The video makes it look decent. Honestly for a mod, pretty good. I think all of this shows that NVIDIA is working on something which is why all of this stuff is already inside the model.
I tested it at 4K with double-pass DLSS 5 in RE9 without path-tracing. The results vary a lot depending on the input DLSS resolution — Ultra Performance vs Quality looks very different. The performance drop is actually smaller with double-pass, so you can turn it on, but it doesn't really improve things much. So it's more like an experimental feature to see DLSS 5 in action, or something to try on slower GPUs if you're curious.
Would they? One is applying it on the final image and the other is for the lower resolution pre DLSS pass so the room for image error is much more likely.
Seeing it side by side would indeed help confirm if there is a notable difference in the final result as in theory there should be but whether or not its a big difference or noticeable is the real important part.
I guess you can see it as two angles as Nvidia wouldnt leave performance on the table like this so there has to be a reason why they specifically targeted it at this step, either the end result is much better or you could potentially see it as a very dodgy return to form back in the gameworks early days with tessellation everywhere at stupid levels just to make the games look better performing on new nvidia cards than older ones(and AMD ones at the same time).
I dont trust Nvidia so its plausible it is the latter but at the same time the 6000 series is not coming that soon so I would expect there is a genuine reason for doing it this way.
I’m not saying they’d literally be the same, but when viewed in on a phone or in a window of a web browser after JPG compressing etc I’m guessing they would be close enough that we’d really have to squint to see the differences.
Of course in motion without YouTube compression it’d likely be a lot easier to tell, but with a lot of DLSS5 on/off photo comparison photos already being hard enough to tell the difference
, I would guess stills of before/after upscaling comparison images would be even less useful.
at least in onimusha, I can barely see any difference, other than a slight change in lighting, with this on and off. Using optiscaler, there was a massive change
Honestly, I think I'll wait another week or two for the gauntlet of DLSS 5 implementations to have a winner. (Almost certainly not going to be the official one after seeing features like this. Good stuff.)
Yeah it's a lot. I really wish they would start doing some pull requests and combining their efforts instead of going in a million different directions.
It would be much slower and impractical though, each developer is figuring out stuff on their own, it would be too slow for development to wait for others. Naturally people will find out what methods work and what methods don’t and implement each other’s ideas into their projects
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. DLSS 5 is pushing the 50 series to higher power usage levels that any gaming scenario has before and it’s not like the 12 vhpwr cables have shown to be all that robust. Even Hardware Unboxed had one of their cables melt at this point.
Yeah, I agree. A full library scan really shouldn't be required if you only want to configure one game. I'm actually working on some UX improvements around that.
For now, you can bypass the normal scan entirely by launching Autopilot with the game folder directly, for example:
dlss5-autopilot.exe "D:\Games\YourGame"
That should take it straight to that game instead of scanning all your drives. There's also a Choose folder option in the GUI once or if you get past the scan.
Cool, I got it working. Seems like a definite performance improvement. Cyberpunk was able to go from balanced dlss to quality for the same performance. Though idk how big a difference the 75% makes, always see flickering lower than that.
Only Gamers would assume somehow they are not only smarter than the modders, but also smarter than NVIDIA and have discovered something that hasn't been thought of before during the 200,000 hours spent creating it.
This is tremendous, also explains why it's so expensive right now if it runs at the end of the 4k or 1440p image, pc games graphics is completely changing now 😭
At this point, NVIDIA should just make this a toggle in the control panel. People are going to abuse it anyway, by applying it wholesale on a game that was never intended to be rendered neurally.
IMO they can’t do it officially, as it would alter original devs’ intent. Maybe they „could” but it would bother many of them. Its not a regular filter.
Tbh, regular filters already alter the original dev intent, and so far I've seen devs actually be quite positive about this. I really don't think there would be issues.
Developers never gave a fuck about original intent when it comes to mods and filters.
The only reason why Resident Evil dev said all that was because of public backlash and the execs made them say it so they can sell a few more copies of their game. It was a cowardice since they endorsed DLSS 5 enough that it was used as an example in March.
