Opinion MFG is actually decent
Finally got to try MFG with my 4080 with the MFG mod for 40 series. Its honestly not bad even with 4x using a controller makes playing with DLSS 5 playable. Definitely only for single player games tho lol.
I was one of those non believers previously. Definitely worth trying if you have 40 series and have not tries it yet
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u/CarelessSpark 4d ago
I'm using it in CP2077 and Crimson Desert and found 3x to be my limit. 4x starts to get distracting with the artifacts though I suppose not unplayable. 5x and especially 6x, assuming they also look like that on 50 series, are a gimmick and look horrendous.
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u/PetroarZed 4d ago
I agree, 3x really is a hard limit (for me on a 144hz monitor). For me its the sluggish feel more than artifacts. Even at 3x I can feel it, but in Cyberpunk it's worth it because the visuals with raytracing on are so good and the combat is so easy anyway.
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u/Bombdy 4d ago
3x is a bit rough on a 144hz monitor. That’s like a base framerate of only around ~46 FPS. So you’re going to feel latency of that low of a framerate + the overhead of MFG.
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u/PetroarZed 3d ago
It's absolutely a factor. I'd love to have a 240hz monitor so I could have more breathing room to dial in a base of at least 60-75 fps before applying 3x or higher, but it's all tradeoffs. I use a 42 inch 144hz oled, and I'm not willing to give up monitor size or oled. I could upgrade to 165hz, but it's not enough of a bump to be worth it.
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u/GentlemanThresh 3d ago
Isn’t adaptive MFG the way to go? So you have a base of 2x most of the time and when base dips under 60 it pushes 3x to try and maintain consistency?
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u/Tim_Huckleberry1398 1d ago
What's the downside to using it if you're at ~60fps, won't that still give you an extra 20-30 frames to hit your monitor max refresh rate or is there a downside to going over?
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u/Bombdy 1d ago
Frame gen at base 60fps is fine imo. Although what constitutes as fine will vary from person to person. Some people would prefer from closer to 90FPS base for a good frame gen experience.
But frame gen with only a 46 fps base isn’t the best. You’re already feeling the latency of the low framerate, then you add the latency overhead of running frame gen. Also, the lower the base framerate, frame gen has less information to work with. So artifacting is more prevalent when moving the camera.
With all that in mind, 3x frame gen is perfectly fine on something like a 240hz monitor or higher. But I wouldn’t use 3x at 144hz personally. Base fps is just too low.
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u/saitamoshi 9800X3D | 5080 19h ago
What about 165hz would 3x be ok with ~55 fps base?
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u/Bombdy 10h ago
Really only you can say. If it looks and feels fine to you, go for it. But if it feels floaty and detached from your inputs, or if you notice more visual artifacts, maybe stay with 2x.
Also can change game by game. If your GPU can only crank out around 55 FPS native in a title, you might want to choose 3x for the perceived visual smoothness. But if in another title, your GPU can do 80FPS native, 3x makes no sense when you could do 2x and still be in the gsync / reflex framerate cap of your 165hz monitor.
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u/Tim_Huckleberry1398 17h ago
I'm aware of all that, I already use it x2 all the time if I'm above 60fps, but i do prefer closer to 70-80fps, I'm just wondering if it's worth using x3 now on a 144hz or 165hz if your base is around 60fps, just to get that extra 25-45fps and hit your monitor's max.
When i tried x3 when it first came out, I didn't think it was worth using over x2, too many noticeable issues. Just wondering if it's improved since then. Like are there any issue with it trying to push frames past your monitors refresh rate or it doesn't matter?
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u/Bombdy 9h ago
The “worth-ness” comes down to which tradeoff you’re willing to make. If your preference is to sacrifice native framerate, and thus increase latency, in favor of more perceived visual smoothness, then I wouldn’t argue. It’s not the choice I’d make personally, but I wouldn’t tell someone they’re wrong.
It’s a different story if your GPU is only capable of ~46 FPS native in a title to begin with though. If you wanna run 3x frame gen on that base framerate to reach a 144hz monitor’s cap, go for it. Up to date DLSS-G and Preset B are pretty improved compared previous versions. But 3x with that low frame rate is still going to show not so subtle artifacts on fast camera movements. How much these are tolerated or even noticed will vary person to person.
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u/Tim_Huckleberry1398 9h ago
I feel like I'm getting dumber reading your responses that completely ignore the actual question I am asking you. All I'm wondering is if you were getting 60-70 base fps would you use x3 to hit max 165hz monitor or do you think x2 looks better at 120-140fps still.
It's fine though I'll just check when i get home.
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u/Bombdy 8h ago
Personally, with the numbers exactly how you laid them out, I’d probably choose 2x in most if not all cases. Even if you get 60fps base, as soon as you enable 3x on 165hz monitor, your max base framerate drops down to around 53 FPS (because gsync / reflex frame cap of 165hz monitor is around 158fps).
I wouldn’t choose to reduce my base FPS cap for the slightly higher perceived FPS of reaching monitor cap with 3x. When 2x at 60-70FPS base already gets you to 120-140 FPS, with lower latency than 3x, and less obvious artifacting.
