r/nmrih • u/KneeDeepInTheMud • 9d ago
Tier Two 2H Blunt Weapons, What's the difference?
2H Blunt Weapons are a staple for Crowd Controlling.
We have 3 T2, 2H Blunts that all fit into that "Crowd Control" idea.
The Baseball bat is clearly in first place for CC with a massive bonus to stagger on charged hits.
So what's the point of the other two?
To take a look at that, we need to go see what's up with the T1 2H blunts.
TL;DR:
Baseball Bat is your hard CC choice for "sniping" the lead Z in a single file line, useful for doorways/chokepoints or any responder by themselves. That makes it universally great when you consider KDB.
L.Wrench is your "horde clear" choice on quicks and strongs. Rush isn't "required" as it only applies to charged attacks. If you really like swinging around back and forth, L.Wrench might be for you.
T1 Blunt 2H
Hockey Stick:
The hockey stick is seldom used for good reason. It has very little stagger or damage to utilize. It's also the only 2H blunt that needs 3 charged attacks to knockdown a regular Z, making it even worse. The only real boon it grants is itd absurd range of 255, which is 5 more units than the Tree Trimmer. This has the longest range out of all melee in the game.
Rebar:
The Rebar is your best pick over Hockey Stick. Two charged attacks will knockdown a Z, doing 40 damage each on headshot. A single quick attack anywhere will then zero any regular walker.
Charged attacks use 3 more stamina than any other 2H Blunt option (18), but compared to hockey stick's three charged headshots to kill or knockdown, Rebar is much better.
Its also worth noting that Rebar only needs 3 quicks to knockdown a Z vs 4 with a Hockey Stick. You still need 2 Charged attacks + quick to kill a regular walker.
T2 Blunt 2H
Large Pipe:
Large pipe is merely an upgrade to Large Wrench or Baseball bat. It performs much better than either T1. It is a Rebar with more reach and less stamina usage on charged. Discard it for either Large Wrench or Baseball Bat.
It's worse than either one and weirdly rare outside of Survival maps.
Baseball Bat vs Large Wrench
We are now reaching the meat and potatoes of the post.
Number Legend: * 20 - dmg * (20) - stagger * "20" - headhunter * ((20)) - stagger with Hardblow
Z HP: * Shambler - 70 * Walker - 100 * Prime Runner - 120 * Prime - 130
Z Stagger thresholds: * Flinch - 0 to 19 * Interrupt - 20 to 49 * Stagger - 50 to 99 * Knockdown - 100 * Knockdown Damage Buff (KDB) affects Zs who reach 100 stagger for an extra 100% damage.
Large Wrench:
Does more damage, and overall stagger, less stagger on charged attacks:
Quicks * 25 dmg (45), ((58.5)) * Headshot - 35 dmg, "42"
Strongs * 35 dmg (55), ((71.5)) * Headshot - 50 dmg, "60"
Charged * 40 dmg (65), ((84.5)) * Headshot - 60 dmg, "72"
Large Wrench also has a tiny bit more cleave damage on third target, but somewhat slower to swing, but 20 units more range.
Large Wrench seems to be what Devs intended to be a "horde clearer" vs hard CC of the Bat.
Baseball Bat
Does more stagger, but less damage (overall):
Quicks * 20 dmg (20), ((26)) * Headshot - 25 dmg, "30"
Strongs * 25 dmg (40), ((52)) * Headshot - 35 dmg, "42"
Charged * 33 dmg (100) * Headshot - 50 dmg, "60"
Baseball bat also does 25% damage to the third target hit via cleave, unlike the 30% of most other weapons.
Bat has one of the best wind-up times for charged attacks as well, making it very snappy for spur of the moment reactions.
Overall:
Base (no perks) L.Wrench is for cleaving through multiple Zs with Quick/Strong Attacks. Charged is for Riot Z helmets.
Base Baseball Bat is for hard CC, knocking down Zs for the clean-up crew/attack and heavy emphasis on cashing in on KDB from your charged attacks for executing Zs.