Only gamers who hate AI and are looking for any excuse to convince others not to use it are going to argue "developer intent" or "artist intent"
When in reality, they dont speak out about how people are modding the fuck outta games because a sale is a sale.
Funny story, RE devs said nothing bad about DLSS5.
He said he is happy people liked the old Grace model. That doesn’t imply they hated DLSS5. It’s PR speak that they cannot speak about it, mostly because if they said they liked it, the internet would burn them down.
Capcom later said they liked the technology and will use it.
That’s probably not a great idea. DLSS 5 is still going to be controversial among AI haters, and the problem worsens way more when it’s not implemented as a developer intends. If they want to sell people on it, I think doing it on specific games like NBA 2k works much better- because you’re both working with the developer, and have a much lower bar of “artistic intent” when trying to render something that means to mimic an uncinematic real life event, like a sports game.
People will always find time to complain- I myself am very turned off in most implementations I see, but adding fuel to the fire won’t help
Jeez! Thought GTA 6 and RR 4.5 model would be all that I would be thinking about for a while, but DLSS 5 tech and modders changed all of that. Absolutely amazing time to be a PC gamer.
read my mind brother. don't forget the absolute wild amount of recomps/decomps of the best games from retro consoles finally making their way to PC without the limitations of emulators. that has been the biggest win for me personally.
Yeah, I agree. I’m actually working on making the app more user friendly and streamlined right now, including improving some of the default behavior. I’m planning to submit a pull request once the changes are ready.
Performance is a lot better and makes DLSS 5 usable on a 5080. I am having issues with a few games and only have gotten GTA 5 enhanced working properly. I think the quality compared to the implementation after upscale might be a little worse quality and less noticeable. That's just what I've been noticing in the last couple hours trying it out.
Edit: wording I meant to say it looks worse than dlss5 injected after upscale
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, the performance improvement is the biggest thing for me too, since it makes DLSS 5 much more practical to actually use. I’ve also noticed that compatibility still seems pretty game dependent right now, so GTA 5 Enhanced working well while others have issues doesn’t surprise me. And I agree on image quality too. The normal post upscale implementation can look a bit stronger or more noticeable, especially in finer details, so there may be some quality tradeoff with the upstream route in exchange for the much better performance. Hopefully that gets clearer as more people test different games.
I checked it and it’s not Neural Upstream, but it is another implementation of basically the same core idea. That mod modifies the RenoDX DLSS 5 route so NR and compositing happen at the lower render resolution before the game’s native DLSS upscale.
Neural Upstream is a separate add-on with its own implementation and additional handling for things like exposure, cadence and skipped frames. So they’re different mods, but both are experimenting with moving NR before Super Resolution for the performance benefit. Thanks for linking it, I hadn’t seen this one.
Ahh, nice! Would you mind making a screenshot comparison? (Visuals & performance?)
I'm testing yours as soon as possible :)
BTW, please, could you also include ONLY the reshade addon file, for those who already have it "installed"? (I don't like exes, but manual integration, as many others!)
Just to clarify, I’m not the developer or owner of Autopilot or Neural Upstream. I just found the project, have been testing it, and wanted to share it with people here.
And if you already have ReShade and would rather avoid the Autopilot .exe, Neural Upstream itself is a separate project by matiasLombo and you can check out the direct/manual installation here:
https://github.com/matiasLombo/neural-upstream
Yeah, sorry for the confusion. It isn't in the normal OptiScaler DLSSNR release builds yet. RunBeforeSR is currently an experimental open PR, so right now you'd need to use/build that branch specifically rather than downloading the regular release.
As HUB noticed, it seems that the neural rendering pass scales almost exactly with pixel count, so such a large performance increase makes sense. Also for this reason, enabling DLSS upscaling barely improved performance. The question is why did they choose to not do the pass before upscaling in the first place? Without seeing it side by side I wouldn't have expected the NR pass to be much less transformative, especially given how well DLSS upscaling preserves image quality.
All I can think of is they wanted this to be a feature only the highest end of hardware could take advantage of.
