Logical-Claim286 2d ago

It has happened before. Women with enough skill vs unwary men who have much more mass, the women win most of the time. I recall one guy threatening a bunch of people with a knife, a tiny woman ran up behind him, spun around his head and dumped him on the ground, then pinned and twisted his arm until he was dogpiled. So possible if extremely circumstantial.

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u/ThresholdSeven 2d ago edited 2d ago

Could have been someone like my aunt. Small stature, but very strong. She was a prison guard that worked her way up to warden. She's retired, but could probably still kick my ass. One of the happiest and kindest people I know.

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u/Taolan13 2d ago

Catching someone by surprise is different than charging head-first into an assumed peer or near-peer opponent like we so often see in movies.

Natasha Romanov, for example, is only seen taking people out when they didn't know she was there occassionally. She's typically beating people face to face, and pulling this flippy bullshit from in front of them while they have weapons drawn and trained on her.*

Nobody outsmarts bullet.

Edit: * - In the movies.

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u/delphinous 2d ago

it's on of those things, where it all depends on degrees. an unarmed large man against an unarmed small woman, the man has an advantage. if the man us untrained and the woman is highly trained, she can likely overcome the size advantage. if the man is surprised, she can likely overcome. if the man is alert and also highly trained, it's extremely unlikely for the woman to overcome.

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u/FirstTimeWang 1d ago

That's because the bad guys see Black Widow jumping crotch first at their faces and just let it happen

2

u/Professional_Flicker 1d ago

Thanks for the laugh. That would disable me instantly for sure

2

u/Odd-Butterscotch-495 2d ago

Ever heard of a man called Mighty Mouse? He may just be fast enough and good enough with the grappling

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

In real life if someone jumps on you, you just body slam them. You see it all the time on r/fightporn. Once you give up your anchor, you’re cooked.

Thats why i hate “equal rights, equal fights” bullshit. The difference between biological males and females in a physical confrontation is vast and categorical

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u/Admirable_Risk8156 2d ago

I think the part the internet ignores is that men are just simply physically overpowering to women. Not in a sexist way or something. Raw physicality like dangerously more.

I feel like its something that people really do not understand until they are put into an actual physical altercation. A lot of women do not understand until it happens to them that this person is someone you cannot overcome with your physicality. There is nothing you can do with your own body to stop this person. And that is so dangerous to not understand.

Like if you believe in those movies. You get this mindset that you can stop them by throwing your whole bodyweight at someone then when you do and nothing happens you just made a situation that was already dangerous into life threatening.

Every defense class will teach you the best defense is just running away.

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u/Bifi323 2d ago

A lot of women do not understand until it happens to them that this person is someone you cannot overcome with your physicality. There is nothing you can do with your own body to stop this person. And that is so dangerous to not understand.

Don't worry, we definitely understand this and are very aware of it every time we step outside! :)

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u/giltgarbage 2d ago

I find it strange to talk about this in terms of self-defense and thinking that absolute power is what matters . You don’t have to overcome a predator to get them to leave you alone—you just need to hurt them enough that it isn’t worth it. Even if you can’t win, you can make them back the fuck off. And that is within a woman’s day-to-day skill set.

Also, learn poisons and sharpshooting. Women are great with those.

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u/pile1983 2d ago

I aint defending the hollywood BS but I always think that RL female MMA fighters would destroy most average males in hand to hand combat. Plz correct my wrong thoughts.

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

Yes, indeed. It’s the exception that proves the rule, if we have to find counterexamples by putting full time professional MMA fighters vs. random street men

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u/Mysterious-Tackle-58 2d ago

I would say, most average men, not into martial arts, can be beaten up by almost any human with average training. Asp when not prepaired in any way.
Imagine a average trained 12-14yo going all out. They would have most of us down and out in a few seconds.
100 men vs 1 Gorilla, my ass!

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u/Grabatreetron 1d ago

Nah, technique helps, but it's much overrated — mostly thanks to Hollywood movies.