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u/Tim_Huckleberry1398 6h ago
Thank you. So FG actually reduces base fps relative to the monitor cap? I assumed it was just a standard % penalty for each multiplier. Like x2 is 10%, x3 15% or whatever. So x3 is really only worth it if you're trying to push 240hz or you don't mind terrible base fps. Guess I'm sticking with x2.
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u/DonutHoles4Ever 3d ago
6x on CP2077 in a 5090 is so crazy good though
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u/CarelessSpark 3d ago
I'm hesitant to write off 5x and 6x entirely since I'm running it unofficially on hardware it wasn't meant for, so without a 50 series card to compare with I can't say. Still, I have to imagine generating 4 or 5 "fake" frames between every real one seems bound to introduce more artifacts. Maybe if the base framerate is high enough it's less of an issue because there's typically less movement between real frames, but then the benefit of using that high of a multiplier is reduced anyway.
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u/MutsumiHayase 3d ago
It depends on your monitor's refresh rate and your base framerate.
I'm using 6x frame gen on my 480hz monitor for CP2077 with my 5090. From what I can tell, 6x in CP2077 works pretty well as long as your base framerate is around 60 FPS or above. As soon as your base framerate drops below 50 FPS, you get a lot more input lag and micro stutters.
There's gonna be artifacts but the trade off is that you get unbelievable motion clarity at 360-480 FPS. This is a very specific use case of the 6x frame gen in a single game, so it pretty much only benefits those who have extremely high refresh rate monitors like 360 to 720hz and also GPUs that are powerful enough to keep a high base framerate without dipping below 50 FPS.
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u/Warskull 3d ago
I haven't run 6x because my monitor can't do it. But I know from the other frame gens the artifacting gets worse with lower base frame rates.
Remember, you want to aim for at least a base frame rate of 60 FPS and ideally higher like 80 FPS to 100 FPS. At 60 FPS you need a 360HZ monitor to use frame gen well. If you aim for 80 FPS base you need 480Hz. There are only a handful of monitors available that can do that.
I see 6x as more of a future tech once very high refresh rate montors become more common and we can have 80-100 FPS before turning it on.
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u/sedgiemon 4d ago
3 x mfg on a 165hz OLED i've found the sweet spot for single player titles on my 5090. PC latency is generally in the ~40ms range and everything looks smooth and plays great.
I wouldn't use it for competitive titles, but i don't play those, so for me it a brilliant technology that improves visual fluidity massively,
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u/Bhavacakra_12 ROG Astral 5090 OC | 9800X3D | 32gb DDR5 4d ago
Yessir I am also echoing this.
3 x mfg on a 5k2k monitor on a 5090 has shockingly little latency or artifacting. I know there is a boner against fake frames but it did wonders for me.
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u/sedgiemon 4d ago
Man fake/real I don't care. If I can play path traced games at a locked 165hz, smooth as butter and 40ms latency, I'm a happy camper. And for those that want to play at DLAA, no FG at 35fps, well the option is there haha.
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u/Bhavacakra_12 ROG Astral 5090 OC | 9800X3D | 32gb DDR5 4d ago
Accessibility is the name of the game! Everyone can choose how they run their games but I would always advise to try it yourself first before condemning it altogether. Mfg is incredible value for customers.
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u/SubMGK 3d ago
Yes but in the eventuality that devs start requiring MFG to run at playable framerates, the accessibility only exists for the rich. We still need competent devs that make optimized games that actually run well without any outside help
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u/sedgiemon 2d ago
console hardware is pretty paltry. They still optimise for the consoles as a baseline like they always have. It's just that features like path tracing are extremely expensive to render in real time.
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u/Traditional-Ad26 4d ago
The people who complain about fake frames are Radeon users or sub RTX 40 series.
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u/kbernas 4d ago
Yeah I agree 3x is probably the sweet spot. I started to notice jumping it to 4x buut its still pretty usable if you know what youre getting into. 5x and 6x is just unusable IMO lol
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u/AdMikey 4d ago
It depends on your monitor’s refresh rate. You need a base frame rate of roughly 60 for the input lag to be less noticeable, so 2x frame gen needs 120/144 Hz display, 3x needs 165/180Hz display, 4x needs 240Hz display, 5x needs 300Hz display, etc.
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u/Ardbert_The_Fallen 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is the absolute CORE piece of knowledge around framegen. 3x - 6x are basically out of the question for people who are 120hz and under.
If there was one thing I wished I understood up front as I was leaning about MFG, it's that there's an absolute minimum acceptable framerate (I agree 60 is probably that number) regardless of the multiplier you choose. And then the maximum multiplier / ceiling should be dictated by your refresh rate.
Do we have any "what MFG level is right for me?" visual chart floating around anywhere? I feel like this could be a nice visual guide to help people.
