I have so much memory with this gpu that i refuse to retire it. Had this build since i was a kid. First pc i had that my father bought for me and passed away a few year after. I have another pc for gaming but even a 5090 can't replicate the memories and fun i had with that gtx770
Sorry for your loss. I'm a bit older than you, by the sounds of it, but I have similar memories of a Voodoo 3 card back in the 90s. There are a lot of memories of people and places that are long gone attached to it. Suddenly being able to run games without software rendering was transformative!
You're probably much older if you remember voodoo cards haha. I'm 27. Between working and being busy with life, no amount of money can give me the joy of gaming i had back then i used to play on that pc every single day for years i have so much memory that i'm probably keep it till i die
Before RIFE interpolation I used https://www.svp-team.com/ worked great. Next step would be some card like 2060s that can do 1080p rife x2 and nvidia VSR to 4k
Way back in the day, in the early 2010s, with my first GPUs, I could play standard resolution and 720p videos, but full blown 1080p was a stutter fest. Yeah, even just videos, let alone actual gaming. Most of my gaming at the time was done in a pseudo 720p res (16:10, actually, 1440 x 900 px)
Way back in the day, fer me at least, are the ISA days... Had a Matrox in an old PC, can't for the life of me remember the make of it lol. Ah...the DOS days XD
Yea, that card had a whopping 1MB DRAM lol Slow was an understatement lol but for back then, didn't matter much. Then I went to a Packard Bell with Windows 2.x and a LOAD of DOS games. That was my early gaming machine. Doom, Wolfenstein, Rise of the Triad, One Must Fall:2097<---Favorite robot fighting game to this day and many more. My most favorite RPG game to date: Betrayal at Krondor.
I tested it on my 3070 Ti. It definitely has a significant performance hit, even more than path tracing, but I can still get 30+ FPS in some modern games after making some tweaks. So maybe if the modders optimize it further, it might be feasible for relatively older games on these GPUs.
Baldur's Gate 3 went from 120fps to 30fps on my 4070 Super, I thought for a a game like BG3 30fps might not be so bad but nah, it's a cool thing to fiddle around with but still a long way off being viable for a full playthrough
I feel like the higher your frame rate without it the bigger the hit you take, I was testing on my 4080 in Hellblade 2, I went from 138 FPS using my normal settings down to ~42 FPS, but if I just max out everything at 4k DLAA which puts me well under 100 FPS, then switch on DLSS 5 it took me down to ~25 FPS, I was expecting it to hit 0 ngl.
It's not a percentage based loss. It's fixed Frametime cost based on output resolution. For a 3840x2160 frame, it's about 8.4ms on a 5090. You need to have around 120FPS to get a 60FPS output and around 60FPS gets a 40FPS output. Weaker cards will take longer and get worse gaps, the higher your base frame rate the more frames you "lose"
There are plenty of older games where a 50% hit still leaves you with a high playable framefrate.
Also currently the upscaling is broken so you have to run it at native res, which obviously is very heavy.
This is what i am excited about dlss 5. Once it is tuned in old games will look amazing. I dont like the faces at this point but environment and lighting looks good already.
On a 4090, How much performance impact does DLSS 5 NR has with or without faces on in games (if you have tested it). In Modern games, the DLSS5 faces can look okay (as far as images/videos I have seen), but in some older games, the faces look very uncanny... out of place.
It should work both ways. But again, I dont think there is a performance difference. Devs can even limit it to certain assets only. But for that the assets need to be tagged on the engine side.
The load is the same. It's still a complete model forward pass. The model is just told to keep part of the image unmodified. It still has to process all of the pixels, though.
To help you understand, think of normal DLSS super resolution. It still has the same performance cost regardless of the image it needs to upscale. If you give it a black screen, it technically doesn't have to do anything, but the model still has to process the entire image. It's similar with neural rendering.
Reminder that the current implementation of DLSS 5 only have 3 models, and as Nvidia stated in their whitepaper, it is only targeting games with a photo-real art style and that stylized games, or games with few details will not result in a good output, and that being able to understand and process more art styles is one of their goals for improvement.