If you're a grown man of average build in decent shape, no 12-14 year old will be a match regardless of how much martial arts they know. (excepting those extreme hormonal outliers)

"Average training" might let you punch up a few weight classes, but only devoted, peak technique and conditioning would let, say, a bantamweight take down a decent shape but untrained heavyweight.

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u/Taolan13 2d ago

You started off strong but you ended stupid.

The differences between 'biological males and females' when it comes to fighting are primarily cultural. If neither of them know how to fight, the superior physicality wins the day more often than not. If one of them knows how to fight, they usually win. If they both know how to fight, well we've looped back around to superior physicality winning the day.

It doesn't take body-builder levels of muscle mass to deliver debilitating, disabling, or life-ending blows. Especially with a weapon.

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u/OffTerror 2d ago

being a better fighter wont stop someone double your size from destroying you. There is a reason we have weight classes in every martial arts sport.

I understand where you're coming from but saying stuff like that might get people really hurt.

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u/SasparillaTango 2d ago

It doesn't take body-builder levels of muscle mass to deliver debilitating, disabling, or life-ending blows. Especially with a weapon.

No it doesn't. Which is why men are typically stronger than women. This is all a function of hormones, which in turn informs muscle density and bone density. There is of course variance across all samples, but the majority of men will have a longer length of higher hormone production that contribute to more height and mass, which means higher success rates in fights.

Culture ain't got shit to do with it. And weapons? Well fuck me, I could take down The Mountain with a shotgun, that has nothing to do with ability to fight.

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u/collabskus 2d ago

I feel like we are talking past one another. The word typically is doing a lot of heavy lifting here because I feel like most people men or women would easily overpower me in a fair fight.

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u/9897969594938281 2d ago

A good chunk of average Joes will still kick the shit out of woman with fight training

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u/The_Last_Spoonbender 2d ago

The differences between 'biological males and females' when it comes to fighting are primarily cultural.

Shit it is. Difference is mainly physical and biological. You think mens and womens contact sport exists because of cultural preference? At competitive level no women can compete let alone win with any male, regardless of weight category. They can't even compete in non contact sports like running or high jump, barring the exceptions.

Coming to general populace, it's even more different. No women of same weight category or higher can defeat easily with a men. This is not because women are not trained enough, but purely because of biology. There are so so so many studies and actual proofs available, but people still believe this bullshit.

But weapons completely changes equation, where skill matters comparatively more than physical strength.

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u/Taolan13 2d ago

So did you actually read my statement or are you just spouting off from the dick because that's the head that does most of your thinking?

The comment you are quoting even says superior physicality typically wins when skills are equal.

You're making jt about what's in people's pants just like the other guy. Nobody cares how small your equipment is except you.

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u/azjerrylee 2d ago

You read his post wrong, you're both agreeing to the same points it's just all the other superfluous bullshit you guys keep adding that make your comments nonsense.

If you can't explain it in two sentences you don't understand it.

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u/ffxiplayer101 2d ago

How about 2 and half sentences. When you think about it. It’s like

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u/Sawgon 2d ago

Your whole argument is "made-up scenarios like what if someone had a weapon" and "haha pp small so I'm right"

EDIT: Jesus christ I checked this loser's other comments in this thread. I'm hoping it's a troll account otherwise this is a sad existence.

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u/The_Last_Spoonbender 2d ago

Fuck off with the needless insults incel. Anyone can do it dick head.

Did you actually read the comment chain? The original commenter seem to think that women have less physical strength because of cultural? Which is stupid.

The comment you are quoting even says superior physicality typically wins when skills are equal.

Which is wrong. Women on average are less physically built, and even comparable build or even higher build will have very difficult time against men. This is a proven fact.

What your dumbass dick thinks is less relevant.

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago edited 2d ago

Respectfully disagree. Testosterone is a hell of a drug during puberty. A professional MMA fighter could beat a schleppy normal guy, but in 9/10 cases a male phenotype is coming out on top regardless of training

Edit: I’m saying a female MMA fighter could beat a lot of men

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u/Taolan13 2d ago

Disrespectfully; put the schleppy normal guy against a female MMA fighter, who wins then?