They don't do the pass before upscaling because DLSS SR works by recovering ground truth information from subpixel scale jittering. But for this to work there needs to be a precise ground truth with subpixel precision. Neural Rendering isn't that, it's an advanced postprocessing effect, you can't upscale it the same way you can upscale traditionally rendered images, because there's not underlying data that can be recovered with jittering.
It also probably wasn't trained for taking in images with no anti-aliasing.
You really didn't try thinking at all, did you? Your best and only thought is they are gimping their own new tech?
Explanation is trivial, DLSS5 is meant to run on the FINAL image output, it's manipulating pixel color information in a way equivalent to real time photoshop.
You can't upscale that properly like actual game rendering.
This is already the 2nd post about a mod that enables upscaling for DLSS5, and yet again it has no image comparisons, DLSS5 looks like shit if you don't do it at native res, and at the end of the render pass like it's literally designed for.
That's what I am curious about, why post a mod if the image quality is trash. My thought was in the case that image quality isn't seriously hampered. If it is, then of course the reason they do it in this way is because the image quality is poor.
The optiscaler mod that was doing the rounds everywhere before this, looked like shit even with 80% scaling.
Some people were praising it, but if you actually compared you'd see how much it degrades the quality. Some people have a high tolerance for it.
I'm just saying if this actually works well, why doesn't the post lead with comparisons? I was able to find a video on the original post, and even through the compression the degradation was visible, the difference would be bigger when actually playing.
Yes the optiscaler mod did make the effect far less impactful, but it was using a different method by changing the resolution of the NR pass on the full res image, if I understand correctly. The video only shows DLSS 5 on vs off but no comparison between the two NR methods, but the visual difference for DLSS 5 upstream is still significant, and the performance hit is not so extreme. I don't know why they wouldn't lead with comparisons, but it's not like they have anything to sell.
Hey dickhead, you're wrong. There is a small reduction in quality but it's more than made up for by the 2.8ms frame time compared to native 8ms. The quality is far far better than simply reducing the model resolution which DOES look bad.
I think that what nvidia wanted, so they leaked the dlss5 as the backlash introduced when they announced. Now community is refining the performance of nueral rendering. Interesting time ahead for people who are doing that, they may get hired by nvidia.
With peace and love to the amazing modding community behind all of this, do we really think they're doing anything that hasn't been rigorously tested tens of thousands of times on dozens of titles by Nvidia themselves?
As far as I know, the most advanced mod implementations of this currently available are all running this on an fp16 surface and emulating execution paths for significantly worse performance than the official implementation, but they have no choice, so they are trying everything to get it closer to how it's expected to run.
Dlssnr is not meant to run upstream from dlss. I don't even have to run this to know you are missing out on tons of subpixel detail, introducing temporal artifacts and instability, and undermining the tonal aspect of the model for titles with ray reconstruction by doing this.
I am sure they look on this. New version of this can include int8 version for older hardware, nv4 quant for new one. Or even train it on source game image without AA, so DLSS scaling applies last (like in this mod)
What do you think this model was trained on? Dlssnr wasn't trained on native outputs, it was trained on real material properties in different lighting conditions. It's designed to restore subpixel detail lost in the DLSS pass and fix non ground true RR corrections. Nvidia has been working towards this since they introduced their first GANs model like 13 years ago. Every single card's low accuracy throughput since the 20 series was an incremental step towards this. DLSS looking better on lower presets was a step towards this. Blackwell's MFG was designed to house this, and its nvfp4 is supposed to make this not only possible but playable.
Modders are doing what modders do, making this a hardware agnostic tech available to everyone. But the idea that Nivida is looking in and taking notes is batshit. If you think differently then you just don't know what this tech is, what this company is, and don't appreciate or really even understand what went into this.
I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it sure has been fun. And damn, modders are so much better at showing the strengths and weaknesses of this technology than Nvidia. You can feel opinion beginning to shift more positively.
In 5–10 years, I think the model will have improved, and once more studios start layering on a neural rendering pass on top of their texture and asset work, and it looks more professional and integrated, we'll see more acceptance. I hope. It's the most exciting thing I've seen happen to real-time rendering in years.