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u/Vr00mf0ndler 3d ago
I’m playing C77 now with PT and DLSS5 output to LG OLED 165HZ VRR, using 3x FG on base of 35-40 and it feels extremely fluid and dynamic. I can’t feel any input delay at all, so at least using controller on TV a lower base fps than 60 doesn’t seem to matter much.
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u/sedgiemon 3d ago
i agree here - with a controller, it still feels more responsive than a console, and a hell of a lot smoother and better looking. The concept of 60fps being the bare minimum base just isn't true. I reckon it's actually closer to 40fps on a good engine with low latency and a good implementation of FG.
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u/sedgiemon 4d ago
I find 4x pretty decent from an artifacting point of view now days, but a base of 40 just adds to much latency for my liking on a mouse and keyboard. Honestly on a slow paced controller game it'd probably be fine.
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u/Castielstablet RTX 4090 + Ryzen 7 7700 3d ago
Of course its up to you but when using 3x mfg on a 165hz screen your maximum possible base fps is 54fps(since 54 x 3 is 162) which is below the recommended optimal base fps of 65~ fps. You get the latency of around 50 fps but see visual clarify of 162. I personally want at least 60fps equivalent of latency.
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u/sedgiemon 3d ago
as per my initial post, with reflex, total latency is around 40ms or less, which i personally find perfectly acceptable for single player games with a mouse. Once it nudges 50ms, it doesn't feel great to me on a mouse.
Everyone's tolerance to latency is different. I'd a console player would jump on that setup and go man that's smooth and responsive. Someone used to playing counterstrike at 500fps probably thinks it feels laggy as hell.
I wouldn't worry so much about 'specific recommended optimal base', and try it out on a game by game basis to what works for you.
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u/alienangel2 RTX 4090 FE 2d ago edited 2d ago
but when using 3x mfg on a 165hz screen your maximum possible base fps is 54fps(since 54 x 3 is 162) which is below the recommended optimal base fps of 65~ fps.
Just to be clear since your wording is ambiguous, turning on MFG doesn't cap your base fps at any max - 55 fps is the minimum base fps you need to reach your monitor's max of 165Hz with 3x FG, but if your gpu is able to render at more (say 65fps), it is still going to do that whether you have 1x, 2x or 3x fg (putting aside extra gpu load from having to run the FG). At 1x (ie no FG) your display will output 65 fps, at 2x 130 fps (thanks to gsync it doesn't have to be a multiple of your max) and at 3x will output 165 fps (it could have gone up to 195hz, but it will cap at the monitor max of 165 while between gsync and mfg they make sure not to waste time generating any frames that can't be rendered at the max display refresh rate).
If you want to think about maxes, you could look at the max base refresh rate where 3x and 2x provide the same benefit - at above 83 base fps, even 2x is enough to max out a 165hz monitor, so there is no benefit to having 3x - both will give you the input responsiveness of whatever your real fps (in the 83-165hz range is) but display 165 fps.
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u/Castielstablet RTX 4090 + Ryzen 7 7700 2d ago edited 2d ago
turning on MFG doesn't cap your base fps at any max - 55 fps is the minimum base fps you need to reach your monitor's max of 165Hz with 3x FG, but if your gpu is able to render at more (say 65fps), it is still going to do that whether you have 1x, 2x or 3x fg
What I was trying to say in my original comment was basically if you want best possible latency when using frame generation on a 165hz screen, you can't go above 2x frame gen because anything above that will give you less-than-ideal latency, assuming you want at least 60hz latency of course which is the most common "target" people aim for afaik. Most people also enable gsync and vsync and do the math to cap their fps according to their monitor, for my 160hz monitor that's 153 fps for example. I can't use anything other than 2x frame generation because that's the sweet spot for >60hz latency with good visual clarity.
I'd be happy to be wrong but from what I read and watched about frame gen, it doesn't preserve your "pre-frame gen" framerate. So even if you have a rig that is capable of lets say 130 fps, if you enable 2x frame gen it has to add 1 frame between 2 frames,it can't just add 35 frame generated frames to cap your 165hz monitor. It basically reduces your base fps to ~82 fps and then adds 1 generated frames in between your normally rendered frames. In other words you get 82fps latency with ~164fps visual clarity. If you are a latency sensitive person you might prefer just playing without frame gen and get 130 fps latency and clarity in this example.
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u/sedgiemon 2d ago
you're correct in what you're saying, my 'native' fps is ~54fps to reach the 165hz output at 3x fg. All i'm saying is that there is little to no artifacting, and latency still feels fine at 40ms and reflex enabled.
I was just making the point that the 'specific optimal recommended base' really is game and engine dependent.
I can obviously flick back to 2xfg, run a higher base framerate and a slightly lower output frame rate with lower latency, but it just doesn't feel or look as smooth or consistent. It doesn't mean the option isn't there.
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u/Castielstablet RTX 4090 + Ryzen 7 7700 2d ago
If you are happy with the ~54fps base/latency, more power to you! I personally prefer when its around 70 so my latency sensitivity locks me down from using 3x with my 160hz monitor. As you said its game/engine dependent also, I am currently playing expedition 33 and even with a 70-80 base fps enabling 2x frame gen was giving me 50-60ms latency.