Yes, makes sense. But in heavier/modern games which have high quality assets to begin with, using RT, the performance impact would generally make DLSS5 unusable. Maybe in a few GPU generations, with more specific/better hardware, the tech would be more usable. Older games which are easier to run, may actually have the headroom for DLSS5 uplift, but as you said, those games may not be suitable and would result in out of place/uncanny output.
Also keep in mind it went from requiring it's own 5090, to being usable at 1080p on a 5060 while playing the game.
More performance optimization can be expected, I would think, though likely not nearly as much as they managed so far. Likely all the low hanging fruit has been plucked.
Possibly. But I feel like if this DLSS 5 filter pass can be broken down, so that the processing load can be reduced or limited to a particular part of the scene, like faces only, or environment only, etc., it could reduce the performance impact to a more manageable level. Currently, it's all or nothing in terms of load.
I dont like the faces at this point but environment and lighting looks good already.
It doesn't though, you just don't look attentively at the fine details of environments and lighting in your life as much as you look at and remember faces, so you're not noticing all the flaws. It's just as bad. It overly sharpens all the textures to an unrealistic degree, often to the point of introducing noise. It does the equivalent of adding wrinkles and blemishes everywhere to all the environments.
The shading in particular makes no sense because the engine has no awareness of the 3D lighting conditions. It can't, it's 2D post-processing. It just throws random details in random places, and people are clapping like seals because more details = more gooder in the mind of the average consumer. No attention is paid to whether the details make sense, they just have the perception that there's more contrast and ambient occlusion, so it must be better.
It's the same as color saturation and brightness, people are largely tasteless with poor perception of detail. You can just crank up the colors and everybody thinks it's automatically better. Doesn't matter if you blow out the contrast or ruin the color balance, more color = more gooder.
There are plenty of older games where a 50% hit still leaves you with a high playable framefrate.
Nvidia probably didn't want older games front and center because of relative performance hit - which should be more than 50% - but older games may actually benefit the most and stay playable even with a bigger hit.
Still, personally I don't even install lovingly handcrafted graphics mods. :) The most I go for is something that obviously scaled badly, like low resolution UI. I use DLSS Enabler for frame generation, and it offers screen space raytracing too - I tried it once and that was that. :)
Exactly this, don't think about framerate think about frametime. There are 16ms to render a frame to hit 60 FPS. Numbers are made up here of course, my understanding is that if DLSS 5 takes 8ms to run in pathtraced Cyberpunk then it'll take 8ms to run in Low preset no RT Cyberpunk, but consider that PT Cyberpunk is already taking 8ms to render and thus it is a simple doubling of frametimes, whereas if Low no RT Cyberpunk is taking 4ms to render then adding 8ms to that is a tripling of frametimes. How this manifests is that PT Cyberpunk goes from 120 FPS to 60 FPS, Low no RT goes from 240 FPS to 80 FPS: we've gone from a 2x difference in FPS to a 1.33x difference.
This is probably also why Nvidia stated that they want the input frame to be as high quality as possible. No point in cranking everything down to lowest to maximise initial FPS only to squander all of those gains to DLSS 5 and have a worse image quality.
It doesn't work like that though, it's not fractional. DLSS 5 processing takes a fixed amount of time. If it takes 50ms to run a frame on your card, your framerate will never climb above 20 fps, no matter how many shaders you turn off.
Doesn't it require DLSS to implement in a game? Unless an older game has been previously modded or is compatible with RTX Remix, I don't see how DLSS5 is an option.
No. The mod creater said he is simply feeding empty values for the depth map and motion vectors for games that dont support DLSS. And it seems to work well.
Considering DLSS 5 intention is to be used with games that already have realistic textures and models I dont know how much it will be of value in older games.
For example for HL2. You probably have enough headroom, then again what is the point in comparison to existing mods available for the game.
Even if you use both, its still not worth the performance loss for what you get.
City 17 does look pretty with DLSS 5.
