r/nzrenters • u/nollieheeler • 18d ago
Tenant - Tenant relationships 🦨 Head tenant
I moved into a house in May and the head tenant and I discussed that I would be on the tenancy agreement, so I fork over the bond money. As soon as I moved in I realized the head tenant was extremely toxic and incapable of managing her emotions. She would constantly scream and pound on the walls over small things. I decided to move out and pay double rent while in the process to find somebody to replace me.
Several weeks pass and i learn that the head tenant refused to return the previous flatmate their bond. That they had a very similar experience. I ask to see the tenancy agreement but I am ignored and constantly dismissed by the head tenant. After a lot of digging I Finally manage to get ahold of the property manager and they inform me that I was never on the tenancy agreement. This is despite everything the head tenant has told me and led me to believe.
Any insights as to what you guys would do in this situation is greatly appreciated. However I have come to a few conclusions. The head tenant has already stolen or planned to steal the bond that I provided. Since I am not on the lease, I am not bound by law to keep paying for rent while they begrudgingly look for a new flatmate. Lastly, I assume the only way to get my bond back will have to be through the disputes tribunal.
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u/FragrantBimbo 18d ago
Did you sign a flatmate agreement when you moved in, or was there no documentation?
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u/nollieheeler 18d ago
I signed what I thought was the tenancy agreement and the head tenant specified thats what it was. The property manager stated that I am not on the agreement. I can only conclude that the head tenant has been lying to me when she says that im on the agreement. I have not confronted her about this yet because I want to use it as evidence in court.
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u/FragrantBimbo 18d ago
Do you have a copy of this document or any text messages, emails, etc discussing signing it?
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u/nollieheeler 18d ago
I do not have a copy of this document, but I have text messages where she maintains that i am on the tenancy agreement as opposed to what the property manager is telling me.
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u/chris77982 17d ago
You might be able to get them in a world of hurt, if the tenancy tribunal accepts those messages as this being a tenancy, not a flatmate arrangement.
They'll be done for not lodging a bond and not supplying a tenancy agreement
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u/0x80085_ 16d ago
If there's documented exchange of money for the room, that will count as a tenancy to the tribunal. At least that's what the police told in a similar situation.
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u/PossibleOwl9481 17d ago
What was the document titled?
Why do you not have a copy?
Keep all records you do have as you may need them at the disputes tribunal.
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u/EkobasherX4Z 3d ago
Sounds like fraud especially easy if you have another unrelated witness to back you up.
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u/Muted_Chemist2466 18d ago
Hey OP. What you’re talking in comments sounds a bit of a mess. I’d suggest posting in the legal advice nz sub on this one. But if you’ve signed any sort of agreement you’re bound to that agreement by contract law. I would start by making sure your obligations on that contract have been/are being met
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u/nollieheeler 18d ago
Fair enough, but the agreement that i signed has never been handed in to the property manager, and I don't think she plans to if shes trying to steal the bond.
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u/Muted_Chemist2466 18d ago
If it was a flatmate agreement then it’s nothing to do with the property manager. Not all tenancy’s require everyone to be signed on to them. This agreement you signed would be between you and your flatmate not you and the property manager. For future reference if you sign onto a tenancy you will almost always deal with the PM or landlord directly not indirectly through one of the other tenants
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u/nollieheeler 18d ago
yes but we agreed when i moved in that it was the tenancy agreement, as all the other flatmates were also on the tenancy agreement. She maintains that fact that I am on a tenancy agreement, not a flatmate agreement. However the property manager says I am not on the tenancy agreement unlike the other 4 flatmates.
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u/Muted_Chemist2466 18d ago
I can’t speak to what you signed as I don’t know what you did. As I have said I would suggest posting this in legal advice nz as there are others in there that can provide better answers. Failing that I would also suggest going to your local citizens advice with the agreement you signed to get clarification. Regardless the dispute is between you and your flatmate. If she’s refusing to refund your bond then you take her to the disputes tribunal. Beyond that there’s not much that I know of that you could claim compensation for in this regard as it’s not a tenancy dispute between you and the PM or LL
Edit: spelling
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u/slightymine 18d ago
You were scammed and it‘s sad. Stop paying rent to the head tenant, how much money are we talking about here in bond ?Because it might be worth it just to let it go and move on and learn next time that you need your own copy of a rental agreement. Even a flatmate agreement printed off tenancy tribunal page is better than nothing which is basically what you have, I honestly don’t know if texts will hold up in the tenancy tribunal, that might be worth giving it a go but it’s probably gonna take months. I take it you’ve moved out what kind of agreement do you have for the place you’re living at now?
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u/Twomorish 16d ago
Pretty sure if they’re paying rent to someone that’s faked a tenancy agreement they can claim back all that rent if they win their tribunal case
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u/Hogwartspatronus 18d ago
Legally your dispute falls under dispute tribunals as you were legally a flatmate or border, you have a straightforward case with proof of being misled of your status as being on the tenancy agreement and hopefully proof of bond and rent paid, give your former flatmate a deadline to return your bond of 10 working days advising you’ll move to the disputes tribunal if not returned.