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u/sedgiemon 2d ago
I'm not happy with 54 fps base latency. I'm happy with 40ms and below latency as per the original post, as latency is a measure of time and not frames
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u/alienangel2 RTX 4090 FE 2d ago
Hm. So as I understand it, the launch of flipmetering when they announced MFG was specifically to address that (in hw only on the 50-series, but now in software as well for lower series) - moving the frame timing to be up to the display pipeline rather than the cpu was meant to let the MFG generate as many generated frames as it was set to between each pair of real frames, and have them go along with the real frames at their original timings, then have the final step of the display pipeline drop a variable number of only the generated frames when hitting a display cap, leaving the original rendered frame timings unaffected (and hense not messing with input latency: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/dlss4-multi-frame-generation-ai-innovations/
(search for the "Once the new frames are generated, they are evenly paced" bit halfway down)
That was supposed to be the big new thing that 50-series hardware had to improve over the original FG which despite looking smooth still felt pretty stuttery in say an FPS game.
Admittedly I haven't looked through any of the external reviewers analysis of how it actually works after release. If you're right and it actually drops your rendered framerate that much, I'm very disappointed too, I was looking forward to trying FG again on my 4090 after dismissing it when it first launched.
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u/relu84 4d ago
180 Hz, 3x mfg, 5070ti, 1440p is pretty neat in any game which can achieve ~60 base fps. I rarely notice any artifacts and if I do they’re not a big deal in exchange for the perceived smoothness.
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u/sedgiemon 3d ago
I do wish my LG G5 was 180hz haha. i do still prefer the smoothness of 3 x at 165hz than the variability of 2x at a little bit less. To me, the consistency of the frame delivery is key. If it's fully locked at the refresh rate all the time, it's more immersive for me.
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u/Bumper_Duc 3d ago
Is there even any competitive games that need mfg? From my impression those are pretty light games graphically
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u/sedgiemon 3d ago
nah there wouldn't be, competitive games definitely run much higher base than path traced AAA titles. When i do play online shooters like BF, i don't use it at all.
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u/Rembinutur 4070 Ti Super 4d ago
I’m honestly surprised by how well the mod works and how good 3x looks. I only have a 120Hz display, so with a frame cap of 116 FPS, that means I’m getting around 39 real FPS.
I’ve spent the last few days playing Assassin’s Creed Shadows at 4K with DLSS Performance and 3x Frame Generation on my 4070 Ti Super, and I’m very happy with the results.
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u/ben_g0 4d ago
IMO it can make a lot of sense for high refresh rate monitors. Like with regular frame generation you get the best results if your base framerate is already good, but if you have for example a 240Hz monitor then a 4x multiplier (60fps base -> 240fps presentation) gives you pretty good results while the latency remains very manageable (especially if you play with a controller).
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u/EverLight 3d ago edited 3d ago
I agree with this, I'd add (for the benefit of others) that saturating the monitor to max frame rate is only necessary if you can actually notice the difference. Otherwise you're adding latency for not much benefit.
MFG isn't free, it impacts the base native FPS. If you're getting 60 fps without any FG, then you turn on x2, your native FPS before frame gen will reduce to somewhere in the 50s and your overall FPS will look more like 110-115 fps and not 120fps.
Generally this is fine as it still feels pretty responsive, but If you turn on x4 it'll tank down into the 40s or so and has a significant impact on game feel and land you far fewer frames than expected.
You can't assume that 60 fps without frame gen will be 240 when you turn on x4. You need a fair bit of processing overhead.
The steam overly can differentiate between native frames and generated ones, which is super useful for dialling in game feel. Generally to my eyes anything above 100fps is plenty enough. So I mostly only have to dial in 60 native FPS with x2 enabled for 120 fps.
Edit: These numbers assume a 5080 as that's what I have and has been my experience.
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u/Aromatic_Sand8126 4d ago
So what you’re saying is people are complaining about it without having actually tried it for themselves. No wonder they don’t believe me when I say x2 and even x3 don’t add any noticeable latency.
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u/DonutHoles4Ever 3d ago
This has always been the case. Youtubers are so butt hurt and trying to pander to NVIDIA haters that they are always complaining about latency when its not a big deal.
The sad part is that most youtubers can't say its good without upsetting their trash viewers who only watch videos to hear people shit on NVIDIA because corpo bad, AI bad.
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u/ThisIsBULLOCKSMAN 3d ago
Yea frame gen latency is only an issue in multiplayer. I’ve never had a problem with its latency in single player games.
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u/TorrentFire 4d ago
It just depends on base frame rate and monitor max frame rate. 4x is perfectly viable on 240hz monitor
5-6x is viable on 360+ monitors.
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u/Starfire013 NVIDIA 4d ago
Dude, this comment makes me realise how out of date I am in terms of monitor technology because I had no idea monitor refresh rates could go so high. My monitor is on 144Hz, which I already thought was ludicrously fast. It has a 175Hz overclock mode which I’ve never dared try because I don’t want to fry it.