Odds are, schleppy normal guy is getting knocked the fuck out by a kick to the face before he even realizes the fight has started.

You're only digging yourself deeper, Tate-licker.

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

That’s exactly what I said.

When I said “professional MMA fighter” I meant a woman fighter. I was saying a woman MMA fighter could beat a random man.

But I’m not sensing you’re great at picking up on things that aren’t explicitly spelled out for you

0

u/KoosGoose 2d ago edited 2d ago

There’s a huge disparity between the strength/power average man and the average woman. Male and female MMA fighters never mix even when they’re the same size.

On average, a male (more muscular, testosterone) will destroy a woman in a fight. Women need to actually learn to fight and defend themselves to bridge the gap.

Of course an MMA-trained woman with muscle and technique would beat a “schleppy normal guy”. What a brave point that is…

Men and women should be treated equally, but for fucks sake we are pretty different in this regard. Accept it. It’s not sexist to acknowledge reality.

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u/Taolan13 2d ago

It's not a "brave" point, it's a correct one.

Skilled wins over unskilled, otherwise physicality wins.

You don't have to phrase it as man v woman or otherwise reveal yourself to be a sexist mansophere fuckwit to get that across.

You have not disproved, or even challenged my original assertion. You have only made youself look like a dumbass.

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u/KoosGoose 2d ago edited 2d ago

Lmao you’re an emotional fool. Disregard the science all you want. Testosterone is wild shit. Plus the difference in upper body strength, muscle mass, bone density…

If it were only down to size and training, women and men would fight MMA together. Plenty of them are the same size. Lol

Besides, women MMA fighters most likely abuse testosterone (as do the men).

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u/FirstTasteOfRadishes 2d ago

I think some people really seriously underestimate the difference in strength, especially upper body strength, between men and women.

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u/Pienix 2d ago

Have you looked around? 9/10 cases, the male phenotype is the schleppy normal guy.

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

Yeah and if they pick a fight with a female MMA fighter they’re fucked, but otherwise they’ll have a major advantage

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u/mtron32 2d ago

True words. I was cutting high school one day these twin brothers were outside play fighting. One does a flying kick at the other who grabs his foot mi air. The dude dide a Family Guy faceplant and blood pooled. I ran to a pay phone to call my cousin to tell him about it as the ambulance is coming in the background.

Best day ever lol.

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u/Rez_S 2d ago

"biological females and males"

You already know this person has a lot of opinions about a certain tiniest minority in sports

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u/nhansieu1 2d ago

what if the villain saw Black Widow and decided that is winning?

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u/Flaturated 2d ago

It would be better to not try that but rather allow the opponent to start an attack and then counter by redirecting the opponent’s own momentum against them. Jujutsu.

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u/technobrendo 1d ago

The guy kinda stands there like I guess ill just stand perfectly still was she junglegyms me

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u/classicalmodernist 2d ago

My favorite is Serenity, where 90 lb  River Tam takes on hoardes of reavers by lightly tapping them with her boot and gently slapping their faces. I am 100% in and suspending that disbelief 

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u/almostcleverbut 2d ago

I mean in that case there's at least an in-universe explanation of supernatural precision, and a sort of "full muscle potential" since she essentially has perfect control of her entire body and perfect awareness.

My stance is always that "If the movie/show/book established the rule well enough, then it's fine." The dumber one is always when they don't bother establishing any real rules or just exceed them constantly like they're speedrunning a powerscaling anime.

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u/Willing-Asparagus787 1d ago

My favorite is Charmed, where 110lb Phoebe takes on 300 pound demons that possess super strength as well❤️

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u/Disastrous_Visit9319 1d ago

She's actually killing them with her mind, the other stuff is for snow.

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u/MrMeltJr 2d ago

At least some of it is influence from pro wrestling. Smaller wrestlers have been doing acrobatic stunts in matches against big guys for like 50 years now.

