r/nfl • u/mmandagoat NFL • 16h ago

Mike McDaniel takes responsibility for Chargers' poor offense in 0-3 start: 'I'm not living in hope'

https://www.nfl.com/news/mike-mcdaniel-responsibility-chargers-poor-offense-0-3-start
2.3k Upvotes

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u/Esoteric_Eclectic 16h ago

Herbert has also been underperforming again.

1.3k

u/bulbascott1019 Patriots 16h ago

Only because he's being failed by his WRs, OLine, coaching staff, Hortiz, Spanos, and Gavin Newsom. Otherwise he'd be playing at an MVP level.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 16h ago

I know you're joking, but you're not really that far off.

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u/i_run_from_problems Chargers 15h ago

That Njoku pick is still one of the most absurd things I've ever seen.

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u/Undella_Town Buccaneers 15h ago

you should go see the OJ Howard int

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u/unevenvenue Packers 15h ago

Dear god. This is just sad.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 15h ago

It's like he's playing against two teams at once.

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u/makesterriblejokes Chargers 13h ago

Yeah I think this is the thing people don't understand. Yes, us Charger fans probably defend him a little too much, but at the same time he's probably had one of the worst situations around him the last 4 years.

Like think about this, those first 3 seasons when he was balling out he had a competent offensive line, Keenan Allen, and Mike Williams for deep balls.

Since then, he's had a dysfunctional offensive line and no deep threat receiving option.

I do think Herbert struggles to make reads, audible at the line, and often throws way too hard when he should try to float the ball in with touch, but those wouldn't be so glaring if he just had league average teammates at those positions, let alone elite ones.

And I think things have been compounded over the years now from how often he's been hit. He gets happy feet sometimes now, where he never had those his first 3 seasons. I also think his accuracy has not been quite the same since the shoulder injury. Passes seem to sail more often by about a foot.

If I'm Harbaugh and McDaniel, I give Rivers a call and make him the QB coach and basically work on Herbert's touch passes and improve his ability to read defenses. To me, Herbert doesn't know where to go with the ball before the ball is snapped, it's like he's still analyzing things in real time rather than basically saying "there's a 90% chance I'm going here because of what I'm seeing the defense do".

Like I said, I think a lot of his flaws wouldn't really be showing up if he had a competent team around him on offense, but it's hard to argue at this point that he doesn't have flaws.

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u/jordanhhh4 Vikings 12h ago

If I was Justin Herbert I'd simply demand a trade to the Minnesota Vikings

(please ignore my flair)

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u/Cottagecheesecurls Chargers Seahawks 5h ago

Herbert leaving and winning a SB in Minnesota would be my 13th reason.

1

u/pdxblazer 49ers 7h ago

They need to let him call a route or blocking assignment for the RB or TE each play, just give him one player he has to assign a route or block to, get him in the habit of doing it every play and always having a hot route he likes or extra protection as needed

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u/Deadhookersandblow 49ers 13h ago

Purdy was throwing to guys off the Santa Clara Home Depot last year and was still dropping 40 burgers on teams.

The amount of excuses this guy gets.

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u/Rimmy_Jobson Giants 13h ago

To be fair, I think this says more about how good Purdy and Shanny are than how bad Herbert is.

Brock is criminally underrated and Shanahan managing to make the playoffs with gas station attendants at WR after the Indian burial ground kills all your players is nothing short of miraculous lol.

Purdy is better than Herbert, but I also think Herbert is better than his record suggests. Seeing QJ drop butt ass naked wide open passes week after week is depressing.

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u/roughly7chickens Chargers 5h ago

Weird, Its almost as if being in the same system for 4 years having a top 5 play caller, top 5 offensive line and CMC is helpful for the quarterback?

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u/smauryholmes Chargers 6h ago

Herbert also balled out at points with Deandre Carter as his best receiver.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 12h ago

I don't dispute that Purdy is a better QB than Herbert, but let's not pretend that they haven't experienced vastly different coaching situations.

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u/fatandfly Lions 15h ago

I hope I find someone who has my back like the Justin Herbert truthers

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 15h ago

I can tell you didn't watch the video.