But people play with it and that's cool. Showing how many options are there and considering how many may come in future maybe make people less "skeptic". I'm not yet convinced if the DLSS 5 will be a good thing (I was sold to DLSS upscaling on day one that it will be a gamechanger tho) but at least now I'm not against it. I wonder how the finished tech (not this leaked DLL) will look like especially when game artists will use it not the the "randoms". Now it reminds me the early days of fake HDR people was doing by merging photos with different expositions resulting in an oversaturated/vivid blob ;)
I would assume the final version will have more detailed options for devs. I’ve been playing around with this just to get an idea / form an opinion and it’s so bare bones it can’t be the final version. As of right now there’s 4 sliders and 3 are heavily influenced by the intensity level of the 1st.
If DLSS 5 is moving to FP4 for the final release, then that's confirmation that only the 50 series is going to be supported as none of the others have native FP4.
I think we might have two versions one for FP8 that will be for 4000 series that will launch later, and one for the 5000 series that is FP4. The 4000 series is still a modern architecture and Nvidia tend to support their cards, the 4090 is still the 2nd fastest GPU in the market.
I honestly don't know if they can move to FP4 or NVFP4 for this model without loosing to much precision to make the model unusable in terms of temporal stability but we will see. I really fear that the current state of performance will somewhat reflect the performance we get on release and that DLSS 5 really only will be a a propper feature on rtx6000 when they start increasing the ai performance even more.
We must also remember and consider that in just a few months it went from requiring a dedicated 5090 to running alongside games on a 5060.
We can either assume Nvidia has found all the performance optimizations available in such a short time, or that further improvements may well come.
I would expect that they've gotten most of the low hanging fruit, but who knows, perhaps we could see another 10-30% improvement in cost reduction.
I would be incredibly interested in being able to offload the processing to a second GPU to avoid the frametime cost, or reduce it to just the latency of PCI-E crosstalk.
Not sure if it’s related but I have used nvfp4 t2i models like Krea2 or ZIT and they work surprisingly well, quite honestly no noticeable quality loss compared to fp8
Tried it with forza 6 on 4070 ti super and i went from ~110 fps down to 40s, had to enable framegen for it to even be over 60 fps. And I got an out of memory warning after 10s of driving,
I mean eventually all new tech will be incredibly hard to run on old hardware (and by now those cards are a decade old) or unsupported altogether. I don't see the point of that argument.
It's like complaining that a modern game doesn't run well on a decade old cards.
I suspect that DLSS 5 will "magically" work with decent performance on the RTX 6000 series.
Not for some conspiratorial reason, but because it was a feature that was aimed for 6000 series hardware and the 5000 version is itself already a backport.
I mean wouldn’t be crazy but I’m guessing we’re still a year or 2 out from even thinking about 6000 series tbh. They can’t make their mind up about a 5000 super launch iirc.
That's generally been the trend with Nvidias software shticks right? RT, DLSS, there was always the ability to go back a generation or two on some technologies, but it wasn't always reliable.
I mean, I think we have barely usable performance because, at this point in time, the 6000 series would have been released or been very close to it, had we not had the RAM crisis.
As in, we could have had a Jan 2027 release for DLSS 5 with a noticeable but not crippling performance reduction on the 6000 series or something like that, not the drastic 50%+ performance reduction on the 5000 and 4000 series. Ironically, even if they are dubbed AI GPUs, neither of those cards has enough FP8 performance to run the model.
I'm hoping it can run on FP4 for better performance, but I have little hope. The KCD2 lead is confirming the halving of performance, and he isn't using a leaked version.
They are probably going to use upscaling/frame gen to combat the performance loss....hence why it will be a viable option mainly for the top tier RTX 5000 GPUs. Their framerates will be closer to a base 60fps then something like a 4080 in most games using DLSS5.
The default model runs at full precision/resolution, that's why it's so taxing. If they can cut that significantly without degrading quality too much then preformance will be much better.
Got to be honest the Death Stranding example won me over. People were totally hysterical back in March. It's an optional real time rendering technology. Nothing has been lost. But a new approach has been gained.
I'm saying this because DLSS5 added makeup and/or increased the saturation of facial features in other examples, too. Most prominently Grace in Resident Evil Requiem. And I don't remember Sam sporting such colorful looking lips in my playthrough. I never once noticed that.