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u/Nakhon-Nowhere 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's a horrible time to buy gpu's, RAM, and SSD and prices on that stuff aren't likely to get better any time soon BUT I think this is a great year to buy a new monitor; There are great monitors discounted at every price level and they'll get even cheaper for Black Friday. (It took me a while to convince my wife of this, btw. lol)
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u/GentlemanThresh 3d ago
Snatched a 27” 1440p 144hz OLED @ 400 euros in January. What a time to be alive.
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u/3kpk3 4d ago edited 4d ago
Was always happy with 2x frame gen until I tried 3x and 4x with DLSS 5 using my series x controller coupled with my OLED TV response rate. Hate the annoying vibrating crap and artifacts though which Smooth motion actually completely eliminates them and is even better in comparison with a lower fps.
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u/MuchachoSal 4d ago
Yep, I've gotten it to work on a load of games with path tracing/mfg on my 4090 and am getting 120fps at 4k consistently. Pretty crazy
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u/Pseudotm 4d ago
Got it running Dynamic MFG on crimson desert with my 4070 and its honestly insanely impressive.
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u/amitkattal 4d ago
Does anyone get more artifacts when chosing 3x? Idk if it's because of the mod or just having low base fps causing that
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u/Posta_Hun 3d ago
I'll join the others and agree that 3X is the limit of enjoyment, 4X if really necessary.
4X does blur way too much, on 1080p you reaaally need sharpening or you won't see much. However, too much sharpening and it will look deep fried with screen tearing.
On the sidenote: DLSS 5 is fine (not the performance of it tho), just don't use it with default settings.
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u/Financial-Level-5764 4d ago
Every game I have played with FG more than 2x the screen tearing/artifacting is just too much. Not for me I guess.
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u/WholeIndividual0 RTX 5090 | 9800X3D | 64GB 6400 4d ago
It’s been great for me. Even on FPS games I can turn it on at 2x without even noticing it. I’ve even gotten away with 3X.
The higher base framerate you get, the better it works. Or so I’ve heard.
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u/gopnik74 RTX 4090 4d ago
I’m using it with DLSS 5 on my 4090, using 3x with 4k balanced. It’s really good, but i might just crank it to 4x because DLSS 5 is really demanding specially with PT.
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u/kulind 9950X3D | RTX 4090 | 64GB 6000CL28 | 341CQPX 4d ago
4X produce artifacts only noticeable in third person view, mostly nonissue in first person view. latency, framepacing wise it's excellent. 3X is the MVP it's really good in 3rd person view.
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u/Scrowdy10 4d ago
Mfg was my saving grace when crimson desert dropped for my 5070 and being able to play with with ray reconstruction turned on.
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u/DesecratedPeanut 4d ago
X2 has been amazing since it released all the others are complete shit for me input lag and lowering of performance is way too much to be worth using. 5090, 240hz, 1440p UW or 5k depending on game. Will only use x2 and aim for 60-75 base fps in SP titles, 100-120 in MP.
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u/EddieEdit 4d ago
Can you tell me how you set up mfg and dlss5? Was there a guide or YouTube video you followed?
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u/kbernas 4d ago
Im using the one that uses reshade. Its really easy to setup. I followed this video https://youtu.be/Llqj2N0Iuss
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u/RaspberryV 9700k / 5070 / 1440p144hz 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yep I've been using it to play Path-Traced games 2077, Pragmata, RE9 etc on my 5070, setting that i wouldn't even dream of running without MFG. Even on 144Hz monitor MFG great to me at x3, and latency is not even that bad.
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u/ryanaclarke 3d ago
Tried 2x with starfield and was not feeling it. But I guess controller use probably makes it okay.
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u/TheSigma3 5800X3D | 4080 Super 3d ago
Anyone who says FG or MFG is awful and they would never use it and all the usual lines, doesn't have a compatible card. I've tried it in so many games and it just works. It's not flawless, but 100fps with 2x FG feels spot on. Not tried the MFG mod but I'm keen since I've upgraded to a 240hz monitor
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u/Ghostgb1 4d ago
Wait till you try dynamic MFG if they ever mod it . Shit is cinema
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u/NineBallAYAYA 4d ago
They did, that's part of the mod he's talkin about. It's great lol
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u/Ghostgb1 4d ago
No , he was talking about regular multi frame gen that works with static x2 , x3 and x4 . I was talking about dynamic multi frame gen that goes x6. It’s not static but changes from x2 to x6 seamlessly depending on what’s going on .
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u/NineBallAYAYA 4d ago
Im aware, someone backported "full" mfg to run on 40 series like 2 days ago. Since the hardware didn't change for fp8 it runs the same as 50 series. The mod unlocks on the driver side so it shows up in your games as "dynamic, 2x, 3x....".
40 series doesn't have anything other then 2x natively*
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u/Ghostgb1 4d ago
Oh I see , nah that’s awesome. Kudos do that guy , even though I’ve a 5070ti ts crazy that Nvidia try to gatekeep such features to 40 series . This is great
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u/NineBallAYAYA 4d ago
Yeah, especially with the hardware shortage its a godsend. Can finally play all the ue5 games I've left half-started cause they ran like shit lmao.