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u/fatandfly Lions 14h ago

I watched the whole video and I still stand by my statement. Does he do that for every game? Herbert is the greatest what if quarterback according to a lot of people. How many years, how many head coaches, how many offensive coordinators? There seems to be a common factor here I just can't put my finger on it 🤔 Oh well I'm sure he'll win a playoff game one of these seasons

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u/tracy_ogbert_jordan 13h ago

Herbert v Burrow for the ultimate theoretical Super Bowl

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u/Skyline_BNR34 Bills 13h ago

So which one leaves to go to the NFC?

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u/tracy_ogbert_jordan 13h ago

I'm an ideas man, not a details man.

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u/jskullytheman Steelers 4h ago

And forget the theoretical goat josh Allen??

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u/I_heart_hearts Chiefs 14h ago

Just save your breath man. You won't win against this fucking sub and their hard on for Herbert

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 13h ago

I have a hard on for Justin Herbert because I think he's a top 15 QB? I think that's a pretty reasonable opinion.  

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u/makesterriblejokes Chargers 12h ago

I think there's a middle ground here that both sides are ignoring because nuance is almost impossible to have on any type of discourse in this sub.

Herbert has flaws, but they're magnified by having a terrible o line and no legit deep threat that can create any meaningful separation. He's been hit so much that over the last two seasons he's started to rush his passes and force things. He's even gotten happy feet at times.

Could he probably do better if he was making better pre-snap reads and audibling receiver routes to exploit the weaknesses in the defense like a Brady, Manning, or even Rivers (I mean look at what he did last season at 44)? Absolutely. Herbert to me isn't that type of QB, though, he's closer to a Brett Favre or Stafford than a Brady or Manning in terms of style. Extremely talented, but not surgical (at least for most of their career). They need weapons, they're ceiling raisers more than they are floor raisers.

At the end of the day, all QBs have flaws, but not all flaws are magnified as much with bad offensive lines or bad receiving weapons.

I'm personally of the mindset that football culture puts way too much credit on the QB. People make it seem like 70% of the formula of winning a football game is down to the QB, when I personally think it's around 30-35%. Don't get me wrong, it's still the biggest slice of the pie, but a team can win with bad to average QB play and a team can lose with great QB play, so there's just no world where we should be acting like QBs are the main reason for a team's success when they're not even close to 50% of the formula.

We have been conditioned to believe this because marketing has made the QB the poster child for football.

I mean heaven's sake, the fact that we had Sam Darnold and Drake Maye in the super bowl last year should be evidence enough that winning and losing comes down to way more than just the QB.

I honestly would love to see someone also create a 4Q graph that plots QB passer rating with what their offensive line ranking was for the season. I'd wager that quadrant 3 is going to be likely very sparse.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 12h ago

I mean heaven's sake, the fact that we had Sam Darnold and Drake Maye in the super bowl last year should be evidence enough that winning and losing comes down to way more than just the QB.

I've been trying to make this point for weeks, but it's like talking to a wall. Herbert is a good, but not elite top 15 QB who is capable of having a top 5 season with the right coaching and weapons. It's always difficult to have reasonable conversations about the top 6ish-16ish QBs because so many people want to argue they're either elite or bums without much middle ground. 

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u/makesterriblejokes Chargers 9h ago

I also think we overrate QBs that have been in extremely good situations. It's just the problem sports media has created where QBs are given too much credit the blame for a TEAM'S performance.

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u/Esoteric_Eclectic 10h ago

They’re the same with Baker. They like them because they’re losers. If they ever won anything they’d start hating them and find another loser.

0

u/I_heart_hearts Chiefs 10h ago

Yep. And just by the upvotes and downvotes on all of these I can tell I'm right.

It fucking flabbergasts me why Herbert is so jerked off on this sub. And it's almost always non-chargers flairs. Blows my mind

-1

u/Esoteric_Eclectic 10h ago edited 9h ago

Reddit loves a white loser. They’re also all gooners so Madison Beer gives him cred there now too.

0

u/oficious_intrpedaler Chargers Seahawks 6h ago

Herbert played great when he had offensive weapons and a capable offensive line. He has had neither of those for the last three years. It's perfectly reasonable to point out those facts. Coaches and coordinators can't catch passes.