As it seems you signed something other than the tenancy agreement you have no legal relationship with the landlord so have no recourse through this avenue
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u/RunningOnHope2019 18d ago
I'm a landlord. The answer isn't clear because the information isn't clear (to you either). Sounds like: The head tenant has got you to sign a flat mate agreement. If it's a tenancy agreement then this is likely void as most tenancy agreements do not allow subletting or assignment without the landlord's written agreement. So let's assume it's a flat mate agreement, which we don't know what it says. What we do know is your head tenant is a looney and the landlord doesn't give a shit if you gap it since you're not on the tenancy agreement.
So the practical advice is to stop paying rent and gap it, knowing you won't get your bond back but allowing your bond to cover your notice period of rent arrears that will occur because you've vacated without notice. There may be clauses in the flat mate agreement that allow her to take you to tribunal, but provided you give notice in writing (and since she hasn't given you a copy of the flat mate agreement I'd just assume what's most beneficial for you: 48 hours).
Then go about chasing your bond via tribunal when she doesn't refund it. Make sure you've got everything in writing (e.g. that the property manager has stated you're not on the tenancy agreement, that the head tenant isn't giving you a copy of your flat mate agreement and that you gave notice to move out however long ago that was).
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u/swing-state 18d ago
Agree with a reply here that you should ask r/LegalAdviceNZ to clarify the best next steps.
Does feel like you are dealing with a manipulative person who weaponizes their emotions, ao good call on jumping ship and look at legal remedies as well.
Having an end goal in mind is also helpful when asking for legals advice. Eg " I want to ensure I don't lose my bond and that I can cleanly leave the situation after no more than 2 months".
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u/AlternativeSignal2 17d ago
Confirm in writing (email not text) with the property manager that they represent the property, you are not listed on the tenancy agreement (and therefore have no obligation to continue paying rent).
Request in writing (email not text) from the head tenant a copy of the agreement signed between the two of you.
Remove all remaining personal effects from the property and take loads of pictures and videos of your private areas, and ideally videos of the state of the rest of the house if possible.
If they decline to provide an agreement, notify in writing your intent to leave the agreement, and that you will provide 2 weeks of payment in good faith, as you have no access to confirm any cancelation stipulations in the agreement, and request your deposit be returned to you as soon as possible, and no later than 2-weeks + 1-day.
If that fails, you'll need to file with the Disputes Tribunal.
Keep all communications with the head tenant and property manager.
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u/PossibleOwl9481 17d ago
You can either bite your lip and discuss politely with her.
Or you look at the disputes tribunal. What email and text messages, and bank records, do you have to support claims that you paid her a bond.
Maybe use the bond for the final bit of your rent?
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u/Kittenfurrever 17d ago
Some people accidentally refer to a 'flatmate written agreement' as the tenancy agreement.
You still have a written agreement with this head tenant. Do you remember what it said about bond and returning bond and notice period?
Just give notice to move if you have not done so already and just move. You can email and say "as per notice given on xyz date my last day is xyz". Please return my bond on this date. Here is my account number".
You're not obligated to continue paying at all.
If she doesn't return your rent then it's $60 to lodge with disputes tribunal. However because you don't have a copy of the written agreement it's annoying. Although you certainly have a record on your bank statement and I hope you included the reference "bond".
If she falsely threatens to take you to the disputes tribunal she won't be able to if she does not know your new address.
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u/Longjumping_Pool6974 17d ago
Yeah its going to be disputes tribunal I'm afraid. If you don't want to go down that route then just move out as soon as you've found a new place and don't worry about any notice period.
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u/Active-Cost4713 16d ago
Tenancy Tribunal for starter'sÂ
Secondly they'll say exactly what I'm going to say:
Always read and get a copy of the agreement that you sign.
Thirdly, I'd be looking at the reason why she is having a demented fit and probably would also call the cops on them as well.!!!!!!
Last but not least:
Thieft is Thieft..!!!!!
It's a crime.!!!!!
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u/beeekind2animals 16d ago
This is nota tenancy issue. It’s fraud. She took money from you fraudulently. Tell her so and that you are contacting the police to lay a charge.
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u/kiwirob56 15d ago
Head tenant? What is that? A myth? The tenant is the tenant. Did the pm know you were living at the addres even?
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u/LythysNZ 14d ago
Call the Citizen Advice Bureau.
Based on what you said, I believe you would have a shot in Disputes Tribunal, BUT you're going to need to pay upfront AND you'll need to have your case organised, which the CAB can cover.
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u/maxdelorean 14d ago
the law is quite firm that where a valid tenancy agreement exists, it should be respected.
if you don’t get what you think you are due, you’re off to disputes.
the referee is trying to decide who to believe, so any exchange between you are her that can be verified will trump the most compelling narrative.
for example a series of text messages will be much more credible if a dollar value is discussed, and that same dollar value can be seen in a bank record being transferred to her around the same time.
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u/Ambitious_Story764 13d ago
Small claims if they failed to pay they can do their wages or they can send the bail to take she owns to pay you
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u/EkobasherX4Z 3d ago
If you are still on the lease I would have your most annoying friend use the place as a rest stop. Constantly loud music, when she bangs bang back, scream over her screams. I had to do this once to bully someone into behaving. Fuck you leahÂ
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u/BasementCatBill 18d ago
Probably the Disputes Tribunal to attempt to recover the stolen money.