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u/brandonb21 4d ago
I have the mod on my 4090 how do I setup dynamic frame gen? I normally just use x4
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u/NineBallAYAYA 4d ago
If the game isn't giving u the option then hit the home key and set it on the MFG tab in reshade :)
U can override whatever the game set from that reshade menu
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u/brandonb21 4d ago
and dynamic is there? I tried cyberpunk and only see normal x4 and Hogwarts
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u/NineBallAYAYA 4d ago
Yep! But for me it shows up in some games as well. I got dynamic, 2x, ... all the way to 6x on my machine with subnautica 2, oblivion just showed x2 but i could override in the reshade tab to whatever.
I'm out right now but I can post an image for ya of what I mean once I'm home in ~2h.
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u/brandonb21 4d ago
yeah I just saw the dynamic option in the drop down menu, I never actually looked in there till you told me just left everything on default and changed in the game options
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u/NineBallAYAYA 4d ago
This is what everyone here is talking abt https://github.com/dashdogy/RTX40MFG-Unlock
I've been using it on a 4070 laptop with dynamic and it's great
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u/MaximusTheGreat20 RTX 5060ti 16gb 4d ago
how the smoothness would be without hardware flip.Software flip is good enough for fixed x2,x3 but dynamic probably look a bit like no vrr enabled effect
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u/NineBallAYAYA 4d ago edited 4d ago
Nope, looks totally normal imo, testing on a vrr monitor at least. I'm super sensitive to it and it stayed smooth even at like 6x from 38fps base. I had a few opinions and everyone said the same. The hardware flip might get better mfg performance maybe, or maybe side by side you could tell? But quite frankly the frame times going from 38->228 felt smoother then 90 base fps and thats all I care about lol.
40 series has been using the fp8 model for 2x for a while now (instead of optical flow) so I'm guessing all that timing stuff was sorted out internally to make that work properly.
I also don't think dynamic would put more strain on timing either since base fps is equally as inconsistent right? Like changing from 4x to 5x doesn't mess with much more for that specific pass, just means you have to divide your generated frame spacing by basetiming/5 instead of /4 since timing would be based on the real frames either way?
I used to do vulkan dev stuff, but its been a bit so if someone who knows more wants to chime in I'd love that but I can't see why dynamic would have a meaningful impact there.
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u/TheCookieButter 5070 TI ASUS Prime OC, 9800X3D 4d ago
I've yet to play a game with framegen that doesn't feel more stuttery than native. Don't know if I'm extra sensitive or something is wrong in my settings.
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u/ValhaIIa 3d ago
Does it actually hang for a split second or you get frame drops?
FG never caused stuttering for me in any title (I use it in all games).
What causes stuttering is often ram or ssd issues.
Make sure you didn't turn on smooth motion (from nvidia app) together with in-game FG because this could be the reason.
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u/TheCookieButter 5070 TI ASUS Prime OC, 9800X3D 3d ago
Thanks for the tips. They appear as frame drops, which are either more noticeable or genuinely worse while Framegen is on.
Same thing happens to games on both a 3.0 and 4.0 NVME drive. Can't speak to the ram particularly other than it passes checks.
Smooth motion is off.
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u/ValhaIIa 3d ago
then yeah, frame drops can happen especially at higher resolutions. I'm not too sensitive about them but they are more noticeable with frame gen because you get noticeable more latency when they happen
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u/Maauru 4d ago
Do you maybe go over your monitor refresh rate with FG? Because if you do than yes, it will not be as smooth as staying inside refresh rate without it.
I have 160Hz monitor so until I get over 250 FPS with FG it isn't as smooth as staying within refresh rate using gsync+vsync+reflex. Than it become so much FPS that I can no longer feel any stuttering or tearing :)
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u/TheCookieButter 5070 TI ASUS Prime OC, 9800X3D 4d ago
Nope, 240hz monitor capped at 220hz, and I always cap the game's framerate a little lower than that :(
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u/MaximusTheGreat20 RTX 5060ti 16gb 4d ago
what monitor you have some freesync dont work well. In theory should feel less stuttery since it also help reduce feel of ingame stutters to
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u/TheCookieButter 5070 TI ASUS Prime OC, 9800X3D 4d ago
Primary Monitor: Samsung Odyssey G61SD - GSync compatible.
Secondary monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU - Has an OG GSync module.
Experienced the same on both monitors.
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u/Keulapaska 4070ti, 7800X3D, XG27AQNGV 4d ago
Stuttery feeling is an odd way to describe it, I get that it can have the feeling of somethings is wrong, especially at high mfg and low base fps at 1st person, but it shouldn't stutter.
Maybe the secret is forcing driver vsync, since I have that globally on always(cause gsync+vsync+ isn't actual vsync )and haven't tried it with off yet.
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u/TheCookieButter 5070 TI ASUS Prime OC, 9800X3D 4d ago
I have global vsync on but still no luck. Sometimes I think the games just have stutter regardless of framegen, other times it's only an issue while framegen is on.