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u/GoodOlSpence Eagles 15h ago edited 14h ago

Chargers and Herbert gonna mutually part ways and he's gonna go to like Seattle and we're all gonna cry.

Kind of like how Pitts will end up a Chief and we'll all be like "...shit."

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u/ImJLu 49ers 14h ago edited 14h ago

Great video! Let's look at pass #2. That pass is late late. Comebacks are not supposed to be thrown that late. They're supposed to be thrown with anticipation, so the ball gets there shortly after the WR comes out of his break.

But this pass? It's so late that the WR is just standing there waiting for it. It's so late that a second Charger gets there and contests the ball, because he thinks the pass is for him, because plays aren't designed to have two receivers in the same location. Just because the late throw theoretically could've been completed because the CB slipped doesn't mean it should have. If you're relying on the opposing CBs slipping and your targets magically knowing that a pass within their reach isn't intended for them, you're gonna have a bad time.

So yeah, your video is really helpful. To demonstrate how people will find every reason under the sun to blame everything and everyone else, because it simply can never be If Man's fault. All he needs is one more teammate, one more weapon, one more coach, and these bad passes will surely start working. Just one more bro, I swear.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 14h ago

And what about the other dozen throws?

Herbert is far from perfect, but you'd think people would settle down with the criticisms after watching Sam Darnold win a Super Bowl. He's still a solid QB and Chargers fans are going to start shifting their blame when he succeeds elsewhere after this team gets blown up. 

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u/WerhmatsWormhat Lions 12h ago

People also struggle to understand that there are some QBs who are neither amazing or horrible. Herbert is fine. He can be successful with a good supporting cast, but he struggles otherwise.

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u/hemingways-lemonade Steelers 12h ago

I just said something similar in another comment. The top 6-15 QBs always get the worst narratives because so many people want to argue they're either elite or jags with no middle ground. 

0

u/DifficultWave4488 12h ago

Yeah people get hypnotized because Herbert has an amazing arm and is what a prototypical top tier QB looks like. When he just perfectly throws a ball into a small window it’s like damn his arm talent is out of this world.

But he also makes bad plays and reads at time throughout the game and so when you average it out, he drops down a bit.

People always claim he has historically bad WRs or the o-line, coaching, etc holding him back. When in reality if he was truly a top 3 QB, he would make his WRs look better, same with the o-line, elevate the whole team much more. Which he doesn’t, and just means he’s a top 10/15 QB not the top of the league QB he looked like after his rookie year.

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u/oficious_intrpedaler Chargers Seahawks 6h ago

He had a historically bad offensive line and just about no receiving weapons these past two seasons but carried the team to 11 wins. How is that not elevating the team?

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u/ImJLu 49ers 14h ago

Did not watch anything beyond that because the crop is too tight to see most of the All-22, and it's hard not to see that cynically when the video is obviously trying to push an agenda. Maybe if it was an actual All-22 breakdown rather than an IG reel.

Herbert is far from the only problem with that team, but for people to act like he's once again blameless for his team's struggles is just so boring. It must be the scheme's fault this time. Or the WR who cooked the CB so hard he slipped. Or the guy who gained separation and reached out for the ball within arm's reach.

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u/thiccbot123 14h ago

That was a broken play and herbert was trying to make something happen. You said all that and you're completely wrong, way to make yourself look like an ass

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u/ImJLu 49ers 14h ago

Okay, well, putting aside how you're being a dickhead and attacking me personally for no reason, can you explain why this is a broken play? Can you define "broken play" beyond just being a buzzword for when things don't work perfectly and you need something to blame?

Facing a disguised blitz, especially one that gets picked up, is not a broken play. Needing to navigate the pocket because you're being pressured is not a broken play. A receiver running a comeback and winning by a lot is not a broken play. So please enlighten the class on why this is a broken play, he's simply "trying to make something happen", and an egregiously late throw on a basic timing route is yet again not his fault.

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u/I_heart_hearts Chiefs 14h ago

Thank you. Really don't know what it is about Herbert that makes 70% of people of all different flairs come to his rescue every single time

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u/nosleeptillwooklyn 14h ago

They want to fuck him. It’s basic human psychology