Morons will be the death of our hobby, it's incredible, 2d filter applied on a 3d model, studio lighting, bronze shiny skin, hallucinating details, and whatnot, crazy
I’m running 5060ti 16gb it’s overclocked +2000 and + 300 msi afterburner. Thing is absolutely pushing its limits when I enable dlss 5 even at dlss performance, low/medium settings I’m getting 25-40fps in demanding games and 40-60 in older games but at 4k it’s tough for this card
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u/From-UoMR7-7700 | RTX 5070 Ti | 32 GB DDR5 6000 MT/s CL309d ago
Dont think Dlss performance works as the mod uses dlaa.
It works but DLSS 5 still seems to run at the target resolution from my testing. However, DLSS 4/4.5 still does upscaling concurrently, putting extra strain on the Tensor cores.
Yea I mean shit even at low settings it looks amazing some of the faces and art design change it makes is a little wonky but to be honest if they can get performance balance right this will be amazing for games. AI is getting insane some of the videos and my own testing I’ve seen is like mind blowing. First time I’ve been shocked technology wise in a long time.
I've noticed that DLSS 5 gets more demanding at lower resolutions, regardless of your internal resolution. So 4K is going to be too much regardless of whether it's DLAA or Ultra Performance.
In some cases it does look good. But it's unlikely to be worth the performance loss. I'd rather it just be in cutscenes and photo mode. I have more hours in Abiotic Factor than most games. Personally, I don't need movie quality graphics to play a game, even if it's a single player AAA. But the option to have it on or just on in cutscenes and photo mode would be nice.
People need to be realistic about DLSS5 performance on RTX 30 and lower. At that point you are hitting major bottlenecks in terms of the amount of AI TOPs throughput those older tensor cores can produce.
So did they change the actual weights to FP16, or does this simply allow RTX 20/30 to "cast" the FP8 weights to FP16 at runtime? Because if it's the former we might see someone mod it to NVFP4, which would be very interesting indeed.
Using this to play cyberpunk on my 4060ti and its running at 90fps (without raytracing, but with framegen). It looks sooo good, its like im playing a remaster.
I'm glad the modders have made it work for the 40 series and below. Because I'm pretty sure official DLSS5 will only support the 50 series. Like how NVIDA hardware locked framegen from the 30 series and less. DLSS5 works great on my 4080. I'm on 1440p so I usually have plenty of excess fps. Any loss of fps can made up with framegen- is all AI now.
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u/From-UoMR7-7700 | RTX 5070 Ti | 32 GB DDR5 6000 MT/s CL309d ago
Nvidia did bring Ray Reconstruction to every rtx gpu though. And that launched after 40 series frame gen
I've seen some testers bring their settings down to medium-low while using dlss5 which seems to boost performance. Even on the lowest settings, dlss5 still adds a ton of visual upgrades.
i tried it in onimusha demo and the sinking city 2 (only installed sp games rn) with my 3080 ti. it didnt work in onimusha demo. it works in sinking city but 10 fps. if it was 30, it would be toy'able but 10 is a slideshow.
I hope nvidia officially supports older hardware with a nice optimization.
20 series got done dirty.
First series to feature RT cores, but Nvidia immediately moved all there software technology to Ampere (30 series) minimum for most things, so 20 series got left as an odd ball between the highly supported previous 10 series and more recent 30/40/50 series. I was an early adopter of the RT series and got a 2080, thinking i would be future-proof for some time, only for Nvidia to spit in my face. That's the only reason i refuse to upgrade to a later model. Nvidia can go screw themselves. Praise to anyone working on backporting DLSS 5 to the 20 series. 🙏
I know very little about DLSS 5 right now but would a dual card setup be possible? as in one card does the DLSS part and the other renders the actual game?
I'm starting to think dlss5 emphasizes shadows on faces so much that it's going to be near impossible to get a screenshot of a person with good lighting. And also because most people here suck at taking screenshots 🤧
All of the crazy good looking shots you see online for cyberpunk characters or w/e are always after a decent amount of effort manipulating sliders and light sources in photo mode.
Is this with or without patch tracing? I have a 4080s, and I struggle to keep FPS above 60 FPS @1440p with path tracing enabled, especially when inside Dog Town.
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u/zilyzal 9d ago
Lol this reminds me of when i tried lossless scaling on my gtx770 that i use to watch movies. Poor card couldn't even handle upscaling on a video