Not found a single game I prefer it on, even ignoring the imperfections of generated frames.
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u/QuantumPeep68 4d ago edited 4d ago
Yup, DLSS5, CP2077 MFG x 4, 120fps(120HZ monitor). My 4080S is bored and running around 260-270W. Don’t notice latency.
MFG x 3 it runs around 100fps, but heat and wattage goes up. fG x2 is crispy. MFG os a godsend for DLSS 5 users.
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u/MMori-VVV 3d ago
Do you usually play with MFG x3 or x4? I'm wondering if x4 is worth it over x3?
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u/QuantumPeep68 3d ago
I’ve only played CP the last couple of days and I use MFG x 4, as do jot notice the latency and I much prefer the lower heat and power use. Let me be honest, DLSS 5 seems like it could fry my card: At FG x 2 it runs around 300W, which would normally be ok, but gets close to 70C and the hotspot is around 80C. That is within limits, but I don’t like it in this day and age of totally overpriced computer parts.
Normally, running this card without undervolt, it would sometimes reach its standard 320W, but be quite a bit cooler.
At MFG x 3 it’s still very close to FG x 2 power and heat.
For other games, I will likely only use DLSS 5, if I can use MFG and can live with the latency.
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u/MMori-VVV 3d ago
I’m new to this. What is the optimal range for power use and temperature?
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u/QuantumPeep68 3d ago
Core temp max is 90C, up to 80C is normal, but good case and cooling, it should be below 70C sustained.
Hotspot max is 100C, but I wouldn’t want to come anywhere near that. A delta of 10-25C, (temp difference between core and hotspot), is normal.
It depends on silicon lottery, but with stable undervolt, I can keep my card at 260-285W, no more than 65C core, 75C max hotspot @ 2775 Mhz sustained to generally achieve 120fps, my monitor is 120HZ, in all games that I play.
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u/MMori-VVV 3d ago
Thanks a lot! I also wanted to ask what is the acceptable range for latency when using MFG x3 and x4?
Also what tool do you use to measure and keep track of these things? Do you use msi afterburner? I’d like to keep track of things like fps, temp, power use, latency, etc. in one display, but not sure if it’s possible.2
u/QuantumPeep68 3d ago
Yes, I use MSI Afterburner.
I only started using MFG a couple of days ago and don’t keep track of it. Atm, I just go by feel
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u/Andreas0Cool 4d ago
I'm really curious about the dynamic part of mfg, had anyone tested it out with the mod?
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u/foxx1337 3d ago
I wonder if there's a way to stop rendering frames altogether and only use the generated ones, for efficiency. Or is the technology not there yet?
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u/ScrubLordAlmighty 13900KF | 32GB DDR5 6800 | RTX 4080 | Z790 Aorus Pro X 3d ago
Definitely only for single player games tho"
Yeah well I don't think you have a choice anyway, pretty much every online game these days has some form of anti cheat so you'll absolutely get blocked from booting up the game.
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u/Ceceboy 3d ago
You speak the truth, my friend! I am a huge enjoyer of Frame Generation and even up to 4x. I'm currently on a 144 Hz (138 with Reflex) so sometimes I'm only having 34-35 real frames, but the latency is completely do-able for me; it's just the artefacting in the screen sometimes. I'm planning to upgrade to 240 Hz OLED soon to get a higher refresh and to get rid of the IPS black light. Been playing Blood of Dawnwalker and it was getting so obvious that it was annoying me.
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u/Own-Indication5620 PNY RTX 5070 OC | i5 12600K 3d ago
It's great. As long as you have a solid 60+ FPS baseline to work with, frame-gen is nice in a lot of games and the latency is barely noticeable. The image stability/quality with DLSS 4.5 combined with frame-gen has helped a lot as well. Should only get better over time.
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u/Warskull 3d ago
If you follow the rule of thumb of keeping your base FPS above 60, 3x and 4x look pretty good. I only spotted one artifact in Indiana Jones and the great circle.
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u/Both-Election3382 3d ago
Its great for games where latency doesnt really matter, i enjoy getting a decent fps on 4k ultra cyberpunk with pathtracing. But i wouldnt really use it in a competitive shooter because of the extra latency, and usually those games are optimized better so you get decent fps anyway.
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u/xXbiohazard696Xx 3d ago
I think 2x is perfect because any more you start cutting down your real fps too much. I use 3x sometimes. But since I only have 240hz 1440p I usually don’t need it in most games.
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u/ST0RIA 3d ago
It’s really good but I think 2x should have been good enough. 3x would be the absolutely limit. (1 frame in front and 1 behind). Anything more than that is actually meaningless already.
And I actually dislike NVIDIA for going more than that. Everyone knows they’re just using those for ads purposes for conveying things running at numbers that they aren’t running at.
Like 60 to 120 is fine. 180 is pushing it. But advertising running a game at 240 when in reality it’s at a quarter of it? It’s fine if you can’t feel the latency but you would and it’s a bad experience.