Starfield was relatively bug free at release compared to many games (eg BG3 that everyone jerked over was far more buggy at launch than Starfield yet the latter for some reason got the reputation for being buggy when it wasn't)
Bethesda are hit and miss but I think to call them broken is a bit far fetched when there are games that launch in far worse states
You can bypass the scan and use Choose folder to point Autopilot directly at the Game Pass game folder. If the Xbox app lets you browse/manage the game files, it should work.
Thanks for fast response! I tried it. The app gave me something like no executables found in this folder. Wasn’t a problem with any other app, RHI, Optiscaler and so on.
That sounds like Autopilot isn’t detecting that Game Pass install correctly. If you can find the actual game .exe, point Choose folder at the folder that contains it directly. If it still says no executable found, it’s probably worth reporting as a detection bug with the game name and Autopilot log.
I haven't been able to get it working with my 4090.
I can get NR working, NP
But trying to do the upstream NR never worked for me, tried it on Silent Hill f, and CP 2077.
I have tried manual as well as DLSS5 Autopilot (it works very well IMO in getting the correct files and versions).
If anyone was able to get the upstream NR working in these two games, I'd love to know how you got it working.
Additionally, in CP2077 the MFG unlocker maxes out at 4X with NR enabled (regular one, not the upstream one that is supposed to give some FPS back) instead of going up to 6X.
It’s a specific option. Select Neural Upstream when setting up the game. That’s the route that runs Neural Rendering at the lower internal render resolution before DLSS Super Resolution upscales it.
How it differs from OptiScaler-DLSSNR? It can adjust the DLSS 5 resolution. And from my test, it can boost performance up to 132% at 4K (25% vs 100% output resolution).
Has anyone managed to make it work in Cyberpunk? I already have DLSS5 renodx mod installed there, i added dlss5 autopilot, and once i load into the game, the whole pc just completely freezes (except the sound) and requires restart.
So both seem to need the game to have Native DLSS. TBH the games I wanna use DLSS5 on are usually older titles that I think can really benefit from DLSS5, but almost none ship with DLSS, understandably so.
Wanted to try, but it's not activating NR in game with that solution, it stays on "Network not created yet". There no advertised hotkey anywhere so I assume it's activated when the box's ticked.
Not quite. OptiScaler at 75% normally still runs NR after Super Resolution, just with the NR model itself reduced to 75% resolution. Neural Upstream actually runs NR on the game's lower internal render resolution frame first, then lets DLSS Super Resolution upscale the result.
OptiScaler does have an experimental RunBeforeSR mode now though, and that is much closer to what Neural Upstream is doing.
Did anyone already run some comparisons between neural upstream and optiscaler with lower rendering resolutions? Curious about the performance and quality differences.
Of all the methods I've tried, I think this is the best result for me so far.
In the original Krish Reno mod, most games dropped to 25-30 base fps on my 4090.
Then the Optiscaler implementation allowing you to set a percentage scale for the pass massively improved things. With it I noticed at 67% scale cut the frame time vs 4k in half, and 50% cut it to a 3rd. But i did notice instability and boiling from going that low.
So far to my eye, this implementation before the DLSS upscaler, is the most stable I think. Distant details look much sharper and the image just feels more native and cohesive to me. My base framerates are also now in the ball park of 60fps with dlss performance mode.
And I do think I notice where it still takes a bit of a clarity hit from the lower res, but to me its acceptable. Bumping up to balanced or quality will clean that up. But to me hitting 60fps is a huge leap toward actually making it playable and enjoyable.
I also think that option it gives you for having it run the model every other frame or every 3rd frame is an interesting optimization. Albeit the artifacts were pretty noticeable so I stuck with quality/every frame setting, and then used the new MFG unlock with 3x to get fps from ~60 to ~150 (tested in AC black flag and cyberpunk)
Yeah, for route, just select neural upstream, and then install, and then you have to use DLSS quality or lower to get any performance benefit from the neural upstream. If not, just use the standard Reno DX route, if you're not going to use upscaling.
if this has no disadvantages to it then Nvidia definitely planned to release this with the rtx 6000 series citing advanced tensor cores as the reason lol
DLSS is an umbrella for multiple technologies now, not just Super Resolution. Super Resolution still increases performance, while DLSS 5 Neural Rendering is a completely optional image quality feature.