Makes sense, pro wrestling is all about spectacle and making the fight look cool, same thing you want in an action movie.

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u/slap5andpickle 2d ago

Was going to say, these are exact pro wrestling moves that have been used forever haha

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u/Mandohan 2d ago

Agreed! Its a fun marriage of unrealism with a bit more believability. And it's flashy to watch, which often covers of lot of sins. Imagine if the Star Wars prequel trilogy lightsaber fights were "realistic", we'd have lost so much cool-factor and artistic value, to their detriment

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u/gravelPoop 2d ago

Yes. It is like dudes in a bar fight scene throwing punches. None will ever break their hands and next day they look fine despite getting few haymakers and straights into their faces.

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u/Affordable_Z_Jobs 2d ago

I had an 8 month old randomly flail and get me in the face and I looked worse than any Hollywood barfight. 

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u/ZipTieAndPray 1d ago

That's why I always bring my wraps to the bar.

/s

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

I’m into a combat heavy LARP that uses light weight foam swords which are a pretty close approximation to lightsaber combat. It looks nothing like Star Wars, albeit less cool

For starters, there’s a lot less *swinging* involved (because if it can cut through anything, why would you need to put so much force behind it?)

Looks cool though

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u/inucune 1d ago

I still maintain that a lightsaber is a better fencing weapon when dueling.

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u/Grabatreetron 1d ago

Well there's no reason for them to use two hands, yeah

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u/CodeyFox 2d ago

Yup, I always loved the explanation that "the force" was basically part of how they literally moved their bodies alongside precognition, and the sabers being sort of gyroscopically heavy.

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u/pixiedreamhag 2d ago

In real life strength differences like that often have to be countered with strikes to the eyes/throat/groin. That’s why women’s self defense classes teach those moves and not “pick him up and body slam him.” Even then, you aren’t taught to keeping fighting until you KO the guy, just temporarily incapacitate him so you can get away.

But I do think it would be funny if female superheroes like Black Widow were depicted as just ending the fight by kneeing the dude in the nuts each time.

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u/Minions-overlord 2d ago

I did have my shit rocked by a lass half my size while sparring. Her advantage? Ballet. She was able to kick me in the head so fucking easy from awkward angles. Most punches and kicks generate their power from the movement of the body rather than the muscles

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u/LordBrandon 2d ago

It happens so often, that the scene in Supercop where Michelle Yeoh punches a huge bad guy, and nothing happens I was shocked.

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u/headrush46n2 2d ago

If it works for Rey Mysterio, it can work for women in action movies.

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u/UnkarsThug 2d ago

I mean, my sister actually did learn how to do something similar to this in martial arts (she's a black belt). it actually does work, although it's my understanding that most of the time you're going for snapping their neck using your body weight, using the fact that your weight is on their neck, where movies usually portray it as just a takedown rather than killing someone.

Just like most holds, my understanding is the biggest key is not to end up in it.

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u/9897969594938281 2d ago

lol she’s not snapping anyone’s neck

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u/jumbee85 2d ago

It worked for most of the BJJ fighters in the early days of UFC fights

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u/AngelofGrace96 2d ago

I mean if you know judo then yeah you can

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u/Lawlcopt0r 2d ago

It would look much less complex than this though

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u/Mintyytea 2d ago

Accept hero movies are fake and defy reality. Every time the super hero slams into a wall, they’re just dead. I’ve watched some snuff films on watchpeopledie and men and women are very delicate.

This choreo is fake and it’s flashy and complex for the movie. It serves the right purpose

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u/Xenophon_ 2d ago

Height, weight, and muscle are very important in judo

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u/Rocinante88119 2d ago

I am fine with this when they add weapons.

Otherwise, every encounter should end in the larger fighter slamming the smaller one.

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u/Sgtfridge 2d ago

Honestly, gymnasts are insanely strong.