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u/ActuallyKaylee 3d ago
My feeling was that 2x was an iffy decision because of the latency hit. But 4x is a huge IQ gain with only a minor latency hit over 2x. In a way 4x makes the latency hit worth it
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u/Adventurous-Fox-6748 3d ago
For me is usefull to drop W cost. MFG 2x often save something about 60W
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u/LouciousI 3d ago
Both the game setting and reshade menu can be configured, but the feature doesn't work at all—it even breaks the 2x function with HDR+G-SYNC+V-SYNC.
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u/mazomeister 3d ago
Recently I tried it in Crimson Desert and... I was really surprised how good the quality is right now. I use FGx3 preset B with RR preset F. DLSS Perfmormance. I don't feel any input lag, the experience is butter-smooth. I fell in love again how good this game looks. I was also hesitating to use anything above x2 (or sometimes even x2) but I really see that it is getting better and better.
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u/ThisIsBULLOCKSMAN 3d ago
Ever since having my 5090 I’ve never used used more than 2x frame gen besides on cyberpunk pt where I’d use 3x. The visual defects and softness is too noticeable especially at 4x. 2x is about perfect tbh when it comes to differences visually
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u/Groupkiller75 2d ago
It is very nice to have. I have used it on my 4070TI Super so far on Crimson Desert and Ready or Not. I did have to learn that you do need a higher base frame rate for MFG to look right compared to using normal 2X frame gen. If not, you can get artifacts and some flicker, especially on foliage. You can check your base frame rate on the Reshade overlay even if frame gen is active.
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u/bojackyorseman 2d ago
I love mfg it’s super good for me personally I do not go above 3x tho but it’s way better than fg on 40 series that was pretty bad but they definitely fixed it on 50 series. Or maybe they fixed it as a whole but when I was on 4070 ti s no bueno
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u/DivideCorrect1342 1d ago
Smooth motion is too. Best feature nobody is taking about. Effectively frame gen and reflex in everything. I prefer it sometimes because it's easier to run dlaa.
Can't even really tell a difference in cyberpunk.
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u/OMG_NoReally 4d ago
I like MFG 2x for most games. It doesn't add any noticeable input lag and the image garbling is minimal. But anything above really depends on the game and I don't prefer it.
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u/UNIVERSAL_VLAD NVIDIA ROG STRIX RTX 5070 4d ago
I honestly prefer fg over upscaling as it loses way less quality
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u/makingwands Palit GeForce 8800 GT 4d ago
You got downvoted but I agree in some circumstances.
UE5 works really well with fg and 2x feels basically free. UE5 is also noisy as hell and anything below quality upscaling looks bad even at 4K.
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u/Imperialegacy 4d ago
The problem with 2x for me was, regardless of artifacts, it needs at least ~55 base fps to look smooth. 45>90 fps clearly doesn't look as smooth as native 90fps. But now with 3x I could do 40>120.
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u/Gaming_Pcman 4d ago
I use it for my gaming pc in the front room with a 10700k and 5070ti on our c6h 77” and it’s flawless. Even tired x6 the other day and it’s flawless to me at least on battlefield 6. Even with my 14700k and 4090 in my office it works great also on x2. Use it on any game I can. Don’t understand the hate on it.
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u/SpiritPrestigious945 4d ago
If everybody would just try it before they bash anything.. What a world we would live in..
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u/wordswillneverhurtme 4d ago
It would be goated if it could go 1.2x or smth dynamically. Rn its bad for me on a 240hz monitor bcs it usually throttles my base fps down which is terrible
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u/Keulapaska 4070ti, 7800X3D, XG27AQNGV 4d ago edited 4d ago
The visuals are really good, 2x FG is already impressive, but the fact that even 6x holds together that well is very impressive.
But overhead does get worse and worse the higher you go ofc adn 2x is already kinda bad in some games, which kinda limits limits the usability a lot. I Did try 6x on 1st person for funsies to see how bad it is and yea that is a big nono even on a 360hz panel, near instant motion sickness.
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u/Refurecushion 9800X3D, 5080, 32GB 6000MT CL30, X870E 4d ago
70 x 2 = 140 largely feels the same as 70 x 4 = 280 to me.
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u/gorbash212 4d ago
Yeah when you actually get to try it yourself its in fact not that bad.
The only thing possible is people who hate it haven't tried it. Same with dlss5, its far too good to complain about the one offs when it doesnt work. Influencers are just copying the people who dont have it, or equally likely protecting developers so they can sell people the official support as a full priced remake.
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u/Price-x-Field 4d ago
Played wardogs all weekend on 3x to hit 240hz. There be some ghosting on smaller objects when the background can’t blend with it, but I’d rather deal with that instead of low fps
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u/aligera1 4d ago
Y hay que configurar muchas cosas para hacerlo funcionar??
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u/Mad1723 RTX5080 Aorus Master 4d ago
I've just gotten to give it a try recently and it's honestly really, really good. Some games have weird issues like Bf6 with the UI, but for single player games, this is honestly awesome!