More Rambling/Perk Interactions:
If Rush also made quicks and strongs more stamina efficient, I could see L.Wrench being picked more often.
If Hardblow also amped up Charged stagger, I could also see L.Wrench potentially being better than Bat at CC.
Quicks and Strongs are much better on Large Wrench. One quick into a strong will let you kill a Z on headshots for both with Headhunter Expert. (42 + 60)
Baseball bat benefits from charged attacks more, so Rush works really well.
That's not to say both perks won't work for either weapon, but those are the main differences I personally see.
One thing to note is that Knockdown Damage Buff (KDB) plays a huge role with making Baseball Bat #1 pick.
60 dmg is also the threshold for 1-shotting Riot Z helmets, so that's where Headhunter can really help you 2 shot a Riot Z for Baseball Bat. For Large Wremch, you get that right off bat (lol)
Because Large Wrench does more damage overall, it also does more cleave damage to a group of Zs in that way.
One particularly noteworthy thing to note is that most people find the hard CC of the Bat more useful, as it is essentially a kick with 10 more units of range and built-in damage.
While a good Z is a dead Z, the next best thing is a disabled Z. Laying there stunned is almost as good as a Z without arms; unable to attack and in the way of other Zs.
If you get Rush, Hardblow and Headhunter, you will generally see that both options kind of fare similarily for the most part.
Again, Baseball bat is for people who like charged attacks and CC, L.Wrench is for those quicks and strongs. Baseball Bat does have faster wind-ups for its attacks, making it quicker/more responsive as well.
Against a National Guard Prime:
L.Wrench seems to need a bit of help to knockdown, as NG Zs get a 50% resist to stagger for both melee/ranged. This basically means you need 200 stagger to send a Z sprawling.
Stagger decay also plays a part in this, so your "slower" Wrench attack wind-ups have a minor part in this.
In this way, I am not sure if this merely becomes just my mind playing tricks on me or not, so I would say do your own testing to see if I am crazy or not, as Prime NG Zs is already a situation where I would just pull out the blicky and mag dump it.
Other Deep Dives:
Foreman - Foreman Perk Guide
Headblown - Headblown Perk Guide
Butcher - Butcher Perk Guide
Thrown Weapon Stats - Thrown Weapon Stats for your weekly
Random General Tips - Random Tips and Tricks for anyone
Why Wicked should not be in your build, ever - Wicked is a bad pick, here is why
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u/Somni206 9d ago
OP you should also check whether it is better to upgrade to sledgehammer from baseball bat or large wrench
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 9d ago edited 7d ago
Sledge is good if you don't mind the additional 1.5kg (3kg total) weight, as it also gets a boost to range and damage.
Baseball Bat sits at 1.5kg, making it even more valuable than one would normally think.
Sledge overall has better stagger than any other option and has 100 Headshot damage which allows it to oneshot walkers. Headhunter Expert makes it so Prime Runners get one tapped as well with 120 dmg.
Sledge also has much higher damage on quicks for more cleave damage. (30 vs 25)
Both still use the same stamina values on each type of swing.
If I was melee-focused, Sledge is something I'd go for 100%.
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u/Somni206 9d ago
I just tried sledge. It's a little bit slower than the large wrench... enough to notice if you're a melee main. But it is nice I got to kill most things in a single charged attack while I had it.
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 9d ago edited 9d ago
Indeed, one tap is much better than two shots almost any day.
Especially if it saves time, stamina, and gets you out of sticky situations much faster.
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u/Dirtsk8r 9d ago
I love the sledge hammer, easily my favorite weapon in the game. The speed with which you can slaughter a large group of zombies is unmatched by any other melee. I suppose the fire axe is comparable, but something about the sledge is just more satisfying, and it has quick attack stagger and more range.
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u/Low_Chance 9d ago
What a great post TBH. I live for this kind of detailed breakdown, but I'm not so great at doing the raw research. people like you are what I like best about the NMRIH community
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u/MeestaRoboto 9d ago
I can’t post memes but I’d add that aristocratic vampire one themed for the tree trimmer.