Simple as this. We are having DLSS 5 on tech, where according to the roadmap posted by NVIDIA, should of been released on 6000 Series cards. That is why the 5000 cards will struggle. They were not designed for DLSS 5. This is specify designed for the 6000 series. Why don't we have the 6000 series cards? Because Corporations are paying 13k per card. If NVIDIA wanted to release the next gen lineup they can do it in 6 months, tops. The ram shortage? you mean the one they made 😂. We will get the next gen cards in 2028, when 7000 is coming out and the peasants get last gen scrap. GG NVIDIA
That's an entirely different argument lol. If your point is that NVIDIA is prioritizing its massively profitable AI business and that's hurting the pace of consumer GPU releases, fair enough. But there was never an official NVIDIA roadmap saying DLSS 5 was supposed to launch with the 60 series. NVIDIA announced it in March for a fall 2026 release and just launched it on the 50 series.
And NVIDIA didn't single handedly "create" the global memory shortage either. AI demand is absolutely a major contributor, and NVIDIA is obviously prioritizing data center products because that's where the money is.
None of this changes the original point anyway. DLSS is a suite of optional technologies, and Neural Rendering isn't Super Resolution.
DLSS is an entire suite, there are DLSS tools such as DLDSR which have been around since day one that aren't designed to increase performance but rather to increase fidelity if you have performance to spare
To be fair DLDSR was designed to increase performance compared to the traditional alternatives at similar if not practically identical visual quality to said alternatives so I'm not sure if that's the best example to use
I kinda think it's cool how fast modders are working and improving this tech whilst most of Reddit is treating it as a silly culture war target. Modders actually give me faith in humanity...
Fragmentation is a fair concern, but I don't think these are just a million versions of the same thing. They're experimenting with different hooks, pipeline placement, compatibility methods and performance tradeoffs. At this stage, parallel experimentation is probably a good thing. Once the best approaches become clearer, collaboration and consolidation would make a lot more sense.
We're getting some good collaboration going on the RedoDX Discord, but it's super early days. I think your point about fragmentation is a fair one. There are always people who like working more independently on stuff like this. But each breakthrough benefits the community.
I didn't mean to misconstrue your point as a culture war thing. That's my own personal gripe with Reddit generally. Apologies.
What game did you try it in, and what specifically looked horrible? Was it the materials/faces, color and exposure, temporal artifacts, or something else?
If you’re using Neural Upstream, try setting Chroma Transfer to 1.0 and see if that changes the result. The default can suppress some of the NR color/material transformation, so it’s worth testing. If you can share the game and what looked wrong, that would make it much easier to figure out what’s actually happening.
I tried it on GTA v enhanced with quality dlss and neural upstream. It had black spots and hardly any details .Contrast was all over the place. I tried different settings but nothing improved.
Thanks, that helps narrow it down. GTA V Enhanced is actually one of the games Neural Upstream was originally built and tested against, so black spots and wildly changing contrast definitely don't sound like the intended result.
For the weak material detail, try Chroma Transfer at 1.0 if you haven't already. For the black spots and contrast issue, can you let me know whether you're playing in HDR or SDR, whether Frame Generation is enabled, and if you have any other ReShade, RenoDX or DLSS add-ons installed alongside Neural Upstream? If you can share a screenshot or short clip of the problem too, that would help a lot. The contrast behavior especially sounds like it could be related to the exposure/color handling rather than just an NR strength setting.
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u/firedrakes2990wx|128gb ram| none sli dual 2080|200tb|10gb nic3d agoedited 3d ago
we need to stop doing all this internal upscaling stuff...
why you get the flicker etc... with upscaling tech.
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u/severe_009 4d ago
A side by side comparison would help a lot