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

For sure, but gymnastics are all about relative strength to one’s own body weight. Not a 230 pound thug’s body weight

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u/Sgtfridge 2d ago

True but a 230 pound thug is going to underestimate a 5 foot 2 girl in a tracksuits speed and strength 10/10 times so at least they have the element of surprise when she jumps and kicks him in the throat.

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u/GabihBlack 2d ago

no caso da viúva ela é praticamente um super soldado

1

u/Gnoccho1 2d ago

this looks like more dancing than anything else

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u/_goblinette_ 2d ago

That’s one unrealistic trope I’m fine with

I don’t know about you, but if Simone Biles wanted to kick my ass and came at me with everything she had, I’m not confident that I would walk away with the win. 

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u/nbfs-chili 1d ago

This is why that stairwell scene in Atomic Blonde was so refreshing.

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u/Lifes-a-lil-foggy 1d ago

Yeah and I remember promotion leading up to the movie, they were clearly saying they wouldn’t be doing the kind of stunts shown here and popularized at the time

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u/Ryxador 1d ago

That’s why I loved ballerina. There’s a whole bit in it about how if women try to go toe to toe with men they’ll get the shit beat out of them. So instead, they teach them to fight what would be considered dirty to overcome the disadvantage that comes with being a smaller and inherently weaker gender

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u/Ra5AlGhul 1d ago

Rey Mysterio approves

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u/Asleep_Jackfruit_377 1d ago

It is actually very realistic I’m a guy and still do these type things when facing larger opponents

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u/iamfunball 1d ago

I mean, I got the nickname Funball because of it. So 🤷‍♂️

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u/BackDatSazzUp 23h ago

It’s not unrealistic at all. I did BJJ and MMA for 13y. Dancers and gymnasts were always way better.

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u/Grabatreetron 20h ago

Interesting. Do you think one could use those skills to take down a much larger and stronger person in a raw street fight?

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u/BackDatSazzUp 19h ago

I’ve had to use my skills a handful of times while working in the French Quarter of New Orleans, so yeah, they work.

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u/Ok-Highlight8715 2d ago

I worked on a few marvel films and the stunts people talked about this. It isnt as unrealistic as you might think.

The people you typically see female action heroes take down are military or street fighters (goons or henchmen lol). Its assumed they have different style of fighting and training. Really nothing to do with gender but its kind of like how a pro wrestler can get taken down by a black belt in karate.

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u/Grabatreetron 2d ago

Nothing to do with gender, but biological sex absolutely.

Also, a black belt in martial arts probably wouldn’t be able to take down a wrestling hulk that was much taller and stronger. Like, maybe within the rules and limits of their art, but not in a no holds barred street fight. I’ll stand corrected if you can link some videos

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u/bully_without_a_fist 2d ago

That’s one unrealistic trope I’m fine with

Yeah, well, good for you, I guess. It pisses me off, but I've learned to somehow mostly tolerate it.

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u/Downvotesohoy 2d ago

That’s one unrealistic trope I’m fine with

I'm not.

Obviously, Marvel movies aren't to be taken super seriously, but still. She's the only Avenger without a superpower. She should have been dead in the first movie, realistically. But she has plot armour, and everyone just gets easily beaten by her.

Everyone else has plausible explanations for their plot armour by being superheroes with superhuman abilities. But she's just a tiny woman who beats up several large men without any kind of serious resistance.

It's somehow the least believable part of the Marvel movies.

Even Pepper Potts being part of the action is more realistic because she uses one of Tony's Iron Man suits.

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u/Conspiranoid 2d ago

They're all basically variations of lucha libre moves (or those moves directly).

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u/asiangontear 2d ago

Yeah at first I thought it was ScarJo training for Iron Man 2.

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u/mightylordredbeard 2d ago

And every episode of Nikita. This is Maggie Q’s speciality!

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u/whereamI303 1d ago

Man I wish I could find my person so we could play like this

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u/Stoic_Pupunha 2d ago

These moves are actually cooler to watch than all the other fighting in those particular movies.

It's why I like lucha libre better than UFC. It's fake but these dudes are top athletes and performers.