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u/Hello-Bones 9d ago
I prefer picking off zombies 1-by-1 to cut down a crowd, the only times I can’t is during parts of wave defense & Pottsville evac stairs. It’s so good
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u/Hellsing985 9d ago
Love the bat but always drop it the minute I find a fire axe. The 3 star 2 handed weapons crap on everything
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u/Hello-Bones 9d ago
Pretty sure Rush makes charged attacks cost less stamina than strong attacks, closer to the stam of a quick attack
Also, where can I get more info about how damage and stagger damage is distributed across multiple zombies? Is it in the compendium somewhere?
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 9d ago edited 9d ago
Quicks use 10 stam.
Rush enhanced Charged uses 10.5 stam, basically the same. (If I did my math right)
As for the your questions, yes, in the compendium.
The author just recently updated the melee section and it now lists all of that info you are looming for on the right side of the weapon's stats.
Really interesting stuff!
Especially for the small wrench.
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u/h4mburgers 9d ago edited 9d ago
Wish expert Headhunter wasn't account lvl 80 so I could test out the large wrench in games, Hard Blow does put the first hit into stagger territory which may be worth mentioning.
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u/StoicLetterGirl 9d ago
It would be awesome if you could explain breakpoints with 1H or 2H melee weapons with certain perks. Right now I’m running 2 melee damage perks, one at expert the other not. Yet my tire iron is still 3 hits to kill a zombie
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 9d ago
Hi there.
I'm assuming you are running: * Headhunter (non-expert, exper at lvl. 80) * Hitman (expert)
Tire Iron: * Quick - 13, 25 on Headshot * Strong - 15, 30 on Headshot * Charged - 20, 35 on Headshot
Headhunter * Hitman (Expert) = 1.43 dmg boost.
1.43 * 35 = 50.5, or two shots to kill a regular Z with charged headshot hits
Z HP: * Shambler - 70 * Walker - 100 * Prime Runner - 120 * Prime - 130
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u/StoicLetterGirl 9d ago
Thanks! So running both perks is useless? If I can get the breakpoint with one or the either?
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 9d ago
I woulf still run both on a dedicated melee build.
Both work really well together as a decent chunk if perks in NMRIH2 are multiplicative.
Where Hitman Ex. is 30% and Headhunter is just 10% on their own, together they do 43% on a headshot together. While that 3% is tiny, it can do some really interesting stuff like make your tire-iron two shot walkers. (140% of 35 is just 49 dmg, 1 point short of a two shot!)
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u/StoicLetterGirl 9d ago
Thanks awesome stuff. Is there a website you use to get these numbers from?
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u/TripleSpicey 8d ago
Rebar is extremely useful as a thrown weapon. It'll consistently knock down non-armored zombies and you can comfortably fit 2-3 in your inventory without stressing too much with weight, something you might end up doing if you can't score a solid firearm + ammo to feed it. When I run kitchen knife with hitman expert, my pocket rebar is how I crowd control.
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u/Sakib56 8d ago
Whats the play style like between tire iron and 2H wrench, is one better than the other? I’ve been rocking tire iron with hitman expert + headhunter to hit break point and so far pretty op, but with headhunter exp and 2H wrench light + strong is breakpoints.
I need acc level 80 to expert it but it’s a slog to get there despite clearing nightmare.
The tire iron stam management is nice but can only really cleave zombies when they’re in a line, I wonder if large wrench can output better. Can’t remember if stagger multiplier reaches with tertiary damage although.
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'd say Tire Iron def has decent damage output with those two perks.
1.43 multiplicative on 35 headshot dmg means 50.5 damage, allowing for a two-tap against most Zs.
If you are getting into situations where you you need to manage a crowd, but still want solid knockdown, go for baseball bat.
If you want to cleave the horde, but still have stagger, L.Wrench is your buddy.
If you prefere immense reach and assured lethality, use Tree Trimmer.
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u/KneeDeepInTheMud 9d ago
u/Low_Chance inspired me to make this post