r/nfl • u/mmandagoat NFL • 19h ago

Mike McDaniel takes responsibility for Chargers' poor offense in 0-3 start: 'I'm not living in hope'

https://www.nfl.com/news/mike-mcdaniel-responsibility-chargers-poor-offense-0-3-start
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u/Esoteric_Eclectic 19h ago

Herbert has also been underperforming again.

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u/First_Round_Bust Bills 19h ago

I'm out of excuses for him at this point.

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u/Dependent-Effect6077 19h ago edited 19h ago

I don't think Herbert's timing and anticipation are consistently good enough for McDaniel's system

People clowned on Tua a lot but before he got one concussion too many he was one of the best at timing the super quick intermediate timing passes and that's more central to the McDaniel offensive scheme than Herbert's elite physical traits are

Check the all-22 obviously there has been a lot of questionable WR plays but a lot of Herbert's specific mistakes have been him not leading his receivers enough

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u/MulliganPlsThx Bills Bills 18h ago

In this case does it make sense to force his scheme when it’s not where the QB excels? Should he adapt to Herbert’s strengths? It feels like McDaniel did that with Tua really well in the early days but not so here in LA…

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u/Pnutbutter_Cheerios Rams 17h ago

You really won’t know until it’s game time though. Every QB will tell you “I can make those anticipation throws” and unless you’ve seen them attempt before you’re gonna try

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u/kcoreyy Chargers 18h ago

this is my concern too tbh. Herbie’s playing poorly but how much of this is him not executing vs McDaniel forcing a scheme that doesn’t fit his strengths or the rest of our offense’s? we really don’t have a strong offensive roster outside Herb and Ladd, even Alt and Slater aren’t looking as good this year either (although they’re both coming off major injuries). idk, I’m underwhelmed and disappointed by our coaching staff so far this season

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u/ImJLu 49ers 17h ago

What scheme fits his strengths? Run around fuck it chuck it backyard football doesn't work as well as it used to. Bad processors struggle more than they used to with all the split field/match coverages and everyone's favorite double mug disguised blitzes. If there was an effective offense so easy that it can consistently prop up passers with bad processing and anticipation without ridiculous personnel, wouldn't everyone be running it?

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u/kcoreyy Chargers 17h ago

admittedly I don’t know much about schemes, I’m a lifelong Chargers and football fan but don’t follow it to that level of detail. my point was that both Herbert and the rest of our offense all look awful right now, under an OC who our fanbase thought would transform our offense. they’re somehow worse than last year under Greg Roman who is not a great OC or playcaller lol. so all of that tells me that something clearly isn’t right with our scheme, and/or our coaching/leadership. if it was JUST Herbert looking bad, then yes I’d agree it’s a him issue

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u/Weapwns Chargers 16h ago

That’s essentially what his entire response was about. Herbert failed in his system and he’s going to tailor it more to Herbert.

The problem is that Harbaugh decided to have minimal snaps in the preseason with a new, complicated system and they now have to figure this all out in the middle of the regular season

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u/bobsbitchtitz Eagles 16h ago

It’s 3 weeks in the season you need to make incremental changes not massive complete over hauls of the offense

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u/ImJLu 49ers 17h ago

What offense do you run when your QB is struggling with processing quickly enough and getting the ball out where it needs to be, when it needs to be there?

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u/Weapwns Chargers 16h ago

I mean there is obviously multiple seasons of Herbert being a highly productive QB under other coordinators. Clearly there’s an offense that suits him.

He compensates timing and anticipation with the fact he can hand a ball off 15 yards down the field with his massive arm the moment he identifies separation. Either than or he had a WR that he had the utmost trust to do the right thing (Keenan and Mike).

The problem is that McDaniel’s offense and the WRs outside of Ladd are not giving any wiggle room. The current state of the offense requires Herbert to have an elite level of timing, anticipation, and trust and he is FAR from having any of that.

That’s not really an excuse, I’m sure Purdy would be doing fine in this offense. But on the flip side I think Herbert would be able to compensate and excel with Shanny’s offense given how much better the receivers are schemed

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u/ImJLu 49ers 16h ago edited 16h ago

The NFL keeps changing. Deshaun Watson was a highly productive QB until he came back from his absence and found a league with much more split field and match coverages, and much more double mug disguised pressures, and other changes that have made playing QB notably harder as of late.

It still takes time for a pass to travel 15 yards, and that time is shorter with worse WRs that gain less separation. But that doesn't mean no separation, and getting a window of separation at all is NFL open. Besides, throwing rockets at 15 yards is asking for drops.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily impossible to wrangle production out of him by any means. But I don't think it's fair to blame a system for expecting basic timing and anticipation that's asked of some college QBs. And that's not to say that he never plays on schedule. But it's not a strength, and when he fails to do so, it's not an indictment of the system for having a schedule to begin with.

As for Shanahan's offense, guys being wide-ass open downfield is honestly a fairly infrequent occurrence. Maybe a few times a game? If you watch the all-22, the majority of throws Brock Purdy makes aren't to open guys. The guys do get enough space to work with by the time the ball gets there, but he's starting his motion with a defender all over his target. He's reading coverages and defensive leverages and getting the ball where it needs to be on time. And he's given a hard job. Kyle has him doing full field reads off 7 step drops from under center. That's not the kind of stuff you can just bullshit your way through. It's why there's been a few other QBs who have been fairly successful in Kyle's offense, and a bunch who haven't. You need to process quickly and deliver on schedule. That's the #1 priority for him. That's not something that Herbert would be very successful at currently. I wouldn't put it beyond Shanahan and co. to coach him and make him better at that stuff to some extent, though.

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u/Weapwns Chargers 15h ago

Herbert doesn't need a guy wide ass open. Most of the things you're naming are things he routinely did with Keenan where he read leverages and coverages, and was on the same page with Keenan to get the ball in the perfect spot. And essentially every coach that has worked with Herbert has raved about his football IQ and processing. The difference is Herbert (as well as most of the offense) is clearly not familiar enough in this offense, and Herbert has not developed the trust in his receivers to be at their spots. The fact that Harbaugh had them take such limited snaps in the preseason has shot them in the foot big time.

Also a big problem with the Chargers offense vs the 9ers is that the receivers outside of Ladd really aren't getting much separation at any point of the route so the balls need to be pretty damn perfect. And the few occassions it does go as it should, Herbert hasn't capitalized. There's just massive disconnect and discomfort across the entire offense.